Topic: Official Sales Thread

[Ymeegod]

Actually nintendo's selling it at a loss with the recent price drop:
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"Nintendo will now make a loss on every 3DS unit it sells following today's price cut announcement, according to Bloomberg Japan.
 
The report, translated by Andriasang, doesn't offer any hard figures to illustrate just how big a hit the platform holder will take per console.
 
A Eurogamer investigation earlier this year pegged the cost of 3DS raw materials at around $101. Considering the new US price is expected to be $169.99, that means marketing, labour, packaging and distribution costs exceed $70 per system."

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Doesn't state how much of an loss but I imagine it isn't even $10/console.  Sony Vita's is going be another story since that's going be selling at an loss right out of the gate (also why i don't expect an major price reduction because Sony really can't afford a pricewar).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I thought there was another comment by Iwata regarding the pricecut?

or maybe I'm just imagining it, but that's why I made it clear that I wasn't sure and might be mis-remembering.

pre-post edit: I think I was remembering some paraphrasing of this quote from the Inv. Meeiting

As for our Nintendo 3DS, the hardware markdown has resulted in a huge loss in this fiscal year. However, as we are going ahead with gradual cost-cutting efforts, from a profit standpoint, improvements are expected to be made in the next fiscal year.

which I remembered as a loss of overall profits...

[Chozo Ghost]

I am really surprised at Sony's arrogance with the Vita. I thought for sure after the problems they had with the PS3 they would have learned that power isn't everything. Oh well. Looks like yet another handheld generation dominated by Nintendo.

[broodwars]

I am really surprised at Sony's arrogance with the Vita. I thought for sure after the problems they had with the PS3 they would have learned that power isn't everything. Oh well. Looks like yet another handheld generation dominated by Nintendo.

The thing is, I don't think the power here is the problem.  Sony's failing in Japan because the device's mandatory accessories (the memory cards) are exorbitantly expensive and the lineup of games is not must-have for the Japanese audience.  Unfortunately, even with Uncharted (which has never been a mega seller no matter how much Sony pushes it) I don't think there are NA must-haves in the North American launch lineup either.  From my perspective, I don't see a game that really piques my interest until probably the Vita Resistance game, and that's based on my love for Resistance 3 rather than the actual game.

You would really think, though, that after the PSP failed to find an audience before Monster Hunter released, Sony might have ensured they had software that would move units.  And after the spectacular failure of UMD, you'd think they'd have made their proprietary memory cards more affordable since you HAVE to have them if you want to play the best games (and download games, including PSP games) on the Vita.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That's exactly why they were so expensive. You HAVE to buy them.

if it was optional and you could do without it or had a better alternative, then I'm sure they would have been much cheaper, but since you need it.... it's kinda like popcorn & drinks at the movies. Of course you're gonna buy it... it's not like you can leave once you come in.
So once you've bought your PSV and your games "gotcha bitch" is the game Sony decided to play.

But truth is sometimes I think that Sony just doesn't get it. They have made some good efforts in making compelling games, but they are only making those efforts to push more tech. If they could sell the hardware without investing a dime into actual gaming software, then I think they would be much happier, but since you need to have your in-house software differentiate your hardware from the comptetition in order to sell the hardware in the first place.....

Nintendo is the complete opposite. They create the hardware to support the games that they want to make. and thank the ancient astronauts that a company like Sony got in the mix to push the hardware side of things, because who knows where we would be right now without them (& MS).

[Chozo Ghost]

I can't see the Vita having a lot of exclusive games on it. Software sales will be mediocre at best, and given that the Vita probably has a high development cost what 3rd party developers will want to do is port the games over to other systems (namely the consoles, but possibly the 3DS and mobile platforms as well). Even Sony themselves will probably do this, because if you look at the PSP they already have. A lot of PSP exclusives like the God of War games were later ported to the PS3, so what reason is there to think the Vita will be any different?

So at best with the Vita you have a PS3/PS4 which is portable and therefore you can take it anywhere, but it will have little or nothing that is exclusive to it that can't also be played on the PS3/PS4 on a much larger screen. The system I think this is most analogous to is the Sega Nomad, which was a portable Genesis. The Nomad played all the Genesis games, but offered nothing of its own that was exclusive. So the only reason to own the Nomad was for the portability, and that's exactly what I'm seeing with the Vita also.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That's the thing, Sony already tried the portable console thing and it didn't work out so well.
Yeah, they sold 65million PSPs, but that's mostly as a portable pirate media player. Software sales for 95% of the titles were pretty poor.

But the real applause should go to Nintendo for cutting Sony off at the knees in Japan by not only cutting the price, but launching SM3DL, MK7 & MH3G all as a lead up to the PSV launch. Just securing PSPs biggest title as a 3DS (timed?) exclusive (MH3G & MH4)was a very aggressive thing to do. Let's hope Nintendo has a follow-up performance for the Euro and U.S. launches too.

[Ymeegod]

The tie-ratio for any handheld isn't all that great, DS was 5/system and PSP was 3.75/system (which didn't include digital downloads).  The had two different charts for software, on avg the DS was 160k/game where as the PSP was 130K/game however if you look at 3rd party sales the PSP actually scored higher than the DS's.

