Topic: State of 3rd Party Address

[metaknight_Xaer0]

Will lets rant. I have been a fan of most 3rd party's like Konami and Capcom. This my be heresy but i wanted to disscuse the 3rd parties.

Konami had made some nice series including TMNT, Metal Gear, and Castlevania. They have been around since 1986 making Haunted Mansion with the granddaddy of Castlevania. Metal Gear has also been around since the MSX 1 and 2 and the NES. TMNT ever since the Comic Book and Movies were popular. Sure they have had there ups and downs like Castlevania 2 and most recently Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. Okay, great game with great options but wouldnt ya know that Konami threw out a lot of options that Silicon Knights' Dennis Dyack offered. Mostly time wouldnt allow it because the Release Date was set, I forgave them. But the options he wanted were special camera angles and radar functions for a Co-Op mode! Its all good until there were no ads or commercial for the game. Low sales didnt make Dyack too happy and the fact no ads didnt help the game either. Why was this? Well according to Komani ",They didn't wanta draw attention away from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater." WTF? Well, When approached by EGM #127, Dyrak said this ",If someone ports Metal Gear Solid 2 to the Cube, it won't be us." Well soon after this Silicon Knights become a 3rd party developer instead of 2nd Party. XBOX's version of MSG2: Sons of Liberty (MSG2: Substance) got much attention and say "Wasnt this also made at the sametime MGS3 was beening Developed?"

Next up Capcom....
and then i dont know maybe Sqare Enix, KOEI (after all, after 25 years were is the Nintendo support since the SNES), Atlus (just making less prints to make games RARE, even tho great games since the SNES),  SNK (hmm. hard to say anything about this one, what about them? for GC?), Tecmo, Technos (are the even around anymore, games like RiverCity Ransom, Techno Samurai, all thats Kiki Runo).

[evil intentions]

I'm not 100% correct but wasn't capcom the maker of Aladin for the Super Nintendo.  Crap that was my favorite game when I was a wee little lad.  

[Hostile Creation]

I always liked Little Nemo, for the NES.  Very cool game, though I had to cheat to ever beat it.  That game is damn tough.

[ThePerm]

i liked wizards and warriors by acclaim and rare..boy does that game kick the ass.

[Ian Sane]

"I'm not 100% correct but wasn't capcom the maker of Aladin for the Super Nintendo. Crap that was my favorite game when I was a wee little lad."

Yes they did and they're porting it to the GBA.

How odd that you don't mention Namco and Sega as upcoming "entries".  They're two of the first third parties I think of.

Here's my take on the major third parties in a few sentences apiece:

Sega: Each team seems to support their own console of choice.  Sonic Team and Amusement Vision like Nintendo, virtually no other Sega teams do.  The future: unknown since the Sammy merger may completely change their focus.

Capcom: Seems legitimately loyal to Nintendo as they've continued to support the Cube despite low sales.  Sure the PS2 gets more support but it also has a much larger userbase.  The future: Capcom has been buddy-buddy with Nintendo through it all and I think they'll continue to.  Capcom once said they only didn't support the N64 because of the cartridge issue and I believe them.

Namco: Has pledged a lot of support for Nintendo though the only major game they've delivered on so far is Soul Calibur II which is multiplatform.  However they are working on Star Fox and of course there's Tales of Symphonia.  Their interest however seems to be more to keep Sony from having too much power than straight devotion.  The future: Like Capcom I think they'll stick around for the near future.  It's clear they're worried about what would happen if Nintendo went under.

Square Enix: Virtually no interest in the Cube as they've released only one Cube title, a Final Fantasy title that is "FF" in name only and it appears that the one game was in exchange for the right to make GBA games.  Enix is also insistent in supporting the market leader alone.  The future: I think FFCC was a one time deal.  I expect no future SE Nintendo console games unless Nintendo sets something up specifically.

Konami: Very anti-Nintendo for reasons I don't understand.  metaknight said it perfectly.  The future: clearly doesn't care about Nintendo consoles and probably isn't even worth courting.

EA: Makes most of their titles multiplatform to get the most bang for their buck but has no real interest in the Cube, often giving it inferior ports.  The future: EA support will remain but the quality of it is dependant on how well one does in the North American market.

