Topic: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"

[Mario]

Honestly, I wish Nintendo would just show good game footage in their commercials.

[Hostile Creation]

"Yeah, Mario Party 6 is a pretty amazing piece of art."

Shut up.  For every bad game Nintendo has made this generation, I can throw out two or three that kick ass.  Mario Party 6 is a cheap title.  Americanized, if you will.  Anyway, it's really pitiful to throw out something like that.

Nothing wrong with americanization, though it seems to me Nintendo already is.  They have second parties here (Retro), and few of the quirk titles I'd actually love to play make it over anyway.  It's all in English.  What exactly do you want, for people to blow the crap out of each other?  It's not perfect, no.  But that's not the problem, and it's still improving regardless.
If you're asking a company that is primarily Japanese to become more "American" for the sake of improving sales, that's just plain insulting and you should use some goddamn sense.

I can't be bothered to read all of that, whether it's valid or not, but I did randomly read section 6.  His logic there is admittedly ridiculous, and most of that bouncing around is his own speculation and not anything that the public cares to acknowledge or that Nintendo has said.  Since when have they said that the SP is for kids and the DS is the adult replacement.  So far as I can tell, both still equally appeal to both audiences.  Anyway, I didn't read it all so I can't say much, but that one point strikes me as being at least somewhat invalid.

[meldavid]

I want pie.

[matt oz]

I was watching CNBC the other day, and they were talking about all these game developers' stocks going up this year, and then they segwayed into the console market for 2005.

They mentioned the PS3.  They mentioned the next XBox.  They mentioned the PSP.

They failed to mention Nintendo, and even the DS.  Nintendo just released a brand new system, and it's being totally ignored by the mainstream media in America.  If that's not a sign that they need to Americanize, then what is?

And Bill, for the record, Nintendo is not an artist, it is a corporation.   It is a business that needs to make money to survive.  And you still seem to be unable to distinguish Nintendo the corporation from Nintendo the developer.  Your artist analogy is flawed because an artist can die poor and hungry making good art, or he can die old and rich making popular art.
And yes, I know Nintendo is making money, but looking at their financial statements for the 2004 fiscal year, they didn't make as much as they did in 2003, and that is not a good sign for shareholders or potential investors.

And Berto, who cares if people know the name EA or not?  They are the largest publisher in the world, with the most employees, and the highest profits.  It may not be a household name now, but the way they're heading, they will be soon.

[MaleficentOgre]

I want to know how the F*** mario party gets better with each game, but continues to get lower scores. while madden releases the same game every fricking year and keeps getting better scores. In case you're wondering, mario party 6 is the best mario party game to date, and is truly awesome. but i guess since its not a sports title its not allowed to have sequel. oh well.

[Caillan]

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I mean Nintendo fans somehow ignore anything remotely negative about Nintendo as rubbish.

I think most of us are just sick of Nintendo being DOOMED, as they've been so for the the past few years and it's really getting old now. They're making good profits, and they're making good games.

Everyone on these forums is DOOMED  

[Ian Sane]

Look!  It's an editorial that suggests that Nintendo needs to make some changes and isn't 100% perfect.  And sure enough the usual suspects are here to bash it because God forbid anyone suggest that Nintendo is in potential trouble.

I don't agree with everything in this article (the GBA being obsolete is pretty wacky for example) but Mr Kent does make some good points.  Just because you don't like everything presented doesn't mean there isn't something worthwhile in the editorial.

1. Abandon the ‘belle of the ball’ mentality.

Pretty standard criticism of Nintendo's relationship with third parties.  Criticises Nintendo's sheer arrogance which is something they need to fix.  I disagree with the part about system shortages though.  Sony has had more problems getting PSPs into Japanese stores than Nintendo has with the DS.  Plus Sony had the infamous PS2 launch shortage.  Nintendo has problems but system shortages isn't a crucial one.

2. Forget the bottom line.

I agree completely with this point.  Nintendo and many of their fans often use profitability to justify Nintendo’s under performance.  This is a short term benefit.  If less people buy Nintendo systems each generation then eventually they will lose money.  That’s just simple logic that anyone can figure out.

