Author Topic: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge  (Read 25605 times)

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« on: October 16, 2009, 11:32:42 AM »
This is the discussion thread for NWR's exclusive Developer Diary feature with Medaverse Studios.

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Jon Lindemann
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 11:47:26 AM »
Hope to read more about the process of making games. I have 500 points so I may download the game.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 12:05:01 PM »
Better not, Nintendo Life gave it a 2/10.

Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 12:08:12 PM »
I have the game, and I'm not sure my review would differ that much from Nintendo Life's.  That said, I have a ton of respect for any developer who's willing to give us a window inside development like Medaverse is doing.  A feature like this pretty much guarantees I'll buy their next game on faith alone.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 05:20:15 PM »
Better not, Nintendo Life gave it a 2/10.

I think while it had a couple of points right that review was pretty harsh. My review while won't be a high score it will be higher than a 2.0.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 09:00:59 PM »
The NintendoLife review brings up a point that I've made forcefully on RFN and often remind our writers during the editing process. Namely, a review should never be about the developer. Behind-the-scenes stores are fascinating, and I appreciate things like this developer diary as a window into what game development is really like. They can be inspiring to other would-be developers or just interesting to a game's fans (or detractors).

But when it comes to a review, the writer should always focus solely on the game itself, as it was released. The game has to stand on its own merits, regardless of the trials and tribulations leading up to its release, regardless of the inexperience or legendary exploits of its creators, and regardless of the pre-release hype or confusion. Reviewers need to review the games, not the people who make the games.

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Plans change, things don't work out the way we expect them to, and release dates slip further and further away. It happens, and it's not infrequently to the benefit of the game. When additional development time is used to iron out bugs or to enhance gameplay, a delayed release is worth waiting for.

Blah, blah, blah. None of this has any bearing on the final game's artistic worth or appeal.

Quote
...precision doesn't seem to have been a concern to the developers...

That is baseless conjecture and an intentional, personal insult. Reviewers should never imply some piercing knowledge of what went right or wrong in development or how decisions were made.

Quote
We have no doubt that a great deal of effort was invested into this game, but it's difficult to figure out where that effort went. In the words of the developer: Medaverse Studios started as three guys who knew nothing about game development wanting to develop games. This statement should act as a stark reminder to all would-be WiiWare developers – the "great" idea in your head may not translate into a game that others would enjoy.

What does any of this have to do with reviewing the game? If you want to send such a direct message to the game's developers... send them a direct message! Don't veil your condescending, unwanted advice in the cloak of an all-points bulletin to "all would-be WiiWare developers". Don't refer to the developers at all in your review. They've done their work; now do yours and write about the damn game.

I'm not saying the review is wrong about Gravitronix; I haven't played the game myself. I might agree with every critical point in that article. All I'm saying is that the author should seriously reconsider why he is writing game reviews, and what they should be about, and what is truly appropriate. We all know that developers read reviews. Don't talk down to them. Don't pretend you know what they went through. Don't throw a party or funeral for them. Just review their game in a fair, honest, and critical manner.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2009, 09:59:58 PM »
That review reminds me of the whole Destructoid/Luc Bernard fiasco. Like Destructoid, Nintendo Life had a close tie to the developers, offering exclusive info, and even being the first to report on the game's existence. Then the review hit and BAM! Nothing but bashing the developer. The difference is that Luc Bernard decided to pick a fight (even though he had the right to defend himself), while Medaverse Studios just apologized for the game's quality and moved on. It's almost as if that's what Nintendo Life wanted; they wanted a flaming review that would attract a lot of attention, comments, and maybe show off a nasty side of Medaverse, but instead it backfired, and it made THEM look bad.

I agree with what Johnny said. It can be very easy for a review to forget that he/she is doing professional writing, and should write as a reviewer, not a fan. When I wrote the ColorZ review I was upset over how the game's single player mode has you controlling three spaceships using three control methods. It downright frustrated me. But I realized that I couldn't do a raging review because that goes against the site's review policy. I could have even used a line from an email we got about ColorZ. But again, decided to focus on the game itself.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2009, 07:45:42 AM »
The problem is that developers intentionally try to make people care for them and buy their games out of sympathy for the developer, not the actual game's merits. By now this is a recognized marketing strategy and it's why you see tons of blogs, developer diaries, etc on IGN and its ilk.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2009, 10:11:56 AM »
Yep, it's now called "interacting with your community".  Developers court fanboyism, hoping to engender loyalty and "sympathy" for their game.  This can backfire, too, because some developers get overexposed and people start hating them.

Game development is (typically) such a complex process nowadays, it's hard to blame any one person for one certain failing of a game.  Even the best design can be executed poorly.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2009, 11:10:33 AM »
The thing is, with small developers like Medaverse the one of the ways of promoting a game is via the gaming community. They certainly can't afford to create a mass marketing campaign so the only way to get the word out about a game is to interact with the community. But like its been explained already, it can serve as a double edged sword. So either the developer must handle it well or face ridicule in a similar manner to the Luc Bernard experience.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2009, 12:50:40 AM »
The developers/publishers should pursue any ethical marketing strategy they think will work. All I'm saying is that marketing strategies, including humanizing the development process, should not factor into a professional or semi-professional review.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 10:40:16 AM »
Better not, Nintendo Life gave it a 2/10.

Actually, that's the worst review out there right now. It's getting mostly 7s from other reviews (reviews that have some similar concerns but don't insult the developers personally).

Everyone seems to agree that the robot telling you to take a break every two rounds is the worst part of the game.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 02:37:03 PM »
The only ones I see listed on MetaCritic are NintendoLife and GamePro who gave it a 5/10.

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2009, 03:32:34 PM »
That review reminds me of the whole Destructoid/Luc Bernard fiasco.

Speaking of which, what the Hell happened to the WiiWare release of Eternity's Child?  It's been out on PC for over a year.

Last I heard they were completely overhauling the game for WiiWare but that was a looooooooooooong time ago.  I hope it hasn't been canceled--I loved he art in the game and I'd really like to get it assuming it doesn't play like ass.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 04:21:16 PM »
That review reminds me of the whole Destructoid/Luc Bernard fiasco.

Speaking of which, what the Hell happened to the WiiWare release of Eternity's Child?  It's been out on PC for over a year.

