Topic: war in iraq

[ThePerm]

so souldiers found a chemical weopons facility....thats another strike on saddam.

[Marcus Arillius]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
"And most Iraqis don't want liberation. Read up a bit."

YOU SAID:  

Seriosuly, where are you getting that information? Last I checked civilians don't welcome US troops, defile posters of their "esteemed" leader, and surrender by the thousands if they didn't want to be liberated. Next you'll be telling me the people of Iraq *voluntarily* elected Hussein as their dicatator.


THEN YOU SAID:  

Most Arab nations are under the impression we intend of destroying the Islamic religion and replace it with Christianity.

Thanks for proving my point.  Most arab nations do believe we want to impose our culture on them and change their way of life, including Iraq.  They don't want that.  Iraqis see what we call "liberation" as a military coming and destroying their cities and killing civilians (yes we have, even if it was accidental) then eventually imposing our culture on them.  You might want to note that although some people have welcomed the troops, there are others who have "welcomed" troops and then attacked them in ambushes.  (I got that from CNN. )

Do you not remeber when the September 11 attacks occured there was video of people cheering in the streets of Pakistan and other Arabian countries?  I can't recall if there was video of Iraq's people doing the same thing, but being that Iraq and Pakistan are allies most likely their sentiments were the same.

[cubefreak123]

yes wat u said about the ambush is tru but they were not citizens they were soldiers POSING as civilians as far as i no most of the iraq ppl welcomed the troops and yes civilians have died BUT WE R NOT GOING AFTER THEM. I think that this is just about the only war where our president has told the soldiers how to surrender and has told the civilians how to stay safe plz correct me if i am wrong.

[thecubedcanuck]

To all the people who like to say "well the States and Russia have weapons of mass destruction".

Here is the problem with that. I admit it would be great if all the world were free of any form of weapons of war. The problem is not all nations would comply, many would have programs that are secretly building weapons.
Do you really think a leader like Saddam would get rid of all his Army and weapons if the US and Russia did?
Iraq's track record with Saddam in power speaks loud and clear.
Some needs to be the watchdog, the US has taken on this role. Will they always make the right decisions? I doubt it, but I definately trust their decisions over some of the alternitives.
This had to be done. I wish their was a better way, an easier way, a peaceful way. Sadly dictators dont have a habit of resigning, leaving only one option. The swift kick in the ass approach.

[thecubedcanuck]

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Do you not remeber when the September 11 attacks occured there was video of people cheering in the streets of Pakistan and other Arabian countries? I can't recall if there was video of Iraq's people doing the same thing, but being that Iraq and Pakistan are allies most likely their sentiments were the same.

This is so flawed it isnt even funny. Many of the people you see cheering have been raised with such a level of uninformed hatred that it is sickening. These people are in many cases uneducated, uniformed, and truly have no concept of what they are even cheering for.

They have been taught to believe that the Americans are evil, and that the American way of life is filled with sin and is also evil. I guess killing your wife because she showed her face to another man is just fine and dandy though, while your at, it why not brutally castrate your daughters as well.

Yes, our cultures are very differant, but that is no ecxuse at all to sit back and allow flagrent abuses on human life to occur.

Information, and education will truly be the only things that will really liberate the Iraqis, and the whole middle east for that matter. Only when they begin to realize we are not the evil people they think we are will thinks change, and here at home we must do the same thing, making sure our children know and respect them as well.

Removing Saddam is a step in the right direction, however it is just one piece in a very large and difficult puzzle.

[SuperCube]

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I'm starting to think you skimmed my post rather than actually read it-...

Maybe you should stop that thought of yours because I did read your entire post.

I'm gonna stop posting on this thread since it is dying through my eyes. The thing's gettin' on my nerves. @_@

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"How about we get rid of our own and go on an expedition to Russia with freaking UN inspectars to destroy THIER MISSI3S!!!11ds omg"

If I were you, I'd make sure my own spelling was perfect before critiquing others on it. I don't think of you any less because of it, especially since it was only one word compared to my many, but be careful when you're calling other hypocrites to make sure you're not one yourself.

You do know I misspelled that on purpose, don't you? *sigh* Have you never been to Jeff K.'s website? If not, then you must really be out of it.  

[Phillpot]

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Originally posted by: yrrab436
Yep, this is a political thread.  I think it's scary how people blindly believe the powers that be.  