As for the developement costs of the Vita is actually lowered becaues they share the same files as the PS3 version, making porting the games rather easy vs 3DS where you have to redo just about the entire game.  Sure you might not get exclusives that way but at least it shouldn't suffer the same "drought" as the PSP did (droughts and poor controls is what killed the PSP in the West).

As for Vita software sales, you have to figure alot more people are turning to digital downloads, especially since Sony's releasing them at launch with reduce prices already in store.  Not sure if they plan on doing that stateside or how much of a difference we are talking about but if it's $10+ difference I'll be buying digital as well (though you can't sell digital copies so you might be better of with a physical copy if intend to trade them).

I'm still waiting to see if they plan on combining the software packages, Sony already talked about DLC packs being shared but I'm hopefully to see some software packs as well or at least give me an discount for buying both versions (PS3/vita).--most likely an Dream but hell they CAN do that if they are smart.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah, they sold 65million PSPs,

When I read that I couldn't believe it, so I went to Wikipedia to make sure and they say it has sold 71.4 million. That just completely blows my mind.

[Chozo Ghost]

As for the developement costs of the Vita is actually lowered becaues they share the same files as the PS3 version, making porting the games rather easy

I wasn't talking about porting games from the PS3 to the Vita, I was talking about games being outright developed for it. How would having the same files as the PS3 help a brand new original game to be developed?

[Ymeegod]

Same files means you can have the same models for your characters without having to redo everything, uncharted for example since it's already out.  It's an huge shortcut that can cut developement time down to almost nothing.  It's one big advantage sony has going for it. 

[UncleBob]

The tie-ratio for any handheld isn't all that great, DS was 5/system and PSP was 3.75/system (which didn't include digital downloads).

Curious - how recent are these numbers?  While I can believe the PSP number simply because the two people I know who owned a PSP each had one game and a bunch of emulators, the DS number seems... low.  I know I'm an exception, but, really?  Only five games?  Who could have a DS and be satisfied with only five of the games that are out there...

[ejamer]

Is piracy on PSP really that much worse than on DS?  Between that and the fact that many DS units are purchased for kids who only end up owning a small handful of games, I can believe the low tie ratio.


What I found more surprising was the 160k/game:130k/game ratio for DS:PSP.  Seems like with the DS install base being so large and having a better tie ratio, DS games should sell a lot more on average.  (Then again, considering how much low-end shovelware exists on DS that barely moves any copies, maybe this shouldn't be a surprise.)

[ejamer]

Actually nintendo's selling it at a loss with the recent price drop:
------------------------------------------
"Nintendo will now make a loss on every 3DS unit it sells following today's price cut announcement, according to Bloomberg Japan.
 
The report, translated by Andriasang, doesn't offer any hard figures to illustrate just how big a hit the platform holder will take per console.
 
A Eurogamer investigation earlier this year pegged the cost of 3DS raw materials at around $101. Considering the new US price is expected to be $169.99, that means marketing, labour, packaging and distribution costs exceed $70 per system."

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Doesn't state how much of an loss but I imagine it isn't even $10/console.  Sony Vita's is going be another story since that's going be selling at an loss right out of the gate (also why i don't expect an major price reduction because Sony really can't afford a pricewar).

Take into account that 3DS consoles have been on sale over the holidays for between $130-140 and Nintendo surely took a loss. Seems like a worthwhile hit in the long run though, as long as 3DS continues to gain acceptance and support.

[marty]

...

Nintendo is the complete opposite.

I agree with a lot of what you said except for the fact that Nintendo is pushing 3D tech.  Worse, 3D, unlike motion controls, is really just a gimmick for now.  Maybe there are games that could only be done in 3d but Nintendo sure hasn't made them yet.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Swapnote in 3D is fun.

In SM3DL, the 3D helped out from time to time.

But yes, the 3D is merely a gimmick at this point, but Nintendo included it for the games, not because they really wanted to sell us expensive 3D TV's w/ expensive 3D glasses or to get us to purchase their movie studios 3D movies.
But the 3D in the 3DS is much like the motion controls for the Wii in that it may not add much to many games, but it can be very nice for the ones that it does.

[Ymeegod]

Piracy is just as bad on an DS then an PSP.  Flash carts are so freaking common now (R4 for one) and DS file size were so small (128mb standard--a few 256mb games) that you can easily download and fit dozen of games on 2GB mSD.
Nintendo's taken steps with the 3DS and has stated that it will ban/brick systems in the future. 

[TJ Spyke]

The tie-ratio for any handheld isn't all that great, DS was 5/system and PSP was 3.75/system (which didn't include digital downloads).

Curious - how recent are these numbers?  While I can believe the PSP number simply because the two people I know who owned a PSP each had one game and a bunch of emulators, the DS number seems... low.  I know I'm an exception, but, really?  Only five games?  Who could have a DS and be satisfied with only five of the games that are out there...

