Author Topic: Nintendo Switch Lite and Future Revisions  (Read 79790 times)

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 09:39:52 AM »
Don't forget ZombiU, but that was a little side feature.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 10:11:13 AM »
The Switch IR camera is only used in Labo, right? I don't think a handheld only model would need one.
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Offline Discord.RSS

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 11:50:32 AM »
The Switch doesn't need the camera. The only two games I can think of that used it on the Wii U are Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U.

There's a few more besides the already mentioned Nintendo Land, Wii Fit U, and ZombiU.
-Tank! Tank! Tank! let you take a photo of someone and put it on the big enemy.
-Game & Wario also took player pictures in multiplayer.
-Wii Party U same story, used for a pictionary/charades style minigame.
-Sing Party would display your face because karaoke isn't embarrasing enough already.
-Pushmo World could use the camera to read QR codes.
-Not sure, but I think Nano Assault Neo could use it in multiplayer too?
-Again unsure, but if Bumpie's Party: Spin the Bottle doesn't use the camera I'll eat this post.
-Not a game, but Mii Maker used it too. Take a photo and it'll auto-generate a face.
-Google also turns up results for Girls Like Robots, Picto Party, but I haven't tried those.


Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2019, 05:30:15 PM »
But how am I supposed to chat with an old man who will give me advice on how to play ZombiU?
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2019, 09:23:07 PM »
Just gotta hope they upgrade the mobile app.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 03:52:53 AM »
Switch+ should have a microphone and a VoIP app too.

It should have a camera on both sides for AR games.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2019, 06:11:16 AM »
I also imagine a future of three SKUs: Original, "Lite/Slim" coming soon, and eventually a "Switch 2" version later. Eventually the "Original" would go away and be replaced by the "Slim", and then we'd be moving forward with just a lower-powered "Lite" and a bigger, more expensive, more capable "Switch 2".

My thinking is that even though we talk about form factor with a "Lite", what's more important is price. The "Lite" is actually a play to start replacing the 3DS niche, so it needs to hit or get close to $200, and if it happens to be smaller then that's just a bonus. Nintendo already experimented with selling a Dockless Switch in Japan for around $250 so maybe that's not too far away. I guess a Switch "Lite" will not come with a dock (Nintendo could sell that separately) but I wonder where the other $50 cost savings could come from.

I am definitely warming up to a Tegra X2 as probably where Nintendo could go for a Switch "Lite" revision. From my understanding, the Tegra X2 is very similar to a Tegra X1 except at a newer 16nm manufacturing process. It doesn't seem to offer enough performance improvements to be a true generational leap, so it's more about using that for power efficiency than trying to force some sort of half-generational step. Apparently the Tegra X2's "Max-Q" underclocked setting seems able to match (or beat) the Switch's Docked mode at what sounds like the handheld mode's power draw. I really don't see this hardware getting any exclusive software, technically I think it could get 50% more GPU performance than the current Switch docket, but I can't imagine it'd be safe to change the CPU speed on unaware devs (handheld and docked Switch maintains the same CPU speed).

Since the cost might be the most important aspect of a Switch "Lite" then I don't see them springing for a better screen or any new or advanced features. In fact, I think they'll take the power savings from the X2 chipset, and use it not for longer battery life but for a smaller battery. Everything would be funneled not at creating a better experience, but a more accessible and inexpensive one. Hopefully they continue to pack in AC Adapters though...

If this thing could hit the $200 price point at launch or within a year, then I'd see space for Nintendo to design a real Switch "2" generational leap. That I'm not so sure what it'd look like. I assume it'd still be a Switch, possibly even slightly larger than the one we have right now. What I'm not so sure about is what the innards will be: Nvidia's Tegra after the X2 have all been drastically different, more designed for Automated Driving or AI. I imagine that Nintendo will ask Nvidia to design a Tegra X2 successor moving off of A57 cores and onto something like A73 CPU cores at least which I'm guessing could double CPU performance, or even newer A75 or A76 chips. The GPU might be more challenging, after the Tegra X2's Pascal the next Nvidia consumer architecture is Turing (skipping Volta), but those chipsets just came out these last few months. My rule of thumb is that Nintendo wants to use tech that's two years old in order to keep costs down, but that'd mean that Volta GPU tech wouldn't qualify until 2021 and that seems pushing it. However, if the Switch "Lite" can keep the platform affordable at $200, then enthusiasts could be the target for a $349 or even $400 "Switch 2" in 2020 that uses cutting edge tech yet can still play all the Switch 1 games, which could also have "Switch 2 Performance" modes to take advantage of the new tech.

Even with all this improvement, maybe the best we could expect from this 2020/2021 "Switch 2" I'm wondering if the GPU rating on this "Switch 2" could cross the 1 TFLOP level. Obviously the Switch is already getting some Xbox One and PS4 ports even though it's anywhere from 200-400 Nvidia-style GFLOPS versus the 1.1 AMD-style Gflops of the Xbox One, but the next gen Sony and Xbox consoles are rumored to stretch from 4-10 AMD-style TFlops in 2020.

