Topic: Something that bugs me (about games on the Wii)

[NWR_pap64]

Ever since Manhunt 2 was announced in the afternoon, some opinions on the matter have annoyed me.

During the N64 and GC games, gamers were complaining that the systems weren't getting any games and developers were ignoring them. They were also complaining that Nintendo was being too strict about their third party games and needed to loosen up a bit and allow all kinds of games and not force such high quality rules. They also mentioned that they didn't need to force developers to use their proprietary formats and should go with the most common and easier to develop for.

The Wii is a whole different story. With ease of development, mass appeal and tons of potential, developers are now making a lot of games for it, but now the fans are complaining that the Wii will be home to un-inspired ports, rush jobs and third party games we don't care about...

So which is it? You want the Nintendo systems to have a vast library of games and want developers to experiment around with their games, yet demand that ALL of them meet Nintendo's standards and shouldn't suck?

I can honestly see why Nintendo has decided to focus on a broader audience of gamers rather than stick with the fans, since the fans themselves don't even know what they truly want.

I mean, they want the games, but at the same time they don't...MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS ALREADY!

[Maverick]

We want the Wii to get the same kind of attention and support that the X-Box/PS2 did last gen.  We just don't want to PLAY all those crappy games those systems got.

[Kairon]

Wow... Nintendo fans want games that they won't buy... *shakes head*

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Amodaus1]

my demands are simple. I want capcom and konami, and to a lesser extent namco, and i only want 2 things from square, chrono break and bushido blade 3, both of which will never happen.

Other developers i like are sony first party, so they are not coming nintendo's way no matter what.

Acctually to be honest, its not the developer, but the director/producers that i'm after. So i'm not really intrested in capcom as much as i'm intrested in where the creator of DMC left too after capcom fired him, same with the head of clover, ect ect

Either way, tons of support or not. As long as nintendo makes their own games, and doesn't hand them off to other developers i'm happy. I would have been INFINETLY happier knowing nintendo handled yoshi island DS and not artoon, nintendo just seems to have better personel and training for their directors/producers, and of course alot more expierence.

So in reference to your manhunt 2 example. If its on the wii fine, power too the wii. I wouldn't buy it ever, regardless of the system. I don't like the developer or the talent they have. There are a few studios i don't give a damn about becuase i've played their games and never liked them, Rockstar is one. So is it good Rockstar is making a wii game, sure, but do i personally care, no, and niether will most in this small community.  

[NeoThunder]

I think the crap part was something to worry about at launch.  Now that Wii is becomeing so popular, sure their might be some crap games come out, but there will be a lot of great games that will be made just for Wii or with Wii in mind instead of being a quick port.  With ease of devolpment, there is no reason developers can't make good games with good controls.

[Kairon]

Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[MarioAllStar]

Quote
The Wii is a whole different story. With ease of development, mass appeal and tons of potential, developers are now making a lot of games for it, but now the fans are complaining that the Wii will be home to un-inspired ports, rush jobs and third party games we don't care about...

And it will be. Maybe not much more than the GameCube was, but it definitely will have a lot of crappy games. Just like the DS has games where the developers put little thought into creativity, but instead shoehorned touch screen controls where they don't belong. We can expect some of the same on Wii.

However, and this is the good part, with the increased popularity we will be getting more games in general. We might have a smaller percentage of gems than we did in previous generations, but the overall number of qualities titles should be higher. In that aspect, the Wii will become the PS2 of this generation.

[NeoThunder]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.

Wait a sec.....i'm sorry but Far Cry was absolute crap....you can't have fun with a game that has bad controls

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: NeoThunder

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Crappy is a state of mind. Far Cry was FUN.

Wait a sec.....i'm sorry but Far Cry was absolute crap....you can't have fun with a game that has bad controls

Wow... Far Cry had the BEST controls off the bat from the first three Wii FPS games. I didn't expect to see you criticize the one thing that has been heralded as the game's only redeeming feature.

Sez Eurogamer:

Quote
However, there's one shining good point to be dropped into the whole affair, for which many ills are going to be forgiven over the course of this review. Far Cry: Vengeance, for all its many, many faults, is the first Wii game to get first-person shooter controls absolutely, totally right.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NWR_pap64]

Like I mentioned before, crap games will be inevitable. Its a trade off. You either get a lot of games with loss of quality or get only a handful of high quality games. But the reality is that people see quantity first, quality second.

The PSone and PS2 were home to some god awful games, yet people were amazed at the massive library of games, which also contained some amazing hidden gems.

