Topic: Square Enix's CEO Expects New Wii by 2011

[Ian Sane]

I think Geometry Wars somewhat suffered from that fact that it was released on the Wii a significant time after it was already released on the Xbox 360.  So there may be many Wii owners that like the game a lot but own an Xbox 360 and already bought the game for that console, so they would never buy it for a Wii.

I don't disagree with you but I don't think that's an ideal example.

[D_Average]

I'd say the fact that it's a huge game as opposed to one level make it more than worthwhile. But I can see how some would get that impression. However, still no excuse for the anemic third party sales of Zack n Wikki, Okami, MLB Power Pros and many others with the millions and millions of Wii owners out there.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

So at the end of the day, it sounds like we can blame the lack of quality Wii titles on under achieving PR reps?  So strange that they could be responsible for a generation long dry spell. Maybe they should hire Peyton Manning. His comercials are grrrreat!

Umm, no.  3rd Parties, including any component they're responsible for (which simply comes back to... 3RD PARTIES), are primarily to blame. You need to follow the cycle backwards chronologically to figure out there was a "starting line" for the cycle in the first place, otherwise your logic train will continue to miss the station.

3rd parties are responsible for 1) Greenlighting game projects; 2) dedicating resources to develop the products; and 3) marketing these products to retailers/consumers.  This is a barebones critical path to earning the customers.

Look at Wii's first year on the market (make Holidays 2007 the cutoff point):  Only a handful of 3rd party releases garnered reasonable success despite being `EXPERIMENTAL` first-year titles, such that they've managed to yield sequels that are perceivably improved products (Trauma Center, Red Steel, Rabbids, Kororinpa, REUC, etc.), at the very least, that's a good thing, and shows the 1-2-3 process somehow worked that first time (doesn't say anything about how they're doing the second time...).  However, it should be noted that NONE of these are the Hollywood-blockbuster-level epics (big budget, big scope, big deal; not genre-specific) "people" continue to demand today that the Wii continues to apparently lack.  Those "risks" were handled solely by Nintendo in the form of Mario/Metroid/Zelda that year.  Did 3rd parties step up to the plate in the first year?  2nd?  No, a big fat NO.

The remainder of the landscape was a buffet of fail, a continuous soft-serve ass-cream dispensor of the 1-2-3 process.  1) terrible projects were greenlit; 2) less than stellar care and resources went into games; 3) rushed to retail shelves at full price in hopes of grabbing a quick buck by boxart alone (maybe they assumed some people read IGN 8.1 review score and hoped word of mouth would help, some; but we all know non-casual well-informed internet-reading gamers don't play with other live people, and word of mouth only works when the product delivers something worthy of those mouths).  THUS, THE GAMES BOMBED right out the gates.  [** Carnival Games would be an exception, since it received a price drop and a healthy TV campaign over several months, boosting its attractiveness and succeeding with step #3]  The rest of the games were single missteps, combinations of missteps, or (most often) a complete failure of 1-2-3.  Nintendo isn't responsible for THEIR 1-2-3 process (moneyhats?  laffable, 3rd parties should learn to rely on themselves, this isn't the PS2 era anymore), and saying "our titles can't compete with Nintendo's epic games" is just admitting their 1-2-3 process is a failure.

The first year was a flop, and the 2nd year was a flop, how was our 3rd year supposed to look?  Bright?  Lukewarm?  If some significant projects were supposed to show up, they would've been decided a couple years ago or earlier; they had to have ALREADY been in the making.  So maybe a few interesting non-casual products came up the past 1.5 years, solid products, well received critically.  Did potential customers know about it?  No.  Did it sell?  No -- BAM!  3rd party just messed up on step #3: marketing.  Gotta support that product, gotta let consumers know the product is available, gotta effectively communicate to them the product is doing a job they might want; gotta show they give a damn about it; otherwise these games are sent out to die, as usual.  If all these under-performering titles had healthy, equal marketing leading up to and after their releases, this situation would be much easier to analyze (oh my, that A-word, lol).  But no, these products are sent into battle with no support.  The "Wii" line of games wouldn't have blazed their paths at the pace they did without their MASSIVE TV campaign to spark initial awareness; even the "ill-received" Wii Music managed to find over a million customers by the end of the season... Save for Plastic Music Games, why aren't 3rd parties caring about their Wii games even a fraction of what Nintendo does?

