Author Topic: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!  (Read 9278 times)

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Offline Caterkiller

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Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« on: January 21, 2013, 08:44:56 PM »
I know we've all discussed forgotten Nintendo franchises to death but I want to do it again with all aspects of the Wii U in mind.


I figure we can turn this into a giant fixer upper thread where the topic changes every month or so.


Star Fox - Amazing
Star Fox 64 - Fantastic
Star Fox Adventures - Not a true Star Fox
Star Fox Assault - Lame
Star Fox Command - Fanfiction with difficult controls, not good.
Star Fox 64 3D - same as above minus online.


We know Miyamoto wants to see Star Fox on the Wii U more than any other franchise. In a Nintendo Power from way back Miyamoto said his top 3 games were Super Mario World, A Link to the Past and Star Fox 64. He says if we want a new Star Fox we should buy the remake for the 3DS, but why in the world has it come to that? Simply because during the days of the GameCube, Nintendo's internal development teams had no idea how to carry on the franchise after the fantastic Star Fox 64 and let other teams use the IP.


Looking past Adventures, I feel Namco's team really turned the series to crap. The controls were crappy, the voice acting was terrible, the story was horrendous, very few on rails segments, constant switching of vehicles in missions with wonky mechanics and much slower gameplay compared to the previous title. So With all these shortcomings of course the game under sold and Nintendo acts like they don't know why.

Since the time of the N64, technology has improved by leaps and bounds so a brand new Star Fox with brand new ideas can be realized. Now what can the Wii U offer?

Local and online co-op could be a major feature. Locally if someone has the Upad to themselves while another has the tv would be great. Things like a Tank on the ground and Arwing on the air with vastly different controls and view points would be a blast! Something like Metroid Blast from Nintendo land could go a long way in a fully fleshed out game. Stages with a nice balance of free roaming and on rails would be ideal for people who prefer missions and objectives and those who love the arcade experience. I imagine some stages would have both. Rails - Open - Rails - Open, all in a single stage and depending on progress there could be different paths to follow.

A versus mode with 10+ people flying around blowing everything up would be a blast as well. With today's shooters there are so many modes there is no reason why many of them couldn't be applied to Arwing and Land Master gameplay. Capture and defend the base, team dog fight with support from the ground and vice versa, etc.

These are just on the surface ideas, I'm sure there are plenty of things that can be worked in I'm not thinking about. Any ideas? I just want to talk about Star Fox.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 01:33:04 PM by Caterkiller »
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 10:56:50 PM »
I really wish I had the energy to look through my post history and find one about how I'd fix Star Fox if I were Nintendo..

too bad. What I'll say for now is, at the very least give it local and online gameplay, with voice chat, and video chat ON ONE CONDITION!

either on-screen or on the gamepad, they would be displayed like all previous communications, with a little text-box and all, even if the text box was only filled with pre-written messages.

Say I'm playing with you, Cat', and we decide to do co-op or something. I see some enemies on your tail and instead of ruining our conversation, I use the games pre-defined text messages from a quick menu, or hot keys, and on your screen I pop up at the bottom of the screen and you read "DO A BARREL ROLL!" How's that for lulz

But seriously, Nintendo can't screw that up. Not only would it be an awesome little homage to the games history but in multiplayer, being communicate without voice would be a must considering:

A. Some people might not like to do voice-chat. Let them assign some pre-written messages to hot keys on the touch screen, but also give options for user's to compose their own messages.

B. There's always the chance Nintendo will gimp the online modes by having voice chat with friends only, so if you go into a random match you still have a chance to communicate/smack talk to some extent.