What I mean is that during the N64 and GC eras fans were complaining that developers were ignoring these consoles and wanted these games appear on the Nintendo consoles. Now that its looking that there will be more games this time around, fans are bitching that the game will damage it and that they don't need it.

Like I said, you either get one or the other. You can't have both. You can't expect the Wii to survive with just a handful of games, despite high quality, but you can't expect every single game to be stellar and well polished.

[Nick DiMola]

I personally think it's great that the Wii is being opened up to very broad support. Rockstar making a Wii game? I would've never guessed it, but here it is, Manhunt 2. Who knows what's next? If the Wii becomes the defacto system, much like the PS2 was last generation, you won't hear a peep from my mouth. I can't imagine getting all my great Nintendo games, and all the exciting 3rd party games all in one spot. It just gives me more bang for my buck. I now know (hopefully) that I won't have to buy a PS3 to pick up a large cross section of amazing games that I missed. If they all come to the Wii, I don't have to worry about it.

If I see a single person complain that Nintendo is now getting the support everyone has been complaining about not getting for years, I may just have to slap them. The strong 3rd party support is a blessing and finally Nintendo is shining in the bright light it has been shunned from for years.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I personally think it's great that the Wii is being opened up to very broad support. Rockstar making a Wii game? I would've never guessed it, but here it is, Manhunt 2. Who knows what's next? If the Wii becomes the defacto system, much like the PS2 was last generation, you won't hear a peep from my mouth. I can't imagine getting all my great Nintendo games, and all the exciting 3rd party games all in one spot. It just gives me more bang for my buck. I now know (hopefully) that I won't have to buy a PS3 to pick up a large cross section of amazing games that I missed. If they all come to the Wii, I don't have to worry about it.

If I see a single person complain that Nintendo is now getting the support everyone has been complaining about not getting for years, I may just have to slap them. The strong 3rd party support is a blessing and finally Nintendo is shining in the bright light it has been shunned from for years.

Yeah, but will you buy those EA/Ubi titles landing in March? Will you buy ManHunt?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
What I mean is that during the N64 and GC eras fans were complaining that developers were ignoring these consoles and wanted these games appear on the Nintendo consoles. Now that its looking that there will be more games this time around, fans are bitching that the game will damage it and that they don't need it.

I think people are worried that, while the Wii might not be ignored like before, it may not be taken fully seriously.  It's the least powerful console by a notable margin this generation, which devs might use as an excuse to be lazy, since expectations will be lower.  Key word is might.  I think many fans are just protective of Nintendo, and so they worry about these possibilities.

[Amodaus1]

I'm not complaining about support. I'm not saying, "Hey look we're getting games, BOO, go away games." Whoever wants to make a game and sell it, congrats, i applaud you. But i'm not intrested in rock star.

I try and follow certain developers, because i like their games, and i know when they make another it'll probably be good. And i don't follow certain developers, becuase i play their games and i didn't like them, so when they make news ones, odds are, they won't be good to me.

Out of all my games most are from Nintendo, SCE, Capcom and konami. I have a few strays, like Quest - Ogre Battle, and Square with chrono trigger, the only 2 xbox games i have are halo 1 and 2.

If the wii gets a Metal gear solid or a resident evil 4 esq game, then i will rejoice. If the wii has some wierd developer making 2-D games, then i'll check it out (i perfer 2-D over 3D). But i just don't like Rock Star, or anything attached to take-two. Epic is another house i don't enjoy. I broke down and played Gears full well knowing i hate everything else they have ever made, and i really really hate unreal. Sure enough i thought gears sucked hard. So i stay away from now on, and i'll stay away from anything else cliffy B makes.

I know people like a massive library. I really don't. I like to play a really good game, and then i like to play it again, and again. I have beaten RE 4 almost 8 times. This summer i'm tempted to do a professonal no guns run or a professional no merchant run, but the very fact that i still want to play the game, despite the fact that i've beaten it so many times already is a testament that quality = quantity in hours spent playing. I don't enjoy the idea of quality second, quantity first. It sounds hollow, and more of a marketing ploy than enjoyment, and it is quite costly. Thus my beef with yoshi's isnland for the DS, i know if nintendo stalled 1 year, and released it themselves, it would have been worthy of its name.  

