Topic: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES

[Mop it up]

I wasn't going to say anything but you had to go and insult Miyamoto which is something I will not stand for.

How was what I said an insult to Miyamoto? Even his crap is better than 90% of other games.

[NWR_insanolord]

I wasn't going to say anything but you had to go and insult Miyamoto which is something I will not stand for.

How was what I said an insult to Miyamoto? Even his crap is better than 90% of other games.

The implication that Miyamoto would just crap out a game instead of meticulously crafting it in his perfectionist way is clearly defamation of character.

[gojira]

And I think that the reason not too many people have played it is because it got lost in the launch of 18 titles.

I think you should play the game before deciding why few people have played it.

Who says I haven't played it?  I don't own the game, but I have played it a bit.  And considering it got decent reviews from multiple sites, I'm pretty sure it's not because it isn't a good game. 

I don't really think it would be good for this feature because I don't think there's much discussion to be had from it.

Maybe, but I doubt Jonny would put it in the poll if he didn't think enough of a conversation could be born from the game.

[Mop it up]

The implication that Miyamoto would just crap out a game instead of meticulously crafting it in his perfectionist way is clearly defamation of character.

That wasn't a metaphor. Even Miyamoto is human and has to poop like the rest of us. Sometimes he meticulously crafts his excrement into a game.

Did Miyamoto even have any involvement with Wrecking Crew?

As far as the game having conversational worth, as long as the people involved in the discussion have different opinions, any game will have something to talk about. Clearly that's the case here, since I don't agree with either of you that it's a good game.

[Jonnyboy117]

Maybe, but I doubt Jonny would put it in the poll if he didn't think enough of a conversation could be born from the game.

I don't know much about Wrecking Crew, but the comments in this thread have already proven that it was an interesting nomination.  ;-)

[AV]

STARTROPICS !!!

man i hate that ****en game !

I heard so much hype around it from message boards thats its an island version of zelda. So i downloaded it.

At first it was like zelda and I was enjoying it, but than I got to the caves (dungeons for zelda fans) and those things are TEDIOUS and ANNOYING.

I seriously feel the game developers made this game to purposely upset you.

I felt like Angry Video Game Nerd with this game.

I didn't get far into the game, but I hate it with a passion. They are out to get you, seriously.   

one example

your inside a cave with narrow walkway. The walkway is surrounded by water, and if you fall into that water you die. Bats are in the cave and they push you off the narrow walkway into the water. And the lights go off maybe 2 seconds after entering that room. So you can't see anything but your own character. So you don't see the bats coming, you don't see the pathway, and don't see the water. So guess what ?? Yeah you will fall several times to your death because you can't see, or the bats push you into the water. You can kill the bats but you don't know where they are. Also did I mention when you die you start from the beginning of the cave and this area is in the middle of the cave ?? Yeah this game is out to get you.

You guys need to do this with Startropics to warn people about this horrible game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Startropics is great, yeah it has some cheap parts but the boss fights are epic, the humor is great, and the puzzles are pretty neat. I especially loved how in the original manual you got the solution to a puzzle by using the manual and dipping the letter in water, it was really a 4th wall breaking thing.

Not only that but the game had a ton of diverse locations and was quite challenging as well.

[Jonnyboy117]

Adolph, your story cannot be accurate, because there's no knock-back in StarTropics.  In other words, enemies cannot push you into the water.  There are a few cheap moments in the game, but they are almost always avoidable (if you pay REALLY close attention) or are punishment for greedy behavior (searching for a secret room when you are already in a secret room).

The only true gripe I have with StarTropics is that it never explains how to use magical items.  Once someone tells you that, or you figure out in desperation, the game goes much more smoothly.  (Protip: pause and press down or Select to see more items.  Required for the second boss.)

I understand the Zelda comparisons, but StarTropics is actually a unique game with many, many interesting qualities.  It's far more puzzle-based and twitch-based than any Zelda game.  The controls are unusual to be sure, but they make more sense if you stick with the game and get used to its weird little rhythms.  I certainly have childhood fondness for it (as Greg does for Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts), but StarTropics is definitely one of my favorite NES games and one I have recommended to many friends over the years.  It's difficult, but not on the order of SGnG or even the average Mega Man game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I agree with everything you said Jonny. Startropics really isn't that comparable to Zelda. It does have some puzzles or items that are confusing, like you stated, but once you get the hang of it, it does go smoothly. The bosses are really challenging for the most party (I remember that ghost giving me big troubles!). Even though it scared me to death (and still does) the whale sequence was truly something unique at the time. Really I would call the game a Zelda/Platformer.

[Mop it up]

StarTropics is difficult for the wrong reasons: the controls are terrible. When a game is difficult in this way rather than by design, I don't feel like I could ever improve at such a game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

StarTropics is difficult for the wrong reasons: the controls are terrible. When a game is difficult in this way rather than by design, I don't feel like I could ever improve at such a game.

The controls weren't ideal but you could easily get used to them, just take your time. Most of the times I died was because I did something dumb. The game controls like LoZ just with jumping and minor platforming thrown in.

[Mop it up]

Maybe you can get used to them easily, but I can't, especially not after playing the much-improved sequel. Combine bad control with the almost complete lack of invulnerability after getting hit, and it's a recipe for disaster.

[Jonnyboy117]

I think its controls are fine; what understandably puts off some people is the level design.  In other words, the controls are very well suited to the gameplay, but the gameplay itself is so weird and defiantly stodgy that some people never get into it.  The game is very strictly tile-based, even when you aren't literally standing on a tile, as Mike always moves per unit of space.  Many enemies, like the snakes, are carefully placed to interplay with Mike's movement abilities.  Off the top of my head, I can only compare it to the Lolo series.  Then there's the jumping -- it is certainly not used as you would in a side-scrolling platformer.  You can jump to dodge enemies, but since Mike goes straight up and down, the timing is pretty tight.  When on tiles, you have to look ahead one or two moves and also try to match your jump timing with that of nearby enemies.  Also, one vital and non-obvious technique is that you can change direction in mid-air.  It won't change where you land, but it does allow you to attack enemies in mid-air if they pass by you on a parallel trajectory.

