Topic: The original IP thread

[PaLaDiN]

No, I can't see Miyamoto working on horror.

I can't actually see him working on any existing genre, actually. He usually does his own thing with reckless abandon.

[KDR_11k]

Well, horror is a theme, not a genre. He could make a completely new kind of game that still scares the user.

[OptimusPrime]

Didn't Iwata say at E3 that Miyamoto was pushing his teams to make something completly new? As i see it Miyamoto isn't going to thinker the new IP from zero on is own but all the creative people behind the scene are tinkering of something and Miyamoto just has to approve them (the "use the approve stamp" job shigsy had once) and help with the final concept of the new IP.
So if it is the team thats making the new IP and Shigsy just putting a close eye on it it could be anything. I remember Acclaim receiving help from Shigsy and a few core-EAD pleople with the making of Shadowman (when Acclaim was actually good in the N64-era). If shigsy was really in charge of the game from zero don't expect nothing violent.
But it seems its not the case, shigsy just told a team to make something new and he'll support that, even if it is violent. So bring on my real-time turned based mecha tactical RPG that also involves magic and airpirates! (Not going to give details on that, i send a few rpg-ideas once about 6 years ago to a small team and bam 2 years later they used it, not us deep or complex as i proposed but it was half there).

[KDR_11k]

Optimus Prime: Don't think anything of that, most developers will throw game ideas that reach them into the circular filing cabinet without reading them. The reason is that you can't claim they've made a derivative of your idea which would mean you're entitled to royalities. IOW they'd open themselves up to lawsuits if they read these ideas and implemented them, even if they had thought of it before.

[nemo_83]

I look at the industry and what it has become in only a short period of time.

The game industry is selling out to the movie industry like Native Americans giving up their land to early white settlers for liquor.


No, a better analogy can be found in Revenge of the Sith.  The game industry is like Skywalker, destined to become stronger than all who have come before; and the movie industry is like the learned Palpatine, using its forked tongue to play the powerful young apprentice like a harp.  Following this logic one could forsee that the apprentice will befall a tragedy soon becoming more machine than man.  Their is hope though.  

[Kairon]

Does this mean that the gaming industry will eventually after a period of darkness fulfill the prophecy and brince balance to the many mediums of entertainment?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Robotor]

Nemo I like your idea of a game focusing on an evil antagonist, but your analogys need some work.

My dream game would be a perfectly balanced beat-em up, with a character creation system so large every single person could look different.  It would have RPG elements much like River City Ransom, but would be a bit more complex.  There would be a special move creation system, that uses the 100's of preset moves in different combinations.  The stats would grow in a way similiar to a racing game, whereas you are either fast and weaker, or a giant tank of a man.  The graphics would be cel-shaded, with slight manga overtones.  The game would be overly violent, much like Kill Bill.

The game would have a massive single player game, that allows for co-op.  The single player game would have HARD puzzles, great platforming sections, and intense boss fights.  There would also be an online game with a turf wars style set up.  It would use the city from the single player game and have a turf war system.  You could join different gangs, and try to hold the most turf.  Or act as a free agent, and help other gangs for money.  Or you could be a lone rider, and simply kill all in your path.

The story line of the game would involve demons and the yakuza.  It would be cheesy, and the dialouge would be similiar to old kung-fu moviesand old gangster films.  The soundtrack would be jazz.  No Rock, no orchestration.  I mean a sound track of nothing but hard swing, bop, funk, and afro-cuban jazz.  This would lend itself very well to the style of the game.

Also no guns, its all hardcore hand to hand combat.  Or sticks, rocks, or whatever else you find lying around.

I might be able to get some character sketches up if this thread isnt dead by the time my arm heals.

[blackfootsteps]

I'd rather a story of 'Good v Neutral'

[ThePerm]

mostly pictures of architecture...some naked harem dancers creeped up in there however

[nemo_83]

In an interview George explained how when he wrote the original trilogy he imagined Luke as representing himself, the independent film maker.  He thought of Vader as the machine that fathered him, the big movie industry.

When he wrote the new trilogy he went back to this analogy viewing himself this time as Vader and Palpatine as the temptor.  You could say he took it all a bit far in that he has adopted a method for this.  To further put over that he has become the machine he once fought against he made the new trilogy mechanical, stiff, and flat.  He made the new trilogy in computers.  Like I said he took the method too far.  He almost screwed up the new trilogy if you ask me.