So, 3rd parties decide to make crap games, casual and non-casual, and they don't sell.  No surprise.  But suddenly an OK non-casual 3rd party game comes around (it's not a Rocker Hero III: Legends of Rocking Rock game either), its marketing is non-existant, and it doesn't sell.  NO SURPRISE.  And say that OK game came out more than 2 years after the Wii launched: that means we're looking at the stuff the came the end of 2008 and the first half of 2009.  Chances are, those were the FIRST "serious" "non-casual" efforts by their respective 3rd parties; gamer-games that FINALLY came out -- but the rest of 2009 is a drought.  What happened?  IT'S OBVIOUS!  Those were the only "serious" games they had in their pipelines!  The last batch of "experiments"!  They're not going to have anything else ready in 2009! (and probably WORSE output in 2010 based on the 'success" of the "experiments"!)

So who's to blame for that?  3rd parties.  They determine what gets made, when they're made, and how consumers are informed.  The less Good-Faith-Reasonable-Effort they put into their projects (from Conception to Customer), the more excuses they make once the numbers are tallied.


** I'm not trying to say the whole 3rd party sphere is crap, just that they make most of the mistakes by themselves.  2nd(or more)-generation Wii products like Monster Hunter Tri, Red Steel 2, Tales of Graces, and maybe COD Modern Warfare show some companies have learned, re-thought and improved their approach to the platform.  I also don't mean to be too harsh on very small publishers like Marvelous and Acquire, who barely afforded to make some decent first-try Wii games, who don't have the funds to make a big deal out of their projects (big $$$ marketing) to the extent that pubs like Capcom, EA, or Activision can.  BUT, it's still on them to deliver the goods from Concept to Customer.

[KDR_11k]

GWG tends to overstay its welcome and I can imagine that people got tired of Geometry Wars much earlier.

Okami wasn't a big seller on the PS2 either and you can't tell me there were no gamers who owned that thing. It's just a plain fact that gamers don't buy everything that's high quality, it has to have content they actually care about. I wouldn't buy the world's best pony game and it seems to me that most people would rather shoot at identifiable things. Even Space Invaders had more identifiable bad guys than Geometry Wars.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

^ Yeah, customers can only do so much.  Are they interested in the content?  Can they afford the purchase?  3rd excuse makers have MUCH to do, including providing content that is of any interest.

[Deguello]

Why do people still hold on to strange conspiracy theories 3rd parties have a secret grudge against the Wii?  Its all about the dolla dolla bill ya'll.  Business will get in bed with anyone as long as it brings in the cash.  HD, SD, it doesn't matter.  Whatever sells is what matters.  Just take a look at all the 3rd party games with a Metracritic score of 80 or above that have less than stellar sales.  People aren't buying them.  Therefore, they've stopped making them.  Pretty simple.  The vast majority of Wii owners just aren't into what we are.

I like how you didn't take this to its logical conclusion and see if Wii owners also bought stuff that scored 60 or lower by third parties.  They apparently didn't buy what "the vast majority" of Wii owners are "into," if I get you implication right. And LOL Metacritic used as a metric.  One thing this generation has brought to the forefront is internet groupthink, apparently.

The "conspiracy theory" stuff is merely whittling down possible reasons that third parties still haven't embraced the de facto market leader.  Some of them even planned to make these awful casual games and then use that "easy" money to offset losses on other games.  This isn't even a theory UBISoft said as much in a press release.  And the business angle is retarded, because even WITH their haphazard, awful support, some third parties still manage to do better on the Wii, despite all the sabotage.  The highest selling game Sega's ever made is a Wii game, Mario and Sonic @ Olympics.  Capcom's highest selling game in Japan, despite it being their ONLY real Wii game this generation, outsold everything they've published on other consoles.  I believe that DQX will outsell FFXIII there too.  And of things like genres, SSBB is the best selling fighting game of all time, so that means that the Wii has a lot of fighting game fans that are just being piddled away for nothing.

