Author Topic: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs  (Read 16145 times)

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2011, 05:01:33 PM »
What if the hard drive is THE CLOUD? 8gb is just for temp files. Nintendo bleeding edge cuts everyone's eyelids clean off.

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2011, 05:03:51 PM »
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if the extra features of the Wii2 version of multi-plat games couldn't convince you to buy the Wii2 version because they don't have the other 120GB of HDD space you wouldn't even need for that game, then good riddance.

Well I said I wouldn't buy the Super Wii version unless it had some extra content.  So, yeah, if there are extra features then the storage issue wouldn't turn me off.  But if it's the exact same game I might as well go PS3 so as to preserve my Super Wii storage space.
 
Quote

This console is supposed to be the one that "brings the core audience back", so I do think it matters what we want out of it.  This whole "well, I guess they don't need this thing we don't to pay for" attitude is a large part of what led to the Wii being summarily abandoned by the 3rd parties.

Exactly.  Nintendo has been all "well you don't really need this" and "that's good enough" since the N64 and that is the root of all of their problems.  Always excuses and workarounds and this arrogant expectation that people will cut them slack for no reason.  As long as they continue with this attitude they'll only succeed with kids, casuals and die hard Nintendo fans ie: people too loyal or ignorant to call them on their bullshit.
 
If they're going to get this wrong, and they are getting it wrong, especially when inadequate storage was an issue on the Wii, what else are they going to flub?  That's the thing.  If they can't get this right, and this is EASY stuff, will they have a good online plan?  Not an improved online plan, because improving from their very crappy one is not hard, but a GOOD one.  Can they actually design hardware third parties will want to use and have good development kits and offer a business model that makes it worthwhile for third parties to bother supporting them?
 
If you can't get the little stuff right how can you get the big stuff right?  With the Gamecube I think the problem that almost all of the little stuff was just slightly wrong and as a result the whole system was just incredibly average and unexceptional.  It was like for every bulletpoint the Cube was never the best choice and was frequently the worst.  If you're trying to win people back how can do that when you provide them with endless reasons to ignore you?  The N64 and Wii had serious flaws that completely sabotaged third party support.  The Cube meanwhile was just there being completely unexceptional and often being inferior.
 
The Wii successor has to be the BEST console.  Not an okay console or "good enough" but the best.  Or at least it should strive to be the best.  But we already know that for the storage bullet point it will be the worst and this is completely avoidable and obvious and is in comparison to a system that is already 6 years old.  With Nintendo's track record they aren't going to get this wrong and everything else right.  This is going to be just one of many completely avoidable mistakes.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2011, 05:24:53 PM »
Ian, why must you always be the buzz killing pessimist who has to assume that only the worst case scenario is most likely?



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« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:32:12 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline NeoStar9X

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2011, 05:37:44 PM »
If true this shouldn't be a problem I think. SD cards are cheap and are getting larger. Those that would be willing to buy DLC would be willing to pick up a SD card or cards. Also aren't they less likely to go bad compared to a hard drive? Lack of moving parts and all that? Or is that just in regard to Flash memory. The biggest issue with this might be that it makes it easier for people to pirate DLC or to hack the system. For this reason alone I hope this is false.

Flash memory I can deal with. 8GB should be fine for most DLC. Think about which games get DLC the most and how big it usually is. FPS in terms of map packs, music games for songs, and games like Fallout 3. When most people move on to the next FPS they usually don't go back. So cleaning house for them shouldn't be a problem. Games like Fallout might be a problem. Combined the Broken Steel and Point Lookout download content  for Fallout 3 is over 1gb I believe. However DLC like this is rare. Between VC games, downloadable scaled games, DLC such as costumes, maps, modes, etc 8GB or around a little higher should be enough really.

What this will be to small for and wouldn't work with would be downloading of movies, music, TV shows, and the installation and downloading of full console games. PS3 and 360 have services like this. If Nintendo isn't going to have services like this on their system then they don't need massive storage. If they allow streaming like Netflix or music programs why do they need 100GB+ hard drives?

Still more storage is always good. If Nintendo is really talking to developers when it came to developing this then I expect them to have more storage in the end. Kotaku is the source of this remember. That should say enough.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:43:17 PM by NeoStar9X »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2011, 05:42:19 PM »
1985: NES launches but the cartridges have to be blown on in order to work.