I think France is very courageous for standing up to US imperialism.  Some countries see the dark path the US is taking and they should be praised for standing up to a horrid, lying, aggressive state.  Edit:  Okay, so maybe that's a bit much.  Still, the US habitually lies.

Hmm, when does the war start?  When Iraq starts to cooperate better?  I think Bushy was afraid of losing ANY "legitimate" reason to attack.  Yes, Saddam needs to be removed.  This isn’t' a mission of good will though.  It's an invasion, and no one can deny that.  France and the others tried to stop it, but the US seems to think it's above everyone else.

I hope we don't become like Germany was for the first half of the 20th century.  Remember, Nazis were patriotic too.  All this talk about boycotting French stuff and the Dixie chicks is warning signs of a slow drift into a state of fascism.  

I agree with the Dixie Chicks.  I'm ashamed to be an American right now.  I'm ashamed of the blind faith people give this government.  We're blissfully tossing our freedom away, and it sickens me.  I wouldn't have started such a thread, but you bet I'm going to post about it if the subject already exists.  This is a very dark time in the history of the USA, when we toss away great progress made over the last few decades.  I'm afraid ludicrous stuff like "Patriot II" is just the tip of the iceberg.  People are so stupid, blindly believing every bit of propaganda thrown about.  A bunch of stupid puppets, with George W. holding the strings.  I'm very ashamed of the American people.

This is a test.  America needs to prove its innocense to the rest of the world after the inevitable victory.  I sincerely hope we do.

After Iraq, I have to ask:  Who's next?  Do we have to launch preemptive strikes on all other countries to protect our security?

Edit:
Note that Iraq isn't the only country developing such weapons.  I acknowledge that Saddam's regime is horrid, but you have to always be questioning!  Why is it that the oil fields are the first on the list for the reconstruction of Iraq?  Not hospitals.  Not schools.  OIL FIELDS

Edit2:
I'm very vehement, but that doesn't mean I don't respect other people.  Yes, I think the public is being lied to and mislead, but that doesn't mean I have any enmity towards such people.  I know my post will be offensive to many, but that's just the way it goes.  I'm sure this is why this kind of topic is off limits.

I just thought I would point out that the dixie chick... uh chick recalled her statment and appoligized, saying that now that we are at war she will stand behind the president and our troops.  I read that in the paper.

As for me, I don't know why we didn't just send in some black opps to assasinate that dirty BAST%&# Saddam.  We could have set it up to look like an inside job....  I know this still leaves a lot of problems for setting up a new government.  I don't know, but something had to be done so I will stand behind president bush.  A lot of my friends are turning into major hippys and that kind of scares me.  Have any of you been to a peace rally?  It's like mob mentality!  There's nothing peacefull about most peace rallys.  Most of those people, a lot of my friends included, are just there because it's trendy!  Many are just trying to get out of class and get some excitment.  Most of those people don't know the first thing about the historical and political situation.  I can see why people protested they way they did in WWII, but this situation is sooo different.  Besides, shouldn't we really be protesting people like Saddam or bin laddin?  Just my 2 cents.

BTW Sorry about the quote thing, I'm still very new to this whole forum thing.

[cubefreak123]

ok the only reasoned she apologized about wat she said about the president IS FOR THE MONEY i bet the second she said that her manager said u better apologize or ur goona lose record sales its all for the money.

[Marcus Arillius]

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck

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Do you not remeber when the September 11 attacks occured there was video of people cheering in the streets of Pakistan and other Arabian countries? I can't recall if there was video of Iraq's people doing the same thing, but being that Iraq and Pakistan are allies most likely their sentiments were the same.

This is so flawed it isnt even funny. Many of the people you see cheering have been raised with such a level of uninformed hatred that it is sickening. These people are in many cases uneducated, uniformed, and truly have no concept of what they are even cheering for.

They have been taught to believe that the Americans are evil, and that the American way of life is filled with sin and is also evil. I guess killing your wife because she showed her face to another man is just fine and dandy though, while your at, it why not brutally castrate your daughters as well.

Yes, our cultures are very differant, but that is no ecxuse at all to sit back and allow flagrent abuses on human life to occur.

Information, and education will truly be the only things that will really liberate the Iraqis, and the whole middle east for that matter. Only when they begin to realize we are not the evil people they think we are will thinks change, and here at home we must do the same thing, making sure our children know and respect them as well.

Removing Saddam is a step in the right direction, however it is just one piece in a very large and difficult puzzle.