Last I heard they were completely overhauling the game for WiiWare but that was a looooooooooooong time ago.  I hope it hasn't been canceled--I loved he art in the game and I'd really like to get it assuming it doesn't play like ass.

Last I read, Luc was still around working on some projects. But yeah, mum's the word about Eternity's Child.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2009, 02:50:18 AM »
Last I heard Luc doesn't even know what the dev in charge of the port is doing.

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2009, 09:48:49 AM »
So when is the next part going up Lindy?
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2009, 01:09:38 PM »
So when is the next part going up Lindy?

Hopefully sometime on Thursday or Friday.
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 09:24:51 PM »
Or Wednesday!  BOO-YAH!!!
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 09:34:41 PM »
Yes, the next chapter is already up, so go check it out. It's called "The Inception".
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2009, 04:00:41 PM »
The third chapter came in a little late, but it's a good one. It's called "The Mistakes"

Read more...

This is a very important entry, especially if people want to pursue game development as a career.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2009, 01:23:06 PM »
I've read quite a bit about the focus testing for Gravitronix and how it lead the team to believe the game would be received better than it actually has been. Like any testing, focus testing is a complex process in which many factors can give you false results. I've never done focus testing for a video game, but as an engineer, I do know something about testing (in general) that may apply to focus testing as well. Here are some ideas to improve focus testing in the future:

- Test many different configurations. Not just "blue ocean" and "core" groups but single-player and multiplayer, 5-minute impressions versus long-term play (maybe over several days), etc.

- Be careful in how you collect feedback. Most people will send different signals in face-to-face interviews than on anonymous written forms. You may want to get a combination of both. And think carefully about the questions you ask and how they are phrased, so you don't lead participants into the answers you want.

- Observe people playing the game naturally. This means handing them a controller and walking away. Most potential customers don't have a developer standing there to give introductory comments, explain the themes of the game, or give instructions on how to play. You have to allow people to get confused, even frustrated, in order to see where improvements are needed.

- If at all possible, let game journalists, zealous fanboys, and other game developers play your game. These people are going to be the most critical. It's okay to get feedback from people who will be more critical than your target customers. If you can please the most pessimistic players, those with lower expectations will be even more pleased.

There are probably some good articles about focus testing games at Gamasutra and/or Game Developer magazine.
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Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2009, 07:22:43 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Johnny.

All playtesters were given what I call the "American Idol" speech (all except one group who I wasn't there for, but was a group of brutally-honest fanboys anyway) in which I point out the poor saps who go on American Idol and get torn to shreds and how odd it is that this person didn't have a friend or family member step in to stop them from humiliating him/herself on national TV. We explained that they (the playtesters) were the equivalent of that friend who could save us from bad reviews and whatnot.

We tested by turning the game on and going to either sit down to take notes or sit in the corner and observe. We were doing this in the shared-space office conference room that we have so we didn't have many options when it came to how to perform the playtests. But we basically put the controllers in their hands and said "We can't answer your questions but shout them out anyway." and boy, did they ever.

We did the best we could to subtract ourselves from the equation and most of the playtesters took that to heart by swearing like sailors as if they were truly just alone with their friends. We got a great deal of valuable information from just observing the playtesters or noting their complaints. We added the cooldown to the repel beam based on the fact that one playtester figured out he could button mash and successfully defend his territory (we had talked about adding it already, but this cemented the fact that it would be a necessity). The team menu saw a good deal of enhancement based upon how confused people became when they tried to put more than 2 players into a quarter territory: we made a red X appear over the territory just to make it clearer and changed the tooltip to notify the players that there was a team with too many players in it so the game couldn't begin.

The one thing we didn't do was have extended playtests over a span of a few days, and that was largely because these people were here on a volunteer basis and were getting absolutely nothing in compensation for this service (except some pizza and soda we bought for some groups). In hindsight, we should've have groups come back in repeatedly, but this would be asking people to volunteer more of their time than most would probably want to. I'd love to have game journalists test our games in the future and maybe tradeshows will allow us to do just that (I don't see many journalists coming up to New Hampshire just to test a WiiWare game, heh).

For what it's worth, I think the game is fun, as did the majority of the playtesters and people we showed it to, and we've seen some reviews from other sites that gave it 7s and an 8. The only thing I can conclude is that it clicks with some people and they enjoy it while others don't, and all things considered, it's not surprising. We didn't expect for the game to appeal to everyone.

As far as I'm concerned, making a first game that clicks with anyone at ALL is a home run. ;)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 09:04:49 PM by JLowther »

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2009, 09:19:15 PM »
I am somewhat interested in the game Jessie. What can you tell me that would increase that interest?
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Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2009, 11:21:54 PM »
I am somewhat interested in the game Jessie. What can you tell me that would increase that interest?

Honestly, I'm hoping the tests of WiiWare demos goes well because it's basically impossible to know if Gravitronix would click with you or not.

It's too experimental of a game of pin down where it even should fall in genre, other than "action" which is basically a blanket term for "games that require reflexes". The only game it can even remotely be compared to is "Warlords" from the Atari days (it wasn't the inspiration for the game, but it's the closest comparison people make) but even then, there's a huge difference between Grav and Warlords (four projectiles with different properties vs. one projectile, for a start).

I'd consider it if you have others to play with, even a family member you can play through campaign mode with. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but who this game will or won't click with is still very much a mystery to me (and everyone).

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 02:45:34 AM »
Well I appreciate the push in a direction. Warlords is a little before my time.NES was my first system. I'll check out some videos of the two.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 04:09:52 PM »
Since I don't think I'd go into this kind of detail in the feature (I should be talking less about the game and more about the process, after all) let me explain what we were TRYING to offer the seasoned/veteran gamer...

At its highest level, the real goal of Gravitronix is to send two or more projectiles at your opponent at once and force them to take damage/be defeated and to prevent the opponent from doing the same to you. Opportunities to do this are constantly appearing and disappearing, as the arena itself is in a constant state of kinetic flux. After playing the game for long enough, I find you begin to see these opportunities coming beforehand and are more likely to be ready to take advantage of them when they appear.

Naturally, a new player will not see any of this depth, but that's okay because I've had a 40-something religious woman drop six S-bombs in a single round because the simple goal of "don't let crap into your territory" is generally enough to keep new players excited. Really, anyone can pick up this game, twist the controller and press the A button and effectively be accomplishing the goal of defending the territory. This tends to work even better on a two player team as a skilled player can be offense while a newer player is on defense.