1991: SNES launches with cartridges that do not have to be blown in order to work, but has a slow ass processor.

1996: N64 launches with a powerful processor, but is missing an optical drive.

2001: The GC includes an optical drive, but uses tiny discs and has no online support.

2006: The Wii adds big discs and online support, but is missing HD.

2011-2012: The Cafe launches with HD, Online, and Blu-ray but is missing HDD.


It seems like whenever Nintendo addresses the problems of their previous consoles they always neglect some other important detail.
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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2011, 05:58:52 PM »
If this rumor is true, this is a sick joke.  My 360 has 120 GB and my PS3 160 GB, and if I didn't routinely delete install data for games I'm no longer playing I would have run out of space a long time ago.  Even deleting old install data, I still only have something like 40-50 gb left on my PS3.

Why don't you upgrade your HDD then? I installed a 500gb HDD on my friend's PS3 replacing his old 80gb. Its ridiculously simple to do and all you need is a screwdriver. I heard the 360 only accepts proprietary expensive Microsoft approved HDDs, so upgrading that is more expensive, but the PS3 will accept any generic 2.5" HDD with no problem.

Because so far just cleaning house every once in a while is keeping the storage problem in check.  If I find that I can no longer keep it in check, like you said it's easy to upgrade.  It's not like I'm trying to manage 8 GB of storage when my games have multi-GB files.

EDIT: And you might want to update your listing of Nintendo screw-ups with the N64.  Remember that that console didn't have a dedicated sound system either, so the console had to divide processing power from the game to do music.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2011, 06:01:44 PM »
1) This is still unconfirmed.
2) Hard drives = moving parts = more potential for hardware problems.
3) Who's to say they won't support a USB hard drive in addition, offering developers the option to require it?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 06:13:42 PM »
1) This is still unconfirmed.
2) Hard drives = moving parts = more potential for hardware problems.
3) Who's to say they won't support a USB hard drive in addition, offering developers the option to require it?

Exactly, this is all still unconfirmed, and who's to say that Nintendo isn't planning a WiiFit type game that requires the HDD and they pack it in.... something like a Pokemon RPG with a packed in 60GB HDD?

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2011, 06:19:17 PM »
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If true this shouldn't be a problem I think. SD cards are cheap and are getting larger. Those that would be willing to buy DLC would be willing to pick up a SD card or cards.

But why would I be willing to buy an SD Card if I can get the same DLC for the PS3 without buying an SD Card?  See, that's just the standard Nintendo excuses again.  Yes, there is a workaround and, yes, this is totally doable but why should anyone jump through hoops for one console when they don't have to for the other one?
 
If they allow for the option to connect a USB hard drive then it will probably be fine.  But since when does Nintendo provide options?
 
To me it's just as simple as the idea that if the other consoles don't require me to "make do" then Nintendo shouldn't.  Hell, the big problem with the friend codes was that the other guys don't make their users go through that hassle so why should we have to?  If that was the only way to play online games of any sort it wouldn't matter.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 06:23:19 PM »
Why should I be willing to buy a Move controler if I can get the same waggle for the Wii without buying a move controller?

Protip: 3DS comes with an SD card bundled. Maybe this will too.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2011, 06:28:44 PM »
But why shoudl you be willing to buy an external USB HDD to get the same DLC for PS3 w/o buying an external USB HDD? See, I can play this stupid game too. Yes, there is a workaround, yes this is totally doable but why should anyone jump through hoops for you when you will never be satisfied regardless of what they do?

If they pack an extra SDHC card in teh box of say 16GB or so then will you shut up? Nintendo did it with the extra 2GB card for the 3DS so it's not like it hasn't happened before.

To me it just seems like if Nintendo didn't do the exact same thing as the other consoles, then they didn't do it right. The big problem is that you would be happier with a console that is not Nintendo's but complain because the other console makes don't make games as good as Nintendo. Simple solution is to own both. Now go find something else to complain about.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 06:30:30 PM »
I agree with Ian. Being able to buy SD cards and expand the storage is nice, but not everyone is going to do it, and since that wouldn't be an out of the box feature its something that developers aren't going to take into consideration. The Gamecube technically was capable of online play because Nintendo made a broadband adapter and a modem for it, so a workaround for the Gamecube did exist but since this required an additional purchase and wasn't a standard built in feature there was only one or two games which ever made any use of it.

