Author Topic: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?  (Read 11580 times)

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« on: March 24, 2009, 04:54:10 PM »
Incase you haven't been paying attention, the Wii is cleaning up shop in Hardware, software & third party sales (multi-platform atleast).
Money is to be made on Wii and most 3rd parties are a little late to come to that realization, but lots of them are trying to rectify that situation. There are alot of 3rd parties out there that have made alot of good games over the years and quite a few of them may be just perfect for the Wii.

So what 3rd Party games do you think should make their way over to the Wii?

I'll start off by suggesting that Namco's Point Blank series need to find a definitive console version on the Wii in the form of an updated sequel or WiiWare port.
As many gallery shooters and mini game collections that are going around, Point blank was one of the funnest.
I think it would be a perfect fit for the Wii and the Wiimote 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:35:22 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 06:31:29 PM »
Definitely Street Fighter IV, Resident Evil 5, Godfather 2, and the GTA series.
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Offline Spinnzilla

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 06:39:07 PM »
Lord of the Rings Conquest.   And maybe L4D.  Wiispeak would be a must though.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 06:45:07 PM »
I would say Burnout Paradise (a perfect game to de-stress), but having played it i fully understand why it isn't on wii.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 06:57:59 PM »
Earth Defense Force!

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 07:08:23 PM »
I would say Burnout Paradise (a perfect game to de-stress), but having played it i fully understand why it isn't on wii.
I haven't played it, but what makes it reasonable to not put on Wii?

As far as the other games... why would Wii be a good fit?
Not all of us have played those games, so we might not even know what kind of games they are.
Would you mind letting us know what kind of game it is and/or why it should be on Wii?

Offline Plugabugz

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 07:58:31 PM »
I would say Burnout Paradise (a perfect game to de-stress), but having played it i fully understand why it isn't on wii.
I haven't played it, but what makes it reasonable to not put on Wii?

The city itself is huge, the online play is integrated into the game (press two buttons and it will take you online), and the DLC (of which there's several) are at least 300mb each.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 08:01:13 PM by Plugabugz »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 08:34:00 PM »
I've been playing a lot of Gears of War 2 recently and I think if it were possible to scale it down to a level that would work with the Wii hardware the controls would be fantastic. Also, Mass Effect. Sadly, even if they were possible on the Wii Microsoft has paid large sums of money to keep them 360 exclusives.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 09:09:59 PM »
I would say Burnout Paradise (a perfect game to de-stress), but having played it i fully understand why it isn't on wii.
I haven't played it, but what makes it reasonable to not put on Wii?

The city itself is huge, the online play is integrated into the game (press two buttons and it will take you online), and the DLC (of which there's several) are at least 300mb each.

Since the DLC is already released they could just add it to the Wii version's main disk.

I really want Godfather 2 to come over and I'm hoping that EA's new Wii focused strategy will lead to it coming in the next year. Didn't the Wii version of the first game come a bit later as well?

Left4Dead would be amazing. I love that game and my computer can't run it so having a Wii version would be nice.

I want Beyond Good and Evil 2 to come to Wii. Period.

Geometry Wars 2 should be released on WiiWare at some point. They shouldn't base decisions on the poor sales of the Wii disk game because I thing Geometry Wars is more suitable as a D/L game.

RE5 can be done on Wii. I will be arrogant and say the devs are lying about it not possible to make on Wii. Dead Rising couldn't be done yet they tried that.

Metal Gear Solid 2-3 could be a possibility since we already got Twin Snakes on Gamecube. The PS2 three pack of 1-3 could be done on Wii and include the Twin Snakes version as opposed to the original MGS1.

This is just me but I would like a port of the PSP Lord of the Rings: Tactics ported to Wii since Wii/PSP projects are a common sight now.

A version of Portal could be great with the IR controls.

I also want to see a version of Patapon on either the Wii or DS.

Braid and Castle Crashers are others that I want as well.

Both the new Prince of Persia and the  XBLA remake of the original PC game with Sands of Time art should come over as well.

I'll top off this list with Soul Calibur 4. They have the SC2 engine. Upgrade that a bit and throw all the assets into that for a Wii version. They made a lot of SC fans with 2 on Gamecube and then they tossed them to the wind. Sure I was originaly drawn to the game due to Link, but I stayed because the whole game was amazing and I think a number of other players stayed as well.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 09:34:58 PM »
Resident Evil 5 would be terrible on the Wii. Terrible. First, it was made for online co-op which I don't trust on the Wii at all (yes, more friend code bitching). Split-screen multiplayer could be done, but it's not the same. Also, if they mapped the item change to the Wii remote's d-pad, I'd crap myself.

