Topic: Microsoft's Xbox Kinect - Nov 4th 2010

[KDR_11k]

Don't worry, half of that will be cut for cost reasons if Natal finally gets released.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But that is the core functionality of the tech. if they get rid of that(the IR sensor), then all you have is an eyetoy.

[Spak-Spang]

Actually, it sounds like it would be really hard to program all this, unless the programming software and middleware is just amazing.

Oh well...I will be excited to see what comes of this.  The reality is that Microsoft might just delay and delay this until it becomes their next system and is built in to every unit.  That would be the smartest choice Microsoft can make.

[Stogi]

Microsoft put itself in a rut.

If they release it now, they will segment their base and the steep cost of the product will surely keep non-gamers away.

If they release later, they will look like idiots (smart idiots albeit), but even more dastardly, is that the Wii 2 will provided even stiffer competition. I expect the Wii 2 to NOT be a rehash of hardware and provide HD and a competent online system. It'll also have an even more precise wiimote and nunchuck and possibly some other tech that's being developed as we speak.

[KDR_11k]

The Wii 2 will be something we cannot even imagine yet. If MS comes out with motion tech by then they'll be another step behind.

[EasyCure]

The Wii 2 will be something we cannot even imagine yet. If MS comes out with motion tech by then they'll be another step behind.

Nintendo's strategy all along? Come outta the gates with "underpowered" hardware but fancy tech motion control input method, dominate then lure the competition into non-competing the next race around by making them play catch up with their own fancy tech, by the time the next race comes around and Xbox/PS3 are trying to match the wii's feature, Nintendo sweeps EVERYTHING from under their feet.

Genious..?

[BlackNMild2k1]

it only works if MS & Sony shy away from multiplying processing power on a tower Ram to focus on incorporating their already revealed motion controls to rival Wii's already proven approach.

[Smash_Brother]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/

After our meeting, we actually had a chance to speak with another source who was able to show us the software guts behind the Natal, so that we could understand the method by which tracking is done. The box uses two sensors for input: a video camera, and an infrared camera (that light you see in the press photo is either power, or some part of the IR setup). The infrared data is used to gauge depth and the video camera movement, but it's the software Microsoft has developed which is really doing the magic. We were shown an example of the raw output of the system, which melds the two sources and then breaks them down into a wireframe of objects, a heatmap (for depth), and a point-map (which is akin to one of those hand imprint needle toys). The software merges all of this together to create a picture of movement in the room, allowing for some pretty crazy detail of what is going on.

http://kotaku.com/5279531/microsoft-project-natal-can-support-multiple-players-see-fingers

I thought Natal had to be used in bright light.

Wrong? The demos I played of Natal were set up in dimly-lit hotel rooms, except for Peter Molyneux's Milo demo which was set in a bright room. Tsunoda said lighting was a non-issue for Natal. Maybe so, maybe not. But if it works in a dim room, that's not bad.

It still sounds like sunlight will cripple the thing...

[Ian Sane]

I am kinda shocked that everyone at the Nintendo website is talking like this honestly.  I remember when Nintendo first unveiled the Wiimote and people were shocked and upset about the new controller.  If I remember correctly the very first introduction didn't even show the Wii Nunchuk so we had no idea how it would play traditional games and we were dumb founded how games would be played on the system.

There was even hype from developers that didn't totally understand the hardware jumping on the bandwagon.  In the end, Nintendo proved to have more up their sleeve with the technology and the Wii remote and its accessories worked beautifully.  All we know right now is the Natal tech demo stuff and what has been shown.  There may be a type of controller with the system in the end, or the technology may really work where you don't need a controller at all.

The point is any innovation in gaming is a good thing, and we should celebrate it.

I personally disagree that any innovation in gaming is a good thing.  It has to improve gaming in some way, not just be innovative.  There all sorts of creative things that could be done but would make playing a game a huge pain in the ass.

I don't have any optimistism for Natal largely because of who is in charge.  Nintendo has a considerably better track record for introducing new ideas.  Microsoft does not have that reputation.  This, to me, looks like "we need some way to combat the Wii remote".  That's not a plan, it's a kneejerk reaction.  Microsoft is doing this because they're scrambling, not because they have some brilliant vision.

