Topic: Mafia GX: Scrapheap

[Deguello]

AHAHAHA  NOBODY GETS THE BEST OF GOROH

GUNDAM STILL SUCKS!

[Pale]

Hrmm.  God damn killer.

[Shift Key]

Quote
PM from: Pale
I knew the killer (you) would do me in.

lawl, I was the killer for all of 2 seconds. Never made a hit at all. I'll explain it all (its pretty funny for everyone else actually) once this game is through.

[Ceric]

Now that I'm dead.  I do think that limiting the Mafia investigator role to only there action night sort of gimped it.  I only got to investigate 3 people.  While even on day 8 with a good amount of people getting killed a night there is still 11 people left.

Then you couple that with the townies getting the Librarian and the Cop.  So they effectively could have (3 + # of nights) investigations.  While the best the Mafia could hope for is (1 + # of Nights/2), corrupting someone and the investigations.  I saw the reasoning but I think it's flawed with such a big group and the fact that the Mafias are individual.

Oh well.  Every Mafia plays out a little different.

[Athrun Zala]

shame, it was cool having superpowers

[Spak-Spang]

I think that Mafia actions should be limited to killing somebody that day, and/or recruiting.  

Then the Mafia investigations have an action every day.  Though, I think that perhaps the Mafia investigations should have a 50/50 chance of getting misinformation...as should the cop.  Only the Librarian gets 100% accurate information all the time.  And perhaps Mafia Doctors should be able act on their Mafia's turn even when the Townie Doctor is still alive, and then opporate freely every day once the townie Doctor is dead.

Another interesting tidbit might be to either allow the Mafia to recruit someone or hit somebody on their action, but not both.  (I dunno if it is already like that.)  Then in the story it should be shady and kinda deep throatish...but the story reveals that SOMEONE was recruited into the Mafia but the townies don't know who or which Mafia.

This would add more elements of distrust to the townies, as they would know 100% that someone that once could trust, is gone.  

Finally, I think if the Mafia (either Mafia or both) get dropped to 2 players left, they should be able to make an action each day as they are getting desperate...or one Mafia can merger with the other when only 2 players are left.  This would give the Mafias more of a chance.

As of right now, I don't see how the other Mafia can win.  There is too much stacked against them...unless they have done major recruiting.

 

[Pale]

I think the next mafia game should be only mafias, with odd people out being possible recruits.

Say you have 23 people.  You would set up 4 teams of 5 people to be mafias.  They all compete.  Voting still occurs.  The three people left out can only win the game by joining the winning mafia, and that is their choice.  The only catch to the whole thing is that they can't switch mafia's once they choose.

I dunno, just another idea I've been throwing around.

[Pale]

PS: I had a lot of fun this game.  I got a cool role that let me rally the townies.  Too bad all my plans had to change when I got recruited.  It was still cool though.

[decoyman]

(shakes fist) DEG!!! WE COULD'VE HAD IT IN THE BAG IF YOU'D JUST JOINED US!!!

I'm sad we lost you, Pale, the day after we got you. At least it was an excellent death story with awesome references. Nice job, Khush.

[Athrun Zala]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
As of right now, I don't see how the other Mafia can win.  There is too much stacked against them...unless they have done major recruiting.

all the nights are MV action nights now, so they have a pretty good chance actually.....

shame pale was recruited

[decoyman]

ALSO: see what townies make you do! They KNEW you were both on their side, and that there was a timebomb on Deg, and look what they made you do!!! Townies are the devil! Like a kindly mother hen, I took care of my buds. I would never send a friendly on a suicide mission against another friendly.

Perhaps it's more apt to call the townies the evil ones this game.

(BTW, nice avatars, Athrun, and Couchmonkey too, I forgot to say so before)

[Khushrenada]

Interesting comments. It really helps to know these things. Especially if I do another Mafia game but will judge afterwards how many people would ever want such a thing. Still, I'd like to address some of the things brought up.

Mafia Investigation. You have a valid complaint about the role and that's something I wrestled with after adding the second mafia is should there be an investigation every night. In the end, I decided not to because I wanted to keep the mafia's from discovering all the important townie roles too soon. Mainly roles like the doctor, cop, librarian, bounty hunter.With both mafias hunting these roles, they had the potential to pick them off faster. And you have to admit Ceric. For only three tries, you were able to find the blackmailer still and that was a big boost for your mafia.

Personally, I can't believe Deg went for the townie win. If he had joined the mafia, it would have been 5 men strong with ony ten other people left to kill. You get rid of the Killer and 4 other townies and it's game over. That just shocked me. Especially with Pale, the townie leader now recruited. Surely, he could fool the townies for a short while. I'm surprised Deg turned his back on the mafia. Does it mean the game is over? Not yet. Mafia 6 is the only game I won but I did it with a mafia and we faced the same odds. It was just me and the godfather. We had about 8 or 9 other people left and the killer was still on the loose also. But we managed to pull it out in the end. Unlike this game, we didn't have the ability to recruit. So, I think there's still a chance. Plus, maybe this will be the first game where the killer wins. That would be something.

