Topic: Off-Topic Wise-Ass Comments About Other NWR Forum Threads And Also Other Stuff

[broodwars]

MVC3 = unbalanced mess. Brawl = balanced! Hundreds of hours of Brawl played and he couldn't even figure out which characters were good. Or he's a flip-flopper that only likes to argue. TJ Spyke. Wrong on fighting games, wrong for America. This message was paid for by Vote Cat Drugs for president. I'm S-U-P-E-R and I approved this message.

To be honest, I probably put in around a hundred hours into Brawl during my early years with the Wii, and I didn't find Metaknight to be a particularly overpowered character either.  There's probably some trick to using him that makes him so that most players probably just don't run into, because he wouldn't be a frequently banned character in tournament play otherwise.  However, I never saw it.  By contrast, I think Marvel vs. Capcom 3's initial character imbalances were pretty immediately obvious even to novice players, so much so that Capcom had to re-balance them for the Ultimate edition.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Yeah, I can see how that's an easy conclusion to get to. It's not easy to play Metaknight super well right off the bat, but Sentinel was dead easy for beginners to play and boy howdy did a lot of people complain.

The thing is, once you learn how everything in the game works, you find the weaknesses that a character like Sentinel has that *aren't* immediately obvious. He can't deal with high pressure lockdown very well, his size makes him extra vulnerable to instant overheads*, etc. Suddenly, Sentinel isn't a giant threat anymore. But that takes time to learn, y'know? Take a bunch of first-time players that can only get a handle on the basics, give them MVC3, Sentinel is going to dominate. Take people that know the game really well, and suddenly Sentinel doesn't dominate anymore. No single character does, actually; here are the results from the biggest vanilla MVC3 tournament.

1. Viscant (Wesker, Haggar, Phoenix)
 2. DMG|PR Balrog (Dante, Wolverine, Tron)
 3. EG|Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
 4. cc.coL|Combofiend (She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Spencer)
 5. UVG|Noel Brown (Wolverine, Wesker, Akuma)
 5. cc.coL|Filipino Champ (Magneto, Sentinel, Phoenix)
 7. Mine (Wesker, Taskmaster, Phoenix)
 7. X-Ray (Dante, Amaterasu, Magneto)
 9. Clockw0rk (Doctor Doom, Amaterasu, Phoenix)
 9. EMP|Sanford Kelly (Storm, Wesker, Akuma)
 9. Richard Nguyen (Wolverine, Dante, Haggar)
 9. Marn (Magneto, Zero, Akuma)
 13. Flocker (Zero, Phoenix, Tron)
 13. HORI|AndyOCR (Storm, Sentinel, Haggar)
 13. EG|fLoE (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
 13. Stone (Zero, Wesker, Dormammu)
 17. TL|Fanatiq (Magneto, Storm, Sentinel)
 17. LB|ChrisGNY (Amaterasu, Ryu, Wesker)
 17. Moose (She-Hulk, Magneto, Tron)
 17. EMP|Evil Rahsaan (Spider-Man, Sentinel, Phoenix)
 17. CCG|Detrimantix (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
 17. Xian (Wesker, Magneto, Akuma)
 17. Y2J (Magneto, Wolverine, Akuma)
 17. Crispy Tacos (Dante, Taskmaster, Felicia)
 25. KillerKai (Zero, Wesker, Taskmaster)
 25. Nefelious (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
 25. Cheech Wizard (Haggar, Taskmaster, Doctor Doom)
 25. EMP|Remix (Magneto, Wolverine, Sentinel)
 25. RyRy (Magneto, Zero, Spider-man/Akuma)
 25. HORI|Tatsu (X-23, Deadpool, Sentinel)
 25. GCYoshi13 (Chris, Spencer, Sentinel)
 25. DacidBro (Dante, Taskmaster, Akuma)

Pretty big contrast to 50-100% Metaknight use at high level Brawl play, eh? None in the top 4, one in the top 8, 9 in the top 32.

*by instant overhead, I mean jumping and being able to hit a crouching character while your character is still on the way up. It basically happens instantly and really only works on big characters like Sentinel.

[Silenced]

Characters are overpowered in Brawl usually pertaining to the skill of the player. Personally, MK isn't that unbalanced to me. He's lightweight and can be knocked pretty easily. Novice players like to pick him up for the same reason as Ike: sword spamming. Idealy, a good MK player can be overpowered at points, but as said before, player skill is involved.
 
Of course, outside of MK, there are obvious character flaws, such as Ganondorf's horrendous transition from being a powerhouse in Melee and then to being the perfect punching bag. There are others aside from that, but that's definitely the one that stands out the most.

[Crimm]

It wasn't me this time. But, who was it??
 
edit: welp looks like I got one too

To be fair, I like the matching numbers

[Silenced]

But I like my numbers even.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Characters are overpowered in Brawl usually pertaining to the skill of the player. Personally, MK isn't that unbalanced to me. He's lightweight and can be knocked pretty easily. Novice players like to pick him up for the same reason as Ike: sword spamming. Idealy, a good MK player can be overpowered at points, but as said before, player skill is involved.
 
