Topic: Your misguided sense of loyalty is hurting the games industry

[KDR_11k]

I don't mean specifically the 2600 but other stuff released at the time. Controllers with a number pad on them, anyone?

[Smash_Brother]

Intellivision and Coleco didn't cramp my hands like the dual shock.

[darknight06]

The 5200 barely had any games that really used it in any meaningful way.  There's a reason they went back to the original joystick design of the 2600 with the 7800.  The N64 was one of the first real uses of it, YOU CANNOT DENY THAT!

As for this thread, it's trash.  I'll buy what I want to buy within reason, and that's all there is to it.  A 360 is not in reason and neither is a PS3.  Both are way too expensive for something that supposed to be a leisurely pasttime after you purchase the system, the games, a live subscription in the case of 360, and an HDTV.  I also didn't go buying all 3 systems last generation, mainly because outside of a couple games, there would be a favorite getting the majority of play while the others sit there collecting dust which is as far as I'm concerned it's a waste of money that could go to something far more important.  

Release a quality GAME and I'll buy it, I'm not gonna care who made it.  And when I say game, I'm talking quality design, not ART.  All the art I'll ever want is on my wall and my movie collections, plus the work I do either for myself or for money.   It's the very reason why whenever people bring up ICO, SoTC, Zelda WW, or even Okami I cringe.  You want to talk about non-games, these are borderline.  Yeah they look great, they're "epic", but the game design took a bit of a backseat in all of them.  

[KDR_11k]

Did you play Okami before pronouncing it a non-game? Neither Okami nor Wind Waker are any less of a valid game than, say, Quake. You can make a good game while still going for an unconventional art style.

[darknight06]

I played it, and I sure as hell didn't think much of it.  

[KDR_11k]

So how did you reach the conclusion that it's borderline non-game?

[segagamer12]

I never said it was great just that they *DID* have it first. It doesnt matter who used it best. I know they didn't have much faith in it as envidenced by thier crappy Jaguar controller. All I was saying is Atari had some pretty good innovations back in the day, regardless of what they did with it. YOU CAN NOT DENY THAT EITHER.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: segagamer12
I never said it was great just that they *DID* have it first. It doesnt matter who used it best. I know they didn't have much faith in it as envidenced by thier crappy Jaguar controller. All I was saying is Atari had some pretty good innovations back in the day, regardless of what they did with it. YOU CAN NOT DENY THAT EITHER.

You also cannot deny they were a big factor in gaming crashing either.

[segagamer12]

Well yeah thats true to. I never said contrary to that thought. Well um, so how about that pac-man huh?

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: wandering

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them.  The end.

That's what I'm saying!

Then where's the disagreement?

Besides, I barely have any time for all the Nintendo games I'm buying, so why do you think I should spend more money on more console hardware that in the end is ultimately redundant and takes up space, both physically and mentally? Heck, I HAVE a PC and the next PC game I'm anticipating playing is Age of Conan in like... 8 months!

Also, I enjoyed Call of Duty 3. I NEVER wanted to play that game online or multiplayer, and my dorm blocks the Wii online ports anyways. I'm not even a graphics whore. I wanted a single player experience because that's what I enjoyed from the first CoD on the PC, and I pretty much got it. I'm quite happy with that purchase, especially because I think dual analog FPS control is THE DEVIL. (though I'm having real trouble getting back into Red Steel after having fun with both Call of Duty and Far Cry... hmmm) I HIGHLY enjoy FPS games in the single-player vein (co-op too please? co-op makes almost anything an insta-buy for me!), ignore PvP aspects to them, (if I wanted that I'd play Planetside) and that's why I plan on buying Medal of Honor Vanguard and Brother in Arms in the future.

You may now cry into your chamomille tea with that last bit of news.

Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon? Third party games disappear sooner and have a rougher time of it. When in doubt, delay buying Nintendo-developed games and spend your money where it can make the most difference.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. And your supposed crappy-games actually succeed in this industry and its mainstream wandering. Dismissing them out of hand is, I believe, small-minded.

[darknight06]

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Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon?

That would not be mine, or anyone else's responsibility.  Those developer houses are a BUSINESS, not your friend to nurse.  They can't keep a game on the shelf for over two months, that is THEIR PROBLEM!

For me, a lot of the reason I buy a Nintendo system is to:
 a. play quality Nintendo games (that doesn't mean all, I know which ones are throwaways)
 b. play any quality 3rd party title that comes around.

You holding back your dollar vote on something like Mario Galaxy for a third party title isn't gonna stop me or the majority at least the hardcore audience with a Wii from getting that sucker on launch day.  Doesn't mean I won't get the next Need For Speed or whatever other high profile game that might come out because it's third party, but the first new console Mario in years is definitely going to be higher priority.  Also, I don't have money to throw away on trash.  I know you like to tout Far Cry as being a good game, but there's no way in my right mind that I could justify buying that port of it.  Played it in Gamecrazy and almost puked, which was disappointing to me since that was one game I was anticipating on the system, anticipating in the same sense that I would Mario Galaxy.   I gave DS games more leeway because they were cheaper to get a hold of but I cannot do that for any console.   I better damn well be sure I'm gonna like it before I throw down the cash.

