Author Topic: Recolution a lost battle? (Read 11780 times)

PugGTI · « **on:** May 17, 2005, 11:29:24 PM »

Ahhh... wasn't actually supposed to post this one and you'll all hate for what I wanted to write...

I'm thinking if Nintendo doesn't come up with something good, the gamecube will be the last Nintendo console for me. Do any of you guys feel the same way? I feel like i've been let down by a company I've stuck with and played some brilliant games but I feel they've deserted me. I love new technology. Can't get enough of something new.
Since the 64 nintendo got stuck on the belief that this isn't what I want, so i've been thinking....

X360 or PS3???

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2005, 11:48:01 PM »

First of all, you deserve to get your ass kicked and your name taken for that Reggie sig.

Second of all, regardless of whether Nintendo's console delivers it will still have Metroid, Zelda, SSB and Mario.

I'm already sold on the console, the only question is if I'll be completely satisfied with it.

Third, you can go take your sob story somewhere else until we actually know something about the Rev in comparison to the others. It's too early for your soap opera.

Fourth, Rev is supposed to be newer technology than the others. Unless you just mean more powerful technology that does the same thing it already does this gen but better... that's not new technology, it's upgraded technology.

Lastly, PS3.

PugGTI · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:03:30 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Fourth, Rev is supposed to be newer technology than the others. Unless you just mean more powerful technology that does the same thing it already does this gen but better... that's not new technology, it's upgraded technology.

XDR ram not new to consoles?
Bluray not new?
Tri-core processors?

What is new then?
If by what your saying is true then the NRev would be the upgraded one...

TMW · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:34:51 AM »

Those are just fancy ways of doing the same thing.

The Rev is going to find a way to a completely different thing.

Dryden · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:42:31 AM »

Well, Pug, if you aren't impressed by the time the other two consoles hit, go ahead and buy a 360 or PS3. But for now... don't post a thread asking if the Revolution is a "lost battle". It's a stupid statement to make before any system launches.

Honestly, though - if Nintendo isn't giving you what you want, then don't buy their stuff. But hold off on your pre-order for a few months, eh? Enjoy your Zelda and your Mario Kart DS and your Geist and your Animal Crossing.

As for the Gamecube being the "last Nintendo console" for you, that's too bad. I think the GBA is still the best system on the market. But that's just me and, you know, 28 million other owners. (No I don't speak for 28 million, pipe down...)

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:53:43 AM »

"What is new then?
If by what your saying is true then the NRev would be the upgraded one... "

Show me proof that the Rev does the same thing this gen of consoles is doing.

I don't care about your technical specs. When I sit down and play PS3 or X360, all I'll be doing is sitting down to play prettier Xbox or PS2 games.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2005, 01:43:55 AM »

Nintendo probably lost a lot of mindshare with that conference alone. They had the ball and didn't drop it, no, they rammed it 6 foot into the ground. When you're telling everyone that better graphics aren't going to cut it and that we need new ways of playing games you better damn well show up with some new way of playing games. Nintendo didn't. They showed up with another incremential console and touted backwards compatibility as if more of the old games would satisfy our desires for new games.

Seriously, whoever decided that the Rev should be shown at E3 like this is a mindless jerk who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes!

PugGTI · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2005, 02:49:47 AM »

I agree with the KD!

austinattech · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2005, 04:41:23 AM »

All this complaining about graphics power and all that is just ridiculous. When Nintendo comes out with games, they quickly become classics. Go dig out your NES and play some of those games for awhile...take note of how freakin fun those games are...then do the same with the SNES and maybe even the N64. All you naysayers can sell out and go grab a PS3, as for me I will be sitting around putting 1000 hours on the next installment of Mario Kart. If the games will only be 2-3 times "prettier" but just as fun, then I'm sold.

Also, on a side note, think of the inevitable rising costs of the new "interactive movies" that other platforms will have. With graphics like those, their development time for games will increase exponentially. "yea, I can't wait for the new ___________________ to come out in 2011."

PugGTI · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:14:09 AM »

Why does everyone think that newer and better technology only means better graphics??
What about the much better AI?
Collision detection?
Ease of development?
The list goes on...

I think i'll take the Silicon Knights approach. "Simple" wont just cut it, I play turd loads of games. I like to be able to pick a game up anytime and play it, yes, but I also want the game to draw me in with a sense of something much more than "button mashing".

rpglover · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:35:33 AM »

it could just be me, but i think nintendo i going in the right direction here- now don't get me wrong, i thought the e3 conference was lackluster to say the least (no controller or actual game footage shown) but nintendo gave away a lot of good details on their online plan and such

first of all, and it doesn't matter to everyone, but the rising costs of these new systems is crazy. the ps3 is already rumored to be selling in japan when it is released for around 465 dollars, and that's just not an affordable price. i know that the ps3 will come with all kinds of features, but i don't know if i would ever use all of these features. blu-ray disks are an example - a good storage for sure, but it is not a mass market player or storage medium yet. of course the ps2 launched with a dvd player and not many households had them back then. but then again the ps2 wasn't almost 500 bucks at launch.

