Topic: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day

[KDR_11k]

Huh? I thought Project Sylpheed was published by Square-Enix.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Huh? I thought Project Sylpheed was published by Square-Enix.

Project Sylpheed actually co-published by Microsoft and Square-Enix and so is Infinite Undiscovery(Microsoft funded the game but gave it to square-enix to ensure game sales in Japan and it worked).

[Ian Sane]

Ah whatever, just let the publishers who refuse to acknowledge the Wii and heap bigger and bigger budgets on HD games that turn out to be B-level at best go out of business.

What does that leave us with then?  Nintendo and a bunch of a third parties who just release shovelware junk?  I think it would better for gaming if these publishers smartened up and supported the Wii.  Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.

[Chozo Ghost]

Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.

In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.

[EasyCure]

Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.

In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.

This. Ian acts like those stupid devs/publishers going under means no one will be there to pick up where they left off and be smart enough to invest in the system thats making money right now. You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.

[Kairon]

Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.

In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.

This. Ian acts like those stupid devs/publishers going under means no one will be there to pick up where they left off and be smart enough to invest in the system thats making money right now. You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.

This. New companies will grow to fill the newly-empty ecological niches. There'll be a wave of new blood and a wave of new ideas and approaches. Just because Dinosaurs died out doesn't mean that life as we know it ends. It just becomes more exciting.

[Stogi]

I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small. They can't afford to compete against bigger development companies, and thus are crushed. Unless....unless they take advantage of things such as Wiiware or make small niche titles that make them enough money to stay afloat.

The videogame industry is a harsh business. Catering to the hardcore is a terrible idea. Why? Because we are so damn fickle. Sure we think we know what we want, but we don't know. It's best to focus on niches. Find your niche. The only reason Nintendo focuses on us is because of our loyalty. We will stick around if we get fed. That's it. They try to please us and to turn more people into us, and that's their goal. However, other companies can't afford to take that risk and compete on Nintendo's turf.

Now while I understand that, I really wish someone would. But the fact that you have to have a similar genius to even attract the Nintendo hardcore is very intimidating.

[Kairon]

I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small. They can't afford to compete against bigger development companies, and thus are crushed. Unless....unless they take advantage of things such as Wiiware or make small niche titles that make them enough money to stay afloat.

The videogame industry is a harsh business. Catering to the hardcore is a terrible idea. Why? Because we are so damn fickle. Sure we think we know what we want, but we don't know. It's best to focus on niches. Find your niche. The only reason Nintendo focuses on us is because of our loyalty. We will stick around if we get fed. That's it. They try to please us and to turn more people into us, and that's their goal. However, other companies can't afford to take that risk and compete on Nintendo's turf.

Now while I understand that, I really wish someone would. But the fact that you have to have a similar genius to even attract the Nintendo hardcore is very intimidating.

Well, I was thinking that if the traditional large companies fade into the background, then those small companies would grow and increase in size to fill that empty niche.

I also don't agree that it's a bad idea to play to the hardcore. I think it's actually interesting that you argue that Nintendo is serving their hardcore, and I agree with this actually, though it's a minority opinion. But it's a bad idea to let that audience's fervor get to your head. Hardcore gamers can distort reality to make it seem as if they're the center of the universe, and it's rare to find a company like Atlus who doesn't get drunk on that sort of perception and can remain humble and sensible, or a company like Nintendo with the gall to simply pursue their own course regardless of our clamorings.

Also, you make it sound like the Nintendo hardcore are too demanding, as if Nintendo's ruined us for every other developer out there. If so... WE'RE the problem. *scared* Let's all go out and buy more third party games...

[Ian Sane]

You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.

What if the non-gamer market is strong enough that core gamers abandoning ship is of no real concern?  The big fear is that with Nintendo making so much money from non-gamers that core gaming becomes so niche that it just isn't anyone's focus anymore.  I don't want the Wii to thrive as is.  I want it to get better.  Third parties jumping ship would improve the Wii, third parties dying as they support the competition does not.  I don't want it where the only companies that survived were the ones that focused on non-gamers because I really doubt an industry consisting entirely of companies like that is suddenly going to get all core gamer friendly.

The concern is why will Nintendo continue to target core gamers when non-gamers greatly outnumber them and non-games are cheaper and easier to make.  Expand that to the entire industry?  F*ck.  I think it's much better for gaming if those companies just bring their core games to the Wii and make the Wii a great console for ALL demographics.