Oh, Miiverse integration similar to NSMBWU would be nice if they go with an overworld similar to SF64.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 11:02:47 PM by EasyCure »
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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 12:23:04 AM »
I think Platinum Games can make for a hell of a Starfox game, i mean if its anything like Vanquish, then we are in for a thrill ride.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 12:34:07 AM »
Unless Retro Studios is working a new ground breaking IP, a third person action reboot of the Metroid series, or something Zelda related then I want them to make the next Star Fox for Wii U.
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Offline CamKrist

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 02:56:38 AM »
I sent you in pm
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 01:53:48 PM »
The thing is Star Fox is that it is a very old school style game.  It's a short 3D shmup that's meant to be completed in one sitting.  When Star Fox 64 was released that type of game was already feeling a little dated and now it's considered archaic.  It shouldn't be, really, but gamers today expect games to have more "stuff" to them.  So either Nintendo makes something that is true to Star Fox, in which case everyone complains that it's too short and the game bombs or they try to give the game more "depth" and fill it with filler and leaving the vehicles and we get the same crap we've been getting.  Plus old beat-in-one-sitting games relied on a challenge to extend the length so you couldn't beat it on your first try.  But modern games are easier so they could also make it a short game that's a breeze to beat and that isn't any good either.  I just think that at this point a good Star Fox game would be a niche title.

It's actually pretty obvious where to go with a sequel.  The series revolves around a squadron of pilots but the good games are mostly single player.  Give the game some modern graphics and emphasize four player story mode and you're good to go.  But it isn't going to be some big runaway hit.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 03:36:44 PM »
What if Star Fox had a ton of different game modes? What if it had a free form game, an on rails game,  and a big robust multiplayer mode?

I've never been a big fan of Halo, but thinking about it Halo is kinda like Starfox 64 in many ways. Starfox multiplayer was really popular and all the yreally need to do is make it like Halo with arwings. Or call of dudy with Arwing airstrikes.

The best thing for Nintendo to do would be to have Starfox, but make it an extremely robust game with lots of variety.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
Sonic the Hedgehog/Star Fox crossover.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 04:17:37 PM »
you're trying too hard to troll
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 04:46:45 PM »
The thing is Star Fox is that it is a very old school style game.  It's a short 3D shmup that's meant to be completed in one sitting.  When Star Fox 64 was released that type of game was already feeling a little dated and now it's considered archaic.  It shouldn't be, really, but gamers today expect games to have more "stuff" to them.  So either Nintendo makes something that is true to Star Fox, in which case everyone complains that it's too short and the game bombs or they try to give the game more "depth" and fill it with filler and leaving the vehicles and we get the same crap we've been getting.  Plus old beat-in-one-sitting games relied on a challenge to extend the length so you couldn't beat it on your first try.  But modern games are easier so they could also make it a short game that's a breeze to beat and that isn't any good either.  I just think that at this point a good Star Fox game would be a niche title.

It's actually pretty obvious where to go with a sequel.  The series revolves around a squadron of pilots but the good games are mostly single player.  Give the game some modern graphics and emphasize four player story mode and you're good to go.  But it isn't going to be some big runaway hit.

Are there any arcade style games released now a'days? Last I remember playing was Jungle Beat. Oh and shovelware mini game collections don't count.

If there is a major multiplayer aspect to it, the single player wouldn't have to be expanded into the current era. Like Time Splitters, CoD, MK, Smash Bros or Halo, Star Fox could be carried by its multiplayer. Co-op campaign and a ton of VS modes would ensure at least decent sales.

I wonder how many kids out there grew up around the Brawl time and don't really know who the Star Fox characters really are? Oh they are out there, I see them commenting on YouTube saying they love Star Fox, but only played the GameCube version ugh.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 05:35:14 PM »
you're trying too hard to troll

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 05:47:49 PM »
An online co-op mode would get me very interested in the series, that's what I would want to see from it. Here's my brief history with the series:

Star Fox - Own it, never played it
Star Fox 64 - Own it, never played it
Star Fox Adventures - Own it, never played it
Star Fox Assault - Plan to get at some point
Star Fox Command - Own it, never played it
Star Fox 64 3D - Pass

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 07:23:35 PM »
Mop it up, you need to go play Star Fox 64 immediately. I'm pret sure I've told you that several times before, but that's because it's one of the greatest games of all time.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 08:01:08 PM »
Geez, Mop, you make a point of collecting every N64 game there is and you don't even try to play one of it's most acclaimed titles?