I haven't played StarTropics 2 in a very long time, but I distinctly recall feeling that the smoother controls no longer matched the gameplay, so it always felt off.  Of course, I'm not opposed to smooth controls on principle, but it seemed like the level designs and combat were left alone, while the controls were changed significantly, and that left a rift that never felt right.  I would be interested in giving the sequel another chance, though.  Yet another one for the NES follow-up poll!

[NWR_Neal]

I love the chaos that occurs whenever a RetroActive poll goes up.
I think it shows how great this feature is.

[Stratos]

I love the chaos that occurs whenever a RetroActive poll goes up.
I think it shows how great this feature is.

QFT

Though I do mourn the loss of Poll Watching. People went and ruined half my fun.

[Mop it up]

In other words, the controls are very well suited to the gameplay, but the gameplay itself is so weird and defiantly stodgy that some people never get into it. The game is very strictly tile-based, even when you aren't literally standing on a tile, as Mike always moves per unit of space.

It's this restricted control that makes the controls feel sluggish and unresponsive, it feels like a step down from Zelda. Combine that with the half-second invulnerability and no knock back when hit, and it makes escaping and dodging enemies needlessly difficult. Every loss feels cheap. I think I got about halfway through the game before I got fed up with the abysmal control.

I'd recommend this game only to people with a tolerance for NES games. It's nowhere near as playable and accessible as games like Super Mario Brothers.

[adadad]

I'd recommend this game only to people with a tolerance for NES games. It's nowhere near as playable and accessible as games like Super Mario Brothers.

Seconded. None of the other games in the poll feel as archaic as StarTropics (although I can't speak for Wrecking Crew).

I like River City Ransom but it feels a bit aimless and repetitive - it is a fun game however played co-op. And as some have mentioned already, whilst I love the Megaman series it's been discussed a hell of a lot. Hence I'm plumping for Zelda 2; I found it enjoyable, slightly frustrating, and it's also a fairly divisive entry in the Zelda series.

Most notably for me, I remember feeling when I played it on the VC that it was more enjoyable than Twilight Princess. And to think, I paid 10 times less for Zelda 2!

[Flames_of_chaos]

BARF <-- That should give you a hint of what I voted for.

Star Tropics 1 and Zoda's Revenge are awesome games. The only thing I didn't really like about it is how easy it is to die and the traps, but it's still very awesome and fun.

[NWR_Neal]

I love StarTropics. It's probably one of my favorite NES games. It's cruel in parts, like in the ghost area, but the game's pretty solid imo. It's also got some of the best humor in a game from that era.

The sequel mucks it up a bit, but it just gets even crazier. I think I captured the sequel's strengths and weaknesses in my VC write up for it a while back.

[TJ Spyke]

I'm kind of disappointed that Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't nominated, but 2 other games that I picked were nominated.

I think River City Ransom should win. Even though it is best played in co-op (like almost every beat 'em up game), it is still fun to play in single player. I also want an excuse to pick it up from the Wii Shop Channel (which is why I hoped SMB or SMB2 would be nominated since I already own both). I haven't played the game in years.

[AV]

i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.

[Stratos]

I'm kind of disappointed that Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't nominated, but 2 other games that I picked were nominated.

I think River City Ransom should win. Even though it is best played in co-op (like almost every beat 'em up game), it is still fun to play in single player. I also want an excuse to pick it up from the Wii Shop Channel (which is why I hoped SMB or SMB2 would be nominated since I already own both). I haven't played the game in years.

SMB2 would be a good one to have in the follow up NES poll. Haven't played that one in over a decade. I nabbed it at a rummage sale with a pile of other NES games but my system does not work. I've been thinking of buying one of those 'redesigned' NES systems made by a different company. The Generation NEX. Looks pretty neat and it can even use your old controllers or they have new wireless ones too.

[adadad]

i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.

I understand this because I did pretty much the same thing, but I still felt that the game had some charm and humour. With the SD card channel, now does seem like a good time to go back and give it another try since there's no longer a pressing need to delete it for the purpose of freeing up harddrive space. Whaddaya say? Now's a better time than ever to 'look back' I'd say.

[Mop it up]

I nabbed it at a rummage sale with a pile of other NES games but my system does not work. I've been thinking of buying one of those 'redesigned' NES systems made by a different company.

Exactly how does it not work? The best solution is to get a new 72-pin connector to put into your NES, they are a lot more reliable than the after-market knockoff systems.

[AV]

i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.

I understand this because I did pretty much the same thing, but I still felt that the game had some charm and humour. With the SD card channel, now does seem like a good time to go back and give it another try since there's no longer a pressing need to delete it for the purpose of freeing up harddrive space. Whaddaya say? Now's a better time than ever to 'look back' I'd say.

nope. I have other stuff not completed to play. I want to give Neutopia II another chance.
I liked that game allot, but I got lost on the map so didn't come back to it so I forgot where things where, but its a very good clone of zelda.

oh yeah I did enjoy River City Ransom co-op as well. The only problem is that the game is so huge and to my knowing it has NO MAP . My friend and I wandered around for hours and have no clue where to go next or what to do next. I like the game, the leveling up and store aspects are fantastic, but I need some direction and a map. This feels like sandbox game where you can go anywhere and do anything, but like 20 years ahead of its time.