Look at E3, there were many pieces of hardware and very few games.  The industry is in a race to quit trying to make games and create the system with the most unrealized potential.  Power is viewed as the solution to fix games right now, but it is not right.  My NES has the greatest games of all time despite its lack of hardware and entertainment features unrelated to games.  Power is not going to make games fun.  Imagination will.  I say there is still hope, but they may mean the hope is years down the road.  We may be facing another crash.  

How it happens is it begins with the industry becoming more focused on numbers sold rather than money made.  Sony is in debt up to its eyeballs and not generating profit fast enough.  They may seem on top of the world, but their game devision has generated only half the profits Nintendo has in the past five years.  MS is not making any money and even if the 360 does make them money it will never fill the hole Xbox left in shareholder pockets.  The only hope, Nintendo, is looking like they don't care about early adopters or hardcore gamers anymore.  They're holding Zelda hostage.  People don't buy Nintendo consoles to get Mario Party games.  They buy Nintendo consoles for one of the three big franchises like Zelda and the hope that they will not only get the next Zelda installment, but the next Zelda from Nintendo.  Basically I'm saying Nintendo is preventing themselves from moving forward.  Either they start making original stuff to go along with Zelda rather than filler like Mario Pinball, or gamers are going to not buy Nintendo and Nintendo will finally have to free Zelda.  They are going to force themselves to have to go third party.  This is one industry where loyalties and trust can take you far, but if you lose that trust you may discover you have nothing left to keep you afloat.  Nintendo fans may not like the idea of Nintendo as a third party but a lot of people will give a resounding, "YES!"  Gamers will nolonger have to buy a Nintendo console and search their butts off for a game to keep them busy just so they can eventually play Zelda.  Gamers will only buy the big games from Nintendo then, and man, I don't think that is what Nintendo wants (they like selling rehash Mario sports games so much they'll probably port them all over to REV with better graphics even though we'll already be able to get them for cheap on N64 and Cube).  It seems Nintendo would rather make several small safe games rather than make one new epic that has potential to outsell everything else they put out.  They would rather sell a couple hundred thousand copies of several cheaply made games rather than make one risky game that could possibly sell ten million copies.

[KDR_11k]

The industry is in a race to quit trying to make games and create the system with the most unrealized potential.

Bip-Bip-BIPBIPBIPBIP *boom*
Crap, there goes my bullshit detector.
Read that again and think about what you are implying. The games industry isn't homogenous, EA isn't Microsoft, etc. When the MS hardware department stuffs in bigger specs, does that mean, say, Ubisoft will just sit back and expect the specs to make the money for them? No, Ubisoft makes games. The games must sell to keep the company afloat. The specs merely mean stiffer competition and more possible game ideas. Graphics are a part of a great game, not the great game itself. Look at Doom 3 vs. Half-Life 2. HL2 sold a LOT more than Doom 3 despite being technically inferior because many people believe it's fun. Making a fun game still is a high priority at games companies because a good game will make them come back for more. Which means a franchise opportunity.

MS and Sony aren't the games industry. They are hardware providers that make the occassional game themselves. Their goal is to make the best possible hardware. Supplying it with games is the job of the games companies. A researcher in Sony's hardware division (or even one at IBM) will not think "well, yes, great specs but where are the games?", they'll think "I'll make sure it runs as fast as possible, where the missile comes down isn't my department".

Nintendo has no wiggling room. The only people who buy their consoles want to buy the games they regularly produce, making new kinds of games runs the risk that these might not appeal to the standard Nintendo fanbase. If they had a huge userbase that has fans of every genre they'd risk much less by making a game that is not a "safe bet" because as long as the game is good they know enough people will like it.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: OptimusPrime
Didn't Iwata say at E3 that Miyamoto was pushing his teams to make something completly new? As i see it Miyamoto isn't going to thinker the new IP from zero on is own but all the creative people behind the scene are tinkering of something and Miyamoto just has to approve them (the "use the approve stamp" job shigsy had once) and help with the final concept of the new IP.
So if it is the team thats making the new IP and Shigsy just putting a close eye on it it could be anything. I remember Acclaim receiving help from Shigsy and a few core-EAD pleople with the making of Shadowman (when Acclaim was actually good in the N64-era). If shigsy was really in charge of the game from zero don't expect nothing violent.
But it seems its not the case, shigsy just told a team to make something new and he'll support that, even if it is violent. So bring on my real-time turned based mecha tactical RPG that also involves magic and airpirates! (Not going to give details on that, i send a few rpg-ideas once about 6 years ago to a small team and bam 2 years later they used it, not us deep or complex as i proposed but it was half there).

