Topic: Square Enix's CEO Expects New Wii by 2011

[Peachylala]

Why don't they just stfu and look at the charts for SMB3 VC?

That game has more quality then any HD game.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

3rd parties can't compete with SMB3, so they don't bother trying.

[Peachylala]

So Nintendo = SMB3
3rd Excuse Makers = Clu clu Land?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Alturd Beast Genesis is the bar they've set for themselves.

To jump up and touch the bar with their fingers is worthy of high-fives for them.  They've figured out this whole blue ocean revenue bizniss.

[broodwars]

To jump up and touch the bar with their fingers is worthy of high-fives for them.  They've figured out this whole blue ocean revenue bizniss.

The problem is that although we know the casuals won't buy every piece of garbage on the market, we know they will buy garbage (Wii Play, Wii Music, Carnival Games, the Ubisoft -z games, etc.).  The 3rd parties know that as well, and the cost of making those garbage games is probably so low they figure they can just spin the wheel with every release and the law of averages will dictate somewhere along the line they'll make money.  This is also known as "Ubisoft's Wii Strategy".  It's things like this that make me think sometimes that Nintendo made a mistake putting out a system so cheap to make games on.  It's a double-edged sword.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wii Play being placed in the list of "garbage' is silly at best, most people bought it for the extra controller. The game is a fun, though shallow experience that is well worth the $10. Also Carnival Games is far from being garbage either, it may not be amazing but it is a solid casual game.

[broodwars]

Wii Play being placed in the list of "garbage' is silly at best, most people bought it for the extra controller. The game is a fun, though shallow experience that is well worth the $10. Also Carnival Games is far from being garbage either, it may not be amazing but it is a solid casual game.

You may disagree with my list of games, but do you disagree with my point?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I haven't seen any sales/revenue data supporting the notion they eventually make money.  We DO know the 3rd Party Garbage Lightning doesn't strike twice (sequels to original Garbage titles ended up dead in the water).

Do they, the 3rd parties, all make money?  Or is there a "Shovelware King" that captures most of the shovelware revenue while the rest just bleed?  Is Nintendo the "Shovelware King" and all the 3rd parties just bleed, period?  With the Sports/Fit/Kart brands doing so strongly, I only see an increasing gap where even the shovelware isn't bringing in the cash if a certain majority threshhold of customers automatically flock to Nintendo's publicized, reliable, predictable-quality products.  If the shovelware isn't bringing in the revenuez, what's a 3rd parties remaining option?  Continue the path of higher-budget games, sneak in some DLC, reduce the overall number of projects, reduce products that hit retail, reduce overall number of customers, reduce overall revenuez, then merge/die.

[Ian Sane]

Why do people still hold on to strange conspiracy theories 3rd parties have a secret grudge against the Wii?  Its all about the dolla dolla bill ya'll.  Business will get in bed with anyone as long as it brings in the cash.  HD, SD, it doesn't matter.  Whatever sells is what matters.  Just take a look at all the 3rd party games with a Metracritic score of 80 or above that have less than stellar sales.  People aren't buying them.  Therefore, they've stopped making them.  Pretty simple.  The vast majority of Wii owners just aren't into what we are.

I think the conspiracy theories exist because the reality of the situation is unpleasant.  If third parties are not off their rocker and aren't supporting the Wii because its the super casual console, aimed at non-gamers and with an audience that is not interested in, well, good games, then Nintendo sold out.  A common complaint is that Nintendo's primary focus is non-gamers and they hung their longtime fans out to dry to go after the huge non-gamer pie.

This is obviously not a popular opinion to have and a big part of that would be because that scenario would suck.  No one WANTS that scenario to be in place.  We want Nintendo to continue to focus on us.  We're not non-gamers.  Even if we enjoy titles like Wii Music they are not designed for us and never were.  We want games made for us.  We want Nintendo's attention.

The problem is if we're a small blurb in the Wii userbase, if the third parties are all right in that the Wii userbase is so predominantly full of casuals that their good games are not worth being released on the Wii, then even if Nintendo isn't intentionally losing interest in us things are such that they could forget about us entirely and continue to be successful.  If they're aren't treating us an afterthought now, they likely will in the future.

For them to pay attention we need to be significant.  We're likely not at all but we don't really want to think that, and I'm including myself in saying that my hope for core gamers to be significant to Nintendo makes me overestimate how important we really are.  So we assume that third parties are stupid or crazy or have some grudge against Nintendo because we want that to be the case.  We don't want the Wii to be what third parties regard it as.  We don't want Nintendo to completely ride off into the non-gamer sunset and leave us all behind.

It's better for our peace of mind to come up with complex explanations that don't result in things changing in a way that leaves us out in the cold.

[Mop it up]

Wii Play being placed in the list of "garbage' is silly at best, most people bought it for the extra controller. The game is a fun, though shallow experience that is well worth the $10. Also Carnival Games is far from being garbage either, it may not be amazing but it is a solid casual game.

You may disagree with my list of games, but do you disagree with my point?

Your point relies on the games being garbage, and three of the four aren't. Ubisoft's games didn't sell nearly as well of the other three because they really aren't any good.

[broodwars]

Wii Play being placed in the list of "garbage' is silly at best, most people bought it for the extra controller. The game is a fun, though shallow experience that is well worth the $10. Also Carnival Games is far from being garbage either, it may not be amazing but it is a solid casual game.

You may disagree with my list of games, but do you disagree with my point?

Your point relies on the games being garbage, and three of the four aren't. Ubisoft's games didn't sell nearly as well of the other three because they really aren't any good.

My point relies on a large body of shovelware crap, only 3 of which I specfiically named (and for the record, I don't care if people only bought Wii Play for the remote.  They still bought it).  If you want more, go look at Metacritic or something.  There's certainly been no shortage of it.