But back to the depth: there is nothing happening on screen that is not relevant to your success/failure. If a sphere is drifting slowly, you can strike it with an explosive projectile and send it at your opponent from an unexpected angle. If a shard has just acquired its 3rd speed mark (meaning it now has a full 2X speed multiplier) that's relevant, and if one opponent is simply sitting there and holding that shard, biding his/her time until a vulnerability opens up, you'd best believe it's relevant.

Beyond that, one of the best tools skilled players have at their disposal is the repel beam. If you tap A/C right as a projectile is immediately in front of you, you'll cancel its current velocity and immediately repel it an at angle relative to your paddle at the time (think of timing sword swings to send Ganon's magic attacks back at him and you have the basic idea).

But the real beauty of the system is that, because the angle is relative, EVERY half-degree of twist on the remote or nunchuk factors into where you will send that projectile. There's also a reward system built into the beam: if you hit with it, you'll hear a specific sound effect, a speed mark will be added to the projectile (making it faster), and you will immediately be able to follow up with another repel hit. If you miss, however, you must wait for a half-second cooldown before you can fire either of your beams. This prevents button mashing and rewards players for accuracy, all the while allowing them to quickly aim projectiles for any part of the arena they wish to assault, if they're precise enough in their aim, of course.

There is a definite hardcore experience to be had in Gravitronix, but the question remains whether or not people will ever take the game that far. I took it that far, but that's only due to the hundreds of hours of playtesting I did personally (I still enjoy playing it, though I trounce any human opponents for the aforementioned reasons so no one will play against me). It might just be that the early stages of gameplay don't make the lurking depth apparent enough to keep people playing long enough to discover it. If that's the case, then this would be the biggest misstep we made with the game (though, figuring out how to entice players to become veteran players at a game is a pretty tall order for a first game from a green startup :P).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 04:14:34 PM by JLowther »

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 09:56:40 PM »
Jessie - thanks for becoming a part of our community.
I'll pick up and try out the game just for that.

...just pray I don't regret it though... ;)
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Offline Smash_Brother

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2009, 11:24:54 PM »
Should be interesting to see what other folks think of it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 11:30:26 PM by Smash_Brother »
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 02:29:15 PM »
Jessie - thanks for becoming a part of our community.
I'll pick up and try out the game just for that.

...just pray I don't regret it though... ;)

Thanks for the patronage. :)

I recommend trying it with at least one other player (campaign co-op is great for this). Also, press "12221" at the options menu to access all of the extra options and the level select in campaign mode if you find the training levels too easy.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 03:17:44 PM »
I personally enjoyed the hot potatoes mode as well as the co-op mode in campaign mode. Hot Potatoes is so simple to the point of being relaxing, yet it can be hectic trying to be one guy repelling all incoming spheres.

To me, Gravitronix is a lot like Mario Party. It can be a fun multiplayer game, but the players must be into it. I know from experience that if one of two players don't care about the game they are playing the experience is ruined and quickly wish to play another. If the mixed reviews are any indication Gravitronix has that same problem. It either clicks on you or it doesn't and when it doesn't the value drops rapidly.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 03:29:14 PM by NWR_pap64 »
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 07:36:00 PM »
The newest entry in our feature is up!

What We Did Right.

Another important entry if you wish to pursue game development.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 08:28:11 PM »
I enjoyed how you talked about how to take critisim for ones work. Nobody is perfect. There are people in all walks of life that continue to refine what they do even though they have been doing it forever. One can not improve oneself unless they can open their eyes and ears.
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Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2009, 09:18:32 PM »
I would've used actual examples but I didn't think it prudent in the feature. Some of the most beloved developers in the industry have had reviewers and fans turn on them when they made a game in a genre they didn't like.

If 20 years in the industry doesn't protect you from it, nothing will.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 09:28:34 PM by JLowther »

Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2009, 11:24:40 PM »
Well I'm sure we know a few developers that have acted in the way you discribed.So it wasn't needed.

Look forward to the next part.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2009, 02:58:09 PM »
This new entry ("What We Did Right") is my favorite so far. There are some great lessons in there for anyone with development dreams.
THE LAMB IS WATCHING!

Offline vudu

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2009, 04:05:11 PM »
I'm really enjoying this series.  I have some thoughts and questions that I hope Jesse is willing to address--and if not, no hard feelings.

I'll preface by saying that I have absolutely zero interest in Gravitronix, mainly because I'm an old curmudgeon and play most games alone.  A game that is so multiplayer-centric just doesn't appeal to me.  Ten years ago--when my friends and I were addicted to Smash Bros just as much as Jesse was--I would have at least given the game a chance.

First, Nintendo implemented SD card support over 6 months before Gravitronix was released and we knew something was in the pipeline even before that.  Why didn't you go back and improve the graphics once you knew cleaning the fridge wouldn't be an issue for most gamers?  Since you knew graphics were so important it seems like once the space restriction was lifted that would have been a no-brainer.  I imagine the game was too far into development to use Nintendo's pre-made toolset but switching out some of the existing graphics for higher-resolution assets doesn't seem like it would have been a lot of work.  (Keep in mind that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, so if I'm mistaken about the amount of work it would have been feel free to tell me to pull my head out of my ass.)

Second, why did you choose a $5 price point for the game?  Did you do any studies to see what people thought the game was worth or analysis to determine this was the best way to maximize revenue?  Or was it just shooting-from-the-hip, "X is what it cost to make the game so Y is what it should cost"?  Personally, when I see a WiiWare game that costs 500 points I'm wary--for that price I'm expecting a port of a Flash game (Defend Your Castle) or a hastily thrown together game that's targeted towards people who don't know any better (any of the 'Family' games).  I wonder whether the game would have fared better at $8 or $10--not necessarily in critical reception but in sales.

Finally, can you speak at all about the sales of Gravitronix?  I know the game's only been out a month.  I don't know how long-tailed most WiiWare games are--there are some mainstays on the weekly top 20 list, but most games seem to fall off after a few weeks--but considering the lack of advertising I'd be surprised if most titles didn't sell a good portion of their lifetime sales within the first month.