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Yeah, but will you buy those EA/Ubi titles landing in March? Will you buy ManHunt?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I'm not sure about Manhunt just yet. The first one was really boring. If this one can really impress me, there is a strong possibility I will buy it. Gestures for this game seem fitting (and kind of brutal, double awesome). EA regular sports games aren't my thing so I will be avoiding them. As for the rest, I will play it by ear. The new SSX looks good, and I am sure there are others coming that will interest me. Ubisoft games are hit or miss as well. Alot of their titles I'd rather play on my 360(as of now) but we'll see as this generation plays out.

I can guarantee you, if a game isn't good, I won't be buying it. I regret buying Red Steel, because I think it sends Ubisoft a message that people will tolerate their unfinished crap. I understand your point though, you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk. I can, and many others can too, but many may not, and don't necessarily need to. If Nintendo has cornered that Blue Ocean market as well as they say, those will be the people who will carry the torch. Remember we are the most critical consumers, most people buy things if it looks cool not if it is a quality game. As long as the general populous is on Nintendo's side you'll see every game under the sun get a release on the Wii.  

[Famicom]

No complaints from me. While personally I'm 1000x more psyched for the next installment of Guily Gear to hit Wii (if indeed that rumor turns out true), I fully recognize the importance of a company like Rockstar supporting the Wii, and actually would be very tempted in buying a copy of Manhunt 2 provided it turns out OK.

[Smash_Brother]

Well said, Pap, but it's also the "grass is greener" syndrome at work.

It's easier to believe that another system is getting better support than your system when you don't actually own it and can't determine for yourself. This, frankly, is the only explanation we have for why people are complaining at the lack of Wii software despite it only being three months into its life.

There is far more software in development for the Wii than what has been announced right now. Manhunt 2 was announced today and will be out this summer. Worst case scenario, that's 7 months after announcement.

Don't despair just because these games haven't been announced yet. We have no idea what else is currently waiting to be announced while still under wraps...

[Amodaus1]

Here's hoping for pikmin 3 to have a crazy battle mode. I enjoyed the 2 vs in pikmin 2, they could slap that on as well, but i want to drive armies of 1000s of pikmin into one another. It's also be intresting if they could let you control the predotor species in an online mode.

Either way, i'm sure nintendo will have some impressive surprises. Still nothing is going to top Galaxy when it hits. I also heard the team working on galaxy was the same that handled Jungle beat, which is only more good news for the wii. I hope they sequel jungle beat.

[Adrock]

In a perfect world, I'd want 3rd parties to release all the great games I want to play and none of the filler. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. To get the great titles you have to get the crap with it. I'm not buying ass titles so if I don't care if they're on Wii as long as I get an amazing game too. I could care less about Naruto if I got Soul Calibur 4. I could care less about Generic Chocobo Whore Fest if I got Chrono 3.

I would definitely take variety. There should be games for everyone even if the ratio was like 4:1 crappy to amazing games. I know most of the games will likely suck and I won't play them, but whatever, as long as 3rd parties still provide some great innovative and imaginative titles.

[Crimm]

I don't want lazy ports of PS2 games with tacked on waggle.

[Pittbboi]

This isn't fair.

Just because people want to see more games on the Wii doesn't mean we're going to automatically be satisfied by a flurry of rushed games and uninspired ports. We more games, yes; but we still want good games.

I always thought it was a amazing that whenever someone complained about the lack of 3rd party games on any Nintendo system, there's always a rush of people listing any old crap that was released just to toss us a bone. This was especially the case on the 'Cube. "What do you mean Nintendo has no third party support!? Barney's Purple Adventures was just released!!"

While I can admit that it's a very good sign that the Wii is getting more support than the Cube, we're still seeing half-a**ed support for the most part--just slightly more of it. Safe, uninspiring games that publishers don't really have to take a real risk to put on the Wii. We don't see major, mature, big budget, envelope pushing titles (that are good, sorry Red Steel) of the sort that the other next gen consoles are getting. Heck, it's a pipe dream at best that the Wii version of Manhunt 2 will be more than a (most likely badly) ported PS2 game with Wii controls tacked on (though, I'm one of the people hoping that it's more than that).

And it just makes it frustrating when we say we want these kinds of games and get "shut down" thoughtlessly. We ask for a good, epic third party game, and people expect us to be happy with a game like Dewy's Adventure. We ask for a game with a mature setting and storyline, and immediately get lambasted for "thinking that blood and sex makes a good game", when the whole time by "mature" we meant a game with a setting more sophisticated than what we can read on the back of a cereal box before we solve the puzzle and find out just what did happen to Toucan Sam.