3. Know your market and stick to it.

The main point here looks to be that Nintendo targets kids yet kids aren’t interested in stuff that’s for kids.  Kids like stuff with guns and dark themes and stuff teens and adults like.  They like cool stuff.  That’s immature and a little sick but that’s how it is.  I think Nintendo needs to create more games that bridge the gap between kids and adults.  Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, and Metroid Prime are all great examples of games like this.  From a creative standpoint I don’t want them to alter their games in inappropriate ways just because of this but I don’t see why they can’t just have Mario stop talking with his stupid voice and make Yoshi look and sound like he did in Yoshi’s Island again.

4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize

Looking at this title I had an kneejerk reaction to reject the points made here.  But reading what he means by “Americanize” it doesn’t sound so bad.  I like Japanese games far more than American ones.  The Japanese make art.  Most American publishers make product.  My desire to see Nintendo succeed is purely because I want them to survive so they can make the games I like.  I don’t want them changing their games just to make money.  That’s not exactly what’s being said here though.  Kent mentions that Nintendo needs a network of American devs and I agree completely.  Nintendo let Rare and SK go without making any real attempt to replace them.  That SUCKS.  Without quality non-Japanese devs Nintendo lacks diversity in its lineup.  The fact that they’re so Japanese isn’t the problem as much as that they’re so homogenous.  Non-Japanese devs contribute types of games Nintendo wouldn’t make on their own and those are essential additions to their lineup.  Does anyone here have a problem with Nintendo having a group of exclusive non-Japanese developers at their disposal?  They had one when the Cube launched and we all thought it was a great idea.

5. Keep doing what you do right

Seems like a “well duh” point.  Obviously Nintendo should continue to do what they do right.

6. Stop with the mid-course corrections and hold to the basics

I don’t quite get what he’s saying here.  Going with one strategy and sticking to it is a good idea but I don’t think Nintendo really has problems with this.  They just need a good strategy to begin with.

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all

YES!  I’ve said it several times: the Revolution has to be PERFECT.  That means there should be no silly easily avoidable mistakes like the N64 and Cube have.  That means providing all options including online support and a flexible controller.  That means not providing any excuses for someone to reject the Revolution because with Nintendo’s recent track record people are looking for those excuses and they’re not looking hard.  It won’t take much to make someone apathetic to the Revolution.

Then Kent does his little MS-Nintendo union pipe dream which aside from being unrealistic is pretty stupid since MS would clearly benefit more from that.  Though I don’t think an alliance with a third party would be a bad idea.  Dropping licencing fees in exchange for exclusive support from Capcom for example could be lucrative and would benefit both parties in the long run.

So in conclusion I agree with some of Kent’s points and disagree with others.  He’s got some good points in there and although his solutions aren’t perfect he is right about one important thing: Nintendo needs to make some changes.

[Berto2K]

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Originally posted by: matt oz
I was watching CNBC the other day, and they were talking about all these game developers' stocks going up this year, and then they segwayed into the console market for 2005.

They mentioned the PS3.  They mentioned the next XBox.  They mentioned the PSP.

They failed to mention Nintendo, and even the DS.  Nintendo just released a brand new system, and it's being totally ignored by the mainstream media in America.  If that's not a sign that they need to Americanize, then what is?

Sorry Matt, CNBC is hardly mainstream media.  CNBC is for older adults, not the 18-25 year olds that most game developers are pushing for.  Heck even the average 25-30 year old doesn't watch CNBC.  How do I know?  I am surrounded by them at both of my 2 jobs as coworkers and as customers.  Wasn't it, oh thats right...the DS was labeled as the "Tickle Me Elmo" of this last holiday season by multiple media/news outlets.  It got plenty of attention.  When I was in stores just wasting time playing the demo units, parents would walk by and recognize it.  Did they know what it was called exactly? No, but they new what is was and that is all that is needed to generate sales.