Thank you for taking the time to do these articles.  It's not often that developers are willing to give so much insight into their project, especially if it entails anything negative.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2009, 04:35:21 PM »
First, Nintendo implemented SD card support over 6 months before Gravitronix was released and we knew something was in the pipeline even before that.  Why didn't you go back and improve the graphics once you knew cleaning the fridge wouldn't be an issue for most gamers?  Since you knew graphics were so important it seems like once the space restriction was lifted that would have been a no-brainer.  I imagine the game was too far into development to use Nintendo's pre-made toolset but switching out some of the existing graphics for higher-resolution assets doesn't seem like it would have been a lot of work.  (Keep in mind that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, so if I'm mistaken about the amount of work it would have been feel free to tell me to pull my head out of my ass.)

It was basically too late (and I honestly didn't know if there would be a solution coming). All of the art assets had been made and the framework to load them had also been built. It would've been a huge, sweeping change very late in the development process, plus most of the staff did want to still keep the game as small as possible since A) it could still help as not everyone has an SD card and B) it's what we set out to do and had mentioned doing in articles already.

Also, we had started testing at that point and not a one of the playtesters EVER complained about the graphics. They complained about plenty of things (most of which we fixed) but the graphics were never one of them. That led us to believe that it wouldn't be a problem (oops).

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Second, why did you choose a $5 price point for the game?  Did you do any studies to see what people thought the game was worth or analysis to determine this was the best way to maximize revenue?  Or was it just shooting-from-the-hip, "X is what it cost to make the game so Y is what it should cost"?  Personally, when I see a WiiWare game that costs 500 points I'm wary--for that price I'm expecting a port of a Flash game (Defend Your Castle) or a hastily thrown together game that's targeted towards people who don't know any better (any of the 'Family' games).  I wonder whether the game would have fared better at $8 or $10--not necessarily in critical reception but in sales.

We chose (and announced) the price a while back because we figured it would help people on their decision to buy the game. $5 isn't much to ask and, being a brand new developer, we figured it was the best choice. I think an $8-10 pricetag would've only pushed more people away from it.

Also, a lot our good reviews came from critics who specifically mentioned the pricetag as a selling point for the game. We weren't trying to make a game that would change the world, only a game that would be a fun $5 game to entertain a group of people.

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Finally, can you speak at all about the sales of Gravitronix?  I know the game's only been out a month.  I don't know how long-tailed most WiiWare games are--there are some mainstays on the weekly top 20 list, but most games seem to fall off after a few weeks--but considering the lack of advertising I'd be surprised if most titles didn't sell a good portion of their lifetime sales within the first month.

Sales haven't exactly been stellar. We've been trying some advertising here and there but the biggest issue we face is that, on first glance, no one can understand what the hell is going on in the game. We could advertise the game to death and we probably still wouldn't get much in the way of results. Our desire to create something new and different backfired in a big way. There's really no game out there like Gravitronix, and that turned out to be its greatest failing as well. It's also hard to find any visibility in the current market. I still don't think most people even know the game exists at this point.

My guess is that, in reality, the very FIRST trailer for the game has to sell people on the concept or you're basically screwed. In our case, the first trailer was tested on a number of people time and again until they approved, then we released it and all it managed to do was confuse and anger people. I'm still not sure what went wrong, but all I know is that the trailer didn't jibe with people and that seemed to be the beginning of the end.

We'll hopefully have some more videos up on the Nintendo Channel soon and we might be getting a booth at PAX East where we can demo the game for people. The fact that critics have been so divided about the game is probably the only reason I'm still looking into promoting it. If they were unanimous in disliking the game, it'd probably just be time to call it quits (as much as it would pain me to do so), but the fact that it's roughly 50/50 with good and bad reviews makes me believe there's still a market out there. We just need to figure out how to reach it.

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Thank you for taking the time to do these articles.  It's not often that developers are willing to give so much insight into their project, especially if it entails anything negative.

If nothing else, it makes for an interesting story and a cautionary tale.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 04:58:13 PM by JLowther »

Offline vudu

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2009, 05:05:27 PM »
Thank you for your answers!  I kind of suspected what you said regarding my first question.

I'm still a little iffy on the reasoning behind the $5 price point.  There's a good chance I simply can't get into the mindset of the average consumer, but again, when I see a $5 game on WiiWare my expectations for the game drop tremendously.  I think a slightly higher price point gives the consumer the idea that a game is worth their time (and to a lesser extent their money).  As a consumer, if you tell me your product is only worth $5 I question why I'd even want to spend any time on the game.  I'd rather pay $8 or $10 for a game that I might really enjoy than $5 on something that I think is just a waste of money.  (I'm speaking hypothetically here--please don't read anything into the quality of your game from these statements.)
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2009, 05:43:54 PM »
Thank you for your answers!  I kind of suspected what you said regarding my first question.

I'm still a little iffy on the reasoning behind the $5 price point.  There's a good chance I simply can't get into the mindset of the average consumer, but again, when I see a $5 game on WiiWare my expectations for the game drop tremendously.  I think a slightly higher price point gives the consumer the idea that a game is worth their time (and to a lesser extent their money).  As a consumer, if you tell me your product is only worth $5 I question why I'd even want to spend any time on the game.  I'd rather pay $8 or $10 for a game that I might really enjoy than $5 on something that I think is just a waste of money.  (I'm speaking hypothetically here--please don't read anything into the quality of your game from these statements.)

True, and at this point, that is the sentiment regarding $5 games.

Like I said, though, we announced the price point years ago so any change would've been going back on our word (something I'm going to try hard to avoid doing).

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2009, 06:06:25 PM »
Vudu: Not all WiiWare titles that are budget priced are considered crap or lacking effort. The way I see it, the cheap price tag helps games that are unknown or the concept might be strange for some. For example, the Art Style series on WiiWare is priced at 600 Wii points. Carnival King (a game I recently reviewed) is priced at 700, and the game is very polished.

It all depends on how the developer views the product and how much work has gone into it. A game like Lost Winds and NyxQuest that costs 1000 Wii points is understandable because these games are very elaborate, has good graphics and a lot of time and money was spent advertising.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2009, 06:20:09 PM »
There's really no game out there like Gravitronix
I think that this is a dangerous statement to make. Have you played the tens of thousands of games in existence? Can you really say with certainty that no other game is like Gravitronix? From the videos on YouTube it looks like an 8-player version of air hockey. Of course, I've never heard of anyone creating a more advanced version of air hockey, but it's still a game that's similar.