And I'm not even very impressed with the remote at all.  Motion control, to me, seems like a silly novelty that sounded cool in science fiction but is frustratingly limited and inaccurate in real life.  Nintendo, the masters of innovation, and the company that actually made this motion control stuff a HUGE success, can't even make a tennis game use this tech without preventing the player from moving the character.  Either the proper technology isn't here yet or the whole damn concept is hopelessly restrictive.

So MS is taking an idea that I already think is lame and making it MORE restrictive.  I cannot see any improvement on the concept other than the bullet point "no controller".  Can't stand it when the remote misinterprets your gesture?  How accurate do you think THIS is going to be?  I know this won't apply to everyone but, for me, I couldn't even fake interest in this.  Natal will SUCK.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo, the masters of innovation, and the company that actually made this motion control stuff a HUGE success, can't even make a tennis game use this tech without preventing the player from moving the character.  Either the proper technology isn't here yet or the whole damn concept is hopelessly restrictive.

I think maybe you should play some of the games made for Wii before you start criticizing what has and what hasn't been done. Grand Slam Tennis and Virtual tennis 2009 both allow you to control your character while using M+ motion controls and it works fine once you get used to it. The reason Nintendo hasn't done it yet is because the only Tennis game they have made this generation is WiiSports and that was meant as an entry title introducing you to the motion controls. The only other Nintendo Tennis game is a new play control Mario Power Tennis or whatever it was called. Old game with waggle support.

[Stogi]

Dude, Ian maybe has three games for wii, I swear. Mario Galaxy, Wiisports and Wiiplay.

[DAaaMan64]

More importantly it's Microsoft this entire generation we're talking about, they have a tendency to overpromise and underdeliver just to kill off a competing product with hype about what "will be", once the job is done the advertised product is either frozen eternally or stripped down massively.

Fixed for real truth. Nintendo, Sony, MS the lot. I remember the dreams we had when Wiinus game out.

[EasyCure]

The wiinus has more than satisfied me.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Kojima Says, "Does my money hat match my money suit?"

Microsoft organized a panel with some of the biggest japanese game creators to talk about Project Natal. Metal Gear Solid mastermind Hideo Kojima gave high praise to the technology saying that " we are going to see the same sort of revolution of going from 2D games to 3D games with the move to Natal ".


Here's what Kojima had to say about Project Natal :

" Kojima was absolutely blown away when he saw it. Takahashi claimed that he thought Kojima almost fainted when he saw it "

" Kojima said that he really wanted to be here because he believe in the possibilities of the controller -- he said it has the potential to really change the lifestyle of gamers. he said he wants to use natal in his games, but he's really more excited about seeing how Natal changes the lifestyle habits of gamers "

" Kojima said that Natal is going to raise the bar for game development "

" Kojima said we are going to see the same sort of revolution of going from 2D games to 3D games with the move to Natal "

" Kojima is now talking about how this is going to be a transitional stage -- for example, some gamers might not be able to accept trying to control a driving game with a pretend steering wheel in their hands "

" Kojima said that he wants to do stuff that incorporates all aspects of the Natal -- the camera, the voice, the motion control. He especially loves the face recognition possibilities. he said he would like to make a game kind of like AI "

" Kojima says he would love to use Natal to come out with a completely new game that no one has played before "

[EasyCure]

EasyCure says "So now we can be actors in his movies? Or will we still have to watch 90% of them?"

[Deguello]

Isn't it great how Sony and Microsoft get the benefit of the doubt that was denied to Nintendo when they basically created motion controls out of thin air in late 2005?

I'm gearing up for some pretty rank hypocrisy in the next few years.

[EasyCure]

Isn't it great how Sony and Microsoft get the benefit of the doubt that was denied to Nintendo when they basically created motion controls out of thin air in late 2005?

I'm gearing up for some pretty rank hypocrisy in the next few years.

This is exactly why Nintendo will keep pulling out charts, graphs and retrospectives in their media briefings. "way back in 200X we were toying with ____ until we finally created the Wii and its revolutionary Wii Remote, which we released in 2006. It was obviously a step in the right direction because our competitors followed suit..."

sigh

[ThePerm]

Dude, Ian maybe has three games for wii, I swear. Mario Galaxy, Wiisports and Wiiplay.