Doctors. Spak made a great point. Unfortunately, in this game, the doctor ability has hardly come into play. Both mafia's have been unable to use that ability. Spak's idea that they only operate on their action nights was something I should have thought of. I just figured the doctor would have been more hunted but even the townie doctor has rarely come into play. He stopped one MaxVelocity hit but that's it. But, I definitely liked that idea and would put it into play next time. I feel sorry for the mob doctors in this game as they have been unable to really use their ability.

The librarian role. Was it overpowered or not? It's hard for me to judge at the moment. I'll want to hear Pale's retrospective when this is done to learn all the details. In this game, I let the librarian have 8 choices. We had 34 players so that's a little bit less then one quarter of the roles being given. Of course, knowing your own role makes it 9 people's identity. Of those 8 choices, 3 were mafia members, 3 were regular townies and 2 were special roles, the bounty hunter and the orginal killer. Now, that is a lot of information but I think the most valuable was knowing the special roles. Plus, you had to be careful contacting the other townies because they could be recruited and give you away or have their role changed. Plus, there is still a lot of information out there that has to be found. Although, I think I know what else happened, I'm not going to reveal that now but wait until the game is done. It justmainly involes hooking up with townies.

Still, I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it Pale. The idea came from the mafia game of yours. In that game, the mafia I was in pooled all of our knowlegde so that we knew who all else had a role and who were townies. The only thing we didn't know was who belonged to which mafia though we started deducing it pretty fast. Still, after that experience, it made me wonder what it would be like if one person playing the game knew everybody's role. Then, I realized that they would most likely blurt out all the information and it would be an easy win. So, then I had the better idea of just limiting it to knowing a select few. It's a role I would like to see hopefully carried on again in the game from time to time because I think it really is an interesting one and is probably the townies biggest advantage. One thing I was surprised about was that you got all 8 roles as soon as possible. I allowed it that one could leave choices and ask for a name at anytime in the game. That way, if the librarian survived close to endgame, he may want to use his remaining choices and see if he could locate any remaining mafia. That would be a big advantage too.

All in all, I'm pretty pleased with how things have gone this game. There are a couple things that, looking back, I might have changed. And a couple incidents of trouble. But for the most part, it's worked pretty well. From some of the suggestions Spak-Spang is making, I can't help but wonder if he should host a mafia game one of these days. But hopefully, everyone has managed to get some satisfaction out of it and at the very least, enjoyed the story. It's not easy coming up with a death for everyone. Let me tell you, I had nothing for Ceric for awhile. Maybe that's why he doesn't get mentioned much in the story but it took awhile to figure out how to kill a cab driver racing in a forest. Some deaths are hard and some write themselves.

[couchmonkey]

This game has been a little too easy for the townies, I think.  I'm not sure how the last few days will play out, but while I was still alive I felt that we were in complete control.

edit: Wait, it sounds like Pale was recruited sooner than I thought.  Things might have been trickier than I thought.  Want to talk about the game so much, must keep quiet!

[Khushrenada]

Speaking of avatars, one that always struck me as funny was Pale's. The way it was cropped his hand on the right looks like he's holding a peice of paper. I always thought it was funny. Like he was advertising he was the librarian and that's his list.

[Crimm]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I think the next mafia game should be only mafias, with odd people out being possible recruits.

I like that idea.  I think at least one of those left out should be the "non-town, non-mafia" roles that are usually in the games.  A killer, or bomber, etc.  It would make the mafias want them more.

[Spak-Spang]

I should not host until I have more games under my belt.  I am just barely beginning to understand the game.

Still after this game, I don't think I would even be able to touch the dedication you put into this game.  Both answering questions and writing stories.  You have truly made this game great.

However, I do think we should have a brainstorm before next game and iron out the rules.  

Perhaps have a thread open for two days about open suggestions with everyone.  Then have 2-3 people who have hosted a game take those ideas and form Mafia XI. That way we can perhaps perfect the game further.  Even though I died first day I loved reading the stories and watching everything unfold.

[decoyman]

The only thing I might change would be to combine the librarian and cop roles. With the separate cop and librarian roles pooling their info, they could have investigated everyone suspicious by this point in the game.

I just missed being able to use deception in my posts to appear innocent. It's my biggest weapon, and it's all for naught when someone KNOWS for certain exactly who you are. I thought I was being fairly convincing in my posts and contacts with others. The stand-off at the end of the Simpsons game was such great, tense fun, even though I ended up losing out. I don't know if that kind of situation could ever happen in this game, but we'll see.