So what's the deal?  If it makes business sense to support the Wii, and it does, and third parties are struggling, and they are, what is the only explanation left?  What can explain making ridiculous spinoffs nobody wanted, cynical "Wii demographic" games that failed (thus disproving "Wii demographic,") putting out insultingly horrible games nobody would enjoy, and then having the gall to blame the userbase?
What else can explain this?  If it's apparently possible that Wii owners somehow have collective paranoid personality disorder, like Ian suggests, then can't something more plausible and less ludicrous like third parties hating the Wii (which Ian has said in other posts) also be possible?

I think my favorite part of this ridiculous post is the premise that third parties actually tried on the Wii.  They haven't.  If you think they've given the Wii equal resources, equal content, and equal time, then you are an idiot.  And like Ian said in previous anti-Third party rants of his, they expect us to by their substandard efforts, substandard contents, because that's all they'll offer, and when we refuse, they'll use that against us and say we're all casual gamers, Non-gaming grandmas, Nintendo fans, etc.   Just because their awful game failed.

It is simply stunning how anybody can be on their side in this.

[broodwars]

And the business angle is retarded, because even WITH their haphazard, awful support, some third parties still manage to do better on the Wii, despite all the sabotage.  The highest selling game Sega's ever made is a Wii game, Mario and Sonic @ Olympics.  Capcom's highest selling game in Japan, despite it being their ONLY real Wii game this generation, outsold everything they've published on other consoles.  I believe that DQX will outsell FFXIII there too.

Setting the bar rather low, don't you think?  The Japanese are famously-fanatical about the Dragon Quest series, regardless of mediocrity.  I'd be shocked if any Final Fantasy game not named 7 managed to out-sell a numbered DQ game.

[Deguello]

I think that would mean more hardcore RPG-playing type peoples exist on the Wii there, yes?

Or has DQ succumb to the TAINT of casual?

[D_Average]

I think my favorite part of this ridiculous post is the premise that third parties actually tried on the Wii.  They haven't.  If you think they've given the Wii equal resources, equal content, and equal time, then you are an idiot.  And like Ian said in previous anti-Third party rants of his, they expect us to by their substandard efforts, substandard contents, because that's all they'll offer, and when we refuse, they'll use that against us and say we're all casual gamers, Non-gaming grandmas, Nintendo fans, etc.   Just because their awful game failed.

It is simply stunning how anybody can be on their side in this.

You know what.  I actually agree with you!  Come to think of it, you're right!  Nobody has tried!  Had any of the third parties actually applied themselves things would be sooooooooo different.  Take Sega for instance.  Had they actually put time and effort in their Wii games instead of quickly dumping new and old IP's out like Madworld, HOD Overkill, and The Conduit, maybe I would have picked them up.  Even though the reviews were good, I could tell it was just the same old same old.  And if I'm gonna get same the old, I'll spend my time in HD paradise with Killzone 2.  Am I right or am I right!?

If you want to run with the big boys like Mario or Sonic at the Olympics or Carnival Games and push out 3 mil, then you better bring your A game.  Things like updating an old boxing classic with new graphics or replacing excited bikes with excited robots won't cut it these days.  Been there, done that.  Give me new mini games.  I don't have time for 30 hour Okami wagging adventures!

As I've said before Deguello, you should totally work for one of these third parties.  There is so much they can learn from you!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think that would mean more hardcore RPG-playing type peoples exist on the Wii there, yes?

Or has DQ succumb to the TAINT of casual?

Maybe it's always been casual, to the horror of traditional game proponents.  Like a cultural favorite, like the Disney brand or Bugs Bunny or Georgio Lucaski's Star Milk Francise Wars.

