Topic: Your misguided sense of loyalty is hurting the games industry

[King of Twitch]

If you can blow $$ on a game you don't even want to play.. you have way too much money on your hands, give some to me

[Arbok]

I've just discovered something else related to this: apparently game developers don't get any revenue from used game sales. Shocking I know. So we are all hurting the game industry everytime we buy a used game, making the majority of us awful, awful people... I hardly know how we all sleep at night considering our share of sins.

[wandering]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them.  The end.

That's what I'm saying!

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: wandering
Sony enables good games to be made, isn't that worth supporting?

Over a company that makes good games themself? ...wait, isn't that a counterpoint to this whole argument?

Not over, in addition to.

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Originally posted by: Arbok
I've just discovered something else related to this: apparently game developers don't get any revenue from used game sales. Shocking I know. So we are all hurting the game industry everytime we buy a used game, making the majority of us awful, awful people... I hardly know how we all sleep at night considering our share of sins.

I don't know how you sleep with yourselves either.

No, seriously, look at this way: If you asked a game designer if he minded if you sometimes bought some of his games used, or rented some of them, or borrowed some from a friend, he'd probably say not to worry about it. But if you told him you deliberately tried to make sure not a cent of your money ever went to him, because Sony is evil, he'd probably say he wished you wouldn't do that.

[MarioAllStar]

The only non-Nintendo system I have right now is a Sega Saturn (only because it came my way and I was not going to turn it down). If my financial status permitted, I would buy many classic systems, a PS2, and an Xbox 360. Of course I want to play the best games that I can. For me, Nintendo systems offer a greater selection of appealing games than any of their competitors, so they are the default choice.

I must admit that I felt really torn when considering an Xbox purchase about 4 years ago. I felt that I was betraying Nintendo after all these years. I was 11 at the time, so I had been playing Nintendo for a good 6 or 7 years. Eventually, I bought the system, but then sold it a couple years later. I only owned a couple games and never bought mega hits like Halo. I didn't follow the Xbox scene closely and few games captivated my interest. Now, I want an Xbox 360. Not desperately, but enough so that I would buy one if an excess of money came my way.

The moral of this story is that, although I feel a certain amount of loyalty to Nintendo, I can not let that stop me from exploring other options. You shouldn't either.

[ShyGuy]

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Originally posted by: wandering

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them.  The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

[wandering]

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy

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Originally posted by: wandering

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them.  The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: wandering

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy

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Originally posted by: wandering

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Buy games because you think you'll like them.  The end.

That's what I'm saying!

That's not what you are saying, just admit that Ian pwned you.

I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and that you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I would have probably chose another platform to stick in there.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: wandering
I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I say let people spend their money the way they want to.

I hate to pick on Kairon for this, seeing as how wandering did in the main post, but if he gains satisfaction from knowing he is supporting a company is that wrong? A lot of economics is perception, and some people feel they are getting more mileage for their dollar in thinking that they are supporting a firm they themselves admire… much in the same way that this entire thread was originally created with the intent of supporting talented developers.

We could have a whole similar argument based around the concept of “only buy American made goods!”. Some people are willing to pay more or shop exclusively for American produced items. Are they wrong? Should someone stop them from their beliefs? The practice itself might seem odd to some, hell I import and penny pinch every chance I get, but I won’t go around acting like a higher authority and that I have some sort of right to call out their shopping mannerisms as “wrong” or "narrow minded".

[wandering]

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Originally posted by: Arbok
I say let people spend their money the way they want to.

But when you review a film, aren't you trying to influence people's purchasing decisions?

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We could have a whole similar argument based around the concept of “only buy American made goods!”. Some people are willing to pay more or shop exclusively for American produced items. Are they wrong? Should someone stop them from their beliefs? The practice itself might seem odd to some, hell I import and penny pinch every chance I get, but I won’t go around acting like a higher authority and that I have some sort of right to call out their shopping mannerisms as “wrong” or "narrow minded".

Well, I should think one of the two of you must be wrong.

Kairon has the perception that, by refusing to buy Xbox or Playstation games, he is having a positive influence on the games industry. That perception must be either right or wrong, right? Which is to say, if everyone bought the same things kairon did, either that would lead to more good games (games kairon considers good, I mean) being made, or less. I argue, perhaps more rudely and less tactfully than I should, that kairon's perception is wrong.

...Unless kairon's goal isn't to ensure more good games are made.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: wandering
I think you are guys are misunderstanding me a little. I'm not saying that Okami or Shadow of the Colossus are objectively Good(tm), and that you need to buy them. I'm not saying you need to buy any specific games at all. I'm saying your purchasing decisions should not be driven by the philosophy that buying games for the Xbox or PS2 or PC or NGage is somehow wrong.

I would have probably chose another platform to stick in there.

Well, buying PSP games, that's different. I think we can all agree no one should do that.  

[wandering]

double post
 

[ShyGuy]

Yup, definitely from Oregon...

[segagamer12]

not even close. Im unemployed and running a dead end POS website just to have spending cash. I ususally get my parents to buy me videos games I wont play. Um getting back to topic at hand.


I have changed my loyalty once more. Since my first game systems was an Atari, and my sister got meone for my birthday I am now an Atari fanboy. Go atari. PLus that kick ass DBZ game is made by the company that bought (stole) thier name.


We should all petition Atari and SEGA to team up and make a new game system together. They can call it the Phoenix  


BUY ATARI GAMES FORGET SONY

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: segagamer12
not even close. Im unemployed and running a dead end POS website just to have spending cash. I ususally get my parents to buy me videos games I wont play. Um getting back to topic at hand.


