Author Topic: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title  (Read 1268 times)

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Offline riskman64

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F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« on: September 14, 2023, 06:56:00 AM »

Classic SNES F-ZERO racing meets last-person standing gameplay.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/64842/f-zero-returns-today-as-the-next-99-player-title

During this morning's Nintendo Direct presentation, the next 99-player online game was revealed as F-ZERO 99, featuring SNES-style visuals. The game is exclusive to Nintendo Switch Online members, and it sees new gameplay mechanics added to enhance the experience. These include a Power Meter that not only represents your health but also can be used to offer a temporary boost of speed. Collisions between cars will generate Super Sparks that can be collected to create a path to the Skyway, a special shortcut above the track that can give you the time and space to get ahead of the pack.

F-ZERO 99 is launching today on the Switch eShop, but you may want to enjoy it while it lasts. As we've seen with Pac-Man 99 and Super Mario Bros. 35, these types of online games don't seem to have an overly long shelf life.


Offline Ian Sane

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2023, 11:39:09 AM »
We haven't had a new F-Zero in 20 years and this is what we get?  I'm getting Federation Force vibes here, where a franchise with a cult following gets ignored for years and then finally shows up again with a spinoff instead of a proper sequel.  I'm not even on NSO so I can't play it.

Not that this specific game is necessarily a bad idea, it's just the PR of it.  Make a new F-Zero game and then later this or even a remake of an F-Zero alongside it and it's fine.  But instead it's like you didn't give the fans what they asked for but act like you did, which pisses them off more.  Spin-offs are for healthy franchises that get regular releases, not dormant franchises where each release is an event.

Offline Adrock

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2023, 02:25:58 PM »
Not even an F-Zero fan, but this looks really fun. The draw for me here isn't F-Zero. Rather, the chaos of playing with so many people. I love the 99-series.

There's a hotly rumored remaster of F-Zero GX. I was more surprised it wasn't announced alongside F-Zero 99. Maybe it's a Switch 2 game.


Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2023, 06:03:17 PM »
We haven't had a new F-Zero in 20 years and this is what we get?  I'm getting Federation Force vibes here, where a franchise with a cult following gets ignored for years and then finally shows up again with a spinoff instead of a proper sequel.  I'm not even on NSO so I can't play it.

Not that this specific game is necessarily a bad idea, it's just the PR of it.  Make a new F-Zero game and then later this or even a remake of an F-Zero alongside it and it's fine.  But instead it's like you didn't give the fans what they asked for but act like you did, which pisses them off more.  Spin-offs are for healthy franchises that get regular releases, not dormant franchises where each release is an event.

What fans though?  The reason F-Zero hasn't had a game in 20 years is because the original on the SNES was by far the best selling game in the franchise and every sequel, sold worse and worse.  The original SNES game sold close to 3 million copies, while the N64 sequel barely passed 1 million, despite the N64 game being a huge upgrade in players and content.  Then you have GX which has even more content, and was obviously very expensive to make, sell even less.  It was one of the few Nintendo games on the Gamecube that couldn't even cross the one million mark.  Then you get the two GBA games based off the anime which were two of the worst selling Nintendo games of all time.

So an actual new game had no chance of realistically happening.  It was always either going to be a remaster of GX, or something like this.  I'd argue that something like F-Zero 99 is a much better way of getting people interested in the series then a remaster of GX.  F-Zero 99 allows 99 people to race at once in fast paced races that can end in people dying, or even killing their fellow racers is going to bring a lot more attention, especially with videogame streamers that have millions of views.  This is going to cause a lot more people who've never played an F-Zero before to become interested and try this out.

In comparison an F-Zero GX remaster would have been lucky if it could even get a dozen racers online, and that's assuming Nintendo would even be willing to spend the money on adding online play to such a remaster for a game that didn't sell that well back in the day.  Outside of people with Gamecube nostalgia, an F-Zero GX remaster would not have gotten the attention that F-Zero 99 will probably have in the future once more word of mouth gets out.