[broodwars]

I think that would mean more hardcore RPG-playing type peoples exist on the Wii there, yes?

Or has DQ succumb to the TAINT of casual?

Maybe it's always been casual, to the horror of traditional game proponents.  Like a cultural favorite, like the Disney brand or Bugs Bunny or Georgio Lucaski's Star Milk Francise Wars.

Actually, in Japan that's entirely correct.  I was just listening over the past few days to the TGS episodes of 1up's ListenUp podcast, and their Japanese correspondents pretty much stated as such: in Japan, the "hardcore" play FPS games and the "casuals" play RPGs.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'm loving this game of "guess what the video game market is really like."

I'll take Casual for Casuals for $500, Alex.

[Deguello]

You know what.  I actually agree with you!  Come to think of it, you're right!  Nobody has tried!  Had any of the third parties actually applied themselves things would be sooooooooo different.  Take Sega for instance.  Had they actually put time and effort in their Wii games instead of quickly dumping new and old IP's out like Madworld, HOD Overkill, and The Conduit, maybe I would have picked them up.  Even though the reviews were good, I could tell it was just the same old same old.  And if I'm gonna get same the old, I'll spend my time in HD paradise with Killzone 2.  Am I right or am I right!?

Sarcasm fail.  And House of the Dead is an old IP.  It was old when they put out 2+3 together for $30 and then expected $50 for a new title that basically is the same-old thing.  And it's interesting that you bring Sega up, because, they've sold more Wii games than anything this generation, and some of the "hardcore" failures like the Conduit and MadWorld, have actually outsold some of the games they've put out for the 360 and PS3, like The Club and their ill-fated Golden Axe revamp.  So where does that all fit in?  Should they cancel 360 and Ps3 games?

If you want to run with the big boys like Mario or Sonic at the Olympics or Carnival Games and push out 3 mil, then you better bring your A game.

LOL Every wiseguy keeps pulling Carnival Games out of their face as if it means something.  For a $30 game release in August 2007, it did well in the early days, like most titles usually do in the launch year.  But considering the "sequel" Carnival Games MiniGolf sold 1/6th, I'd say Wii owners are pretty tired of that "series."  Ad they seem to be tired of most mini-game collections these days.  But it's never wise to let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Things like updating an old boxing classic with new graphics or replacing excited bikes with excited robots won't cut it these days.  Been there, done that.  Give me new mini games.  I don't have time for 30 hour Okami wagging adventures!

This is a tired canard, but if you can prove what minigame collections released this year(other than the quality Wii Sports Resort) have outsold Punch-Out or The Conduit, or hell even Mario Kart, then go for it.  And Okami?  A PS2 port from a defunct studio?  This is major equivalent support?  Whatever floats your boat dude.

As I've said before Deguello, you should totally work for one of these third parties.  There is so much they can learn from you!

I'd really appreciate it if you stopped making every reply of yours in my direction some kind of smart-alecky, hipster-emo, ironic personal trolling of me.  It really torpedoes whatever thread you do it in and this was a pretty good discussion until now.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

He spent the post adding nothing to the discussion (simply reiteration of others' points in a prickly package), just his same old same old, so I'm not going to bring attention to it.

oh wait

[D_Average]

I'm done with you Jug.  If you really want to go on wasting your time posting conspiracy theories on the internets then so be it.  Third parties have tried to make money with the "Wii hardcore" and they have failed.  If they could make money in this market, they would.  Their primary goal is profit, profit, profit, as is Nintendo's.  The only reason they stopped is they weren't making money.  Its nothing personal against the Wii.

[Deguello]

Yeah sure.  Call me names and don't address my points.  Whatever.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'm done with you Jug.  If you really want to go on wasting your time posting conspiracy theories on the internets then so be it.  Third parties have tried to make money with the "Wii hardcore" and they have failed.  If they could make money in this market, they would.  Their primary goal is profit, profit, profit, as is Nintendo's.  The only reason they stopped is they weren't making money.  Its nothing personal against the Wii.