So far, it seems like everyone is thinking inside the box and only suggesting existing games, rather than real installments of popular series.

Anything I would want would have to be brand new and made specifically for the Wii.

1. Resident Evil. A real Resident Evil. Call it RE6 or Code Samantha... whatever. Just give it.
2. Metal Gear. A real Metal Gear, nothing like that Ac!d BS. Reboot, alternate universe... again whatever.
3. Final Fantasy XIV.
4. Panzer Dragoon. I'd prefer a sequel to Saga, but I'm surprised Sega hasn't already capitalized on this series on the Wii.
5. Phantasy Star. Based on Online, like Zero.
6. Castlevania. A real Castlevania, preferably 2D.

Sad, that I have to specify that a serious entry is  more desirable since we're accustomed to being given less.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 12:50:53 AM by Adrock »

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 03:14:11 AM »
I'm thinking SquareEnix should make a 3d Wiimake of FFVII & then do a Wii version of FFXIII to release along side the PS3 & X360 versions.
jRPG's have been having a hard time on the US shores and everyone has been calling for a FFVII remake. Why not give the fans what they want and release the FFVII Wiimake(as the appetizer) and FFXIII(the main course) on the #1 console in the US?

Sounds like easy money and a possible revival of the jRPG in the US & Europe.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 03:16:34 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 04:12:37 AM »
So far, it seems like everyone is thinking inside the box and only suggesting existing games, rather than real installments of popular series.

Then you're still thinking inside the box labelled "sequels". It's kinda duh that people want all the next installments of games on their system and with sequels there's no limit to how the game must fit the system, anything can be adjusted. With an existing game you have constraints and have to select those games where the change would actually make sense.

Offline SirSniffy

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 10:42:09 AM »
Since I am a Role Play guy, I think more of the niche RPG series should be brought in.

Suikoden
Wild Arms
Kingdom Hearts (I'd even settle for PS2 Final Mix)
Persona
Shadow Hearts

All the "freak" series that usually stay in Japan
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Nintendo should be like "We want all your RPGS on the Wii, PS3 doesn't want you, but we'll take it". Come on, if there are like 20+ dog and pony grooming games, why can't there be more niche RPGS?

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Offline Peachylala

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 11:47:50 AM »
Quote
1. Resident Evil. A real Resident Evil. Call it RE6 or Code Samantha... whatever. Just give it.
2. Metal Gear. A real Metal Gear, nothing like that Ac!d BS. Reboot, alternate universe... again whatever.
3. Final Fantasy XIV.
4. Panzer Dragoon. I'd prefer a sequel to Saga, but I'm surprised Sega hasn't already capitalized on this series on the Wii.
5. Phantasy Star. Based on Online, like Zero.
6. Castlevania. A real Castlevania, preferably 2D.
1. I'm kind of hesitant on this. If anything, Mikami's absence has hurt the RE development team.
2. Also iffy. While I would like to see an alternate universe (like the pre-MGS2 story with Lqiuid being alive), I don't want to go through millions of cutscenes of Kojima fan fiction.
3. I'd rather have a KH-like crossover with FF characters and nintendo characters, with the FFX-2 battle and job system. Get the FFXII scenerio writer and you've got gold.
4. Asking Sega to make a follow-up or sequal is like a wobbly bridge. It can stay solid (SatBK) or it can fall apart (Sonic Unleashed, NiGHTS: JoD). Then again, I just mentioned Sonic Team games, and the same development team who worked on Dragoon worked on Mario & Sonic, and that was a good sports game. And Sega games have a nice fanbase within the Nintendo fanbase, so why not?
5. I liked PSO 1&2 on the GCN (w/o online D':), sans the control issues. If Zero is good, I will fully support a Wii release.
6. Meh. IGA, like Kojima, spews enough bullshit to turn me off on the series. Though the recent Castlevania DS game was fun, the series needs a break. Though I would like the Dracula X Chronicles on DS, like it should've been IGA. >:(
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Offline rad.i.kal

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 02:46:08 PM »
Wee now have SD Storage, I think a lot of these titles will make it now that didn't due to DLC and just little storage type things!

