Topic: The Legend of Korra [Season 4 airs in Jan/Feb for Australia]

[SixthAngel]

I think he got pissed because he legitimately despises Amon, what he is doing and his methods.  Tarrlock has no problem oppressing nonbenders and being an incredibly powerful bender would hate someone who not only is antibending but wants to take it all away.  They are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

I like how it shows when things get out of balance it just builds up.  Amon and Tarrlock directly feed each other and increase the others support the more extreme they become.  While Tarrlock did have a small speech about extremes that fit the episode title (Korra should have listened to Tenzin) I think it alludes to the future which will be Tarrlock versus Amon and the equalists with Korra on neither side.

Korra needs to learn airbending not for the actual bending but to benefit from its discipline and way of thinking.  Korra simply cannot sit still but always has to act.  Tenzin tells her to meditate on the flashbacks of her past lives and instead she goes on patrol and later confronts Tarrlock.  Had she meditated on these problems she could have found better solutions and not rushed into things.  She needs to be able to detach herself from the situation and take an Aang/Tenzin approach to conflict sometimes.

[broodwars]

Alright, that was a great episode, and in stark contrast to the last episode it shows how much better plot twists can work when the story actually builds a particular subplot towards it (rather than just throw it in on a random character we barely know).  It looks like I was right about Tarrlock being evil, though not in the way I expected (although that still isn't ruled out for certain).  I really wish the show hadn't taken a week off last week, because that cliffhanger is evil and I really want to see where the story goes from here.  Something tells me we have an epic Tenzin vs. Tarrlock battle coming in the next few episodes.  I'm really curious to know as well how Tarrlock can bloodbend without a full moon.

[Oblivion]

Well, I have a theory, care to read it? Half the time I type in this thread I don't think many people notice.

[broodwars]

Well, I have a theory, care to read it? Half the time I type in this thread I don't think many people notice. :

Sure, go ahead. It's your thread.

[Sundoulos]

I had just assumed that Tarlock had something in his office area that simulated the light of the full moon, but then I quickly realized that I must have been having horrible flashbacks pf an episode of Dragonball Z. 

We've seen most of the old Gaang in Korra's flashback, but have we heard anything about Zuko?  I had heard that the Welcome To Republic City game on nick.com made reference to the fact that he was still alive.  Part of me can't help but wonder if they'll bring him back at some point in the series to track Korra.  If he should make an appearance, I hope it will be as the Blue Spirit.

For that matter, what does everyone think about all the stories about Fire Bender's killing people's parents.  Mako and Bolin's dad, Hiroshi Sato's wife and supposedly Amon all purportedly were attacked by a Fire Bender at some point.  Mentioning three similar occurrences in the show seems to be a bit too much to be a coincidence.  Could this be the work of a single rogue Fire Bender? 

[Stogi]

How is no one talking about that last episode?

Tarlok - "Who are you?!"
Amon - "I am the solution"
*chills*

[broodwars]

How is no one talking about that last episode?

Tarlok - "Who are you?!"
Amon - "I am the solution"
*chills*

It was yet another "good, but not great" episode for me, and the devil was in the details.  I didn't like how the Tarlok storyline resolved itself, because it felt too easy and we really didn't need Amon built up as even more powerful at this point when he's already been built up as a god.  Plus, I didn't like how the writers explained Tarlok's all-powerful Bloodbending: "Well, he can bloodbend without a full moon because...his father could do it.  And his father could do it because...he's special."  What a let-down.

Granted, we've had benders in the past that have...well..."bent" the rules a bit like Combustion Man (which the episode itself references), but they never completely broke the rules the universe established.  Tarlok and his father can break the rules because...they can break them.  That just feels like a cheap "out" for the writers.

That said, there was a lot to like in this episode, like seeing Team Avatar kick ass and break into an Equalist prison (why was Amon still holding those soldiers when he'd already removed their bending?).  The highlight of the entire episode, of course, was seeing the old Gaang back together again in a flashback, though once again the Avatar State was used as the Deus Ex Machina of the situation.  That was an especially odd choice by the writers considering it draws attention to the fact that we've never seen Korra in the Avatar State, and it's supposed to be an automatic defense mechanism when the Avatar's in mortal danger.  It also seems really odd that Katarra wasn't at the trial considering what it was about.

And enough with the shipping, please.  I thought they already spent a whole episode on that just to get it out of the way, but we're back to the shipping again with this episode.

[Stogi]

The Avatar-State wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. It's the exact opposite because of how extremely well explained it is. Aang was in mortal danger. I mean, his neck was about to be broken. He is expected to go into that state and that's what happened.

You're right that Tarlok's blood-bending was maybe too easily explained, even though the evolution of bending has and is already severly explained. Not just with Toph and metal bending, Katara and blood bending, but with fire bending masters and lightning.