3rd parties got what they put into it.  If they could reliably [exploit] this market, they would.  And the facts remain that 1) they largely have not put their full-faith effort into their "gamer" projects; and 2) they continuously misunderstand the so-called "casual" market they try to bait.  Why they keep up this two-pronged approach is questionable, and how you continue to dismiss this is beyond me.

But how do you account for 3rd parties that SUFFERED because of expensive 360/PS3 development?  And when 3rd parties fail on 360 and P33, why do they try again, even if they sunk a shitlaod of money into it?  And call me crazy tell me something i don't know, it seems like there's far less games produced by the major publishers this gen compared to last gen -- they don't need to make as many cuz they're profiting more per game, right?

If shiny [legitimate budget/effort blockbuster visuals] same old same old is the key to success among the companies and its customers, well you must be proud of this industry.

Take your trollerskates elsewhere.  It ruins the forum; people used to not get away with so much.

[D_Average]

The brute fact is this, third party games are selling more on the 2 consoles with far less owners.  On the Wii, you have one 3rd party game in the top ten, on the other two consoles that are getting "killed" by the Wii this gen in sales, well, the figures speak for themselves.  Its no mystery why 3rd parties have some what given up on the Wii and were tempted to leave Sony a while ago.  The pubs are well aware of your conspiracy theories, but at the end of the day and halfway through this console cycle, the number speak for themselves.  The 360 is where they are making all the cash this gen.  Why invest in another Conduit or Zack, Zack and Wiki, or brand new IP for the Wii when you can just hack out another shooter.  If its solid, it will sell.  This is a tangible and easy to target, just requires a lot of hard work and highly skilled execution.  While the titles on the Wii that sell well are hit and miss, more of a mystery, right place at the right time kind of deal.

*3rd parties bolded for effect

The top 10 selling Wii games.

Wii Sports (47.62 million)[67]
Wii Play (22.98 million)[68]
Wii Fit (21.82 million)[67]
Mario Kart Wii (17.39 million)[67]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million)[68]
Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million)[69]
Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)[69]
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million)[69]
Link's Crossbow Training (3.76 million)[68]
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million)[70]


The top selling Xbox 360 games.

Halo 3 (10.17 million)[24]
Gears of War (5 million,[25] may include PC version)
Gears of War 2 (5 million)[26]
Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million approximately: 3.29 million in US,[27] 750,000 in UK,[28] 34,000 in Japan)[29]
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million approximately: 3.04 million in US,[30] 78,000 in Canada,[31] 54,742 in Japan,[32] 600,000 in UK)[33]
Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately: 2.75 million in US,[27] 600,000 in UK)[33]
Forza Motorsport 2 (2.674 million approximately: 2.23 million in US,[19] 31,255 and 100,500 Platinum Collection,[32] 12,600 in Canada,[34] 300,000 in UK)[35]
Fable II (2.6 million)[36]
Assassin's Creed (2.285 million approximately: 1.87 million in US,[30] 60,000 in Canada,[31] 55,041 in Japan,[32] 300,000 in UK)[35]
Halo 3: ODST (2.2 million as of Week 1)[24]
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance (2.08 million in US)[19]

The top selling PS3 games.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (3.94 million)[126]
MotorStorm (3.31 million)[127]
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (3 million shipped)[128]
Grand Theft Auto IV (2.659 million approximately: 1.89 million in US,[27] 169,000 in Japan,[129] 600,000 in UK)[33]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2.6 million)[130][131]
Resistance: Fall of Man (2.5 million)[132]
Resident Evil 5 (1.21 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[133] 472,261 in Japan,[134] 100,000 in UK,[20] 62,040 in France)[135]
Heavenly Sword (1 million)[136]
Killzone 2 (1 million)[137]
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift (1 million)[138]
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (1 million)[139]

[BlackNMild2k1]

Now why don't you show a list of AAA 3rd party games for Wii vs AAA 3rd party games for PS360 and stop wasting everyones screen space with post full of you not getting it.