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 02:59:09 PM »
Now 32gb cards should cheaper and cheaper every  month.
$75 is a lil much for me to spend on that right now (and I don't need it yet), so I will be all over this when it hits $40 or less.

Offline Plugabugz

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 03:12:05 PM »
I would say Burnout Paradise (a perfect game to de-stress), but having played it i fully understand why it isn't on wii.
I haven't played it, but what makes it reasonable to not put on Wii?

The city itself is huge, the online play is integrated into the game (press two buttons and it will take you online), and the DLC (of which there's several) are at least 300mb each.

Since the DLC is already released they could just add it to the Wii version's main disk.

True. But its still the issue of seamless integrated online play. It's possible if they bypass it with EA Nation.

Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 03:20:07 PM »
Godfather 2, GTA, RE, Burnout.  And some good FPS action. I'm st as far as traditional gaming goes.  However, Soul Calibur is awesome too.

I don't have time RPGs anymore sorry. :/  Except I would probably make time for a Phantasy Star Online game :P
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Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 05:46:44 PM »
Then you're still thinking inside the box labelled "sequels". It's kinda duh that people want all the next installments of games on their system and with sequels there's no limit to how the game must fit the system, anything can be adjusted. With an existing game you have constraints and have to select those games where the change would actually make sense.
Really? You're going to nitpick that one line in my post. I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering how often this happens. Fine. So be it. How else would you approach this? There are 2 possible answers: ports or sequels. I choose "sequel built for the Wii" because I don't want ports and saying I want unannounced games is pointless. I don't know why anyone would want a downgraded port of anything on another system. Wii owners complain about all the ports, but then ask for ports of X or Y game on 360/PS3.

And if it's so "duh" why did everyone settle for naming existing games. Seems to me that it wasn't so obvious. There was no "selective process" as people were just putting names of existing titles on other hardware out there. With the exception of Phantasy Star (which admittedly could be done on anything equally well), I chose series that I felt could really benefit from the Wii remote.
1. I'm kind of hesitant on this. If anything, Mikami's absence has hurt the RE development team.
2. Also iffy. While I would like to see an alternate universe (like the pre-MGS2 story with Lqiuid being alive), I don't want to go through millions of cutscenes of Kojima fan fiction.
3. I'd rather have a KH-like crossover with FF characters and nintendo characters, with the FFX-2 battle and job system. Get the FFXII scenerio writer and you've got gold.
4. Asking Sega to make a follow-up or sequal is like a wobbly bridge. It can stay solid (SatBK) or it can fall apart (Sonic Unleashed, NiGHTS: JoD). Then again, I just mentioned Sonic Team games, and the same development team who worked on Dragoon worked on Mario & Sonic, and that was a good sports game. And Sega games have a nice fanbase within the Nintendo fanbase, so why not?
5. I liked PSO 1&2 on the GCN (w/o online D':), sans the control issues. If Zero is good, I will fully support a Wii release.
6. Meh. IGA, like Kojima, spews enough bull**** to turn me off on the series. Though the recent Castlevania DS game was fun, the series needs a break. Though I would like the Dracula X Chronicles on DS, like it should've been IGA. >:(
1. I agree. Mikami was Resident Evil and his presence is missed. RE5 is no where near the brilliance of RE4, but given the choice, I'd pick a sequel over Darkside Chronicles.
2. I don't like long cut-scenes either, but I like the series and I think it could work on the console. Like all the series I've mentioned, I'd rather have MG than not have it. Getting these series shows that 3rd parties are finally recognizing the Wii's status as market leader instead of pretending it's a mini-game factory.
3. I just think getting a FF sequel is a slap to the face to Sony and SE admitting that they bet on the wrong horse. The irony of the series returning to Nintendo hardware (not counting remakes) is what makes this choice.
4. Under the right developer, any game can work. Overkill was a great game and Headstrong took it seriously. Panzer Dragoon is a perfect fit for the Wii whether its a shooter or an RPG. I have no idea why Sega thought Orta was an appropriate release on Xbox.
5. I've heard nothing but good things about Zero. The fact that it's follows Online, rather than Universe is a great sign. Sure, Portable is prettier, but Universe was a weaker game than Online.
6. Iagree; it needs an overhaul though the series would benefit more being on Nintendo hardware. Like the PS2 games, it'll get lost in the shuffle and the fanbase is largely comprised on Nintendo fans anyway.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 08:00:15 PM »
If it's possible I think EVERY game with an average score of 80% or higher that has been released on the PS3 and X360 but not the Wii should be released on the Wii, preferably with a discounted price to make up for the delay.  Though I don't think the hardware can handle it.

