Topic: Super Mario RPG Finally Hits the Virtual Console...in Europe

[NWR_insanolord]

I didn't say I wasn't going to play it, I'll buy it as soon as it comes out, I have blocks reserved for it and Mega Man 2, another classic that I've never played before. I'm just sick of the argument; one of the first things I did on this forum was get into a big argument with Mashiro about the quality of Paper Mario, a game he hated because of Super Mario RPG.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I didn't say I wasn't going to play it, I'll buy it as soon as it comes out, I have blocks reserved for it and Mega Man 2, another classic that I've never played before. I'm just sick of the argument; one of the first things I did on this forum was get into a big argument with Mashiro about the quality of Paper Mario, a game he hated because of Super Mario RPG.

Paper Mario and Mario RPG are two completely different games. It is like comparing Zelda with Mario, it just does not work.

[Svevan]

This sounds like a waste of time because it is, and you can't even do that right, lightweight.

Deg's entire posting career is made up of [nearly, and sometimes out right] rule-breaking name-calling like this, almost always directed towards Ian. I don't care how ridiculous Ian can be, maybe you're the problem, not him?

[NWR_insanolord]

I didn't say I wasn't going to play it, I'll buy it as soon as it comes out, I have blocks reserved for it and Mega Man 2, another classic that I've never played before. I'm just sick of the argument; one of the first things I did on this forum was get into a big argument with Mashiro about the quality of Paper Mario, a game he hated because of Super Mario RPG.

Paper Mario and Mario RPG are two completely different games. It is like comparing Zelda with Mario, it just does not work.

That was essentially my argument, that Paper Mario wasn't trying to do what Super Mario RPG did, it was a different kind of game.

[Mario]

Hmmm tempting, huge fan of M&L and Paper Mario 1/2, but a big part of that was the humour. Mario RPG looks dull as dogshit in that respect. I'll check it out one day, still need to check out M&L2 as well, and SPM.

[Armak88]

I didn't say I wasn't going to play it, I'll buy it as soon as it comes out, I have blocks reserved for it and Mega Man 2, another classic that I've never played before. I'm just sick of the argument; one of the first things I did on this forum was get into a big argument with Mashiro about the quality of Paper Mario, a game he hated because of Super Mario RPG.

Paper Mario and Mario RPG are two completely different games. It is like comparing Zelda with Mario, it just does not work.

Saying that you can't compare the two doesn't really make sense. I mean it's not like one is a platformer and one is a FPS, they're both RPG games using the mario property. I do agree, however, that Mario RPG and Paper Mario are not trying to meet the same goal. This doesn't mean that comparing the two is a fruitless endeavor, but what goal each game is trying to meet should be taken into account. Both games are working with the RPG formula but they modify them in different ways. By picking out the differences you can see why some people might prefer one game over the other, or see what modifications to the RPG formula worked better than others.

I personally liked Mario RPG better because it was more engaging. I also enjoyed Paper Mario, but I found myself getting bored much faster. Mario RPG just had so many fun things going on that broke up the battles and the story. Riding in the mine cart, barrel jumping on midas river, hiding behind the curtains in boosters mansion, playing musical tadpoles... these things were great and well placed. Paper mario was just more straight forward, still fun, I just found it less inventive.

[Svevan]

and the stories for the paper mario games are never more than derivative. Super Mario RPG wins on that round, methinks.

[KDR_11k]

I will agree with Ian on at least one point: Paper Mario is like RPG's for people who have never played an RPG or D&D at any point in their lives, and Nintendo doesn't seem to think that we can handle stats any more complicated than Attack and Defense.

Well, can you? I see those numbers and really I have no idea what exactly they mean. Sure, more strength means more damage but how much? How does STR +5 affect my damage, how does DEX +5 affect my hit rates? The Diablo games and Hellgate gave you values for each, showed directly what each value meant (e.g. "every point in CON increases your HP by 2"), in D&D the tables were in the manual but in a jRPG you can only guess. So why not simplify it? Why not remove this whole silliness of "My number is bigger than yours" and just cut it down to values where a player can actually tell what they do? 2 damage -1 defence = 1 damage, anyone can see that and it makes sense. 109 attack vs 87 defense = 212 damage? What?