Heck, I know a lot of people (including myself) would be happy with even just an announcement proving that big things were on the way to the Wii from some godsend third party.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
This isn't fair.

Just because people want to see more games on the Wii doesn't mean we're going to automatically be satisfied by a flurry of rushed games and uninspired ports. We more games, yes; but we still want good games.

I always thought it was a amazing that whenever someone complained about the lack of 3rd party games on any Nintendo system, there's always a rush of people listing any old crap that was released just to toss us a bone. This was especially the case on the 'Cube. "What do you mean Nintendo has no third party support!? Barney's Purple Adventures was just released!!"

While I can admit that it's a very good sign that the Wii is getting more support than the Cube, we're still seeing half-a**ed support for the most part--just slightly more of it. Safe, uninspiring games that publishers don't really have to take a real risk to put on the Wii. We don't see major, mature, big budget, envelope pushing titles (that are good, sorry Red Steel) of the sort that the other next gen consoles are getting. Heck, it's a pipe dream at best that the Wii version of Manhunt 2 will be more than a (most likely badly) ported PS2 game with Wii controls tacked on (though, I'm one of the people hoping that it's more than that).

And it just makes it frustrating when we say we want these kinds of games and get "shut down" thoughtlessly. We ask for a good, epic third party game, and people expect us to be happy with a game like Dewy's Adventure. We ask for a game with a mature setting and storyline, and immediately get lambasted for "thinking that blood and sex makes a good game", when the whole time by "mature" we meant a game with a setting more sophisticated than what we can read on the back of a cereal box before we solve the puzzle and find out just what did happen to Toucan Sam.

Heck, I know a lot of people (including myself) would be happy with even just an announcement proving that big things were on the way to the Wii from some godsend third party.

Once again, expect this to happen to a console which gets the most support.

There WILL be games that will be rushed with tacked on controls, and there will also be games that will be god awful. But there will also be games that range from rock solid to simply amazing and many will be truly ambitious and awe-inspiring.

You just have to wait till all of them are released. It's OK to not buy the games if you are not interested. No one if forcing you to buy the games, especially if you want something more. But its also unfair to dismiss that support, ESPECIALLY if you don't plan to try it out.

Do I need to remind you last week's Konami announcement?

They announced 4 games, 3 of them brand new IPs that have been made from the ground up. The other is a follow up to a very popular franchise, and it looks like Konami will put some EFFORT into it.

Square, easily the biggest third party at the moment, has two BRAND NEW games that are made exclusively for the Wii.

Along with the ports EA is also creating brand new games that make full use of the controller.

The thing is that some people, you included, are crying wolf a little too early. While its true that some developers will create rush jobs out of games, you forget that there are also developers that are more than willing to innovate and be creative.

Just give the Wii some time before you continue the "all games will be half assed!" nonsense.

[Kairon]

Given how much Nintendo fans crusade against certain critically acclaimed games, like GoW, the Final Fantasy Series, Resistance, Halo, GTA, God of War, etc. I'm not surprised to see Nintendo fans calling almost all the other games in existence crap not worth buying.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pittbboi]

Quote
But there will also be games that range from rock solid to simply amazing and many will be truly ambitious and awe-inspiring.

All I want is the proof that this is coming, because so far we have gotten the tacked on controls, the low-budget, and the god-awful games. But we haven't even gotten word that we'll be getting games like what you described in the quote. So far we're all are going on faith, and not much in the way of facts. You can't blame certain Nintendo fans for being a little low on faith; Nintendo's really been abusing that faith until recently.  I may be a pessimist, but heck, Nintendo made me that way.
 

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Given how much Nintendo fans crusade against certain critically acclaimed games, like GoW, the Final Fantasy Series, Resistance, Halo, GTA, God of War, etc. I'm not surprised to see Nintendo fans calling almost all the other games in existence crap not worth buying.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Actually I am on a crusade against most of those games because I've experienced far better games in those genres on the PC. Never liked the FF series besides FF2 (US version), God of War was ok, Halo/Resistance are a poor man's FPSs with crappy gamepad controls, GTA series is good but not amazing, and GoW was severely overrated.

In response to this topic I think Pap has a point, it is going to take time for 3rd parties to test the waters with Wii, not only are they hesitant to go to Nintendo but the Wii offers a brand spanking new way to play games like the analog stick before it. With all that taking into consideration I can handle a few poor games in order to get to the good stuff once they get the hang of the Wii. I may even get Manhunt but I'll have to wait and see.