I hope your not saying my statement was flawed because it was 100% true.  Even if they are undeducated, the point is, they still don't want to be liberated, especially by the U.S.  Given, they will have a better life if they are liberated, but they don't know that.  They are afraid of us.  
And about the Iraqis welcoming the troops:  Wouldn't you welcome another countries' troops, especially if that country were larger and more powerful (although none are), if they were invading America in the hopes that they wouldn't see you as a threat, and would let you live?  Saddam has probaly told his people that the Americans are ruthless killers and to be afraid of them.  People will do anything to survive, and I don't blame them.
I agree, removing Saddam is a step in the right direction, it needs to be done, however, our government can offer us no reassurance or safety.  We could be bombed at any time.  Thats the reality of the situation.  That is why war with someone like Saddam is not a good Idea.  Someone mentioned earlier that a stealthy assasination would be better, and I agree.  It would be less risk to the American people.  
I'll end with this:  How many of you are willing to be killed to liberate the Iraqi people who most likely hate us and want us dead?  Well, get ready.  Now we are all in immediate danger (given we were before, but I think its a little more serious now) .  Don't be surprised if we are bombed.

[Marcus Arillius]

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Originally posted by: cubefreak123
ok the only reasoned she apologized about wat she said about the president IS FOR THE MONEY i bet the second she said that her manager said u better apologize or ur goona lose record sales its all for the money.

you hit the proverbial nail on the head, if I do say so myself.

[yrrab436]

I can understand her (the "Dixie chick's") position.

Wisconsin is my home, and I'm quite ashamed that McCarthy came from here, even though Lafayette (from early in the 20th century) alleviates that some.  If Bush keeps rolling down this path, perhaps many more future Texans will feel ashamed of him as many are ashamed of McCarthy.

For those who don't know, McCarthy was a guy that amplified the Red Scare to eliminate political enemies.  He became very powerful, but luckily was stopped when he started aiming higher than he should have too quickly.

Just like McCarthy, I think Bush is a very dangerous person.  I can't trust a president that once called the USA a "Christian country" and openly supports bigoted legislation and reductions of personal liberties.

I've actually been ashamed of Bush long before the war.  Who in their right mind would appoint someone like Ashcroft, who repeatedly attacked blacks and homosexuals in his dark work history, as attorney general?

I really hope Bush proves me wrong, but I've always seen him as the worst current danger to the country.

Edit:
I'm pretty sure people liked McCarthy during his time of fame.  Scary, isn't it?  My dad still insists that he's a "hero" for "stopping communists."  I have to wonder how many "terrorists" are simply political enemies.  What a convenient way of getting rid of foes.  It hasn't gotten like McCarthyism quite yet, but it's important to watch out incase it does.

[RahXephon]

Hooray for the free IRAQI's.  War is bad, years and years of suffering is worse.  There you go.  If anyone out there who are protesters would do research into war and its philosophy, you would see that by human nature everyone is a threat.  Most can be reasoned with but some can not.  Sadaam can not.  Thank god bush is doing what his father couldn't.  Free those poor people.  Imagine coming home and seeing you daughter being molested by Iraqi soldiers.  That place is like somehting out of a horror movie.  We are pretty selfish to say the money needs to be spent here.  Times will be tough for us, but those people live the worst lives imaginable.  Not even mentioning the countries who have to neighbor them.

My final statement, anyone who claims to be a humanitarian and objects to the war are hippocrits to the highest degree worrying of only their own happiness and idea of self-righteousness.

[ThePerm]

well when bush is up for election again; if you dont like him dont vote for him. The whole world hates Bush, right from the beginning. When he was elected even though he had never been president before there were huge protests in other countries. Everyone asusmes hes just like his father...and many didnt like his father. If Bushes name was George Hedge people would love him. Hell if bush wanted to send people into iraq to hug iraqis people would protest in the millions.

[RahXephon]

i am so glad to see the number of you who REALLY KNOW your politics.  People hear of France and Germany's refusal and think well look know i can say that even they think we shouldn't go to war.  But it is obvious they dont know what many others know, like the money owed to both countries.