Perhaps a "Switch 2 Lite" would be the next target model, and then finally a "Switch 3" which would start having exclusive games that could no longer run on "Gen 1" Switches (Original/Lites). I wonder if by this point there could be "Gen 1" or "Gen 2" Switches that hit the $150 price point or better.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2019, 11:07:58 PM »
The thing about the first Tegra X1 chip is it is already 4 years old.

As far as games go. Nintendo has done this before. There will be different settings. The games will detect your hardware version and adjust the settings accordingly. Certain games that are already out that have a good level of scalability will have updates that will allow for better graphics settings. You might be able to play Doom docked in 4k on the Switch pro. It'd be 1080p handheld. Though there might be different settings where you choose framerate over resolution. Like for instance you might be able to play Doom at 60fps but at 720p on the handheld if you wanted to. Or 1080p on the handheld at 30fps. Or docked 60 1080p, or docked 4k at 30fps.

I think Switch might be the end of long term hardware. You'll be able to move your games from one Switch to another as you upgrade. Switch will become a longterm platform in the way Steam is.

Apple offers upgrades on a regular yearly basis. That is what Nintendo will start to do, but I think they'll ease us into it. There will be planned obsolescence, but it won't be as abrupt as say the switch from Wii U to Switch.  They'll keep upgrading the Switch operating system for instance, but at some point the older models will only be compatible so far.
Right now they're training the public on how to perceive this. We've been taught to upgrade every 4-5 years, but this will be smoothed out with the Switch line.

Links Awakening also pretty much confirms for us that 3ds is dead. That is the type of game that would normally be created to support Nintendo's handheld, but now that we have a hybrid we will have extremely strong 1st party and 3rd party support.

There will be some games that run like crap on OG Switch and run amazing on Switch pro. Eventually, in 3-4 or so years they'll cut off the original Switch. By then most will have moved on though.

Also all this Xbox talk points to me that once this gets announced that is when the Xbox content will be on Switch.

Though.....maybe the hardware won't be upgraded. It could be lamer, though not entirely lame. Microsoft is pushing to be BIG CLOUD. Switch might just be streaming Xbox One games. Somewhat how they did with Resident Evil 7. This sounds terrible until the technology matures. Maybe the behind the scenes work of Nvidia has brought on some interesting new partnerships and developments and new paradigms of thinking.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 11:14:56 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2019, 12:45:33 AM »
Yes, the Tegra X1 is now 4 years old but it was 2 years old when the Switch launched. Those are the point I'm measuring when trying to account for Nintendo's "withered technology" stance.

And yes, the Switch DOES already have different modes for handheld and docked, and basically clocks the GPU differently depending on which mode it's in. But what I'm worried about is that the CPU itself does not change in this case. You can't just go changing the CPU speed willy nilly, devs might've hardcoded stuff to tightly with expected CPU speeds and so the game would go wacky if that suddenly changed without warning.

Even if Nintendo wanted to take advantage of better CPU performance, I envision a Switch Lite using the same A57 cores, so maybe it'd only have anywhere from a 20 to 35% increase in CPU performance on a Tegra X2 at 16nm. Is that enough for Nintendo to introduce the first CPU-clockspeed-change performance mode? I'm not sure... but if so it'd have to be docked only so as not to threaten the cost savings of a smaller battery. That's only a 20-30% improvement from the Tegra X2 by my guess, is that enough for a "half-generational" step that can be its own rung in the ladder? And then only when actually docked?

I do think that the sooner they can start taking steps like that the better for when they slowly phase in the different gradients of planned obsolescence. However, I'm still trying to work out when I think that'll happen.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2019, 02:59:27 AM »
I couldn't tell you what the difference between different cores are. I stopped programming in assembly on an 8-bit processor 20 years ago. It was an altaire style computer. It took me 2 weeks to solder together.  I was just amazed I didn't mess up assembling it.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2019, 04:04:48 AM »
All I can tell you is that a clam case protected Switch system with no removable controllers would be great for kids and you could easily still provide a way to connect it to a big TV just without a dock and still use the other wireless controllers.  I like the Gameboy brand name, and could go for Gameboy Switch as a name.  Doing a minor upgrade to make sure that the system is running docked mode in handheld mode just seems smart.  I like this idea and could see it being good for parents.

Offline Kairon

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2019, 11:36:36 AM »
I could dig a clamshell. It's a bit of a design challenge. Especially with the question about whether you use the regular joy cons, or just have permanent controls on the unit. Permanent controls could be useful if they reduce the cost of separate batteries and wireless units, and I think lowering cost is paramount in a Lite model.