Because of the hardware issue I say all the major series just move to the Wii.  So we don't get Street Fighter IV but we get Street Fighter V.  Most of these series will crank out another sequel anyway.  And they don't even have to be exclusive.  If they want to make multiplatform games with the Wii as the target platform than I'm fine with it.  Excluding the market leader is what I don't like.  I want third party games that don't appear on the Wii to be rare exceptions like how non-PS2 third party games were last gen.  We're comparing market leader to market leader.  It's only fair to expect similar support.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 08:12:17 PM »
Ian, popular multiplatform franchises can go onto less powerful hardware. Its been that way ever since at least the SNES era when a game could be on both the consoles and on the much less powerful Gameboy as well. Of course, features ended up being cut out, but usually the handheld versions were decent in their own right. And now of course multiplatform games are often released on high end systems and on the DS as well, and the DS version will be extensively different (graphically weaker of course, but typically with touch screen capabilities and occasionally other bonuses).

But for some reason we aren't seeing this happening on the Wii as much. If a game could be released on the consoles AND on the DS as well, then why can't a game be released for the Wii as well as the high-end consoles? Maybe the game would have to be almost completely rewritten, but it could be done. When you take into account the Wii's larger userbase and its lower development costs I would say its definitely worth whatever it costs to rewrite a game.

One thing I think does hurt MP games on the Wii is the controls. Obviously a game like Street Fighter isn't going to make a lot of use of motion control, but why does it have to? Super Mario Galaxy is a game which hardly uses the motion controls at all, and it goes to show that the wii-mote and nunchuck together are perfectly capable of filling in for a standard controller. For that matter, third parties could also have their games depend on the classic controller. It does exist and they can make use of it, but for some reason there's this hangup that they absolutely HAVE to have wiggle-waggle control on the Wii. This was also a mistake companies made with the DS in the early years as well, but the DS now finally has games that don't depend on the touch screen at all. I think its time we start seeing Wii games that don't depend on the motion control as well. I mean, its nice if they can find a good use for it, but they need to realize that they don't absolutely have to.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 08:33:39 PM »
If a game could be released on the consoles AND on the DS as well, then why can't a game be released for the Wii as well as the high-end consoles? Maybe the game would have to be almost completely rewritten, but it could be done.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Of course, it can be done, but it's easier not to. One of the reasons 3rd party support is so subpar on the Wii is because it's easier and more cost effective to make the game for 360 then port it to PS3. A completely separate version for the Wii means 3rd parties have to make that much more back. Don't get me wrong, I still think the Wii deserves better support and I'm not giving 3rd parties a pass. There are pros and cons though I still think the pros slightly outweigh the cons. A userbase 50 million strong is hard to ignore.
Quote
... it goes to show that the wii-mote and nunchuck together are perfectly capable of filling in for a standard controller...
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 08:44:27 PM »
One of the reasons 3rd party support is so subpar on the Wii is because it's easier and more cost effective to make the game for 360 then port it to PS3. oesn't. Close, but no cigar.

Actually, developers tend to say it's easier to make the PS3 version first and port it to the Xbox 360 (the reason being that the PS3 is harder to program for, so it's easier to take that version and then make the Xbxo 360 version than it is to start with Xbxo 360 and try to port it to PS3).
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Offline Stratos

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 10:01:53 PM »
I agree with what you guys are saying Ian and Chozo, and the data shows that multiplatform efforts that include a Wii SKU sell equal or better that the non-Wii SKUs. Sure there are exceptions, but a lot of those were early in the systems life cycle and who could find a Wii in the first place back then?

I expect that in the next year developers will come to a similar conclusion regarding the Wii like they did with the DS already in regards to shoehorning the systems more exotic functions into games. Some have already gotten the idea with titles like No More Heroes.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 10:25:04 PM »
Actually, developers tend to say it's easier to make the PS3 version first and port it to the Xbox 360 (the reason being that the PS3 is harder to program for, so it's easier to take that version and then make the Xbxo 360 version than it is to start with Xbxo 360 and try to port it to PS3).
Whatever. The amount of nitpicking on these boards is both phenomenal and mind boggling. I was going by the fact that more 3rd parties games (not released simultaneously) are released on 360 first. Either way, the point remains the same.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2009, 12:23:34 AM »
I'm just gonna quote my post from the Sales Thread
going by the numbers above...
Quote
With only one exception, multiplatform games on the list that had versions on all current-gen systems sold better on Wii than on PS3.