We get 15% OF OUR OIL FROM IRAQ.  THE PRICES ARE GOING UP BECAUSE OF A STRIKE IN ZENESVUela(spelled wrong but what can ya do).  IF this was for oil, we would be working on that country instead.  Please Please protestors read Hobbes.  He was one of the greatest minds ever but understood war.  And you know what, if we get some oil out of this, then what the hell, we do, if not, then what the hell we don't.  I just know that if we do get oil from the IRAQI PEOPLE AFTER LIBERATION it will be by their contribution.  yet some will say it "proves" the war was for oil.  Do you people realize the longest period of time without MAJOR war was the roman empire.  You see gladiator.  THat was the goverment it takes to keep peace.  One with a militia so powerful no one rises against it.  THe only way to feep peace if fear.  That is why there are no revolts against sadaam because the fear is greater.  For all the anti war protestors, this is the only way to have true peace, it just is by OUR HUMAN NATURE.  I wish it wasn't but it is.  
Maybe there could have been SOME way to prevent war.  Well we are at war.  And here is the deal folks, Sadaam does NOT deserve a deal.  Why should he need more than 24 hours to leave.  I just don't see why.  If he cared about his people he would.  BUt nope, HE STARTED THIS WAR, AND DO YOU KNOW WHY, BECUASE HE KNOWS THAT SOME COUNTRIES WILL AGREE AND SOME WILL NOT AND HE WANTS THE WORLD TO BE IN CHAOS.
Also someone said that bush is using this war to pass bills that might not be passed.  WELL WAKE UP GUY.  This is called politics, it has been like this since man was organized and thewre have been people who pretend it never was and we just imagine it.  Clinton did it.  Yes the beloved Clinto passed bills WE didn't know about.  But you know what, those people are still free today to be what they want.  Even with the "lies" of politics we are still here.  The reason these bills are passed quietly is because the common opinion is commonly wrong.  I see the people in my College and i would not want them to pass laws, they are too lax, not asscertive, and are too self centered.  What do superheros due, sacrifice themselves for the good of others.  I think spiderman is the best example i can give.  This is becuase there are many who dont like him yet he still does what is right.  

I end with this, the only thing more valuable than a human life is one used to save many.  I wish i could be fighting too, knowing that i gave up my selfishness for a cause much greater than myself, unfortunately i can not becaue of physical implications.  I did test high enough for inteligence and would be interested in that, but i am almost done with my degree, so one thing at a time.  God Bless the Troops, our President who for better our worse is doing what he believes is best for us and the world, for the people who are supporting the troops and letting them know we will welcome them back with open arms.  And finally God bless Freedom, "freedom is a gift that belongs to the world".  Said by a very wise man.

[cubefreak123]

Im just curious if all these ppl hate bush right now why (in the u.s) does he have about 71% of america for the war i personally think bush is a great leader he goes by wat this nation was founded on God and the bible (dont deny it u no its tru)

[Gamer Donkey]

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Also someone said that bush is using this war to pass bills that might not be passed. WELL WAKE UP GUY. This is called politics, it has been like this since man was organized and thewre have been people who pretend it never was and we just imagine it.

Let's examin the word "politics": you have "poli-" as in many, and "-tics" as in blood-sucking parasites. (And I know that's not what it actually means so don't flame me.)

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also people bring up the idea "why didnt we finish the job 12 years ago? when we were at war?"
because clinton got elected and had 8 years in office. The tides of power was handed off and the agenda was different.

We didn't chase Hussein into Iraq because that was not the purpose of the Gulf War. Bush Sr. intended to get Iraqis out of Kuwait, he did that. The UN's resolution only went so far as getting Iraqi forces out of Kuwait, unlike his son, Bush Sr. actually listened to the UN.

Remember, during the Gulf War the first disarmaments hadn't even been attempted yet, so Hussein's weapons were unchecked. Who knows how many lives could have been lost.  

[kennyb27]

First off, I would like to say I am for what we are doing right now.  I think Bush is handling this as best he can and in the only way possible.

1) Saddam had nearly 12 years and 17 resolutions telling him to disarm.  Recently, the resolution passed by the UN stated that severe consequences would follow if Saddam didn't disarm.  He didn't.  Therefore, even without the UN officially stating again, the severe consequences could be followed through with.
2) People say the US is in this for the oil.  I strongly disagree with this, if we were in it for oil we would capture the oil fields and send in bombs to Baghdad to kill Saddam.  Also, I turn the statement about the oil around and say the French are not in it for the oil.  Iraq's largest exportations of oil have been to the French for the past 10 or so years.
3) I find it even more ironic that after the first night of bombings, the Iraqis launched a missile.  And the missile that they launched, they claimed to not have and were not supposed to have.
4) To think that there are people complaining of the casualties of the coalition force is completely ridiculous.  Only 38 confirmed dead in nearly 6 days of combat is very good.  And after talking to several retired Marines (all from combat situations), all of them believe these protests saying "bring our troops home" are ridiculous.  Although they say that the possible situations are nerve-wracking, they love serving their country.
5) To the reports that the war isnt going as scheduled or the plan is failing because of the situations in the 101st division and the casualties is ridiculous.  This is war, these things happen.  Centcom will, out of their own statements, tell you that the war is above and beyond its planned state at this stage.