Seriously, anyone that wants a new F-Zero should be happy that F-Zero 99 now exist.  If it's successful enough then maybe Nintendo might seriously consider making a new game, because otherwise they have no reason to. 
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2023, 01:12:19 AM »
What fans though?  The reason F-Zero hasn't had a game in 20 years is because the original on the SNES was by far the best selling game in the franchise and every sequel, sold worse and worse.  The original SNES game sold close to 3 million copies, while the N64 sequel barely passed 1 million, despite the N64 game being a huge upgrade in players and content.  Then you have GX which has even more content, and was obviously very expensive to make, sell even less.  It was one of the few Nintendo games on the Gamecube that couldn't even cross the one million mark.  Then you get the two GBA games based off the anime which were two of the worst selling Nintendo games of all time.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whhhoooaaaaa! First, the SNES game had a partial advantage of being a launch title with the SNES. I don't know how many copies Nintendo made of that game but, back around 2003 or 2004, I was able to buy a still shrinkwrapped Player's Choice copy of the game for 0.10 off eBay because the demand wasn't there for the title unlike other SNES stuff. How did so many copies of that game still end up being for sale new at that time? I don't know but it may have been that people could pick them up cheap later on in the system's life adding to those sales numbers and make it the "best-selling" title in the series.

As for F-Zero GX, word on the street was that it crossed 1.5 million and this knowledge came about 5 years ago from Nagoshi himself. Here's Nintendo Life's article in which he states it at that amount and being proud of the sales for it. F-Zero GX also made the list of Player's Choice games on the GameCube and had some copies made with the yellow branding which meant it was at least a million seller. Considering GameCube console sales were much lower compared to SNES and most other Nintendo consoles, the fact that GX did about half the SNES sales is actually a positive thing showing why the demand is there for a follow-up entry.

As for the GBA games, first there was Maximum Velocity (which was not based off any F-Zero anime but you probably weren't referring to that one). However, it should be commented on because it is its own weird thing. It goes back to the 2D racing after having 3D from X. Much like how Mario Kart Super Circuit just doesn't cut it after MK64, MV just isn't that great by going back to the SNES look and feel. Even weirder, the game takes place 25 years after the days the SNES F-Zero so it doesn't have Captain Falcon or Samurai Gorah as playable options but rather a whole new cast of characters. Pretty much all the race tracks are different worlds/places from the commonly used stuff. None of these characters and most of these track names are never used again in any F-Zero game which makes it a bit weird to call it that. Imagine Mario Kart that supposedly takes place in the future so you've got brand new characters you've never seen before racing in completely different worlds. Maybe the gameplay is similar but it just seems wrong.

F-Zero: GP Legend is based off the F-Zero anime and is the game that I shoulder most blame on for "killing" the series or at least keeping the series dormant for so long. I guess Nintendo hoped to capitalize on the anime that was done and the positive reception of GX and AX which led to them releasing another F-Zero game on the GBA but it was a poorly timed decision. First, if the anime played in the West, I never saw it on TV or knew about it until way after the GBA games were no longer on the shelves. Second, did the GBA really need a second 2D F-Zero racing game? No system had ever had two F-Zero games before. Did Nintendo really think this was going to explode? You had Maximum Velocity in 2001. F-Zero GX in 2003 and that same year in Japan (and 2004 worldwide) they then release another 2D F-Zero game. What was the market research that led them to this conclusion? Metroid doing alright with a sudden flood of titles? It's disappointing the game tanked but not that surprising either. It's like what killed Rock Band / Guitar Hero. Sudden oversaturation. Incredibly, Nintendo allowed a THIRD GBA F-Zero game to be made but F-Zero Climax only stayed in Japan ensuring it would be the most dismal selling of them all. (But maybe we'll see it ported on the GBA NSO yet!).

I sort of feel like I've become a big, if not THE, F-Zero guy on these forums over the years because of my love for GX and commenting on the series a lot. But it's not even in my top ten favorite Nintendo series. (Although not having had new entries for over 15 some years no doubt assists in  keeping it down my personal list). But the reason I'm so passionate about wanting another entry is basically because of my love for one game in the series and that is the GX GameCube game. It's possible this is a StarFox situation. Most people feel that series peaked with StarFox 64 and has been unable to figure out what to do since then. Perhaps it is the same with GX and that will be the high point of the series with no where else to go but I keep hoping it isn't. Mario Kart keeps going and while there can be some new features added in here and there to advance it, the main thing is that it has new courses to race on. To me, that's all F-Zero needs. Even if it keeps coping the GX formula, I'm just looking for new tracks to race on. It can't be that hard to come up with that aspect, can it?