Where is GoW Wii? GTA IV Wii? RE5 Wii?
CoD4:MW Wii? .... Oh 2 years late
MGS4 Wii? Assassins Creed Wii? Dead Space Wii?

They don't exist.
What do we get instead?

Deweys Adventure, Family Party Adventure, Dogz and Happy Go Lucky Fun Time With The Family 3.
Where are the big budget A team games designed for the Wii? Some say they are on the way..... well it's about time.

"Why invest in another Conduit or Zack, Zack and Wiki, or brand new IP for the Wii when you can just hack out another shooter."

That is the problem. We get an unknown game with relatively little marketing that doesn't sell upto expectations and the Wii gets written off because they were just looking for an excuse. And I don't have #'s infront of me, but I'm sure that Wii is outselling either 360 or PS3 individually in the 3rd party area and I think it was actually very close combined. The problem was that the Wii would get a low budget game that would sell enough to make big profits and then they turn around and use those same profits finance BIG BUDGET HD games that more than likely didin't make their budget back or didn't make enough profit to really make the venture worth it.
Which is why lots of 3rd parties had to shut doors this generation.

All the Developer/IP clout with all the Marketing muscle and Big $$$ Budgets were being focused on PS360 while all the money was being made with low budget, low marketed but high return games on Wii.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." is the saying that 3rd parties didn't think would come into play when they started releasing crappy uninspired sequels to the crappy me-too games that sold by the truck load the first time around to the unsuspecting casuals.

Even when the 3rd parties pretend to try, they still don't give us what we want. We want the same games the other systems are getting, but we want them to play to the strengths of the system. They make RE5, we want RE5, they give us RE:UC & RE:DC. They make Dead Space, we want Dead Space, they give us DS:E.

So once again, if you want to compare 3rd party sales on all systems, then why don't you list all the 3rd party games that are up for sale(& what system they are on) so we know what we are comparing.

[D_Average]

Excuses, excuses.  I want data that backs up your argument that 3rd party sales would definitely thrive on the Wii and 3rd parties are ignoring it out of spite and/or ignorance.  The numbers I posted speak for themselves.  The best selling 3rd party games are not anywhere close to the Wii.

[Deguello]

You screwed up bolding those 3rd party games, sir.

Gears of War is published by Microsoft, as is Heavenly Sword by Sony.  That makes them First party games.  Metal Gear Solid 4 is also published by Konami, making it a third party game.  It's really hard to argue with somebody full of insults, but won't even use Google to make sure what they are saying is true.

And BlacknMild's right, you just don't get it.  You're doing the same thing the third parties are, trying to use the failure of their half-hearted efforts as some sort of equivalency to their actual efforts on other consoles.

I want data that backs up your argument that 3rd party sales would definitely thrive on the Wii and 3rd parties are ignoring it out of spite and/or ignorance.

This is a nice insulated proof requirement that almost can't be met.  I would basically have to hypothesize a game that would "thrive" on the Wii, because they haven't ever really tried.  But, proof does exist, and it comes from Japan.  What's the current #1 third party console game there?  Monster Hunter 3.  Wii game.  Core game.  Might even be the first third party million seller there this generation (Until maybe FFXIII.)  Explain this, please.  How come, when a 3rd party brings over (or is moneyhatted over) a favorite franchise and makes a quality game, they thrive on the Wii, even besting every other third party game on ever other system?  This was Capcom giving a care, and they currently hold the crown for third party games, period.  There's your proof.

The numbers I posted speak for themselves.  The best selling 3rd party games are not anywhere close to the Wii.