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Originally posted by: matt oz
And Bill, for the record, Nintendo is not an artist, it is a corporation.   It is a business that needs to make money to survive.  And you still seem to be unable to distinguish Nintendo the corporation from Nintendo the developer.  Your artist analogy is flawed because an artist can die poor and hungry making good art, or he can die old and rich making popular art.
And yes, I know Nintendo is making money, but looking at their financial statements for the 2004 fiscal year, they didn't make as much as they did in 2003, and that is not a good sign for shareholders or potential investors.

First of all, yes Nintendo is a corporation but it is made up of game designers who are artists.  Why are there not game design majors in art schools if it is not an art form?  You analogy is flawed as well.  An artist can die poor and hungry making popular art as well becuase it will blend in and get mixed with everything else that looks like it, or an artist can die old and rich from making unique art that stands out and is valued more.  The last part of your paragraph is the most fun though.  How can you predict Nintendo's financial statements when their financial year doesn't end until the end of March???  You have a DS launch in Australia in mid February, and numerous quality titles coming out across all three platforms before then.

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Originally posted by: matt oz
And Berto, who cares if people know the name EA or not?  They are the largest publisher in the world, with the most employees, and the highest profits.  It may not be a household name now, but the way they're heading, they will be soon.

See thats where your not connecting.  They will not know the company name.  They don't care to.  They have a better chance of connecting a game to a developer if you tell them "It was made by the same company that made Madden." They hear Madden and $$$ sales ++.  Thats all they care about/need.  All they look for is the name on the box which is the title.  Perfect example is Enter the Matrix.  People saw the name of the game and bought it up as quickly as rabbits giving birth because the name was cool.  We all knew the game was mediocre at best.  But that doesn't matter to them.  

[Infernal Monkey]

Nintendo should make a McDonalds game or something. Their next console should also support DVD, VCD, VHS, Beta, CD, Video-Now and records along with games for the hungry value seeking consumer that wants to listen to their ABBA record instead of using the system as a games machine. Nintendo also needs to get EA to make Madden X: Madden's porn collection exclusive to their next system. Along with a deal to get seventeen new Tom Clancy games every three days.

Nintendo are DOOMED if they don't do all this.

[Procession]

Madden and porn are two words that should NEVER be used in same sentence.

[joeposh]

Everyone who is sitting here claiming that Nintendo needs to stay the course and that then proceeds to berate the "uninformed consumer" who just cares about the new Madden title is completely missing the point. Nintendo is not "DOOMED" but they are losing the battle of public opinion by a landslide, which could spell disaster for the next generation of consoles...

It's not about image or the types of games that are being made as much as the hype factor. The Xbox was struggling to keep it's head above water up until recently but due to an amazing PR campain they managed to make titles like Fable and Halo 2 must have titles, not only for Xbox owners but for the vast majority of casual gamers. Halo is a household name now... not because of commercials or game footage but because of hype. Hype that was spread through incredible word of mouth... not since FF7 have I seen one game move so many systems. It established Xbox as the clear 2nd in the market and made them the hot console.

At the same time Nintendo launched one of it's biggest sequels.... Metroid Prime 2, yet another amazing title and one that should have appealed to a large demographic. Unfortunately the hoopla surrounding it was minimal. No grand proclomations or savy promos... just a series of ehh commercials aired on various cable networks and a system bundle. If you didn't already know what Metroid was, you didn't care. Nintendo needs to make people care again... Xbox has one amazing series and it takes off... Nintendo has Metroid, Zelda, and various other video game icons that could easily become pop culture staples once more if an effective and innovative LONG TERM (Zelda teaser magazine AD's should appearing like... tomorrow to really start things off right) promotional campaign were set into motion.

They also need to bring back series like Punch Out that would appeal to the masses instead of sticking Mario in every new sports game they produce, as has been said before... he is beloved... but anyone who buys a game just cause mario is in it probably owns a gamecube already anyway, it's good for pushing 3rd party software but not for moving consoles and increasing marketshare.

