Topic: The SNES 20

[Ian Sane]

I never understand the poo-pooing of DKC3. It was easily my favorite of the trilogy. DKC2 was partially hobbled by the stupid banana coin system, that required you to pay to save or change worlds.

As a kid I really hated DKC2's save system.  But I also really sucked at the game so by the time I got to the third world it was an accomplishment to beat any level and I did not have the luxury to wait until I accumulated coins.  It was common for me to lose progress because I couldn't save before a Game Over.  But I had the same problem with DKC1 to an extent as well.  In that game you cannot leave a world without using Funky Kong but you usually had to beat a few levels to access Funky for that world (or finding Candy to save).  So usually there was about three levels that had to be completed without getting a Game Over prior to saving and that was often a challenge.  One thing DKC3 really got right is that from the get go you can save after every level.

Super Mario World would not let you save after every level either.  It had key save points and we used to try to pick an easy castle or ghost house to return to to save after creating a new exit.  Saving in a console game was a pretty new idea still at that time (tons of games still used passwords) so I don't think they had quite figured it out.  It was like they felt they had to space these saves out or the game wouldn't be challenging or something like that.  By DKC3 and Yoshi's Island they realized that just saving after every level made sense.  It took a while for game devs to realize that the player wasn't their enemy and that game design didn't just involve stopping the player from succeeding at all costs.

[Mop it up]

I probably got too gay there at the end...

With a username like TrueNerd, you're allowed to make statements like that without sounding gay.

[TJ Spyke]

I've never played DKC 2 or 3. In fact the only DK games i've played were the original, DK Jr., DKC 1, and DKJB (I played a demo of King of Swing at Walmart, but didn't like it). I liked DKC, thought it was not one of my favorite SNES games and I never got anywhere near the end of it.

[Mop it up]

The worst thing about DKC2's save system is that the coins you collected weren't saved. The later levels can be pretty scarce with the coinage, and that's when you would need some. I also remember having to visit certain levels just to get some coins when I was going back through to get all the bonus rooms. It's the only blemish of the game, really.

Also, this thread needs more of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73n7HTcmb5g

It's definitely the best theme in the game, and one of the best pieces of music composed for the Super NES.

[Ian Sane]

I was trying to guess which track Mop would link to without clicking the link.  If it wasn't Brambles it was going to be Fear Factory or Aquatic Ambiance.  Those games had such good soundtracks that multiple songs could be in the running for best SNES music.  As a kid DKC3 disappointed me because the soundtrack is not as good.  There's a lot more forgettable stuff on it and the tracks loop sooner.

The SNES sound chip really adds to the legend of the system.  GBA ports of SNES games often have inferior sounding music.  The N64 didn't even have a sound chip!  The only sound chip that I think compares is the Amiga one.  It's hard to say which is better but those two are undoubtably at the top for chip tunes unless you specifically want beepy boopy NES sounds.  And the Genesis?  Someone once described Genesis music as sounding like someone crushing a beer can.  Streets of Rage is an obvious exception.

Hell, I often find when playing arcade games in MAME or in collections that the music is worse than that of the SNES port.

[Mop it up]

I thought Fear Factory was the name of the stage that Mining Melancholy was heard since I forget the stage name, but I looked it up and found it was from DKC1. I recognized that one from DKCReturns actually, and it is pretty good, though I like the mine one more. Another one which stood out to me is Hot Head Hop. I've never been a fan of the water theme, it's a little too calm.

The SNES sound quality is pretty amazing. There aren't many Nintendo 64 games that sound better, and I don't think the GBA even compares. I looked up the GBA version of DKC2 on YouTube, and the music for Bramble Blast is a lot worse. I'd actually rather listen to the original Game Boy's rendition of it even though the sound quality is a lot worse!

[Luigi Dude]

The SNES legendary sound chip was made by Sony and designed by Ken Kutagari himself.  This is why the GBA had worse audio because Kutagari did such an amazing job designing the SNES sound chip that it was impossible for Nintendo to emulate it on GBA's hardware since Kutagari and Sony were now Nintendo's biggest competition.

Kind of funny how these things turn out.

[Dasmos]

Just want to throw this out there: The All-stars + World combo wasn't an United States exclusive. Don't know where you got that infor from.

Also Rare ruined Donkey Kong. I'm glad that Nintendo basically disregarded everything they had done when they made Jungle Beat.

[TJ Spyke]

Donkey Kong was a dormant character when Rare got him. He had done nothing but cameo appearances (like being in the crowd in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!!) for about 10 years. They introduced the current DK (see TheMushroomKingdom.net for the whole situation on whether Cranky Kong is the original DK) and gave us Diddy Kong, among others.

[Shaymin]

I remember 1995 being the time they introduced Epic Center into Nintendo Power, and given that you had the Eartbound->Chrono Trigger double shot that summer I don't blame them.

[Retro Deckades]

I love this feature, but I would also love to see a feature on 20 SNES hidden gems. We are all aware of the games that put the SNES on the map, but what about all of the lesser known games that people turned to when they finished with the Super Mario Worlds and Earthbounds which were unexpectedly awesome as well.

[Dasmos]

Donkey Kong was a dormant character when Rare got him. He had done nothing but cameo appearances (like being in the crowd in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!!) for about 10 years. They introduced the current DK (see TheMushroomKingdom.net for the whole situation on whether Cranky Kong is the original DK) and gave us Diddy Kong, among others.

Yeah, I know. It doesn't mean it was a good thing. The DKC games were bland, ugly platformers that are grossly overrated and don't get me started on Donkey Kong 64. On the flipside the two last Donkey Kong platformers have been amazing. Tokyo EAD and Retro pumped some much needed creativity into the games and made them fun again.

