Topic: Nintendo 3DS Discussion

[NWR_insanolord]

If there are going to be a lot of games that use the touch screen for aiming or movement with the action on the top screen to take advantage of the 3D, Nintendo needs to bring back the thumb strap they included with the original DS.

There's less reason for this control scheme given the analog disc.

Well, in something like a FPS you'd use both the analog and the touch screen, unless they add a second analog (and even then I'd rather aim with the touch screen).

[Mannypon]

If there are going to be a lot of games that use the touch screen for aiming or movement with the action on the top screen to take advantage of the 3D, Nintendo needs to bring back the thumb strap they included with the original DS.

If I understand you correctly, I assume your referring to FPSers.  I think they can remedy this problem by using the N64 Goldeneye control method.  The N64 only had one analog stick and pulled off FPSer controls lovely.  All they need to do is use the face buttons in the same way the C-buttons on the N64 were used.  If I remember correctly, B and Y were to move straight and back while A and X were used for straffing.  You coulple that with the analog nub for aiming along with the R button for shooting and L button for grenades and you got yourself a solid control scheme.  You can also use the D pad for cycling through your weapons/items.  Up and Down for items and Left and Right for weapons.  I think this would work smoothly and provide the best possible control with FPSers.  It worked on Goldeneye back in the day and I don't remember anybody complaining back then (unless they were sore losers after getting merked and were grasping for excuses lol)

[NWR_insanolord]

If there are going to be a lot of games that use the touch screen for aiming or movement with the action on the top screen to take advantage of the 3D, Nintendo needs to bring back the thumb strap they included with the original DS.

If I understand you correctly, I assume your referring to FPSers.  I think they can remedy this problem by using the N64 Goldeneye control method.  The N64 only had one analog stick and pulled off FPSer controls lovely.  All they need to do is use the face buttons in the same way the C-buttons on the N64 were used.  If I remember correctly, B and Y were to move straight and back while A and X were used for straffing.  You coulple that with the analog nub for aiming along with the R button for shooting and L button for grenades and you got yourself a solid control scheme.  You can also use the D pad for cycling through your weapons/items.  Up and Down for items and Left and Right for weapons.  I think this would work smoothly and provide the best possible control with FPSers.  It worked on Goldeneye back in the day and I don't remember anybody complaining back then (unless they were sore losers after getting merked and were grasping for excuses lol)

Have you played an N64 FPS recently? I have, and I couldn't stand the controls. They worked fine back then, but there have been a lot of improvements since then, and I just can't go back. I'm not much of a dual-analog fan, but I'd take that in a second over the N64 layout.

[Mannypon]

Have you played an N64 FPS recently? I have, and I couldn't stand the controls. They worked fine back then, but there have been a lot of improvements since then, and I just can't go back. I'm not much of a dual-analog fan, but I'd take that in a second over the N64 layout.

Oh, I totally understand but I'm just working with what they've showed.  I'd love a dual analog control and would take it in a heartbeat but so far there is only one analog nub confirmed.  I haven't played any FPSers on my DS but the thought of using the touch screen for aiming doesn't sound to pleasing to me.  Stretching my right thumb out to aim across the screen while also using my index finger to shoot with the R button just makes me think of the eventual cramps or pain I'll have to endure after long gaming sessions.  If given the choice between using the touch screen or the old N64 method, I'd personally go with the old setup.

If they do go and add another analog nub, I'll be in heaven though as that's what I was hoping to find before the big reveal.  I always thought that the one analog nub was a mistake in Sony's part with their PSP and I'm suprised they didn't put a change to that when they released the PSPGo at the least.  Nintendo could go and place the second analog nub under the face buttons.

[NWR_insanolord]

Well I have played FPSs on the DS, and the touch screen aiming works really well, especially with the thumb stylus. Like I said, even if there were a second analog pad I'd want to aim with the touch screen. The lack of self-centering, which makes touch control bad for directional control, makes it really good for aiming.

[DAaaMan64]

It works okay on the DS, I feel like I'm flailing a little, and my hands are cramping.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Some may wonder why Wii was ignored yet 3DS gets sooo much love from the 3rd parties.


I think we have an answer

Nintendo Q & A

What do you think the Nintendo 3DS is going to be with respect to software development costs, both from your own first-party perspective, but also from the perspective of third-party developers?

