Author Topic: Contra 4 (Read 20803 times)

Caliban · « **on:** June 20, 2007, 04:48:07 AM »

http://gonintendo.com/?p=19895

Never saw that coming, nonetheless it is awesome news, although I would have preferred a Contra for Wii but completely in 2D animated sprites and no 3D elements at all. I hope they show something about it at E3.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:17:25 AM »

I find it so dumb when companies abandon numbering sequels and then years later return to the numbering system as if all the game in between didn't exist. Logically Contra: Hard Corps is Contra IV just like Resident Evil: Code Veronica is Resident Evil 4.

Anyway I love Contra but since the 3D era began the series has been hit or miss with an emphasis on miss. Contra needs to be difficult, fast-paced and meant to be played in one sitting (but you'll never beat it the first time you play it). These days games like that are almost always f*cked up. Game design has shifted to long games with low difficulties and developers used to that style of play usually can't get visceral arcade-style games right.

I am happy it's two players though as portable games often get f*cked on that. I REALLY hope this is good. I also hope it uses sprites though I'm not holding my breath. For some reason ugly polygons = sales.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:28:31 AM »

I still remember the cheat code from the first NES game... up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, select, and start.

I was so terrible at that game in those days that I'd always die on the first level if I didn't do that cheat.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:35:02 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I find it so dumb when companies abandon numbering sequels and then years later return to the numbering system as if all the game in between didn't exist. Logically Contra: Hard Corps is Contra IV just like Resident Evil: Code Veronica is Resident Evil 4.

Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. Maybe they are afraid to make some games canonical for fear that it will be poorly received and then ruin the franchise? Maybe only the really great games that they are confident will do well are given numbers, whereas others are treated like those Star Wars Ewok adventure movies...

Nonetheless, I would totally look the other way if Nintendo made a Super Mario Bros. 4.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2007, 06:00:00 AM »

"I also hope it uses sprites though I'm not holding my breath. For some reason ugly polygons = sales."

WayForward loves sprites, just so you know... =)

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2007, 06:45:39 AM »

I bought I think Shattered Soldier for PS2 and didn't like it because it was a exercise of "how difficult can we make a short game?" It was too hard for it's own good. Sadistically hard!

Strell · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2007, 07:29:17 AM »

You'll have to draw in the Konami Code with the stylus.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2007, 08:06:56 AM »

This news pleases me greatly. They're even adding grappling hooks. It's a well known fact that grappling hooks make everything better.

Smoke39 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:43:57 PM »

Guns, grappling hooks, and co-op. What more could you ask for?

Kairon · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:19:27 PM »

/happy for WayForward

KDR_11k · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2007, 08:59:24 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Anyway I love Contra but since the 3D era began the series has been hit or miss with an emphasis on miss. Contra needs to be difficult, fast-paced and meant to be played in one sitting (but you'll never beat it the first time you play it). These days games like that are almost always f*cked up. Game design has shifted to long games with low difficulties and developers used to that style of play usually can't get visceral arcade-style games right.

I disagree that single-sitting is important for such a game and you'd be insane to require that on a handheld. Try Ninja Five-O, that has classic-style difficulty with saving between levels and a decent play length. You can make each chunk much harder (e.g. give less health/instant respawns) if you let the player retry it as often as he wants, just make the chunks a reasonable size. When I play a saveless game these days I often lose my motivation to retry (at least immediately) when I have to start over from level 1 because I already know that stuff and the parts I need to get better at are at least ten minutes away. I have Super Probotector for the VC but I didn't bother trying it anymore after encountering the two skeleton-style robots in the room with the wall that later gets destroyed to reveal a huge skeleton robot because I feel I'd need way more retries on that than I'm willing to give.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:33:32 AM »

"I have Super Probotector for the VC but I didn't bother trying it anymore after encountering the two skeleton-style robots in the room with the wall that later gets destroyed to reveal a huge skeleton robot because I feel I'd need way more retries on that than I'm willing to give."

If you're complaining about what is argueably the best Contra game then it probably isn't a good idea for Contra 4 to be designed for your tastes. It's like someone who hates Super Metroid suggesting how the next Metroid should play. My brothers and I got smoked at that part too but now beat that game pretty much every time we play. Like the developers that often screw up games like this you're too used to modern game design. You're not used to continues and lives actually meaning something. I don't mean this in an insulting way. Years of gaming being a certain way is going to condition us to prefer certain ideas. Retries takes time and I personally have given up in some games because as a working adult I just don't have that time anymore. But for any Contra game to really work it needs to be designed like that. I have no problem with offering a quick save (which is really an extended pause) because of it being on a portable. But this modern idea where after you get game over you immediately go back to the most recent level of your save isn't going to fly. People will complain the game is too short because arcade-style games are short. Most of them last at most two hours and in an era of 30+ hours being the norm that seems like a waste of money. Having to restart from the beginning and having to develop skills to overcome a challenge are how these games provide a decent length experience.