[Khushrenada]

I don't mind Spak's suggestion but usually that's what we do when we post the sign-up thread. People will ask questions about roles and things they don't understand and it can help refine the rules abit before hand. The biggest issue I had was night actions and what order to put them in. As far as the cop and librarian go, I don't know if they should be merged. As I mentioned, there were different ways to play that role. As for the cop, I don't think he knew who the librarian was until a few days ago. I think it took awhile fro them to hook up. Plus, there were only like two people left alive on Pale's list before he died, so there could still be a lot of investigating to do yet. And I'm still not sure if the doctor has hooked up with anyone. It's funny because I thought knowing all the roles as host meant I'd know what everyone was doing but there's a lot I'm missing because of pms to people. I catch a snippet here and ther from questions I get asked but there's more going on then even I know.

[Spak-Spang]

I think the Cop roll should be different.  I think that the Cop shouldn't be able to investigate people but arrest people.

If the cop arrests a Townie that person can not be vote for 2 days.  Or for story sake until evidence comes in to clear there name.  That is the only way the Cop knows for sure if somebody is clean or not.

If the cop catches a Mafia person.  That person can't act until they are broken out of jail.  During that time the Mafia can use their action instead of making a hit to free their man or men if more than one is caught.  

All of this is done behind the scenes. Except for townie releases.  When a town is released from jail, it is public knowledge that they are innocent and a townie.

I dunno...now that I wrote that I dunno if it would actually work.  I am just trying to find away that the cop can make arrests.  They aren't killing the people or but they are pulling people out of the game instead of just investigating them.  Ok I need more brainstorming on that idea.  

Thoughts ideas?

[Athrun Zala]

I think this game, all in all, has been incredibly interesting

especially the situation I was in in the end XD

[Ceric]

8 roles?  I didn't realize the Librarian had so many.  Yeah, Khush that really makes your argument on the investigations weak sauce.  Thats a lot of information to be able to start with.
I miss figured percentages I put them back when I have them right... I have a test on that tomorrow too.... Thats neither here nor there it all works out.

On the doctors.  I think it is a good idea to allow the mafia doctor to practice on their action day.  Just put a chance that they will be discovered by the Cop, just the Cop, for practicing without a license.

[wandering]

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Thoughts ideas?

I came across an interesting idea on the internets relating to jails and mafia games. I was originally going to use it in the game now known as star fox mafia, but eh. The idea is that, when someone is voted off, instead of getting killed, they go to jail. And then jail is a seperate thread where they can talk, and maybe try to break out. And there can be killings in the jail and other things.

...this jail variation lead me to toy with the idea of a mafia game that is heavily location based. You'd have seven or so threads representing different locations, and....well, I'm not sure what would come of that. Still thinking.

Anyway, back to the jail thing. I thought it might be interesting if the cop could choose each night whether he wanted to kill someone, guard the jail, or investigate someone. And, if you tried to escape while the jail was being guarded, you'd die. But if the jail wasn't being guarded, you'd rejoin the game. Or maybe you'd just escape off into the countryside, and "win" the game, with your role remaining a secret to everyone else playing. Still working on it.  

[decoyman]

Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
The only thing I might change would be to combine the librarian and cop roles. With the separate cop and librarian roles pooling their info, not to mention packets of info from the mole, they could have investigated everyone suspicious by this point in the game.

I forgot that part. There are so many ways to find mafia members this game (even the godfather, who is normally somewhat protected), I felt pretty naked out there I was trying to work ways to play with this role, and find somehow to discredit mole info, but because you are the one distributing this info, Khush, I was stumped. (But I do see why you set it up that way.)

I think the game may have been balanced before introducing the other mafia... but that kind of screwed things up a bit. Maybe adding a couple goons to the one mafia would have been the way to go.

Also, I don't mean to take anything away from the townies and how they're playing. They're being aggressive and tricky and overall playing well, I think. However, their "aggressive and tricky" seems to trump our "strategic and deceptive"

[Zach]

Thanks for the complement on my mafia Decoyman.  I really liked the character I invented for you (the godfather's lover), I havent seen it used again though.  The only thing about my mafia was that it didnt get too interesting untill the end because everyone just kept bandwagoning (oh yeah, and the explosion in the beginning was cool too.)

I havent seen any of the other characters I invented either (bartender (moe) and the distraction (krusty, but he wasnt very useful anyway)), oh well.

One thing that I was going to do with the lover role though is that they would not know who the members of their mafia were, that way, if the godfather died, the lover might accidentally kill their own mafia.  However, because I did not get as many people as I had expected I decided to add the lover to the actual mafia.

Anyway, this is a good game khush, I think the reason the librarian was so powerful though was that pale was lucky enough to find the bounty hunter, otherwise the librarian would have known my role, but would have had trouble doing anything about it.  

[Pale]

I was really torn with whether I should save my power or use it all at once.  I finally decided that I might as well make use of it as I was worried I would be killed right away anyway.  I got a pretty big allegience going right away.  I'm pissed Mario died so early, because we could have done a lot of damage.

What I'm most upset about is that I didn't take care of the killer right away.  =P for obvious reasons.  I should have been voting for him on day one, but for some reason I thout the mafia was more of a threat.