[Kairon]

I don't want the Wii to thrive as is.  I want it to get better.  Third parties jumping ship would improve the Wii, third parties dying as they support the competition does not.
...
I think it's much better for gaming if those companies just bring their core games to the Wii and make the Wii a great console for ALL demographics.

These parts of your post, Ian, I think everyone will agree with. I'm beginning to think that it just comes down to third-parties failing us.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Capcom is bringing a core game called Bread Rising to Wii next month.

Will Ian buy that?

[EasyCure]

That breads a few years old, i'm sure its stale by now

[Stogi]

You speak as if you have balls, but your lack of conviction is deterring....

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Easycure eats bacteria-consumed bread, confirmed.

[Chozo Ghost]

I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small.

Weren't mammals small at the time when the Dinosaurs went extinct? But it didn't take long for mammals to fill the niches that dinosaurs once held! With the big cold-blooded reptiles out of the picture, tiny rat-like creatures were free to balloon up into wholly mammoths and rhinoceroses and ground sloths and all those other giant ice age creatures.

You're right that small companies can't afford some stuff, but they aren't going to STAY small. Things change, obviously. Need I point out how we now have a new president who is so different than the old one or how Nintendo was 3rd place last gen but is now 1st place? The world gets turned upside down all the time, and the small don't always stay small, and the big ones eventually get smashed by the meteor of change.

[Stogi]

Umm.....WTF are you talking about?

Money = evolution?

[Kairon]

Money = species success

Ecological niches = market niches/demographics

Dinosaurs = large unwieldy companies ill-suited for sudden climate/market shifts

Early Mammals = small companies that survive the market shift due to their modest ambitions and requirements

Rhinoceroses, Elephants, Lions, Wolves, Whales, etc. = small companies that have grown in size to fill ecological/market niches previously occupied by dinosaurs/larger companies

Wii = "Meteor of change"

I'm just scared of what will happen when Humans come along, cuz they throw a wrench in the whole thing.

[Stogi]

Umm sorry to bust your metaphorical bubble, but that doesn't apply; no matter how cute it is.

This is business. When a "meteor" hits, people adapt, they are not blown off the face of the earth. Besides, the bigger companies publish titles made by smaller companies. What metaphor is used for that? Piglets sucking at their mother's teet?

[UltimatePartyBear]

This is business. When a "meteor" hits, people adapt, they are not blown off the face of the earth.

Except that they're not adapting, which is what prompted the metaphor in the first place.

[Stogi]

So the PS3 adding SixAxis isn't adapting? So the 360 adding avatars isn't adapting?

[UltimatePartyBear]

Not really, no, but Sony and Microsoft aren't the dinosaurs.  They're more like alligators or maybe coelacanths.

[Kairon]

This is business. When a "meteor" hits, people adapt, they are not blown off the face of the earth.

Blown off the face of the earth = bankruptcy?

Besides, the bigger companies publish titles made by smaller companies. What metaphor is used for that?

The mammals scavenging from the kills of the big dinos?

Yeah yeah, no analogy is perfect. But either way, we were just exploring the perspectives we could use to view things.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

sixaxis = faildapter
avatars = they're not in Wii Sports/Fit/Everything, and they don't have product/brand identity/recognition
It's not adapting if it isn't working =D
These items haven't made a difference, so I'd say they're not contributing to the prosperity/survival of their parent products.

PS3 and 360 attempting to adapt with niche-use products is not directly related to the idea of the publishers/devs shifting directions to produce content for a different kind of market leader.  (but if Sony says they're still leading the market, that's a different cuccoo topic altogether)

It's publishers like Sega, Majesco, and Marvelous who've shown to be directly responding to the changes in the market.

A "meteor" is too extreme of a metaphor.

Rising sea levels and disappearing land masses (BLUE OCEAN LOL) is a more gradual representation of what's going on.

[Stogi]

Forgoing the metaphors for a moment might be more beneficial. Look, I'm not trying to defend publishers, I just want to point out, as someone who will soon be in the battlefield of business, that you have to be wise with your investments. In fact, it maybe because WE want the game that it would be financial irresponsible to support it.

Really we may never know what ultimately turned them away from the project...Maybe they simply couldn't afford it?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yeah, the pubs probably had their balls stapled to the ceiling at the time cuz they were already arse-deep in HD dev costs, and simply politely turned down the non-casual-game-on-casual-system.

And it looks even LESS likely anyone can afford to invest in it now, economicky speaking.