Topic: Eternal Darkness 2 Marketing Tactic: Reasons

[Gremio]

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
The apparent source of the SK-XBox rumor:

IGN XBox's "Off The Record"

Argh. I swear, if they got this SK-Xbox "news" from a rumor (and the-magicbox isn't even reporting it as a rumor!) I'm never trusting any news from that site again!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Well, here's an approach I sometimes use:  nevermind the words, just look at the pretty pictures.

I employ this method when "read" (haha) NP, and PB.  Same goes for some websites.

[Urkel]

Honestly, at this point I just don't care anymore. If SK has become an Xbox (or Sony) exclusive, then Dyack simply isn't the man I thought he was.

If SK is merely going multiplatform, and will continue to support the Cube, fine. As long I get Too Human, it's not that big of a deal. If not... sigh...

The sad part is, SK was supposed to have a Cube game at E3. Coupled with Denis saying he would never leave Nintendo, I suspect that he was offered a huge money hat from Microsoft at the last minute. I swear, if Dyack does a complete 180 and starts badmouthing Nintendo like Ken Lobb did, I'll never trust what anybody in the game industry says.

"Nintendo Rocks!"

2 months later...

"Come to think of it, they don't. Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY! Would you like to stay for lunch? I think we're having MONEY!"

I fear that this is starting to become a trend. Let Nintendo nurture your company from obscurity, then leave and start working for the competition. Square and Rare did this. I hope this isn't the case here.

[Hybrid Hunter]

I don't think SK would let themselves be gobbled up by Microsoft so early after they just went 3rd party.
I'd hate it if that happened.

[The Omen]

If SK is Xbox exclusive, F*** SK then.   I buy one console each generation.   But Denis is a weasel if this is true.

[thecubedcanuck]

LOL, if the shoe were on the other foot here you guys would be cheering louder than the crowd at the Swan.
Denis owns a freaking business, and part of owning a business is making money. Sk's games seem better suited to the x-box and PS2 demographic, and I can see, from a business stand point why Denis would do this.
I honestly think SK's games will sell better on a differant console, and this alone justifies any such decision.
As they say, make hay when the sun shines.

[Ian Sane]

"Denis owns a freaking business, and part of owning a business is making money. Sk's games seem better suited to the x-box and PS2 demographic, and I can see, from a business stand point why Denis would do this."

I understand that perfectly but telling the fans that you're going to be Gamecube exclusive and then jumping ship midway through is a pretty dick-headed thing to do.  At least wait until the next gen to switch sides so that the fans feel happy with their purchase.  Odds are in that situation they'll be more willing to switch sides with you.  Square did that with the Playstation and it worked out fine.  They didn't release a few N64 games and then jump ship.

Considering they get money from Nintendo I imagine they could easily tough it out for the rest of this gen and then rethink their options.  That's a much more professional way to do things than telling the fanbase you're leaving but without providing any reasons for it and having us all freak out.  SK is treating us like crap with all this secrecy and speculation and Denis basically was lying the whole time when he assured us that they were going to be with Nintendo for a long time.

Business decisions are one thing but this whole situation is reaking of Microsoft's "screw the consumers" attitude.  There are much better ways to handle this sort of thing without coming across as a bunch of jerks.

[thecubedcanuck]

"I understand that perfectly but telling the fans that you're going to be Gamecube exclusive and then jumping ship midway through is a pretty dick-headed thing to do."

Not if they feel their next game will sell better on another system it isnt. Sk owes Nin fans nothing IMO, the dismal sales of both
ED and MGSTTS give SK every right to pursue other avenues.

"At least wait until the next gen to switch sides so that the fans feel happy with their purchase. Odds are in that situation they'll be more willing to switch sides with you. Square did that with the Playstation and it worked out fine. They didn't release a few N64 games and then jump ship."

Too much may be at stake to wait. Especially if the game is Too Human for example. Risking releasing it as a NIN exclusive, after all the time that has been spent on it could be financial suicide.

"Considering they get money from Nintendo I imagine they could easily tough it out for the rest of this gen and then rethink their options. That's a much more professional way to do things than telling the fanbase you're leaving but without providing any reasons for it and having us all freak out. "

For all me know this $$$ amount could be peanuts, giving them yet another reason to run.
As for the fanbase, sales dictate that the number is small, and from a business standpoint can be considered expendable.

"Business decisions are one thing but this whole situation is reaking of Microsoft's "screw the consumers" attitude. There are much better ways to handle this sort of thing without coming across as a bunch of jerks."

Its not just MS, competition is so tough in almost every sector, making this the must have mentality if a company wants to survive long term. A jerk in business is far better off than a nice guy on the unemployment line.

[Gremio]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
LOL, if the shoe were on the other foot here you guys would be cheering louder than the crowd at the Swan.
Denis owns a freaking business, and part of owning a business is making money. Sk's games seem better suited to the x-box and PS2 demographic, and I can see, from a business stand point why Denis would do this.
I honestly think SK's games will sell better on a differant console, and this alone justifies any such decision.
As they say, make hay when the sun shines.

There’s no guarantee SK’s game will sell better on the Xbox. Plenty of games have bombed big time on the Xbox. Dino Crisis 3 sold like crap. Crimson Sea sold like crap. Gunvalkyrie sold like crap. Otogi sold like crap. MGS2: Substance sold no better than what Twin Snakes will most likely reach in the long run. Developing for Xbox is just as risky as developing for GCN, unless, of course, you have an established fanbase (as is the case with the Tom Clancy games) or someone has handed out plenty of money hats.

Granted, MGS: TT and Eternal Darkness underpreformed but it’s suprising sales got that far with little to no advertising. Without the internet I wouldn’t have even known that either game existed. I’ve never seen a commercial for either game. I’ve never seen an add or a display at a game store. Heck, there aren’t even boxes for either game on the shelves at any of the Gamestops in my area (and I’ve been to 4 of them). All they put up are 1st party titles and targeted-towards-kids games like Disney’s Magical Mirror and Shrek 2.

If anything I’d understand and would not be bitching if a SK game was announced for PS2. That’s where the largest userbase is and that’s where the biggest potential for profit is.

[Ian Sane]

"Sk owes Nin fans nothing IMO, the dismal sales of both ED and MGSTTS give SK every right to pursue other avenues."

Well I'll give you ED but I wouldn't count MGS since it's not an original SK game and is a glorified port.  In that case I'd blame Konami since they made Nintendo and SK do most of the grunt work only to not advertise the game themselves and kill the game's thunder by showing off MGS3.  Plus MGS's sales figures weren't in yet when SK announced they were leaving and even if figures were available they were too early for any sane person to base a major decision on.  So basically SK has determined that they could make more money on another console because of the sales of ONE GAME.  That's jumping the gun in my opinion.  I think Nintendo's allowed to goof on the marketing of one game.

And even if SK doesn't owe Nintendo fans anything they certainly owe Nintendo something.  The only reason a company like MS is even remotely interested in them is because they're somewhat of a "name" developer.  They don't quite have mainstream appeal yet but they have a buzz going with the hardcore crowd and that's entirely because of Nintendo.  Regardless of how many copies ED sold SK is now associated with quality in the eyes of the gaming media and with hardcore gamers.  That's not much but they certainly are more well known now than the used to be.  They're at a stage where one big hit game could make them a powerhouse and they're at the stage that if they put themselves up for sale they would get companies interested.  They owe all of that to Nintendo.  They were virtually nobody and Nintendo made them somebody and now they're dropping them because of one dud.  That's unacceptable.  They used Nintendo.

And besides I fail to see how using business logic is going to make me suddenly think it's all cool.  I'm a consumer.  What the f*ck do I care about how much money these people make?  All I care about is that the games I want to play are on the console I buy.  I bought a Cube partially because SK said they were going to support it exclusively.  Now they're not.  They gained my trust and then went back on what they said.  That's a perfectly valid reason to be pissed off.

"As for the fanbase, sales dictate that the number is small, and from a business standpoint can be considered expendable."
Hmmm.  Dumping your small loyal fanbase for money?  I believe that's what's known as selling out.

[thecubedcanuck]

""As for the fanbase, sales dictate that the number is small, and from a business standpoint can be considered expendable."
Hmmm. Dumping your small loyal fanbase for money? I believe that's what's known as selling out"

I call it good business. As Cuba Gooding Jr. said, "SHOW ME THE MONEY"

[The Omen]

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I call it good business. As Cuba Gooding Jr. said, "SHOW ME THE MONEY"

That show me the money attitude is why it pisses people off.  Show some spine, work hard on your projects, and your reward will come.  Instead, they take money from the biggest corporation in the world.  What ever happened to hard work, anyway?

Quote
LOL, if the shoe were on the other foot here you guys would be cheering louder than the crowd at the Swan.