As much as I hate to suggest it because it usually means handing it off to a b-team the arcade-style gameplay of Star Fox might better fit a downloadable title.  Those are usually cheaper and people are more willing to accept a smaller scope for such titles.  Old school titles like Mega Man and Contra found success in that format.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 08:53:48 PM »
I dunno Ian, I think I bigger Star Fox game can still be arcade-y and challenging. Seriously, they just need to make SF64 and ramp it up a notch. BAM!

Instead of one mission a planet or zone, make it 2 or 3 missions (ie levels) with a different part of that world. Corneria, the first half of the level in the original game is through a city type landscape and then it ends either over the ocean or over a an empty field. In the next game the first level can be the city again, defending from the first of the invaders. It'll be a railed level (mission 1), story wise you're clearing out the waves to buy some time for the Cornerian military to set up a proper defense. Challenge wise, your score determines the next level - Take out too few enemies in your first fly through of the city, and you have to stay within the city limits and help with the defense. This will be an all-range level (missions 2) ala Fortuna. Not only do you worry about getting into dog fights with some of the stronger enemies, but you have to defend key spots under heavy attack. Instead of the bomb scenario of Fortuna, certain buildings or zones have a survivor meter; the longer it takes you to eliminate the immidiate attacks on that location, the more the casualties thus the worse your score. Bam!

3rd mission, still in Corneria, let's go!
Level 1 - Mission 3: back to the corridor, this time you're racing through the more natural landscapes, storywise it would be to attack the invaders head on, aka boss time. Depending on which way you went for your second mission, you either end up in the forest (all-range boss fight at the end) or through mountain valleys (like when you follow Falco through the waterfall). ****, honestly.. it's been so long since we've had a good Star Fox game that I'd give Nintendo the free pass to completely re-do SF64's first level; Race through the mountain valley to cut over to the ocean and take on the boss (which was already lifted from the SNES game) or fight the giant mechanoid  in the fields. This would totally be acceptable if the game follows these examples of expanding the gameplay.

If they do that, bring back the speed of SF64 (none of that floaty Assault BS), have great local and on-line multi, this game would fucking work. The beauty of branching paths in the manner explained above is not only does it extend the game a few extra levels, but can make the game simpler without babying the rest of us. You go in, you rock the **** outta the level, and you follow it up with one at the same level or slightly more difficult. If you didn't do so well, the follow up level is all-range where speedy maneuvers don't matter as much, letting you get a hang of piloting your craft. Having big targets that are practically motionless while their attacking a certain building or site; that's letting the player work on aiming while they pilot by giving them much more breathing room. If you miss you can just circle back and keep attacking and you learn how to focus on a target while also evading the smaller threats. It's so simple.

Also, the more branching paths, the more replay value the game has for single player, especially when some stages can only be reached by taking certain paths. Same **** as SF64, just expanded upon. No you have a longer game if you choose to, or a quick arcade shooter if you want to blast through it (pun intended). Change the story up a bit depending on which missions you perform, your endings are different but no "bad" ending, so that you don't feel dissatisfied if you beat it on the easier paths. Maybe have certain team members leave you for a few missions, so that if you take a certain path, they might not be with you at the games finale, or something within the story makes you as the player question what exactly happened and thus want to go back and replay the game with the new route.

oh oh random thought about specific wii u gameplay ideas: if they want to do that path drawing stuff form the command games, please leave that to some sort of bonus mini-game.. I don't want that in the main game. ****, make that a Battleship-esque on-line multiplayer mini-game. Each person plots out a course which ends with a dog-fight. Point is, leave it out of single player.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 09:38:01 PM »
Ian, the reason why you think Star Fox is better suited as a download game is the reason I think it should have more game modes. It only takes a couple of hours to beat an on rails space shooter. That should be a given. The fun in the game is completing the missions, and then trying to better play those missions. That gets old after a while.

However, with more modes mean more to do. What if there was a random mission on top of the regular campaign mode? What if the levels were randomly generated by the computer? If a mission was really good you could play it again.

How about a shooter mode? Starfox 64 had shooter style gameplay in the multiplayer, what if this was expanded into something call of duty or halo style(or what if it offered both styles as different modes)

A really good game would have all sorts of different things to do within its universe. I like the idea of a variety type game with basically serveral different games with what used to be considered robust sub-games. The point is getting the most play-value out of the experience.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 11:02:45 PM »
Take the multiplayer from Star Fox Assault, up the player count, put it online, and add pointer controls.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 11:09:17 PM »
EasyCure that post is wonderful.