another problem is this focus on the hd era. as much as i love high definition, i do not own an hd tv yet. i know many people that do not. this doesn't worry me as much for playing the games, but game costs are going to go up. i really don't have all this money to spend on these game systems, although some people do.

that's why i like where nintendo is taking the revolution. its going to be cheaper. its going to have nice next generation graphics, but it is not going to be over-powering. developement on the revolution is going to be easy, like the gamecube's so it will feel 'similar' to developers. plus this online plan that nintendo has going is great. you can download old classics right to the system. now i know that's not a huge thing for some people, but its no denying that playing old classics and new ones all on one system kicks total ass. not only that, but its free online for all games unless third party games want to charge a fee. also just because the developement will be simple for the revolution does not mean that the games will be 'simple.' nintendo is making their console developer friendly so people with that 'big idea' can come and develope without spending rediculous costs on game developement.

there are many other things to talk about, like the sleekness and such, but remember - nintendo has yet to show off any footage of revolution games. they have yet to show us any revolution games. they haven't shown us the controler. so there is still much to be revealed, which i can't wait for.

tpfkanep · « **Reply #11 on:** May 18, 2005, 06:04:28 AM »

Well, well... what have we here? Ppl spelling doom and gloom without solid facts? Hailing in the victory of the... console wars... also without all the facts? What a sad bunch some of us gamers are.

Kaplin: The Revolution will be 2-3 times more powerful than the Cube = Multiply Zelda:TP and RE4 by 2-3. And what do you have? Nintendo is known to downplay their hardware. The PS2 can push ~70 million polygons. The Cube ~12 million. Look at the games on both systems and then tell me if specs mean anything. On paper, yes. But in real world environments? Will PS3 be another PS2? I dunno, but I will not be surprised. When taking cost into effect, I will be the 1st to show surprise if Sony delivers this time. It seems everyone is so quick to forget the stunts that Sony pulled with the PS2. Maybe they will be doing the same this time? I dunno, but I have no faith in them after the way they suckered me in with the PS2-hype.

Nintendo delivers.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** May 18, 2005, 06:10:44 AM »

Nintendo has not lost anything. If the fate of every console was decided on press conferences, then GameCube would have outsold the competition two to one last year. There are still many battles to be fought before the systems even launch.

ta7mike · « **Reply #13 on:** May 18, 2005, 06:54:11 AM »

I agree with tpfkanep.

At the end of day, development for the Rev will be more economical and hopefully allow Developers to be Creative rather than concentrating how 'realistic' the spit looks...don't get me wrong, RE4 definitely showed off how realistic a game should be and can be on Ninty's platform, and the new Zelda will just prove that again, and that's important. At the end of day I want QUALITY rather than a BLUR of games.

What you have here is two big guns showing off every feature on day one, whereas the Big N leaves out the Specs, leaves out the big secret on the controllers in order to save the day! Don't discount the feature of Nintendo's Wireless Internet connectivity where you can download their own 20 years of gaming library games or new titles developed by Indie Creators in Europe, Asia, etc. (Discussed in another thread) that don't have a million dollar dev budget, think of an iTunes for GAMES. Quote from their press release:"Freedom of design: A dynamic development architecture equally accommodates both big-budget, high-profile game “masterpieces” as well as indie games conceived by individual developers equipped with only a big idea."

The battle is not lost...but has only BEGUN...Ninty is working on its biggest GUN yet..

jasonditz · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2005, 07:24:46 AM »

If Zelda, Mario, and Metroid aren't what you want, why buy a Nintendo console and complain?

Arbok · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2005, 07:38:13 AM »

Let me see, new Smash Bros? Check
New Smash Bros game at launch? Check
Online Smash Bros? Check

Would I kill for the Revolution now? Hell yes

Honestly, to me, they could just say that the Revolution could play GCN games, you could download old Nintendo games, and that you could play a new SSB online and I would get it. Everything else is gravy to me, although SSB:M is my favorite game of all time.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #16 on:** May 18, 2005, 07:59:58 AM »

I think it's far too early for any fan to jump ship. The conference was disappointing because of the lack of information, not the information shown. What we do know about the Rev is good. I like what I'm seeing so far a lot. I just want to know more and don't have enough info to make an accurate opinion. Even the supposed power of the console isn't worth freaking out over until we see the specs and see the games. All we have is a vague statement. It's not enough to declare the Rev as underpowered.

The Rev isn't a lost battle...yet. The conference was very damaging. But it's not too late yet. If Nintendo reveals all the Rev details in the next few months and they have something really amazing to show they should be fine. If they wait until next E3 they're f*cked. Timing is very important. They also have to share the info with third parties with enough time for meaningful third party games to be made for launch. We don't know when they plan on doing that or if they've done that already but that's another important factor. And of course what those extra details are is important as well. If they reveal the controller is a powerglove it doesn't matter if they reveal it tommorrow or ten years from now. It will bomb.