Of course, outside of MK, there are obvious character flaws, such as Ganondorf's horrendous transition from being a powerhouse in Melee and then to being the perfect punching bag. There are others aside from that, but that's definitely the one that stands out the most.

I know, right? I see how some people could deny there's a balance problem, because they've only played with a tiny group of other players that never really tried to get better at the game. The smug tournament jerk side of me just wants to make fun of them for pretending to know what they're talking about and I guess I should just push that urge away in the non-funhouse forum areas.

Personally, I was a Samus player since the beginning, and that character just got worse with each iteration for absolutely no reason. Me and the friends I play with like to win, so it was a matter of course that I switched to Metaknight. I'd much rather have a decent Samus (or Bowser!), but that's just not happening because they balanced the game with a dart board. I'm sure fans of Ganon or like half of the rest of the cast feel the same way. After a certain point, suggestions for Brawl got shot down at our game nights because we just weren't having fun with it anymore. This never happened with Melee.

That's the overall point I was making with every post in that Smash thread. Character balance is too big of a job for one man, or even one team. Nintendo has to get the game out there to public playtests and actually listen to some input. I just want a fun game that stays fun.

[Silenced]

Samus had some poor transitioning, and there's also the fact she's made a little too comedic for my taste (I'm mainly talking about her incredibly stupid sprint animation). All of the originals have changed so much. Notably, Luigi is less of a Mario clone and actually kind of a powerhouse when in the hands of a skilled player. However, his recovery is harder to pull off, and it's common for a non-human player to screw it up, something you'll see happen frequently in Melee specifically. Mario's down-B got replaced with the Sunshine hose (a fairly useless attack) and then his aeriel down-A is now what down-B used to be (which sucks since both of those attacks were powerful). Then Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch has been slowed down (it's not by much, but enough to be noticeable), even though it was balanced already with the damage dealt even enough with the time spent charging it. Probably one of the good transitions was Link's recovery, which wasn't worth **** in the first installemt of the series.
 
And I'm not sure if it's just me, but the computers are less agressive. They are challenging and tough, but lack the in-your-face tactics from Melee. In SSBM, if you put up your shield, the opposing CPU would go for a grab. Now they don't necessarily do that and often leave themselves open to attacks.
 
Of course, my least favorite aspect of it all is between Wi-Fi or Stage Builder. Not only is the piece limit ridiculous and unneeded, but the computer players generally play poorly on any stage that's made to have any cool depth or design. If you've played Brawl's Wi-Fi, it deserves no explanation. Very rarely do you find players that aren't teabagging friendlies that probably couldn't grab a Lv.1 Ganon if they tried.
 
In light of this, I haven't played Brawl in quite some time. Or my Wii console in general.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Yeah, I probably haven't hooked up my Wii for like, a year. I'm pretty sure I was playing Melee all the way up to Brawl's release.

Also Brawl's online play is a mess if for nothing else than matches being any distance away being unplayably laggy. Seeing how the Wii U doesn't even have an ethernet port, I don't have high hopes for the next Smash either. Or that the Wii U is actually targeting any sort of hardcore player, really.

[BranDonk Kong]

Ethernet port shouldn't make difference. Most people have routers whose WiFi speeds are 5-10x faster than their internet speed anyway.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Ehh, no. It's not an issue of transfer speed; it's an issue of latency, the thing that murders fighting game playability if it's not curtailed. Playing wirelessly, you're probably gonna add at least 20ms response time and a lot of jitter due to packet loss/signal interference/whatever.

This issue is severely compounded when every single matchup is connected by Wifi.

[Silenced]

I believe Louieturkey to be a professional exterminator.

[Crimm]

...or sociopath.

[oohhboy]

If Dale Gribble has taught me anything, is that they are one and the same.

[Silenced]

They've been really cracking down in recent times.
 
I think ShyGuy will start a rebellion of his own.

[Khushrenada]

Once again, thanks conversation police. Sincerely.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Let's talk about the times we sadistically tortured and killed a mod or admin

[NWR_insanolord]

I wanted to sadistically torture and kill Crimm when he ruined my comeback against Lindemann in NHL 94. It was entirely his fault, and had nothing to do with the fact that Eric Lindros is made out of glass.

[S-U-P-E-R]

TJ logs on, I get smited. I deserved it this time for backstabbing him mafia though

[TJ Spyke]

LOL, yes you did backstab me. I made a comment on it in the dead thread.

[Plugabugz]

I wonder what insanolord meant by YOU PEOPLE.

For the record. I am not a YOU PEOPLE.

[Crimm]

He meant people from the UK. He hates them.

[Pixelated Pixies]

He meant people from the UK. He hates them.

I hate them too, but I'm an Irishman. It comes with the territory.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Smash Bros thread is heating up again and boy is it great dumb



lol

[S-U-P-E-R]

This is the end of humanity and the start of a new world order!
            /

[oohhboy]

Wesker you cad.