Nintendo needs momentum going into the next generation. Resident Evil 4 may give them a catalyst to spark a renewed interest in the Gamecube... but they need to follow it up with some strong promotions for other games (i.e. the new "adult" Zelda series) to really make significant gains.  Halo 2 and GTA are finally starting to quiet down... they can't squander this oppertunity to finally get some traction.

[WuTangTurtle]

here's my 2 cents, if anyone is still reading this thread.

Nintendo needs to find a way to change its image.  Revolution IMO needs to perfect ONLINE console gaming.  Lets face it Xbox live is not a success (either is Sony's).

I've had Xbox live for over a year and I hardly ever use it (only reason i still have it is they gave me a free second year).  All Xbox live does is connect xbox's system on a network not an actual server.  

Nintendo should have online servers so that ppl can go into their "fav server" and play against some familiar ppl.  Xbox live is done wrong because u play against one person and you have to instantly decide to befriend them or not.

Nintendo should make their online gaming more of a community.  MMO games work extremingly well because of the community aspect.

Nintendo ads need serious changes, forget being funny.  Nintendo needs to be informative.  They need to sell to the consumer, in other words inform them to death like a sales person untill they say "I'm sold!"

Revolution needs to do the same, tell me why it is better.  Does it have online?  Online is Free? How many games? Wireless Controller included? Includes mic for online gaming?  Includes a (Insert AAA title)?  etc.

IMO if they crammed down reasons why to buy over the competition and i do mean advertisements that put XboxNext and PS3 in direct comparision and then say why Revolution is better would work because without that ppl simply are not informed at all.  But of course do it in a stylish way.

if u don't inform why it is better thats where ppl say XboxNext or PS3?

As for 3rd party suuport Nintendo needs to give developers a 80% off fees for launch window games and 50% off fees for any game made within the first generation.  This is seriously important beacause american and european developers already know that the Gamecube is the easiest to develop for but the lowest in profit margins due to sales and fees.


It's now freaking late and im tired so i quit.  Sorry for wasting your time.

[matt oz]

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by berto:
The last part of your paragraph is the most fun though.  How can you predict Nintendo's financial statements when their financial year doesn't end until the end of March???

I was talking about the financial year that ended in March of 2004.  That's why it's called the 2004 Financial Statement on Nintendo's corporate website.  If you still don't understand, then I'm afraid I can't make it any more clear.  

[Caillan]

First of all, Nintendo's most important goal as a business should be keeping their fans happy. They can make good profits from their existing fanbase alone, so as a company, it logically follows that before EAD start developing generic WWII shooters, they should try and pass it with the fanbase first.

Secondly, who is to say that Nintendo hasn't attempted to make these changes yet? At E3 when they admitted they needed to focus on a larger market. Good games take at least two years to develop, and these sorts of adjustments will also take time.
Marketing is the same. Right now Nintendo has to actually work its way up from having a negative image to a positive one, and especially concentrate on being able to successfully advertise Zelda to the North American market. I can't comment on the marketing myself because I come from New Zealand, but just now I read something on GameSpy praising Nintendo's recent marketing. I don't think I've ever seen anything very posititve about Nintendo on GameSpy before.

If Kent had of stuck to one or two main criticisms, this article would have been fine, but instead he contradicts himself about shortages and calls the GBA 'obsolete'.  

[Berto2K]

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Originally posted by: matt oz

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by berto:
The last part of your paragraph is the most fun though.  How can you predict Nintendo's financial statements when their financial year doesn't end until the end of March???

I was talking about the financial year that ended in March of 2004.  That's why it's called the 2004 Financial Statement on Nintendo's corporate website.  If you still don't understand, then I'm afraid I can't make it any more clear.

I completely understand it when you put it that way.  But still, lets look at what could happen in the '05 statements.  You have the launch of the DS in JPN, North America, and Australia.  Not to metion large releases like RE4, MP2, Mario Party 6 (laugh if you want, it sells), Minish Cap, Mario DS, Wario Ware DS/GBA, and others.  That is just the end of the last calendar year let alone the first have of 2004.  Nintendo is putting themselves in the right spot to go out on a high point momemtum-wisewith the Cube and growing momentum for Revolution.