Though this still has me curious about the game. When reviews are split then I don't believe any single one of them, it's then up to me to decide if it's something I'd like. And I didn't know that it was just 500 points, that definitely makes it easier to try something of which I'm unsure. I just need to figure out if this is something my sister would like.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2009, 06:38:01 PM »
Actually one of the reviews made that statement as well. I think they mean that there aren't any other eight player titles on WiiWare, much less one that uses the Wii Remote and Nunchuck.

I don't know if this will help, Mop, but the game is a great co-op title. I played the entire campaign mode with a relative and we had a lot of fun coming up with strategies, trying to defend our shields and celebrating victories. It depends if you and your sister are into co-op games, because then you would be helping each other rather than battling.
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Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2009, 06:42:39 PM »
There's really no game out there like Gravitronix
I think that this is a dangerous statement to make. Have you played the tens of thousands of games in existence? Can you really say with certainty that no other game is like Gravitronix? From the videos on YouTube it looks like an 8-player version of air hockey. Of course, I've never heard of anyone creating a more advanced version of air hockey, but it's still a game that's similar.

Though this still has me curious about the game. When reviews are split then I don't believe any single one of them, it's then up to me to decide if it's something I'd like. And I didn't know that it was just 500 points, that definitely makes it easier to try something of which I'm unsure. I just need to figure out if this is something my sister would like.

What I mean is that there's no game players can readily compare it to and say "I liked _____, therefore I'll like Gravitronix." Even air hockey isn't the best comparison because there's only one puck and no explosions (unless you count the puck flying off the table).

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2009, 06:48:52 PM »
What I mean is that there's no game players can readily compare it to and say "I liked _____, therefore I'll like Gravitronix."
I guess the statement is just to show confidence in the product, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that such remarks tend to come off as arrogance to me. Of course, I don't think you meant it that way at all, as you seem like a very humble and level-headed person.

I don't know if you can answer this or not, but were any females a part of your focus testing? What did they have to say?

I don't know if this will help, Mop, but the game is a great co-op title. It depends if you and your sister are into co-op games, because then you would be helping each other rather than battling.
Yeah, my sister isn't competitive, so she doesn't usually want to play any games which don't allow for teams.

Offline vudu

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2009, 06:51:43 PM »
Vudu: Not all WiiWare titles that are budget priced are considered crap or lacking effort.

Of course this isn't the case for all games of this price point.  All $10+ games aren't highly polished endeavors either.  But a price point is a quick, easy way to assess a game's worth.  It's a rule of thumb that holds true more often than not.  As a lazy consumer with no vested interested in a new title like Gravitronix there's little reason for me to seek out information on this game.  If I were Joe consumer I'd see Gravitronix pop up somewhere (Nintendo newsletter, shop channel, whatever) wonder to myself what it is, see the low price point and assume it's shovelware.  If it were $10 I'd ask 'what is this game and why does it command that price'.  It might motivate me to look further into it.  But I see where Madaverse is coming from since it announced the price point a long time ago and didn't want to change it.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2009, 08:15:04 PM »
I guess the statement is just to show confidence in the product, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that such remarks tend to come off as arrogance to me. Of course, I don't think you meant it that way at all, as you seem like a very humble and level-headed person.

Oh, I didn't mean "There's nothing like it" as in "It's the best game ever". I meant it as "Good luck figuring out which genre it fits into" which is seldom a good thing. People like genres and being able to adhere to their favorite genres. The fact that there is no real genre Grav fits into other than "action" hurts it because it's hard to recommend Grav to people if you have nothing to compare it to.

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I don't know if you can answer this or not, but were any females a part of your focus testing? What did they have to say?

We did, and they seemed to like it just fine. What you'd get out of the game in the long run hinges more on gamer skill than gender. I've played the game co-op with all kinds of gamers, though. As long as you have one skilled player, you can generally hold up in teams.

People seem to pick up the game very quickly, too.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2009, 01:18:20 AM »
People like genres and being able to adhere to their favorite genres. The fact that there is no real genre Grav fits into other than "action" hurts it because it's hard to recommend Grav to people if you have nothing to compare it to.
I'm tempted to call it an "action puzzle" game but even that doesn't seem exactly right. Calling it an arcade game might work since it seems like something that might be a hit in an arcade. Though, I do think you're right. This game exposes an unsettling problem with consumers today, many of them are weary to try new things. Anything that isn't tied to some established franchise is going to have trouble, especially something which can't easily be explained in words. I'm not sure if anyone unwilling to try new things would get a game like this at any price point.

Of course, I have to commend you for creating the game you wanted to make even realizing that it may not be well-received. I always appreciate that sort of artistic vision.

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What you'd get out of the game in the long run hinges more on gamer skill than gender. I've played the game co-op with all kinds of gamers, though. As long as you have one skilled player, you can generally hold up in teams.

People seem to pick up the game very quickly, too.
Well, I don't know if I'd say I have gamer skill, but I do have years of experience. My sister though, is probably what you might call a "non-gamer" but what I'd rather call a "casual" gamer because it doesn't sound condescending. She isn't a fan of difficult games, and doesn't really have much patience when it comes to learning a game. So, the controls are one thing which worry me, because if she doesn't pick up on it right away then I don't think she would stick with it.

I still might get Gravitronix anyway though. I like games with lots of mayhem, and this one looks pretty wild. I'm sure I could do a lot worse for $5 so it isn't like I have much to lose.

Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2009, 01:43:46 AM »
Well, I don't know if I'd say I have gamer skill, but I do have years of experience. My sister though, is probably what you might call a "non-gamer" but what I'd rather call a "casual" gamer because it doesn't sound condescending. She isn't a fan of difficult games, and doesn't really have much patience when it comes to learning a game. So, the controls are one thing which worry me, because if she doesn't pick up on it right away then I don't think she would stick with it.

I wouldn't worry about difficulty, as the game eases you in VERY gently at the start. I've watched my 65 year old mother play the game and even she does alright. If you're playing through campaign mode on a team, she'll do just fine. The later levels definitely get harder, but as you get through them, it definitely feels like team victory.

Even if you don't have a group of friends to play with, you can treat Grav like a party game with non-gamers and still get pretty good results from what I've found. I've seen enough non-gamers yell at the projectiles to know that they definitely get into it.