Every day you play the game for half an hour until you're good enough to beat it. Hell this fits right along other DS titles like Brain Age and Animal Crossing. It's like a non-gamer level of commitment but with hardcore gamer level of challenge.

The ability to make the player want to start over again does rely on good game design. I have played several games where after getting game over I just said "f*ck it" and stopped playing. But with well designed games like Ikaruga I don't get the feeling and I get better at the game each time I play.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:03:10 PM »

I'm talking about motivation, when I have to repeat an area I have beaten before (especially if it's really not difficult to do so) I get bored because, well, I'm redoing stuff for no reason. What reason is there for me to redo the whole game just for one interesting part that's at least 10 minutes in? That's wasting more time than MMORPGs. I can handle repetition a few times but with difficult games you'll do it over and over again.

Ninja Five-O wasn't too short. Well, yes, it was since you don't have enough ninja action after finishing it but that's more because it's good rather than quick to finish. An area that takes 10 tries with restarting from the beginning is more annoying than an area that takes 50 tries with each starting right at the area. Of course I would have put up with starting over back then but that's because game design has improved since back then. As I said, I don't mind difficulty but I mind unnecessary punishments for the player because those kill my motivation dead. Try playing Bunny Must Die, the bosses are really F###ING hard but you get a savepoint before them so you can focus on mastering the fight itself rather than replaying areas you can already beat blindfolded.

Infernal Monkey · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2007, 04:32:36 AM »

(Had to blow it up from its original piss small size)
LOOKIN' GOOD

Ian Sane · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:44:37 AM »

Is that a legit screen? Is so then F*CK YEAH!!

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2007, 06:19:39 AM »

Is it just me, or are there four player characters in that shot? The press release says two players, so I'm curious. Are they simply enemies? Are they computer controlled allies? Do they follow the players around, Diddy Kong style?

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:11:16 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
Is it just me, or are there four player characters in that shot? The press release says two players, so I'm curious. Are they simply enemies? Are they computer controlled allies? Do they follow the players around, Diddy Kong style?

I was gonna ask the same thing, but what if they are like temporary weapon upgrades?
You pick up an item that is "rocketlauncher support" and some guy with a rocket launcher follows you around shooting rockets for about 30 seconds.

vudu · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:14:33 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I have Super Probotector for the VC but I didn't bother trying it anymore after encountering the two skeleton-style robots in the room with the wall that later gets destroyed to reveal a huge skeleton robot because I feel I'd need way more retries on that than I'm willing to give.

That's actually the easiest boss in the entire game if you have the homing missile (which you can get just a couple minutes before the boss). For the first part with two robots just grab onto the ceiling and keep moving back and forth to confuse the robot who jumps up there with you. When he jumps, get down on the floor to avoid him until he lets go. The other robot doesn't pose much of a threat unless you get cornered for some reason. All the while you should be unleashing on them with your homing missiles. They'll go down pretty quickly.

When the big robot comes out from the wall and starts shooting those beams that circle the room go around the room clockwise a couple times. Make sure to drop off the ceiling when you're just to the right of the robot in order to save time. Assuming you still have your homing missiles start unleashing on him at the beginning and stop every couple of seconds when hanging in order to get a few shots in. If you don't have your homing missiles, shoot him in the head any time you're either directly above him or below him. Be sure to use all your bombs for every life you need (because they reset back to 2 every time you die).

Infernal Monkey · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2007, 04:14:22 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Is that a legit screen? Is so then F*CK YEAH!!

Yep! Grabbed it from Nintendo Power's website preview of their magazine article. =) There are others, but waaay too small to even try and blow up.

(Also yeah, it's four player co-op! Not online though)

Smoke39 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2007, 11:31:25 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
(Also yeah, it's four player co-op! Not online though)

No 4-player co-op online, or no online period? If the latter, then interest *= 0;

Infernal Monkey · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2007, 11:39:50 PM »

I dunno, there might be some online snapping turtle boss porn to download for the backgrounds of each level or something. =o

Smoke39 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2007, 12:03:10 AM »

That doesn't count. ):<

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2007, 01:34:30 PM »

.......who the F' does WayForward think they are.....making a Contra game right

Ian Sane · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2007, 05:30:39 AM »

"Also yeah, it's four player co-op!"

Okay, that's it. Nintendo just sold my brother a DS. He has always wanted a four player Contra. That's his dream game. Now I and our other brother each have a DS but he doesn't so for all three of us to play he now needs to get one.

Stimutacs Addict · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2007, 04:42:51 AM »

f-f-four.. pplayer,, CONTRA?>!

ogod ogod ogodo

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Author Topic: Contra 4 (Read 20803 times)