Iwata:
I would like to answer your question from two different perspectives. Given my development background, the first will be from a developer’s perspective, and then I’ll also try to answer the question from the perspective of a representative of the company that is the platform holder. First, I’d like to talk about how much development resources are required in order to take a game and create it in three dimensions.

As long as you are already creating a fully rendered 3D world, all you have to do in order to create the 3D visual effect is to capture the same images with two cameras, one for right eye and the other for left eye. From a development perspective, it actually does not make much of a difference in terms of development costs to create the 3D visual effect.

On the other hand, because the visual capabilities of Nintendo 3DS are more powerful than the existing Nintendo DS, if you are going to take full advantage of the graphics capability of Nintendo 3DS, the development cost is also expected to rise.

Therefore, if developers decide to try and maximize the graphical powers of the system, then the cost would be more expensive than what it is currently for Nintendo DS and may potentially approach the cost of developing Wii software.

Wii is considered cheap games by gaming budget standards.
So you spend your millions on mediocre Wii games or spend your Wii budget on STUNNING HI REZ 3DS games!?

[BlackNMild2k1]

How about the direction Nintendo is taking with 3DSware and the bark mode thing they were talking about?

  So in the presentation yesterday, I spoke about some new attempts that we’re doing with Nintendo 3DS on the communication front that would allow the device to receive information without the consumer having to actively download it. Instead, it would happen automatically and update itself.

  I can’t go into detail on what the plans are today, but of course, with a device like Nintendo 3DS, we do intend to offer some type of digital distribution. What I can say is that if that type of digital distribution is not something that is very new and fresh compared to what we have done with Nintendo DSi, then I think we’re going to have a hard time reaching out beyond the audience that actively seeks out that type of digital content.

  So up until now, much of the digital distribution focus has been on more of a "pull type" where the consumer goes out, gets the content and pulls it to themselves. With Nintendo 3DS, we’re looking at a model that would be more focused around the "push type," where we’re able to push information or content out to the device. And with a model like that, what it means is that because the consumer doesn’t have to actively seek out the information themselves, it gives us a venue for creative new ideas of our company or of our developers to reach consumers much more easily.

  And ideally, if it is possible, we would like to try and find ways to customize that functionality as much as possible to meet our consumers’ tastes. Unfortunately, we can’t go into detail on that today because there’s still a number of questions about the degree to which we’ll be able to do that. But I would like to say that we are thinking seriously about strengthening digital distribution.

..... Sounds like Nintendo at the very least may have been doing more than just working on an OS and a game with Google, but getting some pointers on DD and pushing content. Should we expect the 3DS to be reporting back to Nintendo the games we're playing and for how long? Then when you boot up your system, it gives game recommendations that you may like based on things you have played.


How do you think Nintendo is gonna "Push" content and how far do you think they will go with user customization (will they take it anywhere near Android levels?)

[Stogi]

I think he's talking about DLC and not necessarily games. He's saying that you don't have to go find new levels for Smash 3DS. They'll already be downloaded and ready to go.

I'm more interested in the customization features. Is it simply going to be "Click here to turn off auto-updates" or something more substantial?

[MaryJane]

Should we expect the 3DS to be reporting back to Nintendo the games we're playing and for how long? Then when you boot up your system, it gives game recommendations that you may like based on things you have played.

The very first thing I thought of when I read the interview was targeted ads. 

[Stratos]

Should we expect the 3DS to be reporting back to Nintendo the games we're playing and for how long? Then when you boot up your system, it gives game recommendations that you may like based on things you have played.

The very first thing I thought of when I read the interview was targeted ads.

The Nintendo Channel already does this in a more passive and non-intrusive way when you look at and recommend games. It could be a very similar type of setup.

[AV]

IGN new Nintendo Voice Chat podcast has a question from me. Apparently no dual input/multi input touch screen, and no rumble :-(


Nintendo Voice Chat Podcast Episode 79

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm hoping for a button on the stylus. Nothing fancy, just a single click button.

[Spinnzilla]

I think he's talking about DLC and not necessarily games. He's saying that you don't have to go find new levels for Smash 3DS. They'll already be downloaded and ready to go.

Or perhaps even speaking about downloading patches without even booting the game up first.