So SD cards are probably going to be the same way, where there will be a small handful of games which require them or make use of them, but that's it. Unless Nintendo included it by default its not going to be supported by developers. Instead of requiring a work around, what is more likely to happen is those features will be stripped out of the Cafe version, or those games may not even come to the Cafe at all.

And like I've said before, 64gb isn't enough. 160Gb of storage on a PS3 or 360 isn't enough for people who make lots of download. So being able to expand the Cafe to 64gb doesn't solve the problem; it only mitigates it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 06:36:25 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2011, 06:37:09 PM »
Having an SD card slot built into the system that allows for direct loading off of an SD card isn't a "standard built in feature" because you have to buy the SD card that goes into the slot?

I need to take a break from the internet today.... just for a little while.
You're making my head hurt.


edit: and adding a 64GB SD card to your system woudl then expand it to 72 GB (8 + 64), but I still don't understand what you would be using all that space for when

16GB plus the 8GB onboard should be plenty for 95% of the customer base.
Most DLC probably wouldn't be over 100MB anyway, most Wii2Ware probably won't cross .5GB & outside of the possibility of GC games on the VC, no VC games are gonna be bigger than 256MB, so 8GB + 16GB expanded will cover almost everyone.


Also a faster Bluray drive would solve the need for game installs unless your motive was purely to not swap disc to play different games. But I've already pointed all this out in the Rumor thread where the quote above is from.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 06:42:04 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Thaneros

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2011, 06:50:20 PM »
Cloud gaming/storage anyone? I have a feeling Nintendo is going to do something "cloud" based this time around.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2011, 06:56:28 PM »
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To me it just seems like if Nintendo didn't do the exact same thing as the other consoles, then they didn't do it right.

It isn't because they're doing it different, it's because they're doing it different and WORSE.  Flash memory costs MORE money for LESS storage.  It's simple arithmetic.  And being chincy with the storage was a problem with the Wii and yet here they are being chincy with the storage yet again.
 
I legitimately consider it to be inferior because it blantantly is.  No one is telling me it's better or as good.  They're just giving me the same lame "well we can make do" excuses that always come up when Nintendo does something goofy.
 
I would rather not have to buy a hard drive for the Super Wii when I didn't have to with the PS3 but at least then it's hard drive vs. hard drive and not flash storage vs. hard drive.
 
And we're speculating over what Nintendo is going to do with the Super Wii and how they could improve things.  Storage was an issue on the Wii and here they are with something inferior to what the competition has had for YEARS.  Well what they hell did they learn from the Wii storage problem if they can't recognize the potential issue with this storage implementation?  It suggests that they learned nothing and are oblivious to what the problem ever was in the first place.  And if they're oblivious about this then they're probably oblivious about a lot of stuff like third party support or online gaming.
 
Nintendo lives in their own little bubble so they frequently screw up routine stuff that anybody with the most basic knowledge of the videogame industry as a whole would get right.  Well this whole thing just reaks of the sort of idea that a company living in a bubble would come up with.  Bubble Nintendo ain't going to cut it.  Bubble Nintendo is always going to be behind the times.  They have to change if they want different results.

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2011, 07:14:59 PM »
Cloud gaming/storage anyone? I have a feeling Nintendo is going to do something "cloud" based this time around.

Cloud gaming is extremely impractical for the vast majority of consumers.  We just don't have the infrastructure in place to supply that huge amount of high-speed internet worldwide to most consumers.  I could see Cloud being used for saves, but saves take up so little space and aren't the problem here.  The big problem is DLC and game installs, neither of which can be helped by Cloud storage.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2011, 07:15:41 PM »
This is the onboard storage we are talking about, not the expandable memory.
Nintendo learned their mistake with SD Card support on the Wii and fixed it on the 3DS, now you can load software straight from the SD card. Also this "rumor" never said there won't be optional HDD support, all it said was "will not include a traditional hard-drive".