PS. Gamer Donkey

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"Now go away! Before I taunt you a second time!"

Can you make that any easier?!  Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the Frenchman in the French castle in England lol  

[simpsonsfan2003]

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Originally posted by: cubefreak123
Im just curious if all these ppl hate bush right now why (in the u.s) does he have about 71% of america for the war i personally think bush is a great leader he goes by wat this nation was founded on God and the bible (dont deny it u no its tru)

That's not entirely true. True the Puritans came here for freedom of religion but that was still when the colonies were under British rule and the local churches in the colonies made the laws and enforced them (ie Salam Witch Trials incident, 1600's-early 1700's). After we gained our independence in 1776 we made up the Constitution that was adopted in 1789 which with the 1st amendment rights guarentees freedom of religion, which was not around when we was under British rule due to local churches ruling in the towns. Thank goodness for the establishment clause, which doesn't allow the government to establish a national religion. And thank goodness the majority of the popular held ideals by people don't turn out to vote, thus allowing minority ideals to be brought into law. I'm glad this isn't offically a Christian nation if it was it would be like Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran, China, etc where you can only practice a certian religion(s) besides religious people are hypocrites and bigots.

Study your American history people.

[Nintendork SP]

I don't know though 3_MaSteRPIeCE, I think in my school kids will take any opportunity to call this country stupid.  I don't know why but it is very stupid.  
My opoinion on the war, well I am one of those opinionless bastards who can't decide what I want.

[cubefreak123]

simpsonfan yea thats tru but hey im the kinda person whos not rlly into history im usually wrong so dont mind me  

[sequoia]

Hay simsonfan, you sound a little hateful tword christian. True, for every good christian, there are some not so good. Did you know that our military troops are getting baptized if they desire in Iraq? Its one thing the media will not cover. But they will report every single little injury or death and the public reacts to it like its the end of the world. People knew there will be death and injury, but when the news tells every little detail, we react like there sould not be any deaths in a war. The soliders know what the stakes are, if they didn't like it, they would not have joined.

[simpsonsfan2003]

Sequoia, religion is for the weak. If you research religions you'll see how they borrow ideas off each other, besides the futher back you go you can see how old myths get revamped to suit the other group that uses it. Take the Flood Myth if you read "The Epic Of Gilgamesh" on the 11th Tablet there is a flood myth on it, that flood myth is older than the Old Testaments, the Hebrews borrowed it and changed some stuff but it's nearly exactly like the Sumerian flood myth in Gilgamesh. Zoroasterianism has Ahura Mazda (Creator god, the good deity) and Ahriman (the evil deity, against man) and it's up to humans to side with which diety to fight for good or evil. Zoroasterianism also promised of a messiah to come. Zoroasterism was around way before Christianity, besides if you look into Judaism you'll see it disproves Christianity easily, it's theology is different in Judaism God is one and not a triad, and in Judaism the messiah is suppose to be fully human WITHOUT any divinity. www.jewfaq.org is a great website to learn about Judaism also try http://religion.about.com it has excellent resources on many different religions, so is www.religioustolerance.com

Good Day Sir,
-SimpsonsFan2003

[SSJBonacci2]

Can u give me any bit of information about judism that disproves christianity? Im sure that it is a lie! And can you tell me how the Bible (meaning the ppl who wrote it) predicted things that are happening as we speak if it is a lie? Any way not to get to off topic I fully support the war and George Bush. GOD BLESS THE TROOPS!!!  

[kennyb27]

Let's not get into a religious debate (or fiasco, whichever you prefer) because that is one sure way to get this thread LOCKED.

[simpsonsfan2003]

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Originally posted by: SSJBonacci2
Can u give me any bit of information about judism that disproves christianity? Im sure that it is a lie! And can you tell me how the Bible (meaning the ppl who wrote it) predicted things that are happening as we speak if it is a lie? Any way not to get to off topic I fully support the war and George Bush. GOD BLESS THE TROOPS!!!

Just research Jewish theology it proves Christianity wrong easily.