[bustin98]

If there are going to be a lot of games that use the touch screen for aiming or movement with the action on the top screen to take advantage of the 3D, Nintendo needs to bring back the thumb strap they included with the original DS.

There's less reason for this control scheme given the analog disc.

Well, in something like a FPS you'd use both the analog and the touch screen, unless they add a second analog (and even then I'd rather aim with the touch screen).

In one of the videos posted on Nintendo's E3 site, one of the engineers is talking to Iwata about physically moving the 3DS to look around in the 1st person view, using the slider to move. I can imagine this being an issue in a crowded area, though I can't imagine playing a 1st person shooter in a crowd no matter what console its on. But sitting on my office chair that spins around pretty quickly, I would love to try a control scheme like that.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Here's what Reggie says about 3DS online

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/nintendos-reggie-talks-3ds-iphone-wii-hd-and-more/

Well, first, one of the things that I love about Nintendo is we   constantly are reviewing our performance. I completely agree with you   that the online… or let me state it more broadly, the digital area is   an area where we can improve, and we’ve made a commitment to   dramatically improve in that area. Now, what that looks like I can just   about guarantee is unlike anything that our competitors have done to   date. The reason for that is it wouldn’t be innovative, it wouldn’t   be distinctive, and therefore, it wouldn’t be Nintendo. Our approach   will be to enable the consumer to discover our digital content much more   easily. Our focus will be to have a range of digital content that is   compelling for the consumer. Our approach will be a digital business   model where every participant is financially moving in a positive   direction, and our approach will be to make the consumer say “wow” in   the end. That’s what we’re trying to do.

Every participant is moving forward in a positive financial direction..... what does that mean?

But I'm really wondering if Nintendo is doing something with Online that none of it's competitors have done, are they being innovative just to be innovative again, are they gonna have me saying the right kind of wow?

edit:
And what does Reggie have to say about DD, DD being attached to accounts and transferring those to a new system?

http://kotaku.com/5570151/nintendo-admits-mistakes-with-wiiware-execution

A change to how Nintendo's WiiWare/DSiWare-style approach to selling   games will be made, the Nintendo of America president said. But he cut   off the possibility that Nintendo would provide the same online shop   offered on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. "It will not look like what   our competitors are doing. But we will have more content, have it be   more easily discoverable. We will make it engaging and a much bigger   piece of our overall business."

One other key difference is that Nintendo locks digital purchases to a   single piece of hardware, preventing, say, a DSiWare consumer from   transferring their purchased games from one DS to the next. The lack of a   digital-purchase transfer option has kept some gamers from buying   Nintendo's downloadable games. "It is certainly something we're looking at," Fils-Aime said. "Our   current approach is a device-based approach. The content is tied to a   particular device. Until we move to a different type of an approach like   an account based approach you're not going to be able to transfer the   content. We are looking at how best to bring that to life."  As for a revamp of how Nintendo offers downloadable games, don't   expect that to occur on the Wii or current DS. "The step function change   we want to see is going to need to be on a new device, like the 3DS."

3DS will be to Wii2 as DS was to Wii.

So 3DS and it's online functions better make me say WOW in a good way.

[Stratos]

They had better let me transfer data. I want to give my DSi to my gf once I get a 3DS but if I can't keep my downloads it may ruin my plans.

[Caterkiller]

Well that sure hyped me up about the future of Nintendo Online. I don't know much about the other online systems, I just know they are a million times better. Is there something lacking from the other services that might even have a Playstation or XBox user impressed with what Nintendo can potentially do? I just can't see anyone saying wow except for us, only Nintendo guys. Maybe the grass in my eyes is exceptionally greener on the other side, but I feel like there isn't much room for improvement.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I haven't used every other service out there so I can't really comment on whats missing, but we can suggest what it should have and maybe how it should work.