Also, you can definitely set the game to be plenty chaotic (and the later levels can get pretty chaotic as well).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 02:10:34 AM by JLowther »

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2009, 01:04:00 PM »
Latest chapter is up! Called "The Development", Jesse talks about how the development process for Gravitronix was like, and provides some sage word of advice for anyone with a dream.

Read more.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2009, 02:08:21 PM »
I'm still really digging this series!

I have a few questions for Jesse about the development and Medaverse Studios in general.  Is this your full-time job or a second job/pet-project?  How about the rest of the team?  Do you have an office in an office building or is it something less formal such as a space setup in someone's home?
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2009, 02:52:22 PM »
I'm still really digging this series!

I have a few questions for Jesse about the development and Medaverse Studios in general.  Is this your full-time job or a second job/pet-project?  How about the rest of the team?  Do you have an office in an office building or is it something less formal such as a space setup in someone's home?

We were all part time (which was another reason it took so long) and we leased a 160 sq ft office space to work in as a necessity, since Nintendo doesn't want development hardware sitting in people's home offices (a sentiment I agree with).

We worked it as a 2nd job. For the past two years, I basically went from my day job to the Medaverse office. I ate, slept and breathed the development of the game, really. It was kind of a jarring feeling when it was finally finished because I had had my mind buried in it for so long (like having dreams about school years later).

With all of the issues we faced, it's basically a miracle the game ever made it to market. Regardless of how well it was received, the fact that we were able to actually get it out the door was a victory in itself.

I'll be the first to admit that luck was involved in a number of places: we were lucky to start looking into Wii development so early.  We were lucky to find help on craigslist, including Jeff, the industry veteran who is helping to guide our development process on the next game as well. Right now, we're going through a process of him explaining how things are typically done in an actual development scenario and scolding us for jumping the gun and going nuts on concepts.

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2009, 12:11:06 PM »
I don't know why this flew over my head before, but I sat down and read all five articles in this developer diary today. Firstly, I just have to say that that it was been a very insightful read -- I'd like to give props to Jesse Lowther for giving these behind-the-scenes look at Gravitronix. It's refreshing to see a developer talk so freely and honestly about their game.

If you don't mind answering them, Jesse, I've got a couple of questions on this overarching topic.

I'll start with the subject lots of people are eager to know about. This is concerning Nintendo's involvement. I'm sure you frequently get these ones in interviews, but how closely involved were Nintendo on the project? How helpful were they in both the development and publishing phases? What is your opinion of the way release dates are handed out, the way the profitability policy works and the way the WiiWare service is managed in general?
This line of enquiry is common, I know, but I sometimes get the feeling developers aren't always giving their real feelings on the matter when questions like these are asked. You seem to be an honest, truthful guy, more so than most for sure, so I'd be interested to hear what you think based on your experience dealing with Nintendo whilst making this game.

My other question is more to do with the future of your studio. Do you have any other pipe dreams that you'd like to make a reality on WiiWare? After reading through this feature, I'm more intrigued about what else you and the rest of the Medaverse team could produce (I think the concept of Gravitronix is sound, but the reviews put me off, I'm afraid). The pages about 'The Mistakes' and 'What We Did Right' tell me that you've learned well from your debut effort, which is more than I can say about certain big-name developers. If you have more ideas as unique as Gravitronix, and you can learn from the errors of the past to make the execution better, I can guarantee that I'll be keeping an eye on anything you announce in the future.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2009, 08:10:55 PM »
I'll start with the subject lots of people are eager to know about. This is concerning Nintendo's involvement. I'm sure you frequently get these ones in interviews, but how closely involved were Nintendo on the project? How helpful were they in both the development and publishing phases? What is your opinion of the way release dates are handed out, the way the profitability policy works and the way the WiiWare service is managed in general?
This line of enquiry is common, I know, but I sometimes get the feeling developers aren't always giving their real feelings on the matter when questions like these are asked. You seem to be an honest, truthful guy, more so than most for sure, so I'd be interested to hear what you think based on your experience dealing with Nintendo whilst making this game.

In total honesty, WiiWare devs are treated like any other 3rd party, and it's for the best. There's no special or restrictive treatment involved. Release dates are on the basis of "when it's ready, it gets released" (or a date is found for it, at least). Nintendo answers basically any question you ask of them and is always ready to point you in the right direction if you need them. I think the pricing structure works fine. In fact, my only complaint about the entire process is that the Wii's market is still incredibly hard to read. I've heard of WiiWare games that have received some very good reviews across the board having terrible sales and games that get terrible reviews have had great sales. Seriously, "My Aquarium" hasn't left the top 5 in months. What gives?

But yeah, we had total creative freedom, just like any other 3rd party would.

Quote
My other question is more to do with the future of your studio. Do you have any other pipe dreams that you'd like to make a reality on WiiWare? After reading through this feature, I'm more intrigued about what else you and the rest of the Medaverse team could produce (I think the concept of Gravitronix is sound, but the reviews put me off, I'm afraid). The pages about 'The Mistakes' and 'What We Did Right' tell me that you've learned well from your debut effort, which is more than I can say about certain big-name developers. If you have more ideas as unique as Gravitronix, and you can learn from the errors of the past to make the execution better, I can guarantee that I'll be keeping an eye on anything you announce in the future.

That's pretty heavily in debate right now. I have piles of unique ideas, but we're a bit wary of developing another "unique" idea at the risk of releasing a game that people once again don't get from looking at it. Unless people can get a basic understanding of the game from single screenshot, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to develop it. This is actually one of the reasons I'm so psyched for WiiWare demos and why I hope they arrive soon. I'm sure Gravitronix would be doing much better, if only people could try it for themselves to see if they like it. As the reviews have shown, it's a game that divides people, so much so that I'm wary about recommending it to people because I still have no idea why some reviewers give it 2s while others give it 7s. That's a huge divide, so again, I hope to see demos soon for this exact reason. At that time, we'd probably be more likely to bring out a unique idea because people could try it via demo and see how they like it.

Given the size of our studio and the fact that we still lack funding of any kind, we'd be looking at a minimum of a year to do a proper job developing a game, and then we have to look at the Wii's lifespan. If our development time ran long, we might be looking at the end of the console's life (I have no actual idea. I'm just speculating). Bottom line, we're just not sure right now. We're taking a hard look at platformers and what we might be able to do with one of those, but it's all still very much up in the air.