[oohhboy]

Looks like Steve took an dumbass pill when he wrote this.

The DS is fine. Launches historically have always ran into some shortage problems of one sort or another. Engineered or otherwise. His first point should have been retitled "Nintendo should get off it's imaginary perch". While the store policies of the NES era is effective, Steve forgot that that Hiroshi was then willing to play Hitler with the third parties with a no one gets out alive type tactics. naturally, such tactics have been deemed unethical, nintendo must do more to ensure that third parties honour agreements made. Hell, the industry needs more honour all round.

Nintendo can't afford to hemmerage away thier wealth. it's got nothing to fall back on. They arn't trying to break in to an industry. There is more than one way for a company to die. Bleeding to death is not an option. A shareholder exodus would kill the entire company just as surely. Nintendo can't win via attrition. not going to win through Viva resistance Apple style. Needs something closer to a D-day.

What Nintendo is good at is not the 0 to 15 year-old bracket. What they are good at are games. Nuff said.

nintendo doesn't need a funamental shift of policy in the games they make. They need to give thier subsideries in America and Europe a free hand with a cheque. Along with that, a strong communications network connecting them to avoid overlap and having the company suing itself like Sony like to do.

5. Keep doing what you do right. No brainer.

A more defined game plan is needed. if you got a problem, you go fix it. If you have to change tack to catch better wind. So be it. Make it count and be loud about it. Steve forgets that Sony and MS got lucky. Nintendo could have rode on Goldeneye anlmost indefinatly if not for FF7. SSBM would have wasted PS2 if the console wasn't 1 year late. MS managed to milk Halo effectively. 2nd place or 3rd place, PS2 is the winner and there is no comparison. Yeah your second place. But what about the guy in front of you?

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all.

On the surface, it looks like good advice. But if they don't do anything, the generation after they would be forced to re-break into the market. A potentally worse position that releasing a super computer in a box. Nintendo must play thier cards regardless. They must hold ground for a daring move that other can see, but are unwilling to to take. Not slapping online to anything that moves. Not slapping Mario in a prono. Something that other companies would be forced to stand up and follow. Revolution, if is this that daring plan, then god speed. Otherwise that is one hell of an overblown name for a console.

[Plugabugz]

They need to give thier subsideries in America and Europe a free hand with a cheque.

Replace America with Australia. I still think Nintendo Europe and Australia are the left hand that doesn't know what the right hand [Nintendo America/Japan] is doing. They are out of touch, and the quality of marketing used doesn't generally attract attention. Subtle Japanese humour doesn't work effectively on British Television.
While Microsoft put simple, yet effective ads on the sides of buses for Halo 2, and there was huge billboards for GTA: San Andreas, that was designed to gather mass attention - nintendo uses methods that are quirky but don't have sticking power. The Donkey Konga advert is a good example.
The public, in my opinion, has since moved away from being told what to buy but how to attract their attention and indirectly told to do so. Nintendo have stuck to the previous formula, which resulting, is out of date.

One of my favourite artists sang (Nina Jayne - No Ordinary Pain): There's always someone worse off than yourself.
Nintendo shouldn't even contemplate fixing Japan and America when there are weaker links in the chain that need dealing with first.  

[couchmonkey]

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Originally posted by: odifiend

Nintendo's problem is the vicious cycle.  Kent and IGN don't want this to happen again so they make these lists hoping that Nintendo execs get it perfect this time.  I think a lot of their analysis is pretty accurate but sometimes it is not delivered in the best way, especially with IGN.

This is exactly what I wanted to say.  Steven Kent and even IGNCube mean well.  Both want to see Nintendo succeed, and they write articles like this in the hopes of getting across what they think Nintendo needs to improve on.  In some cases they may be misguided or plain ol' wrong, but I think a lot of Nintendo fans are misguided or plain 'ol wrong in thinking that these are articles AGAINST Nintendo.  The people who write these articles love Nintendo, but realize that it's struggling.  If these people really hated Nintendo, they just wouldn't write an article about the company at all, they'd ignore Nintendo like everyone else does!

