Topic: Club Nintendo Rewards: Handheld History Cards

[BlackNMild2k1]

...There are also plenty of people that just aren't happy unless they are complaining about something,

Bingo.

Says the guy who's posted several large posts complaining about something or other....

I have a rather large post all typed up and ready to submit... then I refreshed.
You made my post seem long-winded and unnecessary. Now I have no need to submit it.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@UncleBob / BnM

So... I take it neither of you read the entirety of my previous post?

*sigh* if you're gonna have a conversation at least read it, people.

[BeautifulShy]

You know I find it funny that this forum wants conversation and then when someone brings up valid points people don't want to talk anymore and redicule the poster that made the points...

[NWR_insanolord]

I disagree with your premise that there are a significant number of people here who are more than 50% negative about Nintendo, however the hell you'd measure that. Sure there's Ian, but other than that I don't think there's anyone here who criticizes Nintendo for non-legitimate reasons on a regular basis. There are good reasons to be somewhat negative about Nintendo right now, at least in the short term, and especially on the console side.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Maxi

You're the man, as always.

@Insano

That's fine. No one's here to split unsplittable hairs.  You just give me that list of websites you mentioned earlier and you can wash your hands of this whole thread!

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't have a list, and I don't feel like going to any effort to appease you, even if it would make you go away.

[broodwars]

You know I find it funny that this forum wants conversation and then when someone brings up valid points people don't want to talk anymore and redicule the poster that made the points...

As soon as NinSage decides to make "valid points", I'm sure he'll stop getting ridiculed.  For now, he just sounds like THIS. 

I'm sorry, NinSage, that this website doesn't exist merely to reaffirm what you already believe/tell you what you want to hear as the grand bastion of constantly Pro-Nintendo news and reviews coverage.  We are all Nintendo fans, some old and some new; some critical, and some more laid-back.  And all of us have different tastes in gaming, and quite a few of those tastes have been poorly satiated on Nintendo consoles over the years.  If I can come to tolerate and ignore the nauseating Nintendo fanboys on this site (whose beliefs change according to Nintendo's marketing spin), you can learn to tolerate the critics.

And if you can't accept that a large number of people here can be critical and fans of something, you have no business being on the internet, let alone this website.  Contrary to popular opinion on the internet, being critical of something is not the same as hating it.  And if this website couldn't be critical of Nintendo when it did something the site's writers found questionable, it would have no business existing as Nintendo.com already exists.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Insano

So... got nothin', eh? Talk about wasting your own time.

@broodwars

Not sure how many times I gotta say it but zero tolerance is not what I've asked for. Ever. The problem with all these critiques and criticisms is that they are voiced with ignorance and immaturity.  If someone said, "I've been a fan of Series X for a while but this new installment didn't live up to the previous ones. I really enjoyed the setting and visuals, but I just didn't get the same satisfaction from the depth of story or the new gameplay mechanics" that would be great.  Let's have more and more of that!

Instead, since it's easier, all we tend to get is "this new installment is not what hardcore gamers want.  Does Nintendo know how to make games for them anymore?" from the media.  And from the gamers we get "this sucks!" "this is not like the old game!" or "this is too much like the old game!"

See how that's not informative or constructive?

But yea, let's not work towards bettering our culture, let's just cling, white-knuckled to the same old anger and jaded attitudes that have lead folks like Kotaku and G4 to where they are today!

[NWR_insanolord]

That's a straw man if I've ever seen one if you're talking about this site. If you're talking about the gaming media in general, you may have some semblance of a point, but none of that's true of NWR in any significant way.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Insano

I'm really not talking about NWR, I like NWR very much, especially RFN.  As a whole their site is the best I can find.

Since you're responding again, how about naming even ONE website that you insisted are out there earlier?

[NWR_insanolord]

I'm not aware of any specific sites. It's not something I've ever had a reason to go looking for, as I believe NWR provides the best balance in terms of how they (we) treat Nintendo. I'm fairly certain there are some 100% positive Nintendo circlejerks out there if you go looking for them, though.