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2009, 09:39:47 PM »
In fact, my only complaint about the entire process is that the Wii's market is still incredibly hard to read. I've heard of WiiWare games that have received some very good reviews across the board having terrible sales and games that get terrible reviews have had great sales. Seriously, "My Aquarium" hasn't left the top 5 in months. What gives?

This is true. Many WiiWare games get trashed to no end, yet somehow become HUGE hits. My Pokemon Ranch is another example. It's basically an interactive app for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, but people won't stop buying it. Pong Toss is another game that got a lot of sales, but it was mainly due to the controversy surrounding the game. Yet, NyxQuest, which got excellent reviews, was selling for a week or two, then dropped like a rock.

I agree that the WiiWare audience is weird to figure out.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2009, 09:54:27 PM »
The funny thing about my case is, I would actually be more likely to buy WiiWare games if they were released on disc. That's right, I'm one of the proud few who purchased the retail version of Groovin' Blocks despite that it cost twice as much.

Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2009, 11:04:34 PM »
The funny thing about my case is, I would actually be more likely to buy WiiWare games if they were released on disc. That's right, I'm one of the proud few who purchased the retail version of Groovin' Blocks despite that it cost twice as much.

You have to realize that a retail disc is a lot more expensive (as in production costs) when compared to digital download games. Companies like Medaverse simply don't have the funds to release a retail game and when dealing with publishers can be a tricky thing.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2009, 11:09:35 PM »
Right. If Gravitronix was published by a third party, Medaverse Studios would have less control over their product. Even if they would likely gain more help in advertising they would be forced to act according to the publisher's needs. In other words, Medaverse's decisions would have been made for them most of the time. No doubt it would have likely made the product better, but at the cost of their creative freedom, and the learning experience would have been stripped from them.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2009, 11:42:25 PM »
I know all of that, I just thought it was funny is all.

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2009, 01:11:45 PM »
WiiWare demos are out this week... has Nintendo offered any information about this program to developers in general? Are you now planning to make a Gravitronix demo, or is that even feasible?
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2009, 01:58:26 PM »
WiiWare demos are out this week... has Nintendo offered any information about this program to developers in general? Are you now planning to make a Gravitronix demo, or is that even feasible?

I've heard nothing about it personally. My guess is that they went for games that had good reviews across the board and asked those devs to make demo versions.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2009, 02:08:45 PM »
Well, the way I see it, they said that they were going to TEST if the demos were effective and generated more sales. Save for World of Goo, those games received excellent reviews, but sales were poor. I think Nintendo believes that if they do well thanks to demos then they will fully implement demos for all releases.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2009, 02:32:46 PM »
I'm hoping this happens, ASAP.

I long for the day when I can say "Go try the Gravitronix demo now!"

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2009, 02:43:00 PM »
Well, the demos will be up till the end of January. Maybe if the initiative pays off it will become permanent.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2009, 09:07:44 PM »
After a one week hiatus, Jesse returns with the final entry in our Developer Diary special, called The conclusion.

Read more.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2009, 09:55:49 PM »
This has been a truly fascinating feature. Thanks to Jessie, Pedro, and James for making it happen.

Jesse, I don't know much about game development, but I know some things about project management and system engineering that I think probably apply as much to games as anything else. Namely, it's much easier and less expensive to correct mistakes in the beginning than at the end. Be really thorough in pre-production, as you design the game and plan out all the different aspects that will have to be fully realized in production. Use mock-ups and prototypes whenever possible to anticipate problems before they become intrinsic to the project. Be brutally honest about the level of effort and cost associated with everything you want to do, and if a particular area looks to be extravagantly expensive or difficult, think about how to change that. Build time and cost margins into your plan, because things never go perfectly. Once you begin full production, the project should have major inertia to resist any significant changes, because those are especially problematic late in the process. As you go, compare the unfinished build to your initial goals to determine what is working and what isn't. Don't compromise on your original goals, because they are why you got into this in the first place.

These tenets are not mine. You can find them in any basic textbook on project management or system engineering, and I recommend doing so to anyone who has to lead a large, complex project that will take a long time to finish. As for specific game development resources, attend GDC if possible, and keep an eye on Gamasutra as well as unrelenting developer diaries like this one.
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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2009, 12:15:20 AM »
This has been a truly fascinating feature. Thanks to Jessie, Pedro, and James for making it happen.

Jesse, I don't know much about game development, but I know some things about project management and system engineering that I think probably apply as much to games as anything else. Namely, it's much easier and less expensive to correct mistakes in the beginning than at the end. Be really thorough in pre-production, as you design the game and plan out all the different aspects that will have to be fully realized in production. Use mock-ups and prototypes whenever possible to anticipate problems before they become intrinsic to the project. Be brutally honest about the level of effort and cost associated with everything you want to do, and if a particular area looks to be extravagantly expensive or difficult, think about how to change that. Build time and cost margins into your plan, because things never go perfectly. Once you begin full production, the project should have major inertia to resist any significant changes, because those are especially problematic late in the process. As you go, compare the unfinished build to your initial goals to determine what is working and what isn't. Don't compromise on your original goals, because they are why you got into this in the first place.

These tenets are not mine. You can find them in any basic textbook on project management or system engineering, and I recommend doing so to anyone who has to lead a large, complex project that will take a long time to finish. As for specific game development resources, attend GDC if possible, and keep an eye on Gamasutra as well as unrelenting developer diaries like this one.


This is all completely correct and it's what we're doing this time around. We're already experimenting with flash prototyping (we're using Kirby as a placeholder sprite, which is the 2nd time he's been used as such, heh) and we're going to make sure we have a lot more ducks in a row before we set out to build the game.


With Gravitronix, we truly were flying blind. This time, I'm hoping that having a plan alone will help a great deal.

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2009, 12:33:59 AM »
Thanks Johnny! It was great working with my first NWR feature.

Jesse: I don't know if this will help at all, but if you feel bad, imagine how the guys at Over the Top (Nyxquest) are feeling now. Their game received Nintendo's blessing as one of the best WiiWare games, it's an ambitious platforming game with great graphics, a storyline, some inventive uses of the Wii Remote and received incredible reviews from sites, and it didn't stay long on the best sellers list.