And yes, I also agree that it was a bit jarring that Katarra wasn't at the trial considering everyone but Zuko was there. But I still think the flashbacks did a good job of showing what is truly on display in this season. Energy-bending.

Tarlok's super natural ability brings up more questions than answers about Amon's. And if that was the point of Tarlok, then I applaud the writers. Because even Aang wasn't immune to it until he called upon all the avatars for strength, so how could Amon be?

[Oblivion]

Broodwars, it was never established that bloodbending could ONLY happen during a full moon. Just because Hama and Katara could do only do it during a full moon, no one else can? Come on. If that's the case, why aren't you complaining that none blind earth benders can learn metal bending and firebenders that haven't mastered their emotion can learn lightning bending?

And like I've already said, a great number of the fandom LOVES shipping. Just type in "korra" in tumblr and you'll see how much love shipping gets. So whether you like it or not, shipping is here to stay. And besides, that amount of shipping was very minimal this time and it's kind ridiculous that you had a problem with it.

And like Stogi has explained, the Avatar State is not a Duex Ex Machina. Perhaps if you've only seen The Legend of Korra, but it's been explained so well in the original series that the average viewer is expected to know what it is.

You keep looking for reason to dislike this show and it's, quite frankly, pretty sad.

[broodwars]

Broodwars, it was never established that bloodbending could ONLY happen during a full moon. Just because Hama and Katara could do only do it during a full moon, no one else can? Come on. If that's the case, why aren't you complaining that none blind earth benders can learn metal bending and firebenders that haven't mastered their emotion can learn lightning bending?

The original series established that Waterbenders are at their strongest in the light of the full moon, and they're at their weakest during the day ("You rise with the moon. I rise with the sun!").  Maybe if this bloodbending was still being performed at night in the light of the moon, I could buy this, but we're having bloodbending performed in broad daylight.  And not only that, but it's bloodbending on a scale where one person can control an entire room of people (including some incredibly powerful benders), something we haven't seen before.

As for metal bending, it was never stated in the original series that you had to be blind to perform it.  The way Toph was forced to use her "vibration vision" (or whatever you want to call it) just allowed her to see the earth in the metal so she could learn to bend it.  Note, actually, that when Toph realizes this, the Guru mentions there being earth in metal as well.  As for firebending and lightning, we've seen benders in the past who have used it while being very emotionally charged (the final battle between Zuko and Azula comes to mind).  It's just that the bender has to keep an internal balance when separating the forces that create the lightning.

And besides, that amount of shipping was very minimal this time and it's kind ridiculous that you had a problem with it.

"Minimal"?  The "camera" must have cut to show Asami's growing jealousy towards Korra at least 3-4 times in this episode as Mako went nuts over finding her.  Plus, there was her freaking out over Bolin telling her that Korra and Mako kissed during the tournament.

And, sorry, but "a lot of people like it!" doesn't make it "good".  Take for instance the ultimate in bad shipping: the Twilight movies. This show just has enough to cover (and, with only 26 episodes, barely enough time to do it) without spending more time than is necessary on petty shipping issues.

And like Stogi has explained, the Avatar State is not a Duex Ex Machina. Perhaps if you've only seen The Legend of Korra, but it's been explained so well in the original series that the average viewer is expected to know what it is.

Even in the original series, I've never been terribly fond of the Avatar State, as the writers just seem to randomly determine what is and is not a mortal threat to the Avatar.  Consider that Korra has been in mortal danger several times during this series, and she's never entered the Avatar State (and, no, I'm not buying the whole "well, she's just not spiritual!" excuse when it comes to an automatic fail safe like the Avatar State).  Plus, when it is used, it just feels a bit cheap because it doesn't feel like the Avatar actually won the fight on their one (which is why I really liked that Aang refused the Avatar State during the final battle, as he wanted to win on his own terms).

You keep looking for reason to dislike this show and it's, quite frankly, pretty sad.

Yes, I clearly dislike this show, which is why I keep watching every episode; eagerly look forward to the show every week; and have viewed every episode favorably so far.      Sorry, but the writing in this series is just not as sharp as in the original series.  Avatar: The Last Airbender set the standard pretty high, and this series just isn't quite measuring up as well despite being an enjoyable series in general.

You keep looking for a reason to translate my "criticism" as "hate" (and not just on this subject) and it's, quite frankly, pretty sad.  Now if you're satisfied, Don Quixote, I think there are still some windmills out there for you to chase.

[Oblivion]

Actually, I find the fact that Azula using lighting when she went batshit crazy to be a plot hole in the original series, considering that Azula couldn't have kept a balance at her mental state. Zuko is exempt from this rule because he didn't do it the conventional way; he used Iroh's waterbender technique to only "redirect" the lightning.