My point is, don't dismiss these articles as people being Nintendo haters, it's not true.

As for the article itself, there were a lot of things I disagreed with, but he made some good points.  I'd like to see Nintendo shift it's focus from GBA to 95% DS as soon as possible.  Let third parties carry the GBA on for as long as it can last, Nintendo's future is in the DS.  I also agree that Nintendo needs to go online and needs to make Revolution as graphically capable as the other systems, although the notion of teaming up with Microsoft is blasphemy.

[Deguello]

What I got from it is that he wants Nintendo to stop being Nintendo.

This is another one of those OMG Doomed articles, and it's not really any different than what I have heard or read before.  the fact that Steven Kent wrote it leaves me deeply, deeply disappointed.

[Savior]

How is being number 1 not being Nintendo? Lets  not forget the SNES was number 1, they werent a soulless EA wannabe...

In the end some Nintendo fans simply dont want anything negative said about Nintendo. Nintendo cannot stay the course and survive.  The PSP already has a GTA... If you dont think thats a juggernaut waiting to happen then your truelly blind

[KDR_11k]

Bah. Americanization. That's almost as evil as ISO 9001:2000. Broadening their lineup is okay I guess but don't expect me to buy or play those games. Maybe broadening could begin with spawning new franchises instead of throwing Mario at those ideas. Because that would be perceived as more variety and in this case perception is reality.
I'm not sure how successful western-oriented Nintendo games would be. What would be the point of those? Westerners (apparently, because I can't see it) want samey games with lotsa graphics and gore (while the public voted bush, game publishers and the ESRB rather have gore in their games ) and stuff and I don't see how Nintendo could create an appealing offer there. How would Nintendo's games stand out there? "Oooh, Gory Fragfest 19 was made by that Mario-company!" I mean, when you want to sell a product you have to make people want the product and since making them want it out of hype isn't something Nintendo is good at they need to make them want it by offering a product that's actually desirable. But how could they do that when they're trying to make a samey graphics game?

[Dirk Temporo]

I'd have to say I'd be some kind of pissed if Nintendo ever pulled the "Americanization" thing. They do too much of that already. Half the games I want wind up staying in Japan, because they won't sell well over here, because Americans wouldn't know a good game if it slapped them in the face and said "GOOGLEDYGORP!"

EDIT: And the Red Sox curse lasted longer than 50 years. What is this guy, retarded? Also, I don't want exactly what he said. Some "$300 super computer machine" or whatever. I want a system that plays games. I already have THREE DVD players. I don't need another one. And the Internet? I HAVE A COMPUTER! Jeez...

[Ian Sane]

"I'm not sure how successful western-oriented Nintendo games would be. What would be the point of those?"

Ever played Goldeneye?  You know, that non-Japanese Nintendo published classic that sold millions of copies and remains one of the best games ever made?  Or how about Metroid Prime? Or DONKEY KONG COUNTRY?!  It's possible for Nintendo to publish a game with western designs and still have it be amazing and feel like a Nintendo game.  It's possible because it's been done NUMEROUS times.  Why do you think Rare was such a big deal on the SNES and N64?  Not only is the idea possible but it worked really well.

[odifiend]

What is really sad is that Goldeneye, a Nintendo co-produced game, essentially started the FPS craze, yet Nintendo doesn't have a good shooter for the cube...

[Savior]

What would be wrong with adding more Western developers? Yeah we dont want another Retro right? Nintendo could use less crap like Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness, or Metroid Prime? Lol...  Thats what americanization is. Adding more US/Europe developers. Nintendo of Japan can continue making the Mario Parties that would keep yall happy...  Heck Nintendo even had Rockstar SanDiego but let those guys go...  or Left Field...  basically they let go their only producers of Sports games