Here's how I think it should work;

You get your 3DS, you connect to the internet and it immediately ask you to either log-in or create a My Nintendo account.
You attach that system by serial number to your account, and now no other account can register your 3DS as long as it's attached.
-you can also unattach your 3DS from your account should you upgrade, sell or lose it, which would mean that the next time that system goes online, all unauthorized content would automatically be deleted(and/or deactivated) since it's not activated for that system anymore. (games can be activated again with an account that has already purchased that content)
All the content you buy from the Nintendo Online Store is all attached to your account and can be moved to any device attached to your account, but you can only have 1 3DS attached to your account at a time (unless it's a family account)
You can share a demo of a game with another 3DS without needing an internet connection. From retail or DD game or downloaded demo. All demos are shareable between 3DS.
*You also have the option to back up and use any save from any game on your 3DS to your online account. (cloud saving) so that if you do get a new 3DS you can pick up where you left off the last time you played while connected to the Nintendo Cloud.*

Inside your account is very similar to Steam
You see a pic of the boxart, a description of the game, a video of gameplay and an online manual.
you also have the option to check for updates (DLC, new maps, etc. etc.) for your game.
The system will automatically recognize what is installed and what is not installed on your system and give you the option to manage your active and non-active games
Credit Card info can also be saved to your account or points can be pre-bought and stored on the account (not the system) to be shared with other system (family account or Wii2)
First time you put a game in your system, and you click to the icon to play it (like Disc Channel) it will give you the option to Play, Install or Register (game is tied to your My Nintendo Account and that info is also saved on the game card)
-Can only install a game after it is registered and tied to your account, then game card only works like a demo until you uninstall the game from your system and/or unregister the game from your account.

There will also be a Friends-list that you manage through your online account that goes by USERNAME since everyone will need an account to go online.
-But someone cannot be added to your "Active" Friendlist without their permission. (JoeBlow123 sends Friend Request - accept or deny?)
From this friends list you will have the option of text, voice or video chat that is completely independent of anygame you are playing and you can continue voice chat through any game or other function on the device (text and video will be limited to applications that can support them since text requires a keyboard and video requires the camera and a screen to view)
From this friends list you will also be able to not only see who is online, but what they are playing and then either join or invite them into a game.

On the home page, which will probably be pretty similar to Wii's only more customizable (size, color and background pic & music), there will be notifications of NEW stuff on your system.
You turn on your 3DS and The DEMO channel is flashing a new stuff you've never seen, so you click on it, Demo Channel loads and you select one of the 4 new demos that instantly loads up to play (it downloaded automatically to a dedicated section of memory on the 3DS). When the demo is over, it ask if you'd want to buy that game and then direct you to the 3DSShop if you want.
Back on the Main Menu the 3DS Shop is flashing with a 20% Off Summer Sale sign scrolling past.
you click and find certain titles to be on Sale or price reduced and ready to download.
Gifting is also an option

That's all I got for now. Anyone else got any idea how they would want online to work?
You can add to mine or show it's flaws, but what do you think? Where is there room for improvement? What would make you say Wow?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I forgot to mention game downloads, but I need to work that one out still.

As far as what Reggie said earlier about tweaking the 3DS design and it not being final yet, Iwata may have already told us one change that's being made.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/21/3ds-videogames-wii-technology-nintendo.html

While Nintendo announced a number of details about the 3DS, the launch date and price haven't been set yet. Iwata hinted, however, that these details will be announced soon, along with more 3DS features.

"Technologically speaking, a variety of different things are possible with the 3DS, for example, 3-D video chat," Iwata said.

So could we be seeing a second camera being added to the inside?
Or maybe a swivel camera so that there is only 2 cameras on the system itself?

[Caliban]

3D video chat? Sign me up.

[Kytim89]

Can the 3DS handle the unreal engine?

[Caterkiller]

Can the 3DS handle the unreal engine?

It begins!

[Adrock]

IGN new Nintendo Voice Chat podcast has a question from me. Apparently no dual input/multi input touch screen, and no rumble :-(

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER....

I can live without rumble (would rather have it though), but the lack of multitouch is pretty much a fail.

[BlackNMild2k1]

IGN new Nintendo Voice Chat podcast has a question from me. Apparently no dual input/multi input touch screen, and no rumble :-(

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER....

I can live without rumble (would rather have it though), but the lack of multitouch is pretty much a fail.

I'm pretty sure the screens capable of it, but Nintendo probably chose not to use it at this time since there is a stylus and no games would take advantage of it...... yet.
I'm sure some 3rd party will request it at a later date and Nintendo is saving something for their "Making the old feel new again" campaign, and a multi-touch firmware update could be part of that.