Author Topic: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!  (Read 66642 times)

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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #325 on: March 23, 2019, 06:19:03 AM »
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300 km is LEO and is space. Depending on the organization 80-100 km will get you astronaut wings. The lowest orbiting satellite I remember off hand was GOCE at 255km to measure Earth's gravity. 480km is an arbitrary number you threw out of nowhere. This is why I find you so disingenuous as you throw out obvious lies as chaff.

Heterosphere.
Wrong. It's a sub layer that is exists within the primary spheres where it's defining characteristic is the stratification of molecules by weight from the extremely low number of collisions. It is not a determination of what is space or atmosphere. Nor does it have a fixed altitude due to solar activity. You managed to get everything wrong.

You completely misunderstood who Luke is, why people like him, why what they did to him in NuSW is character assassination and why it pissed everyone off. What you said wasn't just a bad interpretation it's straight up wrong. Hence hot take.
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Offline UncleBob

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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #327 on: March 23, 2019, 12:35:07 PM »
Mark Hamil said he felt like he was playing an alternate reality version of Luke.

I really enjoyed Force Awakens
Despised The Last Jedi
I have hope for IX

Rogue One has grown on me. I'm just not a fan of the characters and dialog in the movie. The Plot and the finale were pretty good though.
Solo was fun though I'll never except Wrong Solo. It would have been better as an original Star Wars story instead of making it about an existing character. I grew up with multiple James Bonds and Batman but never had that "that's not Sean Connery" feeling until this movie. Solo had some great scenes. This should have been a Dash Rendar movie.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 12:42:56 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #328 on: March 23, 2019, 07:01:35 PM »
Mutants are caused by the snap - people who were snapped then reversed are at risk of genetic mutation or some such.

that's been my pitch on how to bring mutants to the MCU.
the unsnapenning brought them back... but not all of them came back the same....

this can also be the reason why Namor finally makes his way to the surface world. Figuring that surface dwellers have royally fucked something up if half of the Atlanteans have suddenly faded to dust, which would look really different under water... This will also bring him to Wakanda as that is where the "Snapenning" took place (he used some crazy Atlantis tech to pin point the location #comicbooklogic)

I think when they re-introduce the X-men it should be through Deadpool. Deadpool has strange continuity with the rest of the X-men. I don't think Negasonic Teenage Warhead has crossed over and Colossus was different in Deadpool.

How they integrate Deadpool and his supporting cast into the MCU will be interesting.
They could have DP being the launch point of NuX-Men, and for the most part keep them separate, while somehow DP is able to cameo in both X-Men and Avengers movieverses, and I'd be ok with that too, but that's unlikely to happen.

I do much prefer DP's version of Colossus though.


Quote
There is still time to Retcon Dark Phoenix and new mutants though. Actually new mutants would be a decent launching point for MCU with reshoots and editing. You could easily retcon Captain America Civil war as the starting point of the Mutant Holocaust.

I'm still hoping Dark Phoenix never sees release in a movie theater. (Netflix, bail Marvel out one last time please). I was interested in New Mutants, but that isn't likely to ever see release, considering they still haven't even started shooting any of the reshoots they ordered.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #329 on: March 23, 2019, 07:49:48 PM »
Mark Hamil said he felt like he was playing an alternate reality version of Luke.

I really enjoyed Force Awakens
Despised The Last Jedi
I have hope for IX

Rogue One has grown on me. I'm just not a fan of the characters and dialog in the movie. The Plot and the finale were pretty good though.
Solo was fun though I'll never except Wrong Solo. It would have been better as an original Star Wars story instead of making it about an existing character. I grew up with multiple James Bonds and Batman but never had that "that's not Sean Connery" feeling until this movie. Solo had some great scenes. This should have been a Dash Rendar movie.
Yeah, Hamil tried to stop all this. Being an actor as part of a larger machine no matter how knowledgeable and immersed in the character he was they just didn't care. Their agenda was never about SW. Hijacking it was the goal in part by throwing everything before under the bus.

Knowing there is an actor who is time travelling Harrison Ford just makes it so much worse with so much lost potential. It no doubt killed what little momentum it had remaining.

LOL A Dash Rendar movie would have been pretty funny if they went full hack fraud route. Dude is a 90's photocopy Han with more of everything. For some reason the mention of his name can spark flame wars. Played it on the N64 and enjoyed it for what it was. I never read any of the media project material. Didn't know how funny the whole mess is until I found this:

https://lparchive.org/Star-Wars-Shadows-of-the-Empire/

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/science/atmosphere-layers2.html
That is a explanation of the 5 principle layers and what happens within them.

It does not define what is Space as that is not it's function. LEO starts at 300km. The ISS operates in LEO, as did the Space Shuttle and many satellites. The early Apollo missions to test tech was in LEO. Are you saying they all haven't been in space? You are considered an Astronaut past 80-100 km.

You're posting a link you're too lazy to support. If you are ignorant about the subject just admit it and take the hit. A good number of them would punch you like Buzz Aldrin would.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 07:52:20 PM by oohhboy »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #330 on: March 23, 2019, 09:32:20 PM »
They could always say Han Solo is like the Dread Pirate Roberts and Solo Han is different than OT Han. Then the movie becomes something different entirely. It might be stupid, but less stupid than having a guy who looks nothing like Han play Han. Also, the fact that he can't really be young Han because he's too old to be young Han. Young Han should have been like 17.

Aladdin should really be played by a 14 year old.

As far as Dash Rendar goes. I really enjoyed the shooter levels. Gall Space Port was fun to play. I spent hours messing around and replaying it.

Also some scenes on Solo corresponded to some scenes in SOTE. The train scene was really enjoyable as a SOTE fan. SOTE was actually my main entry point into Star Wars. Growing up they only ever played Return of the Jedi and I only ever watched it to the point when they are at the Sarlacc pit. I didn't watch original Star Wars until it was rereleased in 1997

Technically space is everywhere. We're in and moving through space as we speak.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 10:27:52 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #331 on: March 23, 2019, 09:46:27 PM »
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The ionosphere is an abundant layer of electrons and ionized atoms and molecules that stretches from about 48 kilometers (30 miles) above the surface to the edge of space at about 965 km (600 mi), overlapping into the mesosphere and thermosphere.

Dear NASA:

some guy on the internet says you're wrong and don't where space is.  And that Luke Skywalker is awesome.  Please hire him before you blow up another spacecraft.  Thanks.
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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #332 on: March 23, 2019, 10:14:07 PM »
Since this discussion has devolved into a technical argument of the where space starts I think it's about time for all involved to move on.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #333 on: March 24, 2019, 01:08:52 AM »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #334 on: March 24, 2019, 02:54:35 AM »
Since this discussion has devolved into a technical argument of the where space starts I think it's about time for all involved to move on.

I wanna circle back just a second (and I hope y'all will give me this one indulgence...) - you are correct, the technical boundary between the Earth's Atmosphere and Space isn't even really the issue here.

The issue is, does Luke have on-screen experience flying spacecraft before he Mary Sues his way into becoming a hero with a next to impossible lucky shot?

The answer is, resoundingly, no.  Now, Luke brags about his amazing piloting skills, but we never see this in action prior to his amazing X Wing show.

Likewise, I can brag about my amazing singing voice, but I can't hum a tune in a box.

Luke's Skyhopper is, apparently, non-functional during ANH due to Luke's wreckless piloting skills as well.  But that's not said in the script, so take that with a grain of salt..

But let's say Luke piloting the Skyhopper is like Anakin piloting a Pod Racer, but more whining and less terrible kid acting.  Let's say he's literally the best creature to ever exist that has ever piloted a Skyhopper.

Is the Skyhopper a spacecraft?

Technical definitions aside, there are two primary factors that are going to define an actual space craft apart from a fancy plane.  The first is the planet's atmosphere (friction, lift, etc.).  At the max altitude of 300km ("Low Earth Orbit"), while still in Earth atmosphere, the air is so thin it is virtually not a factor.  Although piloting a craft into that altitude would require a totally different skill set than boosting a ship out the shuttlebay doors, one could argue *that* actually takes more skill.  However, it is a totally different set of skills.  Most importantly, we don't really know *how* the Skyhopper works (since it's not shown on-screen - but there could be some out of the many expanded universe canon that details it).  To achieve LEO (On Earth, of course.), it requires a speed of roughly 28,000 km/hour.  A quick search shows Luke's Skyhopper with a max speed of 1,200km/hr.  Not only is this speed well under the required speed for getting into orbit, it seems quite low for routinely reaching the max altitude claimed - regardless, the maximum speed of the craft is far to low to maintain an orbit, implying the name of a "Skyhopper" is just that, a craft that doesn't maintain these crazy altitudes for any significant amount of time, likely "hopping" from a landing pad to another.

Why does a ship need to maintain such speeds in order to maintain an orbital flight path at 300km?  The second of the two factors that defines a space craft from a fancy aircraft - gravity. 

In low earth orbit, gravity is about 9/10ths that of normal Earth gravity - fairly indistinguishable from planetary gravity.  Now, I'm no expert, but I think it's safe to say there is a significant difference in piloting a craft in the gravitational field of a planet versus being in space, especially when gravity can so wildly fluctuate based on surrouding celestial bodies.  Remember, gravity doesn't just 'end' in space.

So, the effect of the atmosphere on the Skyhopper is negotiable with the details we have, but the effects of gravity are significant.

Is the Skyhopper a spacecraft?

Ima gonna go with my first answer.  Luke has no on-screen experience flying spacecraft until we see him jump in an X Wing and save the day.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 02:58:18 AM by UncleBob »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #335 on: March 24, 2019, 03:22:46 AM »
Wait did I or some one delete my post? If they did, not cool man, very not cool while letting UB willfully misrepresent information. If I made the mistake, I apologise in advance.

In any case orbital flight is not a requirement of getting in space or becoming an astronaut. Sub-orbital trajectories are also considered space flight. The method does doesn't matter.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/12/where-is-the-edge-of-space-and-what-is-the-karman-line/

Quote
Some people might argue that getting into orbit is what defines an astronaut. However, “I think Alan Shepard and Gus Grissom would disagree,†says Terry Virts, a former commander of the International Space Station who has spent more than 213 days in orbit. “They’re the first two U.S. astronauts who didn’t get into orbit.â€

Quote
Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. Air Force, NOAA, and NASA generally use 50 miles (80 kilometers) as the boundary, with the Air Force granting astronaut wings to flyers who go higher than this mark. At the same time, NASA Mission Control places the line at 76 miles (122 kilometers), because that is “the point at which atmospheric drag becomes noticeable,â€

https://www.ucalgary.ca/news/utoday/april13-09/edgeofspace

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Where does space begin? Scientists at the U of C have created a new instrument that is able to track the transition between the relatively gentle winds of Earth’s atmosphere and the more violent flows of charged particles in space—flows that can reach speeds well over 1,000 km/hr. And they have accomplished this in unprecedented detail. 

Data received from the U of C-designed instrument sent to space on a NASA launch from Alaska about two years ago was able to help pinpoint the so-called edge of space: the boundary between the Earth’s atmosphere and outer space.

With that data, U of C scientists confirmed that space begins 118 kilometre above Earth and the results were published this week in the Journal of Geophysical Research.


The instrument—called the Supra-Thermal Ion Imager—was carried by the JOULE-II rocket on Jan. 19, 2007.

You brought up the numbers UB, numbers you never understood. Just take the hit.
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Online broodwars

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #336 on: March 24, 2019, 03:46:19 AM »
The last thing I'll say on the issue of Luke's piloting skills is that Obi Wan actually acknowledges his skills when Luke first meets him in A New Hope.

Luke: "You fought in the Clone Wars?"

Obi Wan: "Yes. I was once a Jedi Knight, and so was your father."

Luke: "I wish I'd known him."

Obi Wan: "He was the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot, yourself."

Mind you. Obi Wan knew Anakin for years, and he's been watching Luke for decades. If Obi Wan's praising him, he's a pretty good pilot, even if within atmosphere. Obi Wan praises his piloting, and Biggs praises his piloting within the film itself. I think it's pretty safe to say the movie establishes this and often even without supplementary material like the Star Wars Radio Drama (which has Mark Hammil as Luke, so I'm inclined to consider it cannon).

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Lucasfilm also considered the Radio Drama Cannon until Disney blew up the extended universe as they did almost everything else.

"The Star Wars radio dramas were authorised adaptations of Lucas's scripts, and were originally considered part of the official Star Wars canon. Commentators have argued that, while the radio dramas vary somewhat from the film scripts, they should be considered canon insofar as they do not directly contradict the films.[5] In 1994, Lucasfilm's continuity editor, Allan Kausch, stated that "'Gospel', or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations."[6][7]"

But considering Star Wars has sound in space and combat based around inner-atmosphere WW2 dogfighting, I'm going to say it doesn't really matter in Star Wars whether Luke has experience in space or not, just whether it's in combat or not.

And yes, Luke beat the crap out of his Skyhopper pulling off that Stone Needle stunt.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 04:06:35 AM by broodwars »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #337 on: March 24, 2019, 11:58:50 AM »
>You brought up the numbers UB, numbers you never understood. Just take the hit.

Sure.  There's some carryover between the end of the atmosphere and the beginning of space, depending on the particular definition you use choose to utilize.  But since we're talking about sustained flight and piloting, surely we can agree that the 300km altitude does not equate to spacde insofar as the skills require to pilot a craft.

>But considering Star Wars has sound in space and combat based around inner-atmosphere WW2 dogfighting,

This is an accurate assessment as well.  The space battles in Star Wars aren't just unrealistic, but impossibly so (which makes the entire hyperspace battering ram complaint even more hilarious).

>I understand you've become quite a good pilot, yourself.

Obi Wan quickly changing the subject from one he didn't want to discuss to something complementing Luke (based off what?  Obi Wan's own observations?  Rumors?  We don't know because *we*, the audience, never see this).  Sounds reasonable.

>Lucasfilm also considered the Radio Drama Cannon

I'm not arguing for/against what is considered canon.  I am saying that we see no evidence of Luke piloting a spacecraft on-screen.

If Disney puts out a line of novels that they say is canon and which addess every issue you have with 7/8, are you suddenly going to become a fan of 7/8?  I'd assume not.  Because putting supplementary material required to follow the story outside of the films does NOT excuse poor storytelling in the films.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #338 on: March 24, 2019, 02:42:18 PM »
Maybe we should just lock the thread.
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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #339 on: March 24, 2019, 02:43:47 PM »
Maybe we should just lock the thread.

I'm not sure that's altogether necessary when there's really only 1 person arguing in a more personal nature.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #340 on: March 24, 2019, 02:58:58 PM »
Maybe we should just lock the thread.

I'm not sure that's altogether necessary when there's really only 1 person arguing in a more personal nature.

It takes two to tango, and neither seem willing to walk away.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #341 on: March 24, 2019, 03:44:16 PM »
Maybe we should just lock the thread.

I'm not sure that's altogether necessary when there's really only 1 person arguing in a more personal nature.

It takes two to tango, and neither seem willing to walk away.

I guess I don't see a reason to.  We're discussing the merits of movies before/after a Disney buyout in a thread about Disney buyouts.

No one is forced to read any particular posts and can scroll on by.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #342 on: March 24, 2019, 04:10:01 PM »
The first line is irrelevant because it's the way that conversation has been ebbing and flowing.  The definition of where space starts and gravity is pedantic and tangential at best.

The second line is an incredibly low bar for anything.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #343 on: March 24, 2019, 04:35:36 PM »
I agree and conceded that the location of where space starts has virtualy nothing to do with determining if Luke has on-screen experience flying spacecraft.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #344 on: March 24, 2019, 05:44:15 PM »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #345 on: March 24, 2019, 05:45:02 PM »
So Predators can show up in the Star Wars universe now. Thats cool.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #346 on: March 24, 2019, 05:56:48 PM »
Not if Disney does it.  That'd be ruining the heart of Star Wars.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #347 on: March 24, 2019, 06:18:14 PM »
So Predators can show up in the Star Wars universe now. Thats cool.

If predators exist in the SW Universe, then so would Aliens.
and so would Earth....

I'm pretty sure the only place we will see Predators, Aliens and Midochlorians interact will be at a Disney Theme Park near you

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #348 on: March 24, 2019, 06:41:03 PM »
Earth exists in Star Wars.  Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D
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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #349 on: March 24, 2019, 06:48:14 PM »
Earth exists in Star Wars.  Noa was trying to fix his ship to get back there in the second Ewok movie (co-written by Lucas) - at least, according to some secondary sources. :D

Just bear in mind that the Alien & Predator movies take place in the far future and Star Wars takes place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away."  ;)
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