And whether or not shipping is "good" is utterly subjective. You may hate it. The majority of the target audience does not. I personally am indifferent towards shipping. But you need to remember that Korra is intended for those who grew up watching the original series. And guess what the target audience was for Avatar? Boys, 6-11 years old. You need to deal with things like shipping and the bad fart jokes, simply because you are way out of the target audience range. You need to deal with that kind of stuff when watching a children's cartoon.

And I never thought the Avatar State activated during when the Avatar was in mortal danger, I thought it was when he was in a high emotional state: almost drowning after leaving the Air Nomads, once again in the Storm, Katara almost getting killed by that Earth General, etc. He learned how to control it later and that's why he did it as an adult in those flashbacks: he can control it at will. It isn't a plot device, it's just another reason why the Avatar is the strongest bender alive.

I agree that some of the writing isn't as sharp, but you can't fault the show that much, considering the main writer for the original series (Aaron Ehaz, who I consider to be the third creator of the show) left to do bigger and better things and the main writer for Korra is someone who was in charge of Avatar's lesser episodes.

[Stogi]

I would say that the writing is at least at par with the first season. Actually I'd say it is somewhere above it but below the second season, mainly because of Amon's lines. Like I said before, some of the things he says give me chills.

[UncleBob]

I see no issue with Bloodbending as an at-will power.

Face it, before someone ever used waterbending, it was unknown.  When the first person used it (probably during a full moon, when their power is strongest), someone could have screamed "This is bull****.  You can't do that!".

Eventually, there became more waterbenders as they worked to perfect the technique.  I'm sure each time something new happened (say, turning water into ice, working with air benders to make clouds/rain, bending the water in plants to create giant swamp creatures), there was probably someone crying foul, that the rules are being broken.

When we were first introduced to bloodbending, Katara was confused - such a thing had never been seen before.  I'm sure there could have been someone upset with this story line plot point.  I mean, we hadn't seen it before, so it could never happen, right?

Ignoring any unknown bloodbenders (I'm hoping the above did a good chance of establishing the fact that just because we didn't specifically see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen), let's look at the two bloodbenders we met in the first series.

First, you have Hama.  She discovered her bloodbending talent through desperation.  While a powerful waterbender (exactly how powerful is never really shown), she was a beaten-down, weakened prisoner.  It took her years to discover her talent and to practice it to a point where she could actually control another human.

Second, you have Katara.  Young.  A powerful bender, yes, but still raw.  She may have been Aang's teacher, but she was quite young... yet she managed to bloodbend people on her VERY FIRST TRY.  Yes, during a full moon, but with virtually no practice, as it took Hama.

Now, imagine you've got a waterbender who's as talented as Katara and can bloodbend so easily.  Now, imagine that individual actually works to train and hone their skill.

It is in no way unbelievable that a moon-less bloodbender could exist.

[Oblivion]

I agree with everything you said, UncleBob.


And btw, after rewatching the episode in HD, I learned that the small fight when Korra breakes out of the box and when she attacks Amon is some of the most fluid and beautiful animation that I've seen in a cartoon since a Miyazaki film.

[Sundoulos]

Let's not forget that Katara not only was able to blood bend, she was stronger than Hama, so she was also able to resist Hama's blood bending as well.  It's possible that Amon is a blood-bender as well (until this most recent episode, I thought he would be revealed as Yakone).

Is it possible that Amon is just absorbing powers rather than chi-blocking them?  Perhaps that would explain how he was able to resist Tarlock's blood-bending. 

At any rate, whatever he's doing, I suspect he's waiting to take away Korra's powers once she's in the Avatar State.  As I recall, though it's when the Avatar is the most powerful, that's supposed to be the one time that you could truly kill the Avatar permanently.  It seems to me that Amon is out to destroy bending at the source, and that would be one way to accomplish that goal.

A review of the last episode on AV Club caught my attention because it cited the following quote from one of the show's creators.

Comics Alliance: It's been established that Korra is naturally more physical and less spiritual than Aang, which makes her fit in with the more technology dependent Republic City. Just as the new Avatar and her world have changed since Aang's time, should fans expect possible future manifestations of The Spirit World to be similarly altered?

Michael DiMartino: The Spirit World hasn't changed, exactly, but what will be interesting is to see how the spirit world reacts to Korra's technologically dependent world.

The review goes on to say that we haven't seen any of that this season, aside from Amon's seemingly supernatural powers.   I suspect that we'll begin to see some of that rectified in the penultimate episode of the season, though.

At first I thought that Amon could be some other vessel or Spirit World agent designed to kind of a judgement for Republic city, but that doesn't really make sense. I would think that the Spirit World wouldn't want the real world to be completely severed; then again, there were already spirits in A:TLA that were downright hostile or at least less than fond of humanity e.g. Koh the Face-Stealer and Wan Shi Tong (the owl in The Library).


(I've secretly been hoping for a return of Koh.  Koh was creepy.)