[Chocobo_Rider]

At last, the truth.  Wouldn't it have saved us all a bunch of time if you hadn't thrown a baseless red herring in to the conversation?

Btw, I like your avatar.  Been meaning to say so for a while.  Of course, it is not as good as BnM's current avatar.  Gotta tell him that next time he's around.

[NWR_insanolord]

It wasn't a baseless red herring. Like I said, I'm certain those places exist, and my not knowing specific examples of them doesn't change that. I guarantee you there are places on the Internet far more positive about Nintendo than we are.

Complaining about the tendencies of the gaming media in regard to Nintendo here is fairly pointless. It won't change anything, and it only serves to annoy the people who are here, who are largely here specifically because it's not that way. We know it sucks most other places, which is why we don't go there. You're preaching to the converted.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I just want to say that I still have that post I typed up earlier and the real reason I didn't post it was because it was long, scattered and a little off topic. I was in the middle of other stuff while I typed it up and really didn't feel like going back to clean it up and make sure it was all coherent.

I might've posted it now since I have the time, but its on my computer at home... Where I am not at the moment.
UncleBob's post just happen to summarize my last paragraph in a much more direct way, so I didn't bother to hit post.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Insano

So you know they exist without ever seeing one? What faith and powers you must have =P Very deep. ^_^

Also, still was never talking solely about the media.  (People keep trying to shove my philosophy to one extreme or another.)

@BnM

No problem.  Probably wouldn't be much point in posting a longer version of something UncleBob could only believe having not read/ignored my prior post!

[UncleBob]

@UncleBob / BnM

So... I take it neither of you read the entirety of my previous post?

*sigh* if you're gonna have a conversation at least read it, people.

Here's the deal - I'm not really interested in having this conversation with you because you're completely oblivious to the fact that the basic premise of your argument is invalid.

See, this isn't a Pro-Nintendo site.
No where does it claim to be, nor was it intended to be (in so far as I've ever known it).

At BEST, it's a "Nintendo News Site".  In reality, it's more of a "Nintendo News Blog".  Either way, it's not expected or required for those who work on the site to be *any* amount "Pro-Nintendo" - they simply need to be able to provide news and commentary related to Nintendo.

And this is coming from the guy who bought the $5 Expired Nintendo coupon for $30.

If you want to see more pro-Nintendo reporting on this site, feel free to submit an application during the next round of recruitment.

Aside from that, I would *love* to see a greater effort made to separate the actual news from the editorial pieces (blogs, etc.).  But as for your point, again, it is simply based on a faulty premise and not really one I wish to engage you in some kind of discussion about.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@UncleBob

 You've gotten my points confused.  I guess if I say the same things over and over again they will eventually become clear ...

Though I do believe the media IN GENERAL does a poor job of treating Nintendo EQUALLY, my only PRO-Nintendo expectation was among people who would be motivated to visit a Nintendo-centric site (such as this one).  Lest it be misinterpreted for the 805th time, "pro-Nintendo" (your term), as I have been defining it, merely means not hating Nintendo more than you like it (a split of as little as 50/50).

The theory there being, regardless of the content provided, why would you visit a place focused on something you don't like?

I strongly dislike Shia LaBeouf.  Thus, you will not see me on a Shia LaBeouf website b!tching and moaning about every new movie he's cast in.  Make sense?

PS - You have hit a nail on the head in terms of better splits between news and editorials/blogs.  I cannot overstate how right you are in this regard.  This issue goes way beyond gaming of course.  However, few realms other than gaming have put such power in the hands of the audience themselves! So we can have a higher standard if we just demand it!

I used to try to demand it on the sites themselves.  I was banned from Kotaku three times.  Once for asking why an article about a child wearing wiimote sleeves as shoes was "news worthy" and another time for correcting Brian Ashcraft about leaked rumors of a DS successor.

Since then, I simply choose to vote with my wallet web hits, and not visit sites completely devoid of journalistic integrity.  Apparently it's the best I can do.

PPS - since it was not mentioned, I'll just assume you went back and read that bit you missed before.
 

[UncleBob]

PPS - since it was not mentioned, I'll just assume you went back and read that bit you missed before.