[NWR_insanolord]

Hmmm tempting, huge fan of M&L and Paper Mario 1/2, but a big part of that was the humour. Mario RPG looks dull as dogshit in that respect. I'll check it out one day, still need to check out M&L2 as well, and SPM.

If you want humor go play Super Paper Mario immediately, it's hilarious, especially some of the early Bowser lines.

and the stories for the paper mario games are never more than derivative. Super Mario RPG wins on that round, methinks.

"Story in games is like story in porn, it's expected to be there but it's not important." - John Romero

[KDR_11k]

Carmack actually. Romero was the guy who went on to make Daikatana, Carmack just kept making engines.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Saying that you can't compare the two doesn't really make sense. I mean it's not like one is a platformer and one is a FPS, they're both RPG games using the mario property.

SMRPG was more oriented toward turn based traditional RPGs in how it was handled, while the Paper Mario series is pretty much a BASIC RPG with more platforming fundamentals. They are two very different games in their approach, and in turn should not be compared. It is like comparing a Pokemon game to Final Fantasy IV or VI, there is little in common with them and they are doing very different things.

My main point was just because games may share similar mechanics does not make them the same but since we want to be picky about it, what about comparing Halo 3 to Metroid Prime 1-3? They both share the same "genre" but they do vastly different things and it is asinine to compare the two, just like it is asinine to compare Paper Mario with SMRPG. Paper Mario turned into a weird platformer/RPG hybrid which was even more striking with the sequel.

[NWR_insanolord]

Carmack actually. Romero was the guy who went on to make Daikatana, Carmack just kept making engines.

Are you sure the quote was from Carmack?

Anyway, I just like that quote, but Shigeru Miyamoto pretty much feels the same way, and I'm dangerously close to forming a religion around that man, so I feel that way too.

[NWR_pap64]

Wow...We sure know how to send a thread to Hell!

Anyways, regarding the SMRPG vs. PM debate...

SMRPG was the FIRST RPG I had ever played. I avoided the genre because it looked boring and complicated. But then I saw SMRPG and me being a Nintendo fanboy that loved everything Mario I had to get it. I even bought a guide in fear that I would get lost in this new genre.

I got it for Christmas and I was HOOKED!

It was the game that sold Bowser. After playing the game I ADORED Bowser. He was my idol, the best character in the whole game.

What I loved so much about it is that after all these years of him being a cardboard villain in which you expect to defeat at the end of the game he finally gains a voice, a personality and a story. In fact, I will be daring enough to say that if it wasn't for Square's storytelling abilities Bowser wouldn't be as popular as he is today with some fans.

The story itself was also fantastic for a Mario game. The insane characters you met, the bosses, the new places, everything reached near perfection. It also features some of the funniest scenes ever seen in a Mario game (Here's a hint: wedding chapel).

The music was also incredible. Yoko Shimomura did a fantastic job of marrying traditional RPG themes with Mario charm. And funny enough she went on to compose the music for another crossover RPG and my all time fave series, Kingdom Hearts.

So unless you couldn't tell, Mario RPG made my Nintendo fandom one of the happiest ever. I couldn't get enough of it. I played it, I finished it, finished it some more, restarted it, played some levels, finished it etc. It never left my SNES.

So imagine the happiness I felt when a sequel was announced for the N64. I DIED! I couldn't wait for it to come out.

Imagine my surprise when I learned that Square had nothing to do with it and the game would feature a flat storybook style...

SMRPG spoiled me, perhaps too much. Once I finally played Paper Mario the experience was forever ruined. Bowser was once again the bad guy, Peach left your party and you had charming but somewhat forgettable sidekicks.

It was a good game, mind you, but SMRPG was so perfect that any Mario RPG that came after it would feel like a step down, to me at least.

Years later I respect the Paper games as being fun RPGs for anyone to enjoy. But SMRPG will always have a place in my heart. Its a very important game that made my childhood years ones that I shall never forget.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't think it's possible for Bowser to be a better character than he was in Super Paper Mario.