[segagamer12]

or buy them used and save money.  

[darknight06]

When a system first launches, typically used games are about $5 under retail, that's still mid 40s.  By the time they do go down that far, chances are I've got another current title either out or about to be released that I'm looking to get.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: darknight06

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Actually, if anything, I feel that Nintendo fans should NOT be buying Nintendo games. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Nintendo games sell well anyways, and last on the shelves for many months. Mario Galaxy will be on store shelves for a YEAR at least, but how about Space Station Tycoon?

That would not be mine, or anyone else's responsibility.  Those developer houses are a BUSINESS, not your friend to nurse.  They can't keep a game on the shelf for over two months, that is THEIR PROBLEM!

For me, a lot of the reason I buy a Nintendo system is to:
 a. play quality Nintendo games (that doesn't mean all, I know which ones are throwaways)
 b. play any quality 3rd party title that comes around.

But it's a fanbois responsibility. That's what seperates us from regular fans or gamers. *shrug*

Also, I'm not saying you should enjoy FarCry. But the fact is that there are gems out there that are overlooked, and in addition to the difficulty that these games have getting noticed, nintendo gamers overlooking third parties almost instinctively is just another straw on the camel's back. All I'm saying is keep open-minded, even if you don't buy many third party games: don't get into the lazy-minded habit of waiting for the next mario title to the detriment of everything else. That's game prejudice.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[darknight06]

Your responsibility, yeah.  Mine, umm, how about no.  That's not lazy-minded, that's knowing what the hell you want.  Now that I think about it, there are other games out there I know for certain I will get along with that.  DDR Hottest Party. Guitar Hero. Those two are guaranteed.   Strong consideration for Dewy.  Possibly Mercury Revolution, the PSP game was interesting to me.  If the rumor of Guilty Gear XX Accent Core is true, I'll have that as well.

By the way, Bandai Namco isn't some small company.  The group making the game might be, but BN isn't.  They should be able to adequately get the game name recognition and shelf presence for the sales to happen.  If they don't THEY screwed up.  

[Caliban]

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Originally posted by: wandering

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100+ M-I-L-L-I-O-N PS2s were sold...do you really think they needed our support?

It couldn't hurt.

Haha, you're funny...not really...wait let me scratch my armpit so I can giggle...*scratches*...nope, didn't giggle.

[segagamer12]

Then it is matter of *choice* not nescesity. You could *chose* to wait until more games comeout and prices to drop, then buy more games at the lower price. You don't have to get every game you want right now.

If a game is good enough to pay full price, or if it's one you know is good enough to pay full price, then pay full price. If your not sure, then you can always wait for the price to come down, then get the game at a lower price and enjoy it more because you got what you paid for.

A used sale might be on less for Nintendo, but look at it this way, somebody had to own it first for it to be used.  

[TrueNerd]

Except for the "ICO/SotC/Okami is a shallow non-game" comments, there's a lot to agree with in this thread, even if it isn't all presented ideally.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
Your responsibility, yeah.  Mine, umm, how about no.  That's not lazy-minded, that's knowing what the hell you want.  Now that I think about it, there are other games out there I know for certain I will get along with that.  DDR Hottest Party. Guitar Hero. Those two are guaranteed.   Strong consideration for Dewy.  Possibly Mercury Revolution, the PSP game was interesting to me.  If the rumor of Guilty Gear XX Accent Core is true, I'll have that as well.

By the way, Bandai Namco isn't some small company.  The group making the game might be, but BN isn't.  They should be able to adequately get the game name recognition and shelf presence for the sales to happen.  If they don't THEY screwed up.

Why are we arguing? You're doing exactly the thing I'm advocating: not closing your eyes to third party offerings just because they're third party. Being honest with ourselves to know what we want, and being free to buy them (budget allowing of course)... We're espousing the same thing!

...Heck, I found Mercury on the PSP to be boring as hell, but that shouldn't stop you. Just like I bought FarCry, you can consider Mercury on the Wii!!!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[WuTangTurtle]

You know what everyone should do, get a friend and force each other to play a game they normally wouldn't try for a week or two.  If your friend doesn't like it you guys could switch games.  Call it "Gamer 101" i don't care, ppl are willing to play a game when a buddie gives a game some credit.  It never hurts to expand your horizons guys, and this applies to everything not just games.  For instance a buddy of mine got me into FLCL, and I got him into Invader Zim.

[segagamer12]

It doesnt work, my friends like Halo, Madden and Mortal Kombat, everything else they could care less about. Everyone likes Zelda but nobody wants to get it. They all wanna barrow the 1 Gc copy in town.