Ubisoft: The most consistent multiplatform developer as virtually everything is released on all three consoles while the quality remains reasonably high.  Still the Cube often gets the weakest port.  The future: like EA Ubisoft's support is dependant on console wars position.

No one else is really that significant.

I say the best thing for Nintendo to do is to keep up their practice of making specific deals with third parties to work on certain games.  They just need to tweak it a bit to ensure they fill the holes in their lineup.  That means using third party relations to create exclusive fighting games, first person shooters, RPGs and other genres that Nintendo is weak at on their own.  The best way to attractive third parties is to have a good sized userbase and the best way to get that is to have a balanced lineup.  And most important of all Nintendo has to ensure that they benefit from their deals.  That means when Konami or Square promises a Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy game they supply the real deal instead of a remake or a spinoff.  I also suggest Nintendo work closely with smaller third party devs with hardcore fanbases like Camelot and Treasure.  Then have them work on exclusive original content instead of using them for more Mario games.  If third parties just work on Nintendo franchise titles like Mario Golf or F-Zero GX, that realistic could have been made by Nintendo themselves, it won't accomplish anything.  There needs to be a difference between first and third party titles in order to attract a wider audience.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Actually ATLUS has been arround since the NES games, how do I know? I have a NES ATLUS game , the game is widget(the old old old cartoon).

[darknight06]

One thing to clear up, today's Million = Technos.

[joshnickerson]

I'm not sure what's up with Konami, unless they're still bitter about the NES days, which would make NO sense. Of course, I consider them a shadow of their former selves. They honestly haven't made any games that've interested me since the SNES days.  

[metaknight_Xaer0]

What can I say about Capcom, Ian Sane put it best "Seems legitimately loyal to Nintendo as they've continued to support the Cube despite low sales." I agree with that 100%. But what i dont agree with is the lazyness of Capcom lately when they made Mega Man Collection. Well, threw several forum post, I hear that Capcom did include several option on the NAVI mode for the PS2. Just speculation, Capcom said that there wasnt enoght room for the NAVI Mode Remixed Music which i think IS WRONG. First of all, All the Mega Man cart werent that big, from 128-512 KBs a piece. Well, thats not a problem with space and then we look at the SNES MM7 and i think that that cart is no more than 2 MBs big. MM8 would of took some space but i think something like 300 MBs because Nintendo has very good and relieable compression. I've played both MM Fighters in the arcade/emus but i dont think that they would be more then 15 MBs a piece. But then we have the CD audio, i have no clue about it. Is it WAVs, MIDIs, or MP3s? If its MP3s it isnt that large. Then we have several post on this subject of Capcom, originally made the game for the PS2 and then converted by a program to GC language. Well, if that was the case, someone at Capcom didnt wanta add the extra commands and programming to the GC version to make it almost identical to the PS2 version. If so, Why?? Well, after all the games and secrets would the be able to put the MM episode 1 on the GC version, We well never know! Then I look at the other side of the fence and see all the Games that were ported to the XBOX and PS2 and never considered for GC, Onimusha (both), SFII collection (PS2), sure there are some GC exclusives like the RE Series, most argue that these are the quintessential to any GC. Well, did you know in Japan there is a Bio-Hazard Box set (about $210 american),all of them up to 0 - 3 and Code: X? Why does companies exclude some things that will make good money like the RE box set to other contries like the UK and the States? I never really be a fan of the RE series and i thought that P.N. 03 could of been better made. I thought that PN 03 had promise and a good storyline. And then we have the View.. Joe Series and i can say that was the best use of Cel-Shading to this day. Well, i hope Capcom continues it efforts with Nintendo. I'm going to say this and most Nintendo guys will agree. "Nintendo has always been about Quailty and  NOT Quantity." If you took the PS2 library and cut it in half and then again, i would belive that 25% of PS2 games are rushed and then the other 25% are great games. XBOX i beileve that 35% of it library is great. And Nintedo's library will have classics forever.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Metaknight Atomic Planet made the MMAC not capcom them selves. Atomic Planet used the PSone versions of 1 - 8 and each version ran about 250 - 300 MB each. And Atomic didnt bother  compressing them down or make a NES emulator for the NES versions and used those raw uncompressed enormous game files to work with. So really you should blame atomic planet they even admited through the IGN boards that the Cube version was done first.  Also Gema Onimusha for the Xbox sold like crap and after that Capcom gave marginal Xbox support.  