F-Zero X is alright but it is a bit rough compared to GX so it's been harder for me to care as much about it. F-Zero SNES is about the only 2D F-Zero title I'll still play around with but I've also never owned a copy of F-Zero GP Legend to judge it accurately. My problem with F-Zero SNES is how it basic it feels. There's no 2 player mode. It's just the 4 racers to choose from. You've got three Cups to race in and that's about it. It's launch title / early SNES development days are apparant. And yet, I'd still choose to play that game over Super Mario Kart. SMK just feels wrong and obsolete now to me. F-Zero SNES still has a bit of the feel of its later entries and its speed and precision angling still give you that F-Zero vibe. There was a time when I was waiting for Mop it up to join me for an NSO SNES game session and she was surprised to see me play F-Zero SNES while killing time waiting for her. She didn't think anyone was still interested in played that game. Perhaps just by doing that, I really am the biggest F-Zero fan on these forums.  ;D
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2023, 01:50:08 AM »
So an actual new game had no chance of realistically happening.  It was always either going to be a remaster of GX, or something like this.  I'd argue that something like F-Zero 99 is a much better way of getting people interested in the series then a remaster of GX.  F-Zero 99 allows 99 people to race at once in fast paced races that can end in people dying, or even killing their fellow racers is going to bring a lot more attention, especially with videogame streamers that have millions of views.  This is going to cause a lot more people who've never played an F-Zero before to become interested and try this out.

In comparison an F-Zero GX remaster would have been lucky if it could even get a dozen racers online, and that's assuming Nintendo would even be willing to spend the money on adding online play to such a remaster for a game that didn't sell that well back in the day.  Outside of people with Gamecube nostalgia, an F-Zero GX remaster would not have gotten the attention that F-Zero 99 will probably have in the future once more word of mouth gets out.

Seriously, anyone that wants a new F-Zero should be happy that F-Zero 99 now exist.  If it's successful enough then maybe Nintendo might seriously consider making a new game, because otherwise they have no reason to. 

While after starting to hear rumblings of an F-Zero GX Remaster for the past 2 Directs and what seemed to be a legit leak that something F-Zero related was happening for this Direct, I'd finally gotten my hopes up a bit for this Direct. I'll take an F-Zero GX Remaster at this point because I do think it would become the best selling title in the franchise due to the Switch install base and years of word of mouth since its release about how good it is. I'm sure there'd be many new gamers who'd check it out. Of course, a brand new 3D game would be a far better surprise.

The one thing I didn't want was another 2D entry. Please don't let it be a mistake that bad. When the F-Zero video came up showing the SNES 2D look, I was ready to start letting the expletives fly but, when it quickly became clear this was a new 99 type idea, and then I was like "well, that actually could work out ok...". It seemed like it took some of what helped make GX a better entry like spinning into rival cars to try and crash or destroy them and added it to the original formula. I also wondered if I might do pretty well at the game since I've still given F-Zero SNES a spin during the years.

In regards to the last paragraph, I do hope that F-Zero 99 can help create some interest in demand for an actual new entry. Yet, having played it, I can see the potential for this being a big hot burning flame that soon dies out because it unfortunately still has the SNES limitations to it. By that, I'm referring to the fact that it only has four vehicles to choose from and that it only has the 15 SNES courses to play on. I'm not sure what the numbers are like for Mario Kart 8 online play but I would think it is a highly successful online game for Nintendo and in general. I would also suspect part of what gives it such longevity and continuous play is the number of character and vehicle choices along with the large amount of tracks to play on which Nintendo has been continuously adding to now for the past year just about doubling the content of the game.

From the trailer in the Direct, I thought perhaps there was a bunch of the other racers featured in X and GX because it seemed like there were a whole bunch of different vehicles on the track. I see now that is just some of the cosmetic customization options being offered to the original 4 vehicles that made it seem that way. That's been kind of disappointing. Part of me hopes that maybe there will be an update in the future to add more racers but I'm not that hopeful about it. As for the tracks, I guess they'll be rotating things around at various points but, so far, there's been no option to play all the different tracks in the game. I've been unable to see less than half so far. After awhile, it gets a bit boring to be on the same 5 tracks or so, over and over.