Consequently I'm not a fan of using that power to run docked mode on Handheld. The screen is too small for most of us to see improvements, and parents care more about price and battery life. I think it's more likely to come with the same handheld performance and a smaller cheaper battery honestly.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2019, 06:30:20 AM »
I could dig a clamshell. It's a bit of a design challenge. Especially with the question about whether you use the regular joy cons, or just have permanent controls on the unit. Permanent controls could be useful if they reduce the cost of separate batteries and wireless units, and I think lowering cost is paramount in a Lite model.

Consequently I'm not a fan of using that power to run docked mode on Handheld. The screen is too small for most of us to see improvements, and parents care more about price and battery life. I think it's more likely to come with the same handheld performance and a smaller cheaper battery honestly.

Kairon I think a smaller truly portable revision is the only revision Nintendo needs to think about, and in that case permanent controllers just make sense.  You could still have the wireless connection to allow for other controllers to be attached.  Then you could also still do a closed Clam Shell Docked Mode that could give it all the features of a normal switch.


Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2019, 09:36:31 AM »
A smaller revision must be able to dock. Switching from docked mode to handheld mode is more important to the system’s identity than 3D was to 3DS. Nintendo actively discouraged younger children from using 3D so 2DS was perfect for the target audience. The entire purpose of a smaller revision would be to get the price down to a point where one Switch per person is a more attainable goal. Making docked mode a monetary choice for consumers makes the most sense for a one Switch per person world anyway. For example, a parent may buy four Lite Switches but only one dock for family game night or something.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2019, 09:08:50 AM »
I was thinking about this mock-up the other day.

1. Why do the top corners slant down? The only thing I could think of were analog triggers except doesn’t have those.

2. There’s no reason why an inclusive unit would have the separated D-pad. Joy-Cons only have that for Switch’s convenient yet least intuitive “sharing the joy” control option.

3. Would people be upset if a smaller revision had more included functionality than the standard Switch? The mock-up above has a camera. GameXplain’s absurd 90-minute analysis of the Super Mario Maker 2 trailer reminded me Switch doesn’t have a microphone. I imagine people would be upset even if the additions are barely used.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2019, 03:18:46 PM »
I was thinking about this mock-up the other day.

1. Why do the top corners slant down? The only thing I could think of were analog triggers except doesn’t have those.

2. There’s no reason why an inclusive unit would have the separated D-pad. Joy-Cons only have that for Switch’s convenient yet least intuitive “sharing the joy” control option.

3. Would people be upset if a smaller revision had more included functionality than the standard Switch? The mock-up above has a camera. GameXplain’s absurd 90-minute analysis of the Super Mario Maker 2 trailer reminded me Switch doesn’t have a microphone. I imagine people would be upset even if the additions are barely used.

All the answers can be answered with one simple answer. It was a 10 minute photoshop.  I added the camera 10 minutes later. I thought about the D-pad thing about 40 minutes after it was uploaded. But people had already seen it by then.

I should also make the 1996 version.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 03:27:37 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2019, 03:59:03 PM »
So what's the screen size we're talking about here with a Switch "Lite/Mini"? Down to a Playstation Vita-esque 5" screen from the Switch's 6.2" screen?

I've never owned a Vita, can anyone speak to their pocketability?
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2019, 06:24:32 PM »
The Vita was something that you could easily carry with you in a bag, but not a pocket.  I don't think pocket-ability is really something to strive for.  Instead, I think travel-ability and ruggedness are the goals.  This is why a clam shell design would be best.  I am thinking a design much like the Wii U tablet but smaller.  A perfect square/rectangle is good for portability but not comfortable to hold. Plus the design allows for more comfortable triggers.  I would go for larger buttons, D-Pad and a recessed true analog sticks.  Then slightly larger buttons.  For the screen, Whatever can fit in the clamshell design.  So 5" would be good, but if you could get it bigger fine.  People are getting very comfortable playing games and watching TV on smaller phone screens so I think size of screen isn't the problem.  Then you test the heck out of the system and make sure it is Original Gameboy/ Original DS kid friendly ruggedness. 

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2019, 08:22:29 PM »
here is a quick mockup I made for Nintendo DS when it was rumored.



Here is one of the mockups for the Revolution (Wii) controller





« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 08:28:27 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2019, 08:50:28 PM »
That DS mockup is BEAUTIFUL!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

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Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2019, 08:52:51 PM »
Actually I always wanted a Gamecube controller with a slightly smaller A Button and 3 Bean buttons surrounding it.  I don't care that the joystick wasn't great for fighting games.  I actually think that with adaption the Gamecube controller could be great for fighters if you never had to push 2 buttons at a time, which honestly...you shouldn't.  But say that you did.  with 3 Bean buttons around the A you could easily push the A Button and one of the Bean buttons.  Design a fighting game with A being an attack modifier or a chain link move. 

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2019, 08:57:12 PM »
I still think Soul Calibur 2 was the best fighting game ever.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2019, 10:27:11 PM »
Soul Caliber 2 was pretty great. 

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2019, 10:29:53 PM »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Nintendo Switch Revision
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2019, 12:05:39 AM »
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