I have changed my loyalty once more. Since my first game systems was an Atari, and my sister got meone for my birthday I am now an Atari fanboy. Go atari. PLus that kick ass DBZ game is made by the company that bought (stole) thier name.


We should all petition Atari and SEGA to team up and make a new game system together. They can call it the Phoenix  


BUY ATARI GAMES FORGET SONY

Hate to break it to you but Sega and Atari are basically names, not real companies anymore. It is sad but true.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: wandering
But when you review a film, aren't you trying to influence people's purchasing decisions?

Depends on the point of view I suppose, but I certainly don't approach it that way. I review films mostly to vent my own feelings about the production, while ending with a general rating in regards to how I think other people might enjoy the film, which has sometimes not been aligned with my own view due to nostalgia and other factors.

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Originally posted by: wandering
Kairon has the perception that, by refusing to buy Xbox or Playstation games, he is having a positive influence on the games industry. That perception must be either right or wrong, right?

Could be argued that way, much like the whole "American product only" debate that I brought up. You could percieve the "pro-American" person as being anti "China", Japan" etc. From that point you could see it as wrong if you like, but I certainly wouldn't start calling them out and acting like a higher authority on the matter.

[segagamer12]

>>>Hate to break it to you but Sega and Atari are basically names, not real companies anymore. It is sad but true<<<


I know, I think I mentiond that in my post too.

Well true for Atari anyways, Sega is still the same as its always been, they've changed owners several times since being established, so just cuz they have new ownership deosnt mean they dont exsist, they still operate in the same buildings, with the same staff and own the same property and have the same games.

Atari I agree is dead. Time Warner broke them into 2 divisions and sold them off seperatley, one to Midway, who gobbled up the IP and disbanned the name, and the other to divison swicthed hands a couple of times before getting bought by Hasbor and turned int Hasbor Interactive, sold that to Infogrames who only wanted the IP and NAME and decided Atari was a more viable name than thier own (sad I know)


Yet Atari and Sega both have a HISTORY and they hold special memeories for millions of people so thier NAMES alone will live forever.



I found that with the wiim being an impusle buyer I am now grabbing VC games like thier candy and have already more than I will liekly get around to playing but keep getting more. So Ill be the first to say this

*raises hand*
"My name is the rat and I have a problem..."  

[stevey]

I agree about gamers should buy good games from 3rd partys, and I even own a xbox/ps2/dreamcast, but I'm still a nintendo fanboy at heart and fully support them because they make the best & greatest games out there. That and reggie=jesus. And do disagree about karion own views about fanboys only buying 1st party nintendo games, but I do think nintendo fanboys and gamer loyalty are 100% necessary. It's our jobs to defend nintendo from being bash by evil $ony/ms fanboys, and spread the word of nintendo to others, and to kill the infidels....

NINTENDO FANBOY FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111  

[wandering]

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I certainly wouldn't start calling them out and acting like a higher authority on the matter.

I don't think I'm a higher authority. I have an opinion, that I obviously think is correct, and I want to convince other people to agree with me. But I'm open to changing my mind. That's why I made this thread - I wanted a discussion. I wanted to hear other people's ideas about what it's good and bad to spend money on. I wasn't trying to get everyone to point at laugh at Kairon. I should have expressed this better in my opening post. It was a mistake to start with an angry open letter.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: wandering Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

That would require spending hours clutching the most horrid controller ever made.

I'll pass.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: wandering Instead, you should be supporting the artists behind Ico, Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami....well, not Okami. Too late for that.

That would require spending hours clutching the most horrid controller ever made.

I'll pass.

It is really quite sad that the PS3 controller is basically the same controller since the original PS1 gamepad (Excluding the oh so innovative dual analog sticks). DERAILED!

[KDR_11k]

I think S_B wasn't around for some of the great innovation during the Atari 2600 period.

[ShyGuy]

The original PS1 controller was much better due to the fact that you just had a d-pad. Granted it's an uncomfortable d-pad, but at least you didn't have to stress your thumb tendons reaching for those analog sticks in the middle. I still haven't tried a Wii classic controller, and I'm kinda leary, but people says it's better because the analog sticks are closer and at a better angle.

[segagamer12]

2600 maynot have been innovative, but 5200 *deserves* the credit for 2 concepts Nintendo always gets the credit for, first being analog stick, second being 4 controller ports.


See how influencial Atari was on thegaming community? Join me in my quest ot revive thier tainted *name.  
















*
(atari fanboyisms are all jokes dont take it seriously Im sega all the way.)

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: segagamer12
2600 maynot have been innovative, but 5200 *deserves* the credit for 2 concepts Nintendo always gets the credit for, first being analog stick, second being 4 controller ports.


See how influencial Atari was on thegaming community? Join me in my quest ot revive thier tainted *name.  
















*
(atari fanboyisms are all jokes dont take it seriously Im sega all the way.)

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the joystick for the Atari nothing like the one on N64 (and I don't mean size wise). If anything though that joystick on Atari is what helped cause the crash of gaming in the 80s, so it gets NO credit.

[segagamer12]

Its actualyl better than N64 crappy analog stick. And 5200 didnt really contribute tot he crash, it came out late in the year and wasn't even a sucessful system.  

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I think S_B wasn't around for some of the great innovation during the Atari 2600 period.

It's still kicking around my parent's house somewhere.