Insanolord, my biggest problem with the Assault version was that the Arwings moved so slowly. With such giant stages I never felt like I could get anywhere fast enough so despite the extreme(almost intentional and epic) slowdown of SF64, it was faster and more frantic.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: It's A Handy Mans Dream - Star Fox
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2013, 11:26:53 PM »
I'm being completely honest when I say that my biggest problem with Assault was the Arwing missions feel too slow. I'm an advocate for exploring more of what team Star Fox can do outside of their Arwings, they're basically mercenaries so explore that side of them with on-foot missions, just make them WORK well enough.

My first post in this thread mentioned a previous SF post I've mentioned before, I'll get to the gist of it here since I know i'll never dig out that old post...

If Nintendo wants to put in Assault style on-foot missions, they should be more like Sin & Fucking punishment, which everyone compared to SF anyway. The last time I advocated this idea was before Sin & Punishment 2 came out and since it had been so long since playing the original SP, I never would of thought to use that as an example. It perfectly portrays how SF gameplay can be done while on foot and on rails, especially the first game which didn't have jetpacks. The Landmaster levels in SF64 weren't that bad, on-foot levels shouldn't be either..
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 01:50:10 PM »
H


February 21st, 1993 marks the 20th anniversary of our beloved Star Fox. Noticed this on Neogaf and thought I'd bring it over.


Who knows if Nintendo really cares with it being Luigi's year and all. Though I still have hope for a surprise Wii U version of the game being revealed.


An on rails shooter would ensure amazing graphics. They could look as real and creepy as the actual puppets and hand made Arwing models from the original art work.


I dream of a day where we have huge multi team battles of around 16 players, 4 members on each team blasting each other out of the sky! The team based shoot em up is just what Nintendo's franchises need. The closest being Kid Icarus but the barrier of entry is a little tough with all the weapons and hard to master controls.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 02:55:30 PM by Caterkiller »
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Offline TrueNerd

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Re: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 02:24:20 PM »
Hey give Nintendo some credit, they did a lot for Metroid's 25th anniversary even though it was the same year as Zelda's!

Offline Caterkiller

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Two Tribes wants to make Star Fox
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 02:08:28 AM »
Two Tribes wants to make Star Fox for Wii U. Seems like everyone else but Nintendo sees so much potential in the series but them.


Quote
I think we could make a damn fine Star fox game for Wii U. Yes, a classic Star fox game would be awesome to work on.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 02:27:39 AM »
Didn't Miyamoto talk about wanting to do Star Fox? It seems like everyone's on board with the idea, so hopefully it's just a matter of time.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 02:40:51 AM »
Didn't Miyamoto talk about wanting to do Star Fox? It seems like everyone's on board with the idea, so hopefully it's just a matter of time.

Yeah he mentioned wanting to make a Wii Star Fox years ago and a little more recently with the SF64 3D release. He basically said we will see a new SF if 3D sells well. I hope it's just a matter of time I really do.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Fox's 20th Anniversary!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 03:41:43 AM »
Actually Ian, that is a perfect game...and could sell as a pretty great downloadable Title.  Or as a secondary mode of play.

I imagine a game where you have a map and real time communication with your team.  In that you can quickly tap on their user Icon and give them directions.  and even draw a path for them.  That way you can build strategy to defeat bosses and draw patterns for your team to help you, and for you to tell them how you can help them in the dog fights. 

Then you could have a pretty robust single player game.  Give each level multiple paths easy, medium, hard, and still have the ability to pick a route to the final boss is great.  But just let the players pick and not make it so difficult with secrets.

Then for multiplayer you have online with 4 players or 2 and 2 squad play with tablet and screen controls.  Each level is reworked and you can play all the levels with a new feel.

For added replay you can have a mode that randomizes patterns unlocked after you beat the game.

Finally, you can have the entire Star Fox multiplayer experience 8 player death matches, 4-4 team battles.  Tanks, Spaceships, on foot.  Just like in Star Fox 64.