I believe that Capcom has still strong ties with Nintendo and its paying off with quality titles(well most of them). The only japanese companies that hate Nintendo is probably Tecmo, Koei and  Konami(beside of Kojima's sucking on how Miyamoto is great).



EDIT: Metaknight you should all know by now that  Japan gets all these crazy exclusive bundles, different console colors and designs hell look at all those exclusive Japanese Xbox colors and disigns on the X portion.

[metaknight_Xaer0]

Well have you seen the White XBOX with Panzor Dragoon Orta? It cost 700.00 (American) if you import it and i believe that only 10,000 units were made. Nintendo has a Pastel Green looking GC Tales of Symphona Bundle included is a GB Player, Controller, MEM Card and a different logo piece on the top, a Metallic/Blood Red GC Bundle for a Gundum Game with Model, Controller, MEM Card, GB player, plus a logo piece (sells for 212.00 American), Metal Gear Solid: TTS Bundle. Its crazy that type of stuff is around and i should of just imported the RED one, drives me mad. I had no clue that Atomic Planet had to deal with Mega Man Collection more than Capcom did. That i didnt know. At least some Parties take blame for there games, insted of pulling lies (no ads, commercials, or etc). And does the CEO still have a job at Atomic Planet? The first thing i think that most companies do is blame a lot of sales on there Developers instead of lack of ads, commercials, and other factors.

[Rich]

Is this supposed to be mostly foriegn publishers cause I was just thinking about Activision. Not the best quality of games but most of them aren't bad. I've always like the Tony Hawk series they have always been done pretty well, umm Lost kingdoms and Lost Kingdons 2 were decent, Spiderman 1+2 movie games and also Bloody Roar, those were all pretty good and don't forget the they were resposible for Call of Duty last year and they are bringing  a call of duty game to Gamecube, they are also throwing True Crime 2 our way but the 1st one wasn't that great. Any way they aren't as bad as midway used to be earlier this generation, meaning they don't release total crap all the time, although Midway seems to be turning around.

[KDR_11k]

Capcom supports Nintendo because dealing with Sony is like dealing with the devil: Give them too much and you'll pay dearly. Capcom knows that a Sony monopoly is a worst case scenario for them. Several of their games were rejected by SCEA, do you think they want that SCEA becomes the only authority on which games they can make?

[Nephilim]

I hate 3rd partys, like i bought a atari 2600 but there all supporting nes cause its got a bigger fan base *crys*
I want em to go against stats and support 2600
why didnt they include the remixed songs I mean i hate the og versions, orc and techno remixes are the future!

[Flames_of_chaos]

deadlyd that was the worst sarcasm ever.

[metaknight_Xaer0]

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
One thing to clear up, today's Million = Technos.

Its not millions for them anymore, the made a lot of great games. And i just found out this:

"Technos Japan Corporation - defunct Japanese video game publisher

Technos Japan Corporation was a defunct Japanese video game publisher that had an American publishing subsidiary called American Technos. It is known by gamers as the originator of the Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-Kun (including River City Ransom) and Double Dragon franchises. It was founded in 1981 by three former members of a video game company called DataEast, including Kunio Taki, whom the Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-Kun franchise was named after. It was formed from a single-room apartment.

Technos Japan Corporation's earliest games, like Tag Team Wrestling, Karate Champ, and Dog Fight were published by DataEast. In 1987, Technos Japan Corporation started the Double Dragon video game franchise on the Arcade. After the success of the Arcade game, the company became financially able to relocate from an apartment room to an urban plant of its own. The success of Double Dragon in the United States also gave the company more confidence on the Western video game market.
Technos goes out of business

The sun sets on Technos Japan Corporation, because the Neo-Geo Double Dragon did not do well in the Arcades. Super Dodgeball for Neo Geo was the last game from the company. The Playstation port of the Neo-Geo Double Dragon game was the last product from Technos Japan Corporation. In 1996, Technos Japan Corporation filed for bankruptcy and went defunct. A few years later, the company's assets were acquired by Atlus Games, Inc. The company's former staff (including its president Kunio Taki) now works for Million, Inc., a subsidiary of Atlus. There have recently been enhanced remakes of games from the defunct company." - Japan 101 Technos Japan (i didnt know they were bankrupt.