That sums me up too, but im fairly optomistic when it comes to even waggle, after playing TP it was a joke to play the Gamecube version and I'm left handed. My biggest problem, batteries! I bought rechargable batteries but my brother and his wife nabbed them for their own uses and moved to Korea. I never saw the batteries again. $20 down the drain. I bought a Wiimote charger, but it was a piece of **** and I had to take it back for a refund. Thats the main reason I don't jump in and play much. I have to still beat Metroid Prime 3 I'm hoping Wii2 will have a decent method of recharging, and have comparable graphics. In the short term creating gc2.0 was a genius idea for profit, but long term it will become a detriment. Every System should be thought of as something new, and Nintendo realises that. There will be things Wii2 does that nobody else has thought up or things you wouldn't expect them to add. However, one might say im missing out on all the greatest games there are right now....but i think by the end of the generation I can binge on all the greats at bargain prices.

[SixthAngel]

I am extremely skeptical about this and still think it is either not going to come out or sent to die.  Everybody talks but you don't see anything and I expect that to continue.  At least the Sony wand is actually coming out sometime soon and they are demoing.  Natal is still a dream that will probably not come out for another year at the least.  I see it as a hype method to slow Sony down yet again.
 
If they actually put weight behind it my question is can Natal allow more than one person to play at a time?  They show the pitstop "demo" but aside from that I haven't heard a thing.  I can't imagine it not constantly screwing up with two or more people using it and the camera trying to pick up anything beyond the most basic movements.
I don't even know if this could play Wii sports tennis because it would have to pick up the rotation of your hand.  Those are small motions and don't effect depth.  I would sometimes have trouble picking up the rotation when I'm watching someone.

If there is one thing people at NWR seem to know its that the game press and developers can't be trusted when they say they will support something or when they talk something up.
Unless there is actual footage and gameplay shown it is hot air.

[Deguello]

If there is one thing people at NWR seem to know its that the game press and developers can't be trusted when they say they say they will support something or when they talk something up.
Unless there is actual footage and gameplay shown it is hot air.

Hideo Kojima also went nuts for the Wiimote at first, saying stuff like "you did it!  You've done it!"  Or something of that ilk.  Which was probably just a signal to Sony that his payoff needed to be bigger because, other than Solid Snake being in SSBB as free advertising for MGS4, Kojima hasn't done squat with Wii and it's almost like he's forgotten it existed.

And you are correct, the list is long of developers who thought the GC had good hardware and the Wii had "tremendous possibilities" that resulted in zero games.

[NWR_pap64]

Dequello just mentioned something I was going to explain a bit.

Yes, MS may be bragging about its third party support for Natal, but let's look back at the Wii's launch. Nintendo also bragged about its third party support and how third parties were delighted by the Wii Remote.

While support is better now, back then what we had were ports of old PS2/GC games, me too Wii Sports clone and lots of mini game collections.

Just because these third parties are going gaga over Natal it doesn't mean that they will release something significant or that they will figure out the technology right away. Developers are STILL trying to figure out the Wii, which is more versatile and flexible than the Natal. Who's to say that the same won't happen with Natal? In fact Natal will be MORE demanding in controls, especially if MS expects developers to create non controller options.

[D_Average]

Well, one thing we can bank on showing up, third party rabbits.

[BlackNMild2k1]

First real Natal compatible game confirmed?

In an interview with Joystiq, Microsoft's Phil Spencer said he wouldn't be surprised to see Project Natal integration in Fable 3. Another person who wouldn't be surprised? The guy in charge of Fable 3. Peter Molyneux told Game Kings that he was "leaving the most exciting gameplay stuff for later." He then added, "I am going to say it's going to use a controller, but I've never said it's not going to use Natal."

"And obviously what would probably happen if I started talking about this is you would see a little red dot appear moving on my forehead," Molyneux continued. "And then as I would start to speak the words then there would be a shotgun fire, and I would be assassinated. Quite clearly, it is that sensitive." But not so sensitive that he can't quite nearly confirm it in the next breath.

"Do you really think, knowing me, as maybe you do over the years, I wouldn't want to use something like Natal? I mean, that's just mad, man." Let's just lay it out here: The guy responsible for basically the only known Natal project is going to put some Natal segments in Fable 3. We all know this. It's going to happen. Try to look surprised when it's announced at whichever trade show next year.

Who's ever heard of a shotgun with a laser sight?

[vudu]

Who's ever heard of a shotgun with a laser sight?

Leon S. Kennedy

[BlackNMild2k1]

true, but who would plan an assassination with one?