No they don't.  Even if they were labeled correctly, you have, again, missed the point.  This is basically the whole point of this entire thread.  Why does Square Enix or any typical third party, for that matter, care about Nintendo's future or the Wii when they never grace those consoles with their best efforts?  This question still really hasn't been answered.  You posting sales numbers doesn't help, because that doesn't say anything.  All you've proven is that where third parties put the most effort is where they' usually get the most sales, and THIS is proven by looking at third party sales vs. Nintendo sales, thus treating Nintendo as if they were a competing third party.  Their games have outsold everyone's.  And they always dedicate all their resources to making Wii games, thus, they get the most sales out of anybody on any platform.  It's the same with the DS, really.  Nintendo dominates there too, but that doesn't mean a third party can't also thrive if they try, as evidenced by Dragon Quest IX.  Now, yeah sure that is a wildly popular series...  But that's kind of the point.  Most third parties don't give the Wii any sort of popular franchise, and if they do it's either hilariously late or a braindead spinoff.  It's always some untested IP that they don't seem to want to push through marketing or, heck even Q&A sometimes.

And I wouldn't put the idea of third parties hating the Wii, or not liking or favoring the Wii in the realm of conspiracy.  Part of the reason that the PS1 achieved victory was because of third parties wanting to break away from Nintendo, some of whom had a deep personal dislike of Yamauchi.  So if that can be a reason to explain market shift, why can't it be a reason to explain why third parties dump crap on the Wii?

To simplify this thread, here are the unanswered question regarding this whole issue:

1.  Why do third parties care about Nintendo, their future consoles, or their future in general when they never make their best stuff for the Wii?
2. Why do most third party games on the Wii fail?  Quality is an issue, sure, but what explains the games that have been focus-tested for the "Wii demographic" failing?
3. Exactly what is the "Wii demographic" and why do most of the games aimed for it fail?
4. If, in general, third parties can't make money on Wii and this is the reason for their abuse of the the platform and its owners, how does that reconcile their inability to make money anywhere this generation, as evidenced by falling profits, deep losses, and hard layoffs?
5.  Why are third parties content with Nintendo making something like 85% of all the profit this generation, while they all have to split the remaining 15%?  This won't bode well for the future for them.

And you cannot be serious in thinking third parties having given the Wii a real effort, right?  Why don't you use Metacritic or Gamerankings or whatever groupthink aggregator you like and compare quality of third party games on the Wii to other consoles.  Lower quality, right?  Thus, lower sales.  Simple.

[NWR_Lindy]

D_Average: Do away with the personal insults and namecalling, or the banhammer will be coming your way.  Thanks.

[Mop it up]

Third-party efforts are one thing which Nintendo World Report staff should discuss in one of those round-tables. It'd be interesting to hear their take on the situation.

[D_Average]

D_Average: Do away with the personal insults and namecalling, or the banhammer will be coming your way.  Thanks.

To be fair, I was only responding to Dug calling me an "idiot" unprovoked. I know he's a former staffer but I can't let that slide if no one else responds.   I have intentionally avoided him for weeks. He reopened this dialogue.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Excuses, excuses.  I want data that backs up your argument that 3rd party sales would definitely thrive on the Wii and 3rd parties are ignoring it out of spite and/or ignorance.  The numbers I posted speak for themselves.  The best selling 3rd party games are not anywhere close to the Wii.

Why don't you start by providing data that actually makes a point. How does showing that Nintendo is a beast when it comes to sales compared to 3d parties on the Wii prove that 3rd party games aren't selling?

Why don't you click back over a VGChartz and pull up a list of Top 10 3rd party games on each console.
Then why don't you take the list of Top 10 3rd party games on PS360 and show me it's equivalent on the Wii.
And by equivalent, I mean same quality game, same genre, same caliber Developer with similar marketing support.

Beyond Guitar Hero, Rock Band & Tiger Woods (which all sold better on the Wii I believe), you aren't gonna have much to compare.

So while you are over at VGCz pulling up these numbers, maybe it will finally dawn on you that 3rd parties are not giving the Wii the same sort of effort and support that they give PS360 and that your arguments are asinine by nature because you just don't seem to get it.

D_Average
Seriously, he's a bad student
Barely scored above an F Average
passed on effort, not merit