Author Topic: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....  (Read 2526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

  • Animal Crossing Hustler
  • Score: 409
    • View Profile
Remember how everyone always feels the need to point out that Super Mario Bros. 2 was actually a conversion from Doki Doki Panic and therefore wasn't really a Mario game.


Well it looks like Doki Doki Panic actually started out as a Mario game and then became Doki Doki Panic which then became Super Mario Bros. 2 for the U.S. which then became Super Mario USA for Japan.


http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/the-secret-history-of-super-mario-bros-2.ars
Quote
The prototype, worked up by SRD, a company that programmed many of Nintendo’s early games, was intended to show how a Mario-style game might work if the players climbed up platforms vertically instead of walking horizontally, said Tanabe.

“The idea was that you would have people vertically ascending, and you would have items and blocks that you could pile up to go higher, or you could grab your friend that you were playing with and throw them to try and continue to ascend,” Tanabe said. Unfortunately, “the vertical-scrolling gimmick wasn’t enough to get us interesting gameplay.”

The rapid-prototype development process on display here informs Nintendo’s design philosophy to this day. The company doesn’t begin development with characters and worlds: It starts by making sure that game boasts a fun and compelling game mechanic. If it’s not perfect, Nintendo has no qualms about throwing it out.

Soon after he was hired by Nintendo in the mid-’80s, Tanabe sat down with his boss, Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto, to look at this prototype together.

“The game was mocked up (so that) when the player climbed about two-thirds of the way up the screen, it would scroll so that the player was pushed further down,” Tanabe said.

The game-design team led by Miyamoto was tasked with coming up with a game that used this trick of programming. But Tanabe and Miyamoto weren’t too hot on the concept.

While the prototype featured two players jumping, stacking up blocks to climb higher, and throwing each other around, the technical limitations of the primitive NES made it difficult to build a polished game out of this complex action. And playing it with just one person wasn’t very fun.

“Miyamoto looked at it and said, ‘Maybe we need to change this up,’” Tanabe recalled. He suggested that Tanabe add in traditional side-scrolling gameplay and “make something a little bit more Mario-like.”

“As long as it’s fun, anything goes,” Tanabe remembers Miyamoto saying.

You start with one thing, it leads to another, licensing gets involved, it gets really popular, so you go to port it elsewhere, licensing doesn't really work there so you bring it back to where it started, and wahlah Super Mario 2 is a Mario game again.

Quote
Although the initial concept for the game had been scrapped, the development of that original two-player cooperative prototype inspired all the innovative gameplay of Super Mario Bros. 2, Tanabe said.

“Picking up blocks was the same thing as pulling out vegetables from the ground,” he said. By the same token, picking up the other player and throwing him turned into picking up enemy characters.

Doki Doki Panic was actually part of a deal with the Fuji corporation, in which Nintendo would produce a tie-in videogame for a media-technology expo called Yume Kōjō, or “Dream Factory.” The mascot characters invented for this expo were the stars of the game.

“I remember being pulled over to Fuji Television one day, being handed a sheet with game characters on it and being told, ‘I want you to make a game with this,’” Tanabe said.

Released in 1987, Doki Doki Panic was one of the biggest hits on Nintendo’s Disk System, a floppy drive that worked with the Japanese version of the NES. Since this hardware was not released in America, many Disk System games were ported to standard game cartridges for US release.

“Because we had to make this change, we had the opportunity to change other things” about the game, said Tanabe. “We knew these Fuji TV characters wouldn’t be popular in America, but what would be attractive in America would be the Mario characters.”

Tanabe’s team made many improvements to the original for its American debut, adding more enemy characters, throwing in some visual nods to the Mario games and greatly enhancing the animation and sound effects.

Because one of Mario’s most notable features at the time was his ability to grow and shrink when he ate magic mushrooms, this was added to the game. But the implementation was not without its issues.

“When the characters got shrunk down to a smaller version of themselves, it was easy to sneak through parts of the level that you weren’t supposed to go through, so we made their heads bigger so they would get caught on those things,” Tanabe said.