[NWR_insanolord]

EAD Tokyo and Retro are probably the two best development studios in the industry right now. As much as people like to look back on Rare fondly, they were never that.

For what it's worth, I love DKC 2, but it's nothing compared to Returns. I really need to get around to playing Jungle Beat.

[NWR_pap64]

EAD Tokyo and Retro are probably the two best development studios in the industry right now. As much as people like to look back on Rare fondly, they were never that.

For what it's worth, I love DKC 2, but it's nothing compared to Returns. I really need to get around to playing Jungle Beat.

Ironically, Retro does NOTHING for me. Metroid Prime bored the hell out of me, and DKC Returns tried TOO hard with its levels, making them more frustrating than fun to play.


EAD Tokyo, however, can have my money any day of the week, they deserve it. Underrated development house to be honest.

[NWR_insanolord]

I might call DKCR the best 2D platformer since Super Mario Bros. 3*, which, as I believe I've already said in this thread, is my favorite game ever.


*Remember, that's coming from someone who played it with a Classic Controller, which I'd imagine removes a lot of frustration.

[NWR_pap64]

I might call DKCR the best 2D platformer since Super Mario Bros. 3*, which, as I believe I've already said in this thread, is my favorite game ever.


*Remember, that's coming from someone who played it with a Classic Controller, which I'd imagine removes a lot of frustration.

Definitely. The controls were part of the turn off, and I didn't even mind motion controls in New Super Mario Bros. Wii

[Dasmos]

And I would call Jungle Beat the best 2D platformer since Super Mario World, which is my favourite game of all-time.

[Retro Deckades]

As someone who highly anticipated and was not let down by the original DKC back in the day, I find it hard to believe that someone would say that Rare handled that character poorly.

[Dasmos]

Look at DK64, the game has almost as many useless characters as a Sonic game.

[Retro Deckades]

I will give you DK64, Dasmos. Even such a huge Donkey Kong fan as I was disappointed with that game. However, the original DKC games brought a forgotten character back to the forefront. The worlds we varied and interesting, and the music for the Country series was excellent. The levels themselves weren't quite as good as something like Super Mario World, but they offered an exploration aspect for those who were driven to complete the game. The cast of enemy characters wasn't amazing, but DK's enemies have never blown our mind, even to this day. I am a person who enjoys platforming games, and DKC and its sequel (and even the sequel's sequel, to an extent) were very enjoyable for me. Granted, DKCR is much more sophisticated in several ways (I think it has the most crazy-fun levels in a 2D platformer that I have played), but I still think that Rare's games were excellent in their day, and that shouldn't be forgotten. The graphics may not hold up as well, but I really don't find them difficult to look at, and the platforming is still fun, if not slightly primitive.

[MagicCow64]

Yeah, people have made a good point: Jungle Beat might be the best 2D platformer since SMB3. It's hard to even describe how great that game is, and is all the more impressive in that EAD managed somehow to completely redeem the useless bongo accessory. And the bongos are the only way to play that game.

[MagicCow64]

Don't mean to spam this thread, but I want to voice a long-held frustration.

I remember going bonkers when Yoshi's Island was released, because my parents wouldn't buy it, and none of my friends had it, and the local video store didn't stock it, and thus I never got to play it. Years later I finally played through it using . . . certain means, and I kind of hated it. I was compelled to complete everything (all stars on every level, red coins, whathaveyou), but I didn't enjoy it at all. It was a never-ending marathon of stress as you tried to manage the baby and the star meter, as well as finding all the collectibles. And turning Yoshi into trains and things is just a dumb idea conceptually. I actually like Yoshi's Story way more, as it is transcendentally bizarre visually, and shed the baby/star collecting element.

[NWR_pap64]

Alright, time to put in my two cents on the whole Rare/DKC debacle.


Whether you agree with it or not, Rare DID bring back the franchise into the limelight. Nintendo wasn't doing much with him at the time, except the occasional spin-off game (like DK 94), and was mainly a bad guy Mario saw at the end of each level. Sure, everyone remembered Donkey Kong, the GAME, but not THE CHARACTER. Mario was the one remembered and celebrated.


Then came Donkey Kong Country and finally gave him the personality and presence he deserved. The game did wonders for his reputation. People who grew up with the original game suddenly remembered and liked this game, while those that played DKC suddenly appreciate the character and his own legacy.


The gameplay may not have been groundbreaking, but it worked. It was addictive, fun and easy to get into.


The sequels (minus 64) polished the game even further and now we had a great franchise to remember.


If it wasn't for Rare developing Donkey Kong Country, we wouldn't have DK as a playable character in all the spin-off games (Yes, I know we had DK Jr. on Super Mario Kart, but that was the Jr. version) and we wouldn't have gotten Jungle Blast and DKC Returns, the games EVERYONE loves to death.


Like it or not, Rare set the stepping stones for the character to follow, and what we got was something truly great in the end.


I won't argue that not everyone liked the games, just saying that credit should be given here.

[MegaByte]

I disagree slightly with that characterization. DK94 wasn't a spin-off, it was the beginning of the return of DK. DK94 was pushed quite heavily at the time, and it launched the Super Game Boy... there hadn't been any DK games for over 11 years before that. DK94 began the development of DK's personality, and it was the first game that gave him his characteristic tie (by Miyamoto). DKC followed only months after, and I don't question Rare's influence, but it wasn't developed in a vacuum.

[NWR_insanolord]

DK94 is also better than all the DKC games combined.