If you mean taking a small company under your wing, nurturing them, and then giving them the advantage and security of being a first party, a part of Nintendo, damn right i'd cheer.   That would be the bigger company championing the small company, which by the way, had all the time in the world to create their ONE original game. Unfortunately, SK and Denis arent thinking about that, just a wad of cash up front.(if true, of course)  I like how you think SK games will sell better on the Xbox, Cubed, when there have been monumental failures with games that were targeted to the so called 'Xbox demographic'.  Its easy to see why SK did this, and it has nothing to do with game sales.  And you're right, it's the 'show me the money' attitude.  Which sadly is ruining more companies and lives than its helping anything or anyone.  That kind of sentiment disgusts me.   Jesus, if it were Sony buying SK, i'd have virtually no problems with that decision(except the usual cursing NIN).  They would sell more games with Sony for the forseeable future.

[BlackGriffen]

Ian, there's a problem with your logic. The only games SK did with Ninty were ED and MGS. AFAIK, SK's major game history goes like this:

Blood Omen: Legacy of Cain (the original game of the series, whatever that was called)
Eternal Darkness
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes

The first was a critical success, if not sales success. The second was a critical success, and largely developed for the N64, before SK went second party (though even SK admits a good deal of help from Nintendo). The third was, well, you probably know about the third better than I do.

The short of it: Nintendo helped SK, they didn't make SK. If SK goes third party, I'll still respect them, and more seriously question whether to purchase their games. If Microsoft buys them, they are dead to me. I used to really like Bungie and Rare, too. The moment M$ folded them in, they were dead to me, end of story.

Retro Studios, OTOH, is a completely different story. Nintendo literally made them, and I would honestly like to see Nintendo do something like that again (make a first party studio, that is). Then take two or three first party studios, and give them a different brand, to distinguish them as a "mature" (read: hip) brand.

I doubt it'll happen, but here's hoping.

BG

[Rich]

Bad news you guys, according to the rumor section in the newest EGM, SK has aligned themselves with Sega to make a game for the Xbox. I'm not gonna believe it until it becomes official, especially since Nintendo has yet to release an official statment about the split but, I will admit that over half of the rumors in EGM seem to come true. I geuss we'll just have to wait and see.

[Bill Aurion]

"I will admit that over half of the rumors in EGM seem to come true."

And the others?    No official statement = bogus, imo...

[ThePerm]

i want to be a nintendo first party...i have a plan

[Djunknown]

Though it still stings that SK and Nintendo aren't  linked in a special way anymore, I'm agreeing with Cubed Canuck here.  The fact of the matter is, I as a hardcore gamer, am probably hopelessly outnumbered to casual gamers. Let's say on a simplistic level, its 10 of them and me. Simply put, my 50 dollars for ED or MGS is easily waned by the 500 of the casual gamers who bought, say [insert generic, uninspired game with good ad campaign here.]

Simply put: Money talks. Even if all the PGC forum members somehow and managed to pitch in to by an SK product they day it comes out, times that population by 10, and that's how many casual gamers are eating up [generic  uninspired game with good ad campaign]. We may love them to death, but we can't pay their bills, OR accomadate the lifestyle they want, if catch my drift.

Commenting on the rumor for a second, hasn't Sega learned their lesson? Sega+Xbox=no sales. What part of that equation don't they understand?

[Rich]

Yeah I was a little skeptical with Sega making an exclusive for Xbox with a team that has yet had a commercial hit. Which is one of the reasons I don't believe this. Then Again it was rumored that SK was working on an Xbox game and maybe it was too cool for Sega to pass up. Or just to be fair it could just be a false lead from Denis.

[Deguello]

You could play Mad-Libs and come up with more reliable rumors than EGM.

[Gremio]

Quote
Originally posted by: Rich
Bad news you guys, according to the rumor section in the newest EGM, SK has aligned themselves with Sega to make a game for the Xbox. I'm not gonna believe it until it becomes official, especially since Nintendo has yet to release an official statment about the split but, I will admit that over half of the rumors in EGM seem to come true. I geuss we'll just have to wait and see.

Silicon Knights + SEGA sounds... much too awkward to be true. Where the heck are these rumors coming from, anyway?

[BlackGriffen]

All I have to say is this: if Too Human goes xBox exclusive, I will be one unhappy camper...

BG

[Berny]

I will personally giftwrap my home made dirty bomb and turn M$ HQ into a brothel. Dirty bombs do that right?

[Myxtika1 Azn]

A brothel would be a perfect place for all the ones who are "whoring" themselves out for MS's cash.

[Berny]

I hope to God SK doesn't join in on the gaming orgy. Sure you make money, but then you get a rep as a dirty game maker and no decent person will hang out with you. Don't do that SK.

[Syl]

I honestly doubt an SK game would sell good on xbox anyway, not any better than it does on the cube.