Worse, it seems the recent demo scared away potential customers because the game didn't receive a sales boost in any of the regions, especially when Bit. Trip, World of Goo, and Darklord saw some sales boosts.

They definitely created a great game that went largely ignored by the consumers. Hopefully, Super Meat Boy doesn't suffer the same fate.

Speaking of which, their game first started as a flash game. Maybe what you could do is create the flash prototype, then have fans playtest it online for free and gather thoughts from it. Like Johnny said, it is easier to gather data then than when the game is nearly finished and about to ship.

Just a suggestion, though.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline IceCold

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2009, 05:52:04 AM »
Jessie - thanks for becoming a part of our community.
I'll pick up and try out the game just for that.

...just pray I don't regret it though... ;)

He was always part of our community... have people still not figured it out after, what, 3 years?
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Offline vudu

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2009, 02:22:24 PM »
IceCold, you just blew my mind.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline ModestMr.Green

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2009, 09:22:31 PM »
Hello there.  This has been an incredibly insightful feature, and I really do wish you the best of luck in the future.  I've wanted to create games my entire life, but I still haven't managed to really create anything interesting at all.


I don't really post around here (in fact, I don't remember the last time I logged in), but I thought I should leave a comment here.  You said in 'The Conclusion' that success may come down to 'luck' in the marketplace, and that perhaps it would be better to focus more on what you want to create than what the customer wants.


I strongly disagree with those sentiments, and I really feel compelled to see if you might reconsider.


I think that while there is an element of unpredictability in the marketplace, there are many indicators and processes that can help you find your audience from the beginning.


I know nothing about you, so perhaps you've seen this before, but Sean Malstrom has written extensively on the topic of consumer-based products and services and how implementing techniques such as Blue Ocean Strategy at the earliest stages of development can be incredibly useful as you try to build software that will both sell and will still allow you to test out experimental gameplay on WiiWare or on other platforms.


In the above paragraph, I've linked you to Malstrom's blog, but his articles are much more extensive and can be found here.  In addition, there is a small, separate community of like-minded individuals that can be found here.  Please feel free to join us there and participate in some of the conversations.


Every single one of us (those who agree with Malstrom or otherwise) wants great content, and there are many holes within Wii's library that can be filled by small developers such as yourself.  I really hope you find this useful or otherwise thought-provoking.


Thanks for reading and please stay healthy.  Hope to see you around!


--Clayton M.

Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2009, 11:48:17 PM »
Hello there.  This has been an incredibly insightful feature, and I really do wish you the best of luck in the future.  I've wanted to create games my entire life, but I still haven't managed to really create anything interesting at all.


I don't really post around here (in fact, I don't remember the last time I logged in), but I thought I should leave a comment here.  You said in 'The Conclusion' that success may come down to 'luck' in the marketplace, and that perhaps it would be better to focus more on what you want to create than what the customer wants.


I strongly disagree with those sentiments, and I really feel compelled to see if you might reconsider.


I think that while there is an element of unpredictability in the marketplace, there are many indicators and processes that can help you find your audience from the beginning.


I know nothing about you, so perhaps you've seen this before, but Sean Malstrom has written extensively on the topic of consumer-based products and services and how implementing techniques such as Blue Ocean Strategy at the earliest stages of development can be incredibly useful as you try to build software that will both sell and will still allow you to test out experimental gameplay on WiiWare or on other platforms.


In the above paragraph, I've linked you to Malstrom's blog, but his articles are much more extensive and can be found here.  In addition, there is a small, separate community of like-minded individuals that can be found here.  Please feel free to join us there and participate in some of the conversations.


Every single one of us (those who agree with Malstrom or otherwise) wants great content, and there are many holes within Wii's library that can be filled by small developers such as yourself.  I really hope you find this useful or otherwise thought-provoking.


Thanks for reading and please stay healthy.  Hope to see you around!


--Clayton M.


I agree with what Maelstrom has said, but the issue I've seen and the one I mean to illustrate in my conclusion is that no amount of quality can guarantee sales, nor can any lack of quality ensure a lack of sales.


There are thresholds of course, but right now, there are titles in the WiiWare top 5 that have been rated horribly and titles like Nyx Quest and Bit.Trip that aren't selling as well as they should be for the reviews they've received.


Obviously, I don't mean to suggest that developers should aim low with their quality thresholds. We certainly didn't (I challenge anyone to get Gravitronix to crash), but all I mean to say is that there are no safe bets so you might as well develop something you feel truly inspired to develop.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2009, 04:28:06 PM »
Obviously, I don't mean to suggest that developers should aim low with their quality thresholds. We certainly didn't, but all I mean to say is that there are no safe bets so you might as well develop something you feel truly inspired to develop.
It's just too bad that more developers don't share that sentiment, but the problem is, it is more apparent what will sell now than it was 10-20 years ago when games were more artistic. That's why we get stale games like the sixth iteration of Call of Duty instead of something fresh.

Offline JLowther

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Re: Medaverse Developer Diary: A Simple Challenge
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2009, 11:54:10 AM »
It's just too bad that more developers don't share that sentiment, but the problem is, it is more apparent what will sell now than it was 10-20 years ago when games were more artistic. That's why we get stale games like the sixth iteration of Call of Duty instead of something fresh.


Making Gravitronix was enjoyable for many reasons, but one of them was definitely because it was a game concept none of us had ever played before so we were sailing into uncharted waters. How do you determine if a FPS has reached the necessary fun threshold? People have fun shooting the other players. Determining when Gravitronix had reached that same threshold was tricky to say the least, though more exciting as a result.


But I also can't help but feel bad for known developers who get forced into sequel after sequel. From what I've heard, Hideo Kojima has wanted to do something other than MGS for a long time now and Will Wright spent years making Spore, only to have a lot of people complain that it was nothing like the Sims.


Some might say that the money from making these games would make up for it, but I personally don't think it would. It's a hard situation to be in because sequels nearly always sell, but I can't help but imagine that every designer making sequels has countless other projects they'd rather be working on but can't because their publisher A) wants to make what sells and B) doesn't want to take a risk on something that might not.


I think sequels should only be done when necessary, like when there's more ground to cover or if you've created something that operates as a series and should logically have many sequels/episodes. I'm excited to develop all of the game ideas we have, but if someone told me to continuously make sequels for any one of them, that would be what I'd classify as a living hell.

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Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.