Kind of hard to get an exact number, but it's at least 5.6 for the DS. As of September 30, 2011, the system sold 149 million. As of March 31, 2011, DS software sales were at 839.48 million (so that is 6 months of missing software sales numbers, which would slightly raise the tie ratio). You have to remember that a lot of people own multiple DS systems, which may skew the tie-ratio down since someone owning both a DS Lite and a DSi (for example) would likely not own multiple copies of the same game; so a person with 2 DS systems and 8 games would have a ratio of 4:1 rather than 8:1.

[Shaymin]

My personal DS tie ratio would be 17.25... and I suspect I'm low on that metric. Then again, I had 4 DSs and traded 3 of them.

[broodwars]

But truth is sometimes I think that Sony just doesn't get it. They have made some good efforts in making compelling games, but they are only making those efforts to push more tech. If they could sell the hardware without investing a dime into actual gaming software, then I think they would be much happier, but since you need to have your in-house software differentiate your hardware from the comptetition in order to sell the hardware in the first place.....

Nintendo is the complete opposite. They create the hardware to support the games that they want to make. and thank the ancient astronauts that a company like Sony got in the mix to push the hardware side of things, because who knows where we would be right now without them (& MS).

Eh, I really don't agree with that.  For a company devoted only to "pushing more tech", they've been pretty open to experimentation and development of new IPs (and titles that really don't push the tech), far more than Nintendo has in any case.  Sure, they have their God of Wars or Uncharteds that scream "buy an expensive new TV", but then you have stuff like Flower (which, while not made by them, was a heavily-pushed PSN exclusive); Heavy Rain; the Team Ico games; etc.  Then you have some older franchises that don't really push the power of the console like Sly Cooper; Ratchet & Clank; Resistance; etc.  It seems to me if all they wanted to do was push the tech of their games, there would be a lot more games on their systems that push it and a lot fewer risky titles.

I think Sony's just in a position where they're trying to sell themselves as two complementing halves: a big games publisher and an electronics juggernaut.  Meanwhile, Nintendo only has a games division, so they don't have to emphasize graphical capability so much.  The constant marketing for whatever tech gimmick Sony wants to push can be annoying, but no more than I already have to put up with from Nintendo and motion control/"glasses free 3D"/etc.  I like the games, so I put up with it, and the same goes for Nintendo.

[UncleBob]

Take into account that 3DS consoles have been on sale over the holidays for between $130-140 and Nintendo surely took a loss.

I highly doubt that Nintendo took any additional losses on hardware based on any individual retailer sales.

Piracy is just as bad on an DS then an PSP.  Flash carts are so freaking common now (R4 for one) and DS file size were so small (128mb standard--a few 256mb games) that you can easily download and fit dozen of games on 2GB mSD.

I'd argue this on two points.  First, piracy on a PSP doesn't require any special hardware...  Depending on the situation, you can hack it with some simple software.  Piracy on the DS *requires* dedicated hardware.  Thus, inherently, this is "harder".

Secondly, look at the audiences - most younger kids(/their parents) aren't quite as likely to hack their console to play bootleg games.  Teenagers is probably a mixed bag and it's probably more likely with adults.
Now, look at who owns DS systems and who owns PSP systems.  I've only ever seen one kid in the wild playing a PSP... I see kids playing a DS all the time.  While I see older folks playing DS systems a lot, I virtually *only* seen adults playing a PSP.

Obviously, I don't have any hard-core numbers, but my guess if there was some real way to look into it, we'd find piracy worse on the PSP.  Even hard-core, anti-piracy folks are known for hacking their PSP to play ROMs.

You have to remember that a lot of people own multiple DS systems, which may skew the tie-ratio down since someone owning both a DS Lite and a DSi (for example) would likely not own multiple copies of the same game

>.>
<.<

They're doing it wrong then.

My personal DS tie ratio would be 17.25... and I suspect I'm low on that metric. Then again, I had 4 DSs and traded 3 of them.

That's an interesting point you and TJ brought up.  The tie-in ratio for my household (not including my 3DS/3DS titles) is only 24.4:1... Looking at it that way, it's a *lot* lower than I expected mine to be.

[Ymeegod]

TJ Nintendo counts hardware/software bundles, hense the difference. 

[TJ Spyke]

Wouldn't that INCREASE the tie-ratio though? Because that is starting off those sold DS systems with 1 game right there.

[Ymeegod]

"Secondly, look at the audiences - most younger kids(/their parents) aren't quite as likely to hack their console to play bootleg games.  Teenagers is probably a mixed bag and it's probably more likely with adults"

Which is very true, that why DS mature games sell so poorly as well as the PSP.  Nintendo has the advantage since it does have a larger younger audience but if you look at DS's core games you'll notice they have CRAPPY sale figures. 

As for special hardware?  R4 flash carts are just as easy to get as ordering anything else online and you don't have to mod the DS for it to work.  There's plenty of sites that sell/help/even install the freaking things for you. 
   
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Piracy, killed the DC, killing the PC's, and it's getting worse IMO.  Won't be to long before the consoles/handhelds get DMR and other crap that I hate.

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[Chozo Ghost]

Who could have a DS and be satisfied with only five of the games that are out there...

My guess is the tie in ratio is being hurt by all those nongamer casuals who bought it just for Brain Age or that Cooking Tutorial thing and nothing else.