The big event is the Grand Prix but you have to wait every two hours for a chance at it. That's also been a bit disappointing. It's the part I've liked the most but I've only been able to get three cracks at it because of that limitation. There's only a ten minute window to enter the event so you gotta set everything else if you want to play it. Wish it was a bit more frequent as I think that's what has the best chance of giving this game some legs to last for awhile.

If Nintendo does increase the frequency of the GP mode, adds in some more vehicles and goes so far as to add in another three cups (surely all those GBA 2D courses could finally have some use now) then this could turn out to be a top entry in the series yet. It's close to something special but it feels like it is being held back because Nintendo probably didn't want to put too much money into it out of fear of the franchise's possible reception.

On a quick personal note, I have been disappointed to find that my SNES 2D skills are nothing special. I have yet to finish first in any race although there have been times where I've been in first place and leading for awhile. Best I've done so far is 4th place. I've also yet to complete a Grand Prix. I keep ranking out near the end of the 4th circuit of Death Wind. Not sure why I keep falling behind in that race and ranking out. The last one I played was further heartbreaking because I had placed 10th on Big Blue and then 7th on Sand Ocean so I was feeling really good about my playing and then ended up ranked out around 32. Gah! I just want to unlock Silence at least.

Well, I guess I'll get one more crack at it in a few minutes here.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2023, 12:06:55 PM »
It's nice to see the forum's biggest F-Zero guy in here laying down a history lesson.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2023, 05:25:06 PM »
How can gamers today hope to play a game like Tears of the Kingdom if they don't know their F-ZERO HISTORY?!?!?

Kids these days...
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2023, 05:37:10 PM »
As for F-Zero GX, word on the street was that it crossed 1.5 million and this knowledge came about 5 years ago from Nagoshi himself. Here's Nintendo Life's article in which he states it at that amount and being proud of the sales for it. F-Zero GX also made the list of Player's Choice games on the GameCube and had some copies made with the yellow branding which meant it was at least a million seller. Considering GameCube console sales were much lower compared to SNES and most other Nintendo consoles, the fact that GX did about half the SNES sales is actually a positive thing showing why the demand is there for a follow-up entry.

Either that interview mistranslated how much it sold or Nagoshi confused the games numbers with a different game, because Nintendo's own internal sales numbers have the game below one million.

https://www.installbaseforum.com/forums/threads/nintendo-software-and-hardware-sales-data-from-1983-to-present.170/

This is a list of all Nintendo million sellers as of June 2023, straight from Nintendo's Public Relationship Department and GX never crossed the million mark worldwide.  The only F-Zero games to do that where as follows.

SNES - 2.85 million
X - 1.10 million
Maximum Velocity - 1.05 million

Now that same Nintendolife article says it's source is a thread on ResetEra.  If you go to the thread on Reset Era where the source is from, somebody on that thread says the last numbers we had from places like NPD in America and Media Create had GX at only 338k in America and 80k in Japan.  They also say it did 99k in Europe but no source on that.  The NPD and Media Create numbers are accurate since during the mid to late 2000's, NPD wasn't has harsh on leaks like they would become years later so people on Neo Gaf would report the North American number for games all the time and I remember F-Zero GX were somewhere over 300k, so only 338k in America sounds right.

So best case scenario, GX only did over 500k wordwide, which for a game as expensive to make as GX is not very good.  Yes it was on the Gamecube which underperformed, but look at other mid-tier Nintendo series back on it.

Metroid Prime - 2.84 million
Star Fox Adventure - 1.82 million
Pikmin - 1.6 million
Pikmin 2 - 1.12 million
Metroid Prime 2 - 1.10 million

For a game like GX, it was critically acclaimed and well loved by the people who played it.  So why did it fail to sell anywhere close to other similar Nintendo franchises?  Nintendo did all they could to make this series more popular and it didn't work.  This is why F-Zero died while Metroid, Star Fox and Pikmin all got new installments after the Gamecube era.
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Offline M.K.Ultra

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Re: F-ZERO Returns Today as the Next 99-player Title
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2023, 10:36:13 AM »
I played my first grand prix last night and it was quite fun. I recommend folks at least go that far in the game as the single races were not as engrossing as the grand prix.