Bwahahaha!  I knew Shadowman had something special.  I never knew Shig lended a hand on that game, but I have always thought it was one of the most original games on the N64.  God, that game was awesome.  The moment I saw lips moving in in-game graphics on N64 along with the voice acting in that game I was hooked.  Most people never picked it up.  It was like Zelda meets the movie Seven.

[nemo_83]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The industry is in a race to quit trying to make games and create the system with the most unrealized potential.

Bip-Bip-BIPBIPBIPBIP *boom*
Crap, there goes my bullshit detector.
Read that again and think about what you are implying. The games industry isn't homogenous, EA isn't Microsoft, etc. When the MS hardware department stuffs in bigger specs, does that mean, say, Ubisoft will just sit back and expect the specs to make the money for them? No, Ubisoft makes games. The games must sell to keep the company afloat. The specs merely mean stiffer competition and more possible game ideas. Graphics are a part of a great game, not the great game itself. Look at Doom 3 vs. Half-Life 2. HL2 sold a LOT more than Doom 3 despite being technically inferior because many people believe it's fun. Making a fun game still is a high priority at games companies because a good game will make them come back for more. Which means a franchise opportunity.

MS and Sony aren't the games industry. They are hardware providers that make the occassional game themselves. Their goal is to make the best possible hardware. Supplying it with games is the job of the games companies. A researcher in Sony's hardware division (or even one at IBM) will not think "well, yes, great specs but where are the games?", they'll think "I'll make sure it runs as fast as possible, where the missile comes down isn't my department".

Nintendo has no wiggling room. The only people who buy their consoles want to buy the games they regularly produce, making new kinds of games runs the risk that these might not appeal to the standard Nintendo fanbase. If they had a huge userbase that has fans of every genre they'd risk much less by making a game that is not a "safe bet" because as long as the game is good they know enough people will like it.

You got me; when I was saying the industry was in a race to create the most powerful hardware I was talking about Sony and MS.  I guess because in America they hold the confidence of the mainstreme.  But I cannot ignore that the rest of the industry including Nintendo is not focusing on original software.  Nintendo seems to have led the software industry (despite the fact they didn't lead the hardware industry this gen) down a path of safe franchises.  Even now I am wondering if the MS that supported original games this gen will support original games next gen.  All have seen how profitable Nintendo has been in recent years.  Has Nintendo really won?  Has Nintendo proven their conservativism is the right way?  Are we hardcore gamers doomed to a future of waiting ten years between trully phenomenal games?

PS  since when has the word bullshit been uncensored on the boards?



Edit:  If what I just said makes no sense ignore it.  Its seven in the morning and I'm drunk.

[Dasmos]

Drinking in the morning.............the best hangover cure..

[Shift Key]

Quote
Its seven in the morning and I'm drunk.

Posting on PGC would be the last thing on my "Things to do while drunk early in the morning" list.
Top three things would be eating, more drinking and watching old-school Transformers.

Quote
But I cannot ignore that the rest of the industry including Nintendo is not focusing on original software. Nintendo seems to have led the software industry (despite the fact they didn't lead the hardware industry this gen) down a path of safe franchises. Even now I am wondering if the MS that supported original games this gen will support original games next gen. All have seen how profitable Nintendo has been in recent years. Has Nintendo really won?

The whole "safe franchise" idea cannot be blamed on the industry alone. Its more of a vicious cycle, where the gamers will buy a few games like hotcakes because it is a popular game, and the industry will react by producing more games that are similar to the 'hotcake-selling' titles, because there is little R&D required and there is a known interest/demand for that kind of game.

The cycle repeats over and over and over. There is no real motivation to make original software outside of "We'd like to make a game of style X, which there isn't much of currently on the market" because there is a big risk involved if it fails. And with the costs of developing a game rapidly increasing, fewer original software is going to appear on the shelves. Catch 22 anyone?

[nemo_83]

I got drunk playing questions last night.  My friend's girlfriend kept asking questions like, "do you have a *** *****?" and "do you want to ***** **** ***** ** ** ***** ***** tonight?" so I would have to drink because I couldn't concentrate on trying to ask someone else a question with her teasing me; it was cruel.  Later I came home, drank some tea, ate a hotdog for breakfast and got online to spend the time until class.  I sat through three hours of anthropology and got dehydrated.  By the time I got home my head felt like it was going to explode.  Then I puked in the toilet and went to sleep for the rest of the day.  What a waste.  I didn't even see Batman.  At least I aced my test this morning.