[D_Average]

It's better for our peace of mind to come up with complex explanations that don't result in things changing in a way that leaves us out in the cold.

Well said.     And by the way, that line would look great as a Scientology bumper sticker.

[Mop it up]

My point relies on a large body of shovelware crap, only 3 of which I specfiically named (and for the record, I don't care if people only bought Wii Play for the remote.  They still bought it).  If you want more, go look at Metacritic or something.  There's certainly been no shortage of it.

But how many of the games sold well?

[broodwars]

My point relies on a large body of shovelware crap, only 3 of which I specfiically named (and for the record, I don't care if people only bought Wii Play for the remote.  They still bought it).  If you want more, go look at Metacritic or something.  There's certainly been no shortage of it.

But how many of the games sold well?

Dunno.  Still, I can't imagine many people needing to buy...say...Ninjabread Man for that game to earn a profit.  These games don't have to sell well, just enough to overcome their development costs.  That companies keep putting these games out is enough proof for me to see that it's true.  If they weren't making a profit somehow, they wouldn't be putting the games out to begin with.

[Mop it up]

True. And I do agree that the market is flooded with too many games.
What I'm not sure I agree with is if this landslide of games is all complete garbage. Using the three examples you posted, Wii Play is a fun high-score game that's worth $10, Wii Music is great for people who want to create music without putting in effort to learn about it (like me!), and Carnival Games delivers what it promises: carnival games, and the controls actually do work. And I'm not some "gullible non-gamer" either, I knew what these games were and bought them because I wanted them and like them (well, my friend bought Carnival Games but whatever).

As far as Ninjabread Man and all of the others you might be referring to, have you played any of them? Do they appeal to you? If you answered "no" to one or both questions, are you really qualified to say they're all garbage?

So, although I do agree with you that third-parties release too many games and not enough of them are high-quality, I don't agree with you that they're all garbage and people are ignorant when they buy them.

[D_Average]

Geometry Wars is a perfect example.  Its sits on the shelf at 20 dollars.  On the 360, every owner eats it up.  On the wii, its neglected.  Oh, so neglected.  This game is easily in my Game Of the Decade running.  I'm in love with it.  Just ingest some ####, crank the sound, and you'll be in heaven.

[NWR_insanolord]

Geometry Wars wouldn't sell any better on the 360 than it does on the Wii if it were a $20 retail disc.

[Urkel]

The only reason Geometry Wars got so popular with the 360 crowd was because of early adopters desperately trying to justify their purchase. When a vector graphics game gets more attention on a $400 console than anything else at the time, you know it's because the rest of the launch line-up wasn't very compelling.

And I believe it retailed for $40 on Wii. Might have been part of the problem.

[D_Average]

Regardless of the price, it's an addictive hardcore fun to look at shooter. Everyone should play it. At 20 it's a steal.

[Stogi]

How did this thread go so wrong?

I'm hearing two things:

Though the Wii is the market leader, it is a **** console to own.

And

Though the Wii is flooded with **** games, there are alot of fun games to own.

Both of these statements are opinion, not fact, and thus will never change.

/thread

[KDR_11k]

Geometry Wars is a perfect example.  Its sits on the shelf at 20 dollars.  On the 360, every owner eats it up.  On the wii, its neglected.

You're comparing a retail game with a downloadable title and you're basing it on the shelfkeepers you're seeing. The standards for success in those two areas differ completely. Downloadable games are a much smaller pond and Geometry Wars was a mid-sized fish in that pond, in the much bigger retail pond it gets lost.

Anyway, I find it funny how Ninjabread Man keeps getting brought up as an example of Wii shovelware since it's a port of a PS2 game. Sure, **** like that only has to sell like five copies to break even (especially since DDI shoves those games out with the exact same engine and everything, just the four or so levels changed a bit and a different main character) but if Nintendo had made the Wii HD capable do you really thing this shovelware wouldn't get released? This crap doesn't even get close to utilizing the Wii's power so why would it suddenly do that on an HD Wii?

And the reason we keep calling the third parties fucking retards is precisely because they believe the Wii is only bought by braindead casual gamers and any attempts at making games on the system are at best half-assed and stand no chance against the great games any platform offers.

[Peachylala]

The only console Nintendo ever released that was **** was the Virtual Boy.

The 3rd Excuse Makers must be Virtual Boys reincarnated.

[D_Average]

Geo Wars was not half &&8ed. If there really is a huge market for hardcore titles on Wii it would have faired much better. It failed b/c the audience just wasn't there. It's just that simple. No cospiracy theories, no third party plots, just boring ol supply and demand via the invisible hand.

Geometry Wars is just one casuality out of many 80+ Metacritic gems that passed away long ago only to be buried 6 feet under in the bargin bin.  Just as family members must move on after death, so to have third  parties in respect to making new hardcore titles for the Wii. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Metacritic is no replacement for a marketing campaign that can get the attention of the uninformed.  A group of games may have similar high ratings, but more often than not the marketing is NOT equal.  "NO MARKETING" is actually the norm on 3rd party Wii titles, despite the critical attention and GoNintendo coverage provide to the *NICHE* that follows along, and naturally the result is "NO SALES."

I *happened* to be aware of a puzzler called Mercury Meltdown Revolution, a tilt-sensor puzzle game that I eventually bought for $10 close to its release.  Looked way more attractive than a $40 vector shooter.  Way to be competitive, niche vector shooter.

[D_Average]

So at the end of the day, it sounds like we can blame the lack of quality Wii titles on under achieving PR reps?  So strange that they could be responsible for a generation long dry spell. Maybe they should hire Peyton Manning. His comercials are grrrreat!