I still think that yesterday was the time to show things and they're risking Rev sales every day since then that they don't show info. But they can still pull it off. Ask me if the Revolution is a lost battle this Christmas. By then we'll either have enough information to make a good opinion or we won't have that information at which point I'll declare the Rev as a lost battle.

Muzzy · « **Reply #17 on:** May 18, 2005, 08:49:19 AM »

This is a sort of off topic question, but - PugGTI, do you post on the VWVortex forums? I swear I recognize your name.

Chode2234 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2005, 09:33:44 AM »

The only ones upset by the lack of information are the people who will buy it anyway, I completely agree with Ian, great post it sums it all up nicely.

Jdub03 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2005, 01:47:33 PM »

Yeah I was very dissappointed in the e3 conference. Only because iv'e been so excited about the revolution these past couple of months. E3 was my most anticipated gaming event ever. It did not live up to my expectations. Really everything at the Conferences were lackluster to me. The only thing that made me go wow was killzone(which may or may not be what the ps3 can actually do ingame). Im still anxiously awaiting new revo information, until then "I hate you nintendo".

trip1eX · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:15:16 PM »

Well let's face facts. The revolution ain't going to be in first place in North America. It ain't going to be in second place either. It's going to be in third place.

The real question is can Nintendo still make money making a third place console? If they can then there isn't much of a problem is there. I think if they come in at $200 it will help. Of course 3rd party support can't hurt. Be nice if they could get some major third party exclusives at least one a year or so to help round out their library. Also Nintendo said they are working on some new IPs. That is exciting stuff.

Worst case maybe they go software only on the console side. Hell they still make bongos and microphones and even new controllers to play with their games on other other consoles. The peripheral has been most of their innovation on the hardware side anyway.

TMW · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:25:25 PM »

Um...quit calling the race before it starts.

To keep with the race metaphor, you're making odds on a horse you haven't even seen yet, just a few pictures and some rumors.

Wait until they release some specs, and maybe a detail about the controller or two.

Then, I suppose, you can say "Nintendo is teh doomed!"

Strell · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:26:04 PM »

Man, if people honestly think that more power = better AI and better hit detection, they obviously know nothing about programming.

Yea, increasing the polygons and making engines with more features is a nice idea, but outside of graphics, hardly anything else can be improved UNLESS you get incredibly talented programmers to hack away at features for long, long periods of time. Yea, a physics engine on the PS3 might be more in depth than the PS2, but it is LARGELY based on how well the programmers write it. It has so little to do with the pure power of the system itself. And in a profit-based economy and industry, NO ONE wants to have their games stick around to let the programmers hammer out a more realistic way of falling.

It's wishful thinking to assume that a bigger console = more features outside of graphics. Yea, in a perfect world where everyone had years to write better code and engines, that might be. But in this EA-get-a-game-out-every-year-no-matter-what, you'll be lucky to see anything leaps and bounds ahead of what is currently available. Clothing physics, water reflections, shadows and lighting. The only reason the N64 couldn't do it better is because the graphics would have required too much.

But I'm pretty damn sure if you were to animate, say, a feather on the N64, it could be identical in physics to the PS3. Sure, it would look like sh*t compared to it, but you could easily implement almost identical code.

More power = more graphics and that's almost SOLELY what it will always mean.

Caillan · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:28:11 PM »

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The real question is can Nintendo still make money making a third place console?

I'd point out that the Cube is more profitable than the PS2 and the XBox combined, but because the XBox has actually lost money I guess it wold be better to say it's made more money than the PS2 and PS1/PSX/PSOne combined. Nintendo can make a profit and Nintendo can fight its way back to number one or number two is the states again. Just we don't have enough information to even guess if they will yet.

PugGTI · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2005, 07:27:23 PM »

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Man, if people honestly think that more power = better AI and better hit detection, they obviously know nothing about programming.

Cheers, tho its obviously you who knows nothing. Where are YOU coming from? A couple of late nights of HTML? Do you really think that an 8-bit MC68HC11 Microcontroller would be able to execute 100 lines of instructions in the same amount of time as an AMD64? How many lines does it take in machine code to even create a triangular wave on a simple oscilliscope?
Do you think Kaspro-whatever plays chess against a gamecube? - No he plays against freakin' supercomputers!

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And in a profit-based economy and industry, NO ONE wants to have their games stick around to let the programmers hammer out a more realistic way of falling.

First off all, its always profit based. But I don't care how much money ninetndo makes; I want to enjoy what I play.
Calculating more lines in the same amount of time makes it far easier on programmers, not harder.

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But I'm pretty damn sure if you were to animate, say, a feather on the N64, it could be identical in physics to the PS3. Sure, it would look like sh*t compared to it, but you could easily implement almost identical code.

I really think your missing the point here too, if for example there were a hundred enemies on the N64 how many could or would you have on a PS3. Doesn't that change the gameplay totally? What about the bodies piling up? Stepping over them? Now thats not JUST graphics. If you think that artists are the only ones that create games you are wrong.

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Author Topic: Recolution a lost battle? (Read 11780 times)