As far as onboard memory goes

The original Xbox has 0 bytes of onboard storage (+ 8GB HDD)
The original Xbox360 had 0 bytes of onboard storage (+ Optional 20-250GB HDD)
The PS3 has 0 bytes of onboard storage (+ 20GB - 250GB HDD)
Wii has 512MB of onboard storage
New 360slim has 4GB of onboard storage (+ Optional 250GB HDD)
3DS has 2GB of onboard storage (+ 2GB SD card)

Wii2 is rumored to have 8GB of onboard storage

sounds like Nintendo is ahead of the curve on Onboard storage

And I also said it before but I'll say it again, Nintendo could always throw in a free SD card with the system like they did with the 3DS.
Even if they just match the included flash by giving a free 8GB card, you would still have 16GB available @ launch, and that sounds like plenty until you use one of those those other SD cards you likely have laying around somewhere or go buy a bigger one.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 07:19:20 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2011, 07:24:33 PM »
Even if they just match the included flash by giving a free 8GB card, you would still have 16GB available @ launch, and that sounds like plenty until you use one of those those other SD cards you likely have laying around somewhere or go buy a bigger one.

Sheesh, you sound like Congress arguing over budget cuts.  Whether we have 8 GB or 16 GB of storage at launch like your hypothesize, the underlying problem is that that's still way too small.  My original PS3 had 80 GB of storage, and even that was too small for the means of installing and downloading games.  If Nintendo's serious about solving storage issues, we need to be talking in the > 100 GB range, especially since by the time this console launches downloadable and mandatory-install games will only have gotten bigger in size.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2011, 07:48:48 PM »
I would be surprised if Nintendo allowed mandatory installs. I'd also like a link confirming any downloadable game that was designed as a downloadable game that's even close to 8 GB.

I'd certainly prefer there were more storage than this, but in the end it's not important what I want, but what third parties want. What everyone in this thread is worried about is how this might affect support for the system. Based on everything we've heard so far (which, admittedly, is far from comprehensive) everyone who has seen the hardware is happy with it. Let's hold off on declaring the system dead at least until it's been officially announced.
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Offline Sarail

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2011, 07:59:36 PM »
250 GB HDD or bust, as far as I'm concerned.

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2011, 08:02:38 PM »
when these hard drives in the ps3 and 360 start dying off I am going to laugh and laugh.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2011, 08:02:57 PM »
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I would be surprised if Nintendo allowed mandatory installs.

I don't care for them but if it comes down to "mandatory install or we just don't bother releasing a Super Wii version at all" I think I would take the mandatory install.  I just want them to be flexible for third parties.

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2011, 08:04:26 PM »
when these hard drives in the ps3 and 360 start dying off I am going to laugh and laugh.

When Nintendo is in its 3rd year of Wii 2 and it has no 3rd party support because of stuff like this, I am going to laugh and laugh.  If Nintendo doesn't want to use HDDs, fine but offer a good alternative.  This rumored storage size is a joke.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2011, 08:05:07 PM »
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I would be surprised if Nintendo allowed mandatory installs.

I don't care for them but if it comes down to "mandatory install or we just don't bother releasing a Super Wii version at all" I think I would take the mandatory install.  I just want them to be flexible for third parties.

Microsoft doesn't allow mandatory installs on the 360, and they've managed to maintain fairly decent third party support.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2011, 08:08:09 PM »
Even if they just match the included flash by giving a free 8GB card, you would still have 16GB available @ launch, and that sounds like plenty until you use one of those those other SD cards you likely have laying around somewhere or go buy a bigger one.

Sheesh, you sound like Congress arguing over budget cuts.  Whether we have 8 GB or 16 GB of storage at launch like your hypothesize, the underlying problem is that that's still way too small.  My original PS3 had 80 GB of storage, and even that was too small for the means of installing and downloading games.  If Nintendo's serious about solving storage issues, we need to be talking in the > 100 GB range, especially since by the time this console launches downloadable and mandatory-install games will only have gotten bigger in size.

Why would be be installing games? The only reason for that beyond laziness on the PS3 was slow Bluray drives which casued them to duplicate a lot of data all over the disc and I would hope that Nintendo would spring for newer faster drives than what are in the PS3 (assuming they are using bluray).

You probably won't be downloading movies (we'll probably just be streaming) and I've detailed the size of most other downloadable stuff, so what is all that extra space for?
Demos? I know those can get pretty big, but how many of them do you need at once?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:13:16 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »