Topic: Microsoft's Xbox Kinect - Nov 4th 2010

[BlackNMild2k1]

(WIRED)Kinect for Xbox 360: The inside story of Microsoft's secret 'Project Natal'

I haven't read it yet, but I'm sure it's interesting. maybe I'll edit in some quotes later if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

[King of Twitch]

A jungle drumbeat stirs the air at Jefferson and Figueroa on a balmy June Sunday evening in downtown Los Angeles

Microsoft’s Xbox team has packed the hall tonight with VIPs such as Billy Crystal, Michael Cera, Rosario Dawson and Christina Hendricks, but all have been told to wear a white polyester poncho and to enter the auditorium through what appears to be a giant TV into a living-room where actors play family members. As the hour-long show begins, these families are winched up on their sofas to remain high above the audience, cheering as eight-metre projection screens, in total longer than an American football field, flash into life.

A four-metre puppet elephant slowly carries a boy towards a hill of rocks, from which emerges a giant 3D black-and-green Xbox logo that raises him higher. Green lights suddenly shine out from the poncho shoulder pads. “Hi, Alex,” the voice booms. “Welcome home.” The boy is lifted to a 12-metre-diameter rotating steel chamber bearing a screen on which he interacts with an avatar that copies his every movement.

You're going to need of lot of explicatives to get through this article.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You're going to need of lot of explicatives to get through this article.

Guess I better call Stogi & MJ for a little help then

[BlackNMild2k1]

OMG!! :lol:

Kinect gets it's first accessory/peripheral
http://www.atomic-accessories.com/

http://www.atomic-accessories.com/english/item/playon_eng.htm

http://www.atomic-accessories.com/english/item/technicalFeatures/xbox360/XB360A.59.pdf

GAME BOAT™ PLAY ON™ XB360 KINECT ATOMIC       

Compatibile: XBOX360®
Tipologia: Accessory
Codice Prodotto: XB360A.59
Product Barcode: 8022805117730

Game Boat™ is de facto the first accessory for the
peripheral which doesn't need any. The first product in the Play On™ line-up brings the entertainment of Kinect Adventures™ game out of the tv set, directly in your living room! Game it Real™ ! With this real-size replica of Kinect Adventures™'s awesome dinghy .
Size: 150 x 150 cm. Ideal to comfortably play in 2 gamers simultaneously, still without being clumsy in the living room.
Easily inflated in a few minutes through the practical pump (included). Game Boat™ can also be used in the watyr, at the sea or at the pool, by children and adults.

I wonder if this raft can actually float and be used as an actual raft.

I can't wait to see what's next.

[Chozo Ghost]

I can't wait to see what's next.

What's next is a lawsuit when some kid takes it into the swimming pool and drowns.

[Stratos]

Easily inflated in a few minutes through the practical pump (included). Game Boat™ can also be used in the watyr, at the sea or at the pool, by children and adults.

[Spak-Spang]

So basically a very smart business man decided hey we have this raft that is red and looks like a generic river raft...lets sell it as an attachment to a game...then more people will buy it.

[Chozo Ghost]

Easily inflated in a few minutes through the practical pump (included). Game Boat™ can also be used in the watyr, at the sea or at the pool, by children and adults.

Yeah, but what is this "Watyr"? Is it something you have to purchase separately?

Yes, I'm being a smartass here, but that is a pretty unusual typo for water.

[nickmitch]

It's extreme.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Deca Sports Paintballing Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNOPKYFbPc&feature=youtu.be

Doesn't this look like so much fun

[Shorty McNostril]

Deca Sports Paintballing Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNOPKYFbPc&feature=youtu.be

Doesn't this look like so much fun

Oh dear.  The more I see of this, the less I can believe that someone thought this was a good idea.

[Chozo Ghost]

To be completely fair and honest, its possible that the shittiness of this product is entirely the fault of the 3rd party developer and not necessarily Kinect itself. I'm not saying Kinect isn't to blame, all I'm saying is that its a possibility the developer just did a crappy job on this game.

The reason I'm willing to believe it could be the developer's fault is because the Wii got more than its fair share of waggle gimmick Crapware from turd parties over the years, so seeing it happen on other motion control schemes isn't much of a stretch. It doesn't mean a decent FPS couldn't potentially be done on Kinect, but it still remains to be seen.

I think the true test will come when Microsoft creates an official Halo product that is Kinect compatible. That would be a 1st party effort of an established and proven franchise, so that would be the real litmus test as to whether it could be pulled off or not.

[Stratos]

Maybe I'm too much of a gamer but holding up my hand in the shape of a gun to play an FPS just seems like a terrible idea. How do you control running? At best you could play a rail shooter but running and gunning just doesn't sound like it would work the way we want it. Some game types just don't work with certain interfaces.

[Chozo Ghost]

Probably the best way to get something to work in Kinect is with the use of props. Remember the water raft thing earlier in the thread? Well, in an FPS situation it might work better if Kinect utilized some prop gun. I think something like that would be a lot easier for the computer to recognize than someone trying to simulate and fire a gun using only hand gestures. Not to mention that it would probably be easier on the player as well.

[Spak-Spang]

I actually am ok with holding something.  And you could easily map turning the camera to use the other hand...and then speed could be a movement of a leg, or even leaning forward or side to side. 

Or Kinect could make a initial boxed area you were calibrated in be point zero and slight movement step left, right, forward, back could be for movement 

[Ian Sane]

Maybe I'm too much of a gamer but holding up my hand in the shape of a gun to play an FPS just seems like a terrible idea. How do you control running? At best you could play a rail shooter but running and gunning just doesn't sound like it would work the way we want it. Some game types just don't work with certain interfaces.

No, I think that fact that you're a gamer is why you've instantly identified the huge flaws with Kinect.  You've played games, you know what is needed out of the controls and this issue is obvious to you.  Kinect just reaks of an idea that was thought of, likely by non-gamers, without any real thought put into how it would work for games.  Do you think MS would have introduced this if Nintendo had not found success with the Wii first?  It just looks like MS needed some motion control of some sort to compete with the Wii but the idea of how it would practically applied to videogames was never really taken into consideration.  If you don't know games or you just don't think about the details the idea of Kinect sounds like it theoretically would work.  You do this, the game recognizes it.  Good enough, right?
 
How do you move in an FPS?  Well it's the same issue they had with that racing game they showed at E3 where you steer but have no gas or brake.  It sounds like it is barely a game but you can imagine a suit in a boardroom who never actually plays games thinking that turning an imaginary wheel to steer a car sounds fun so they assign someone to do it without thinking of any of the details or whether or not it will actually work.  All that matters is getting something out there to match Nintendo.  It's a rushed copycat idea.  If MS was pioneering motion control they never would have gone with this because they would have had to put more thought into it and it would have revealed itself to be insufficient for videogames.
 
Gamers were probably never involved with Kinect and that's why it's a stupid idea that is going to fail.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Kinect Sells Out at UK Retailers

But what wasn't said is how many units was MS providing for there to be a sellout?
Doesn't mean much if the total unit count was 2-3 per store.
or even 10k for the entire country.

[Shorty McNostril]

This shows why Nintendo and apparently Sony after them both knocked it back.

[Chozo Ghost]

Or Kinect could make a initial boxed area you were calibrated in be point zero and slight movement step left, right, forward, back could be for movement

That would basically transform the player into a giant analog stick. I dunno how well that would work, but it would be interesting to see it be attempted and see how people would react to it.

Of course, some gamers might prefer to just use an analog stick than be used as one themselves...

[Stratos]

Or Kinect could make a initial boxed area you were calibrated in be point zero and slight movement step left, right, forward, back could be for movement

That would basically transform the player into a giant analog stick. I dunno how well that would work, but it would be interesting to see it be attempted and see how people would react to it.

Of course, some gamers might prefer to just use an analog stick than be used as one themselves...

I can sorta picture trying that. Though it may not work like it sounds in my head.

[Spak-Spang]

My idea was the only way I could figure out how to do a FPS without any additional controllers.

Ian you are right.  There are certain things games need.  Even Nintendo understood this releasing the Nintendo DS.  At first they wanted a system with NO buttons and D-Pad...and they realized it was really a poor idea for gaming.  Which is why no matter how good the Ipod touch is...it will always be a second rate gaming machine, because the touch screen is not a good source for more complicated controls and advanced games. 

Microsoft looked at the market and saw casuals playing.  They wanted to capture that market, and actually looked at the same data Nintendo did.  People get confounded by the controller...and want something more simple.  Nintendo delivered with the Wii.  The basic Wii Remote is very simple, but even the Nunchuk is easy to understand.  Microsoft decided a No button approach might be even better...and then they were not blatantly copying Nintendo; which was important to them, because they needed their product to stand out from Nintendo's Wii and the PS Move which Microsoft could predict would be coming.  Three similar motion controlled systems could not have been supported by consumers in the market...and Nintendo already had the lead. 

Unfortunately, everything Microsoft is doing is just poorly designed.  The technology just isn't there, and also it sounds cool and is probably cool to demo, a full rich experience just doesn't sound feasible. Though perhaps that will be figured out in the future...I mean Microsoft probably has another year or 2 with the Xbox 360 to try and make Kinect work.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Half a BILLION $$$ on Kinect Advertising to come!!!
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/microsoft_move_3gVmAyryJuD6px1dV7LeDP?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

Microsoft is gearing up for a massive marketing push to launch Kinect -- a controller-free Wii-killer for the Xbox -- and blow away the competition come Christmas.