I can assure you, I haven't "missed" anything you've posted.  Unlike, apparently, you...

Lest it be misinterpreted for the 805th time, "pro-Nintendo" (your term), as I have been defining it, merely means not hating Nintendo more than you like it (a split of as little as 50/50).

Either way, it's not expected or required for those who work on the site to be *any* amount "Pro-Nintendo" - they simply need to be able to provide news and commentary related to Nintendo.

Again, it's useless to attempt to have this conversation with you.  Your basic premise is deeply flawed, and until you recognize that, it makes no sense to attempt to continue to discuss it with you.  It'd be like attempting to discuss the Pythagorean theorem with someone who refuses to accept that a triangle has three sides.  I'd simply be wasting your time and my time in doing it.

[Chocobo_Rider]

UncleBob-

You're right, it doesn't make any sense because you have so much trouble reading!

I clearly said "people who would be motivated to visit a Nintendo-centric site." Not "people who WRITE FOR a Nintendo-centric site."  So I guess that brings the count up to 806.

Please don't cop an attitude when that's two key concepts you've missed and then tried to snipe me on.  If you wanna talk, let's talk.  But that means you have to read and listen.  Otherwise, yea, there's no point, and you are wasting our time.

[broodwars]

UncleBob-

You're right, it doesn't make any sense because you have so much trouble reading!

I clearly said "people who would be motivated to visit a Nintendo-centric site." Not "people who WRITE FOR a Nintendo-centric site."  So I guess that brings the count up to 806.

Ok, let's rewind a bit and look at your very first post in this thread.  Up until that point, the argument here was between Halbred, the writer of the article, and Majora's_Wrath over whether staff writers were driving away diehard Nintendo loyalists with articles like these.  Several of us (including myself) were chiming in on the relative worthlessness of the cards in the article, but the flow of the conversation was on the tone of the article and the tone of the site in recent years.  You chimed in with the following quote (with my emphasis on the underlined part):

A few suggestions for anyone who finds themselves perpetually pissed off/disappointed in Nintendo: Go play something else! Shut the flap up! or Get the flap out!

And please, no one have the nerve to try and hit me with the "we're just voicing our opinions! censorship! this is just a blog!"  This is a Nintendo site.  If you find that you don't have at least 50% positive thoughts to share about Nintendo? THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR YOU!!

It seems to me that UncleBob and everyone else here has understood you just fine.  You can try and backpedal all you like, but your rather fascist demands are right there yelling at writers and readers alike.  I especially love the bit about mocking the "this is just a blog" excuse, considering that is so obviously aimed at the staff.  You also later insisted that people address yours and Majora's mythical issue of "driving people away" with the critical articles, also a criticism aimed at the staff who write the articles. 

If you've changed your position on this, fine.  Man-up and say so.  But you can stop backpedaling and trying to pretend you were never trying to take your frustrations out on the staff as well.  You've hung yourself with your own words on that.

[broodwars]

Now then, now that that business is out of the way, I'm getting rather tired of you making insane accusations and then demanding everyone else to supply specific data to refute you (especially since you usually have nothing but straw men, conspiracy theories, and conjecture to back up your own).  You seem to think because no one really cares that much and doesn't bother scouring the internet for that data, you actually have a worthy argument.  Well, here's two links:

Nintendojo
Nintendorks

That's two Nintendo-centric web sites other than NWR.  Nintendorks looks like the same barely-updated trash it was when I stopped reading it towards the end of the GameCube years, but there you have another Nintendo-centric website with probably mostly pro-Nintendo coverage.  Nintendojo was a decent site when I stopped reading it (also in the GameCube years), and it looks like it still is now.  I can't say for sure what the tone of its coverage is like since I haven't read it in quite a few years, but it was pretty Pro-Nintendo when I left it and at worst it looks similar to NWR's editorial.

I would also be remiss to leave out the Video Game Overthinker, who is one of the biggest Nintendo fanboys I've ever seen on the internet.  There isn't a Nintendo product or Nintendo stance on anything he doesn't love, and good god is he fond of gushing about it on his shows while deriding everything else.  I have a feeling you'd love him.