[Oblivion]

You've seen my Koh's rant, right? Here's the tl;dr version: spirits are not evil. Each one is in charge of a worldly duty. We don't know what Koh's is for sure, but we can assume that he is some kind of world-balance-checker. He killed Avatar Kuruk's wife because Kuruk was shirking on his Avatar duties. Does that make him evil enough to "liberate" Republic City? No.

And in any case, if the Spirit World wanted to liberate the city, they'd just destroy it. They don't seem like they have a "plan". Hei Bei and the Water Spirit come to mind.

[Oblivion]

Artwork for the finale by one the show creators. Considering that Korra seems to be wearing Equalist clothing, we can assum that hse tries to infiltrate their main base. And since Hiroshi is in the artwork, he's probably going to make a return.

[Sundoulos]

You've seen my Koh's rant, right? Here's the tl;dr version: spirits are not evil. Each one is in charge of a worldly duty. We don't know what Koh's is for sure, but we can assume that he is some kind of world-balance-checker. He killed Avatar Kuruk's wife because Kuruk was shirking on his Avatar duties. Does that make him evil enough to "liberate" Republic City? No.

And in any case, if the Spirit World wanted to liberate the city, they'd just destroy it. They don't seem like they have a "plan". Hei Bei and the Water Spirit come to mind.

I didn't use the word "evil", though I don't really think that Koh is very altruistic.  It's been a while since I've seen the episodes in which he appears, but I do remember thinking of him as at least sinister.   He told Aang what he needed to know, but I don't think he would have had any compunction about causing Aang harm.  He actively tried to get Aang to show emotion.

We don't know the circumstances under which Koh acquired those other faces.  We could presume that they also were involved in some sort of judgement, but I seriously doubt it. 

I'm just saying that he's definitely not altruistic.  I do agree that the Spirits wouldn't be aiding an agent to take bending away.

[Oblivion]

The only reason he seems sinister is because his whole reason to exist is to steal faces. And considering his name is "Koh, The Face Stealer" it isn't exactly surprising that he tried to steal Aang's face. But hey, your arguments sound better than other's that I've heard. It's normally one of my berserk buttons. Same with those theories that Aang's other son is Amon. That one is just stupid.

[broodwars]

Considering Koh is one of the those characters that the last series teased would be a bigger issue than he actually was, I actually really like the theory that Amon made some kind of deal with him and Koh took his face.  It's the only thing that seems to explain Amon having Energy-bending abilities when that was something only the spirits and the Avatar could do.

[Oblivion]

Amon still has his face though. You can very clearly see his eyes many times in The Legend of Korra. Koh is known to take the entire face. Eyes, nose, mouth, and all. Plus, before the age of bending the elements, it was the norm to do what Aang did during the series finale. I don't think it's just spirits and the Avatar that can do it. The problem is, he had to have learned it from an extremely old spirit (which I guess points to Koh) or that Lion Turtle.

[broodwars]

Amon still has his face though. You can very clearly see his eyes many times in The Legend of Korra. Koh is known to take the entire face. Eyes, nose, mouth, and all.

Hmm...true.  When we see Koh's lair in Season 1 of the original series, you see a lot of victims around it with completely blank faces IIRC.  Still, small inconsistencies wouldn't be altogether new for this series, considering we saw that Aang didn't have to do the whole "glow-y energy tug of war" thing when he energy-bended Yakkon in the flashback.

[Oblivion]

I have another explanation for that too but I'm sure you're tired of me arguing with you.

[SixthAngel]

Still, small inconsistencies wouldn't be altogether new for this series, considering we saw that Aang didn't have to do the whole "glow-y energy tug of war" thing when he energy-bended Yakkon in the flashback.

The tug of war always happens we just don't see it.  I don't think that was something anyone could see in the first one either, it was just shown to the audience.

Big things in the new episodeLin is unbent.  Another great episode overall and I like how Korra isn't the one responsible for the future right now.

[Sundoulos]

Amon still has his face though. You can very clearly see his eyes many times in The Legend of Korra. Koh is known to take the entire face. Eyes, nose, mouth, and all.

Hmm...true.  When we see Koh's lair in Season 1 of the original series, you see a lot of victims around it with completely blank faces IIRC.  Still, small inconsistencies wouldn't be altogether new for this series, considering we saw that Aang didn't have to do the whole "glow-y energy tug of war" thing when he energy-bended Yakkon in the flashback.

I have wondered if Amon was hiding his face behind the mask just as some sort of a defense from Koh.  Assuming that he made some kind of deal, he would assume that Koh would come to collect at some point.   

Sometimes a mask is just a mask, though.  I haven't seen today's episode, but I wonder if we'll find out who Amon is before the end of the season.  I like a little mystery, but I think that it will drive me crazy if we don't learn something else.