Backed by a half-billion-dollar budget, the tech giant is rolling out a major movie-style marketing blitz aimed at driving its motion-sensing device to the top of holiday wish lists.
Like a much anticipated summer blockbuster, Kinect will appear on everything from soda cans to cereal boxes and will span television, magazines and the Internet.

The company began planning the launch 18 months ago with the help of Hollywood producer Steven Spielberg.

"Kinect is the largest, most integrated marketing initiative in Xbox history, bigger than its launch," said Robert Matthews, general manager of global marketing communications for Xbox. "We are going to be spending millions to launch this globally."

Microsoft launched Xbox in July 2000 with a $500 million marketing campaign, but part of that went to subsidies to make the hardware more affordable.

This time around Microsoft has struck a promotional partnership with Burger King. Four million cans of Pepsi and Diet Pepsi will plug Kinect, along with 60 million cereal and snack boxes from Kellogg's.

Meanwhile, some 7,000 retailers will stay open past midnight on Nov. 4 -- the day Kinect goes on sale -- to stimulate demand.

This thing better not bomb because some heads will roll....
but honestly, from what I've seen of Kinect, outside of Dance Central(Kinect's Killer App), if this thing doesn't fail, the devil will have lots of new souls to collect (I've been watching far too much Supernatural).

[King of Twitch]

Great now they'll never break even.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Launch Line-Up for Kinect

Kinect Adventures (Good Science Studio/Microsoft Game Studios) included with every Kinect sensor

Kinectimals (Frontier Developments Ltd./Microsoft Game Studios) $49.99 ERP (US)/$59.99 ERP (US) limited collector's edition. Limited collector's editions of the "Kinectimals" game packaged with a 7" plush toy that unlocks a new animal and toy in the game will be available at select retailers.

Game Party: In Motion (Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment) $39.99 ERP (US)

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 1 The Videogame (Electronic Arts/EA Bright Light), 49.99 ERP (US)

Your Shape: Fitness Evolved (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)

Dance Central (MTV Games/Harmonix), $49.99 ERP (US)

The Biggest Loser Ultimate Workout (THQ), $49.99 ERP (US)

DanceMasters (Konami), $49.99 ERP (US)

EA Sports Active 2 (EA SPORTS), $99.95 ERP (US) (Includes Heart Rate Monitor)

Zumba Fitness (Majesco), $49.99 ERP (US)

Kinect Sports (Rare/Microsoft Game Studios) $49.99 ERP (US)

MotionSports (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)

Deca Sports Freedom (Hudson Entertainment)

Kinect Joy Ride (Big Park/Microsoft Game Studios), $49.99 ERP (US)

Adrenalin Misfits (Konami), $49.99 ERP (US)

Fighters Uncaged (Ubisoft), $49.99 ERP (US)

Sonic Free Riders ($49.95)

Lots of Dancing & Sport/Workout games.
MS better talk to Wu Tang Financial and learn to Diversify

[Ian Sane]

Over at Penny Arcade, Tycho's news post suggests an interesting idea about Kinect.  He notes that the Wii is largely associated with third party shovelware but at launch it had titles like Zelda that would appeal to the core gamers.  The Kinect launch has nothing of the sort.  But the Wii's whole thing was the controller so it had to appeal to a wide audience, core gamer and non-gamer alike.  Kinect doesn't have to.  The Xbox 360 is already successful with core gamers and has games that appeal to that group and will continue to have such games.  He questions if it is a bad thing if Kinect is strictly a casual non-gamer thing.
 
When you think about it there is somewhat of a seperation on the Wii.  I see motion control as an annoying nuisance.  I already mentally seperate the core from the casual and usually the usage of the controller is a deciding factor.  If the Wii was like the other consoles in that the motion controller was a seperate thing I think most of the games I would consider as designed for the more traditional gaming audience would not use the remote.  The games that REALLY need it are usually stuff like Wii Sports.  Zelda or Mario Galaxy do not need it.  Metroid Prime 3 is a rare example of a core game that would.
 
So on the Xbox 360 the seperation is just very literal.  Kinect is for casuals, the "normal" Xbox 360 is not.  That's all fine and good in theory expect that I don't see casuals buying Kinect.  The focus on casual gaming from both Sony and MS is nuts because the Wii already has that market down cold and is MUCH cheaper.  I don't see why anyone is going to buy Kinect when Nintendo almost certainly makes BETTER casual titles and with the Wii I only have to buy ONE product for LESS MONEY and the whole thing works.