The enhancements to Super Mario Bros. 2 were so great that the game was eventually brought back to Japan, retitled Super Mario USA.

So the next time someone decides to argue with you over whether Super Mario Bros 2 was actually a Mario game or not, you now where you can link them to so they can read it for themselves.

Offline MegaByte

  • NWR Staff... Can't win trivia
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 31337
    • View Profile
    • Konfiskated Teknologies Network
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 02:15:22 PM »
He said Mario-style and Mario-like. He never said it started out as an actual Mario game.
Aaron Kaluszka
Contributing Editor, Nintendo World Report

Offline BlackNMild2k1

  • Animal Crossing Hustler
  • Score: 409
    • View Profile
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 02:35:48 PM »
I interpret it as he was hoping to make the next Mario game. Miyamoto suggested side and vertical scrolling so it would be more Mario like. They then took a license and made new assets since alot of the concepts were Mario inspired and just made a different game with it.

There for the concept of the game started out with Mario but evolved into something else when they decided to make a licensed game using those ideas instead.

But then again, I bet alot of their concepts start out as Mario proto-types before being being integrated into other projects where the ideas may fit better.

Offline Fatty The Hutt

  • Zut alors!
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 02:42:40 PM »
...the more you know
 
very cool!
Oui, Mon Gars!

Offline MegaByte

  • NWR Staff... Can't win trivia
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 31337
    • View Profile
    • Konfiskated Teknologies Network
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 02:42:52 PM »
This is the key quote:
Quote
The rapid-prototype development process on display here informs Nintendo’s design philosophy to this day. The company doesn’t begin development with characters and worlds: It starts by making sure that game boasts a fun and compelling game mechanic. If it’s not perfect, Nintendo has no qualms about throwing it out.
Sure, they might use Mario models like they did when developing Wii Sports, or it could even be the opposite, like Super Smash Bros. starting as polygon fighters. Also, remember Miyamoto had intended to put Mario in basically everything back then, but it was clear that Doki Doki Panic had heavy Mario influences, even without this interview. On the other hand, SMB was a genre-maker, and you had much of the same team working on it, so that's almost a given.
Aaron Kaluszka
Contributing Editor, Nintendo World Report

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 06:12:12 PM »
Quote
  He said Mario-style and Mario-like. He never said it started out as an actual Mario game.

Yeah, if you're going to use "Mario-style" as the necessary requirements then Alex Kidd and Wonder Boy started off as Mario games too since it's pretty damn clear the devs had SMB on the brain when they came up with them.
 
What I was expecting to read was that the game was planned as a Mario title and the Fuji TV contract caused them to swap in the Fuji characters at the last minute and then later it was turned back into Mario.  But this write-up is pretty much the same tale of SMB2 I've heard a million times.
 
The thing is SMB2 is such a good game I don't have a problem with including it as a "real" Mario game.  It has a similar play style and it is vastly superior to the real SMB2.  Hell, Ms. Pac-Man isn't technically a "real" Pac-Man game yet who wouldn't include it as one today?  I mostly use the "not a real entry in the series" excuse to exclude games I dislike, not ones I do like.

Offline rad.i.kal

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
    • Scribble People
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2011, 09:00:23 PM »
very cool! Just looking at wiki and other places, now i am super interested haha


thanks for the info

Offline pandaradox

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Sooooo Super Mario Bros 2 was always a Mario Game all along.....
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2011, 10:27:29 AM »
I think the defining moment is the idea that they scrapped the original idea of making it a completely vertical scrolling game.  It wasn't enough.  Taking those mechanics and adding mario flare and side scrolling as well as altering the pick up mechanic does warrant uniqueness.  Doki was a launch pad.  It's when we try to deny that it had such a huge influence that people get up in arms.  Games take working aspects and use them in a lot of situations.  This just happened to be one of the firsts with such a popular franchise so it stood out.  The point is that Doki wasn't enough to be a Mario game on its own merits.