Looks like a good future and we all know that this games will be "In Low Production." And they have the former President and DataEast only made crap in my opion. Robocop series wasnt total crap and the re-hashed it for the XBOX and its very popular in Japan

[darknight06]

I stand corrected.  

[Ian Sane]

"I'm going to say this and most Nintendo guys will agree. 'Nintendo has always been about Quailty and NOT Quantity.'"

BS.  That's just a PR spin made to save face when people realized the N64 had such a slim release schedule.  The NES, SNES, and every variation of the Gameboy had tons of first and third party games and that's what Nintendo is known for.  The N64 and Cube are exceptions caused by idiotic mistakes on the part of Nintendo.  If they truly stuck to that mantra then numerous asstastic third party N64 games would not have seen release.  And even if that is their mantra it certainly hasn't "always been".

[couchmonkey]

I actually feel Nintendo went for quantity over quality this generation.  In particular I thought Super Mario Sunshine and  the Wind Waker were rushed out the door.  Not that they're bad games, but I think in both cases Nintendo tried to make otherwise average-length gaming experiences long by drawing them out with treasure hunting.  I'm actually one of the least critical gamers around when it comes to treasure hunting, I think, but in both cases an overly large percentage of my time was spent looking for treasure and completing repetitive tasks.

Edit: Oh yeah, I didn't even say anything about third parties!  Ummm...I like third parties and I think Nintendo needs to put more effort into getting support from them, though some third parties just don't want to develop for Nintendo.   I do believe we'll see more Square Enix support for Nintendo's home consoles, but it will be nowhere near the amount of support it shows for PS2.  Can you say endless Crystal Chronicles sequels?

[kirby_killer_dedede]

So we're talking bout third parties, are we....hmmm....well, I think that Ninty's done an okay job this time 'round, contrary to popular belief (I've always wanted to say that publicly).  It's all about relativity.  Generation wise, NES was still...you know, third parties were nearly non-existent (as far as I am aware)....SNES obviously had tremendous support....GB, meanwhile, is kicking the rest of the world's ass...GBC is released, more ass-kicking action baby....GBA (need I say more?)....N64 (that's right, I'm not going in order, sue me).  This is where we stop the trend.  Sony's obviously got the upper-hand already, a situation no third party's been in before; they stuck with Nintendo, they profited.  Sony was winning, so they profited with them - simple.  Then, like the Nintendo name did for generations, it was the Sony name that sold the first, say, 10,000 PS2s.  Then the people who realized that they were stupid, and they should have bought PS1's instead of N64's bought PS2s.  Then a larger base developed.  It's this kind of thing that's keeping Sony ahead...but relatively (there's that big word again), Nintendo's doing okay.  I mean, N64 plain SUCKED 3rd party wise (which is okay in my book).  If you take into account the GBA, I think Nintendo's still got a monopoly like it once did.  Why have Microsoft and, until recently, Sony neglected the handheld market?  They were scared.  Maybe the GC's not doing so hot, but the GBA is, and that's what matters, because either way, whether its a new one or not, NIntendo has some form of a monopoly, and that monopoly is what draws third party support.  You'll notice that the SP has begun selling more than the PS2, as it once did, months ago.  This, if you put aside handheld/home, goes to show you; Nintendo's winning as far as I'm concerned.  I don't care for third party, unless it's what drives the console, which is not what's happening.  Sony and MS are nearly driven completely by third parties, which is why it works for them.  But when Nintendo has better games than its third parties, why bother?  I think that's the way Iwata sees it (which is why rather than doing third parties, he plans on teaming up with them)  and that's how I see it.  First party drives the GBA, even though there aren't as many of them as there are third party games.

There you have it.  Why Sony and MS care abou third parties, and why I f'ing don't.  Also why, contrary to everything I just said, am very jealous of this third party support they're getting.  Damn them.