[NWR_insanolord]

Aside from that, I would *love* to see a greater effort made to separate the actual news from the editorial pieces (blogs, etc.).  But as for your point, again, it is simply based on a faulty premise and not really one I wish to engage you in some kind of discussion about.

To be fair, if you look at things from the front page instead of Talkback things are clearly marked either news or blog/editorial/feature, which will tell you whether or not there's opinion there.

[Ceric]

Aside from that, I would *love* to see a greater effort made to separate the actual news from the editorial pieces (blogs, etc.).  But as for your point, again, it is simply based on a faulty premise and not really one I wish to engage you in some kind of discussion about.

To be fair, if you look at things from the front page instead of Talkback things are clearly marked either news or blog/editorial/feature, which will tell you whether or not there's opinion there.

I always thought that all the articles in Talkback should have there classification put as part of the article to better mimic the front page a little bit.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@broodwars

You almost had a point there.  And I do apologize because in this case it is my fault for not being 100% crystal clear. (Lord knows you have to be as explicit as a legal document on the internet or else something like this happens.)

Here's what I typed:

And please, no one have the nerve to try and hit me with the "we're just voicing our opinions! censorship! this is just a blog!"  This is a Nintendo site.  If you find that you don't have at least 50% positive thoughts to share about Nintendo? THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR YOU!!

and here's what I meant/should have typed:

And please, no one have the nerve to try and hit me with the "we're just voicing our opinions!" "censorship!" "this is just a blog!"  This is a Nintendo site.  If you find that you don't have at least 50% positive thoughts to share about Nintendo? THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR YOU!!

See the difference? Only the last one refers to the news media and that's only because I've heard that lame excuse before.  If people get their news from you, and if you benefit from people treating you like a source for news? Guess what? You're a news outlet!

Second, I always provide direct evidence.  In the case of anti/pro-Nintendo sites, I quoted Morgan Webb and cited Kotaku's MH3 coverage.  That's what gives me the luxury of calling people's bluffs when I'm quite sure they are just pulling things out of... the blue... as Insano was in that case.

If people are going to talk as if I'm sooooooo off base and their points are sooooo obvious, it shouldn't take much effort at all to disprove them, should it? So why would that be asking too much?

Anyways, I'll check out those websites but, yet again, people are (purposefully?) confusing the many points being discussed for the sake of some arbitrary "victory" in this debate.  In the case of other websites, I would looking for a place in which the entire environment (staff, and more importantly, AUDIENCE) had at least 50% pleasant thoughts about Nintendo.

Also, I suppose it should have been assumed (but what is on the internet, right?) but I would only be interested in a quality site.  If they don't update or don't know how to write, that's not an upgrade, now is it? 

[UncleBob]

I clearly said "people who would be motivated to visit a Nintendo-centric site." Not "people who WRITE FOR a Nintendo-centric site."  So I guess that brings the count up to 806.

Funny, I didn't see that distinction made before:

If you find that you don't have at least 50% positive thoughts to share about Nintendo? THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR YOU!!

and...

A few suggestions for anyone who finds themselves perpetually pissed off/disappointed in Nintendo: Go play something else! Shut the flap up! or Get the flap out!

and...

Someone smart enough to know that a Nintendo website should be for people who like Nintendo more than they hate it?

Seriously, clarify your argument - are you upset that the people who write for the site are too anti-Nintendo or the common people who visit the site are too anti-Nintendo?

To be fair, if you look at things from the front page instead of Talkback things are clearly marked either news or blog/editorial/feature, which will tell you whether or not there's opinion there.

There's a front page?

Seriously, I don't feel that the articles on the front page, or even within themselves, do a very good job separating the News from the Opinion pieces.  There's one little image, on the right of the screen, that says something.  I'd like to see different columns all together.  Like, in a news paper, the Editorial page is completely separate from everything else.

Also, the term "Feature" is used too much.  On one hand, something like "The GameCube 10", which is purely an opinion piece, is labeled "Feature".  Then, the Skylander's Character guide, which is all news, is also labeled "Feature".