[KDR_11k]

As I said, a bigger villain replacing the regular one and the latter becoming a friend of the hero reeks of fan fiction. I actually found it unusual that in Galaxy Bowser was actually depicted as a competent and evil adversary rather than a bumbling fool that gets pushed aside at the first opportunity by the new megavillain of the day. Maybe that just depends on what you played before, after all SMRPG only started the trend of other villains taking Bowser's place...

[Nick DiMola]

Part of everyone's love of SMRPG is the time frame in which they played it. If you played the Paper Mario series before you play SMRPG, I don't think you'll enjoy SMRPG the same way people did who played SMRPG before the other games. I'm sure the same holds for the other people, just vice-versa.

Playing either game sets your mind up for Mario RPGs to play out a certain way, when they don't approach the same goal, the obvious reaction is disappointment. I think pap's story is pretty accurate for me as well and probably for a number of other people.

It's likely that the other side of the debate will likely play SMRPG and not get what's so great about it because their expectations are different.

[NWR_Neal]

Anyways, regarding the SMRPG vs. PM debate...

Well said.
It's not like I hate the Paper Mario games. I look forward to their releases and they're some of my favorite Mario games in the past ten years. Its just SMRPG is perfect to me.

[NWR_Lindy]

When I originally heard about the concept of SMRPG (Squaresoft RPG w/Nintendo characters), I thought it'd be terrible.  But I figured that it was Squaresoft RPG so it was worthy of a look, and it turned out to be totally amazing.

The final battle vs. Smithy is EPIC.

[Nick DiMola]

The final battle vs. Smithy is EPIC.

Battle vs. Culex even MORE epic.

[NWR_Neal]

The final battle vs. Smithy is EPIC.

Battle vs. Culex even MORE epic.

Music in both battles rock my socks off.
Hell, the music in the game is just fantastic in general.

[KDR_11k]

Well, I bought it. It's a good thing a game over just moves you back to the last save point but lets you keep your experience, the first time I reached Croco I was underlevelled. Mallow is still a bit problematic in the damage department, the first few shy guy battles had him do 1 damage per attack until he levelled up... I hope I'll find a weapon for him soon, I don't remember when you get the first one.

[Nick DiMola]

I always ditch Malo as soon as other characters become available. He is really annoying while you have to use him because he is really weak and doesn't ever seem to get strong enough to be worth using.

[Ian Sane]

I always ditch Malo as soon as other characters become available. He is really annoying while you have to use him because he is really weak and doesn't ever seem to get strong enough to be worth using.

He's pretty much a black mage so he's useful for spells.  Though I still didn't use him because of one major flaw in the game design - the FP is shared among the entire party.  So once Peach joined the party I would be wary of using magic in case I needed it for Peach's healing spells.  In most RPGs I can dedicate a specific character for healing while other characters can use their magic for attack spells.

If Square ever makes a sequel I hope they have each character have their own flower points.  Though I've long thought a Zelda RPG might be interesting so maybe instead of continuing the series of Mario RPGs the series becomes Nintendo franchise RPGs.  So the sequel would be The Legend of Zelda RPG.  Though that might create some backlash since Zelda is already sorta an RPG and many fans might protest the change.  Zelda is in many way the anti-RPG since it involves similar gameplay but without stats or levels and everything is in real time.

[KDR_11k]

Shared FP do make you think about whether you should heal or attack instead of just spamming both. Of course the magic has to be worth it then.

I don't think a Zelda RPG would get a good reception considering what happened the last time Zelda had stats... Also the world is already fleshed out, it'd lose the novelty of seeing the world as more than just levels and just become a different combat system in the same setting. Setting-wise Metroid would work better but that might not be a good idea either. A part of all Mario RPGs is that they're humorous and can afford doing crazy stuff, more serious franchises wouldnt work there. Maybe a Kirby RPG but again that would seem silly...

[NWR_Neal]

Maybe a Kirby RPG but again that would seem silly...

So would a Sonic RPG...wait....