The only exception is Rock Band 2, which was released two months after the PS3 version and was still within 30k.
Rock Band 2 - 1.02M (360) 384k (PS3) 353k (Wii)

In 7 out of 10 instances on the list, the Wii version outsold the 360 version as well.

In 6 of those instances, the Wii version sold more than (or was tied with) the 360 and PS3 versions COMBINED.

Guitar Hero 3 - 2.37M (360) 830k (PS3) 2.75M (Wii)
Guitar Hero: World Tour - 924k (360) 466k (PS3) 1.39M (Wii)
Lego Indiana Jones - 241k (360), 142k (PS3), 456k (Wii)
Shaun White - 271k (360), 141k (PS3), 537k (Wii)
Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)
Tiger Woods 09 - 216k (360), 174k (PS3), 565k (Wii)

Compared to the PS3, the Wii sold better
Star Wars Force Unleashed - 823k (360) 464k (PS3) 626k (Wii) 175k (DS) 263k (PSP) 352k (PS2)
Rock Band 1 - 1.65M (360) 648k (PS3) 1.03M (Wii)


So my question is, why do so many 3rd parties continue to ignore the Wii?
Imagine if RE5 had been released on all 3 platforms... do they think that over all sales might have been less? Would they have been embarrassed when the Wii version outsells one or both of the HD versions? ...combined?

So many 3rd parties out there are having a hard time getting the red ink off of their P&L statements and there is soo much money out there to be made. Money from a userbase that they continue to ignore (until recently) that is larger(WW) than the HD consoles combined.

I'm not saying that every game needs a Wii version, but if you're gonna go multi-plat then you might as well invest the necessary capital(half-ass efforts need not apply) to put it on all viable consoles and maximize your potential payback. You might find your audience somewhere that you probably didn't expect. ...somewhere in that 52% of console owners that aren't PS3 or X360.
Wtih that being said, I mostly agree with Ian and think all 3rd parties putting in a serious effort should have a Wii version releasing simultaneously that is made in the form of the HD version only from the ground up for the Wii.

But now that the obvious is out of the way, this thread is about what specific 3rd party games/franchises do you think should come to Wii and why. We would love for them all to come, but that would require a bunch of spoiled publishers/developers to swallow their pride and admit that they zigged when they should have wagged.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2009, 03:34:10 AM »
I'm not sure why this next game never made it to the Gamecube, but i think a Wiimake would be perfect.
 
Psychonauts by Double Fine.

I never played the game, but heard it was really good. I don't think there has been a major presence of good platformers on the system, so I think Psychonaut might actually find the audience that overlooked it last time. I know that didn't work out to well with Okami, but I don't exactly remember that game being advertised either.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2009, 12:09:50 PM »
Quote
For that matter, third parties could also have their games depend on the classic controller. It does exist and they can make use of it, but for some reason there's this hangup that they absolutely HAVE to have wiggle-waggle control on the Wii.

I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself.  So it's not seen as a standard but more like a niche accessory.  Nintendo needs to start packaging the classic controller with the Wii itself and make a game that specifically requires it and comes packed with it as well.  They've made games like Mario Kart and SSB that support it but they've never made a game that requires it.  They do that and suddenly the classic controller is a perfectly valid option for all developers.  But would they bother since they make money hand over fist anyway?

The DS thankfully always had the traditional controls right there attached to every system.  So third parties just had to realize "hey this forced touchscreen usage sucks" and start using the d-pad and buttons.  But with the Wii even if they realize waggle sucks they're stuck thinking "well if we design it specifically for the classic controller do enough people own that to make it worthwhile?"  Right now they're in a situation where the remote/nunchuk combo has to be supported in someway and that's going to mean some waggle.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2009, 02:15:55 PM »
I think it's justified, default CC would make lazy devs just use that thing instead of the Wiimote even in games where the Wiimote would be an improvement simply because it makes porting easier. It'd end with a library where half the games use the CC, justified or not. Hell, some idiot dev made an air hockey game for WiiWare that uses the freaking d-pad, imagine how much worse it would be if they could expect the CC to be present. At least with the Wiimote they have to think about their control setup and maybe even find ways to get something more interesting than just the boring old CC controls. Yes, inflexible devs will do stupid things with it by trying to keep all their buttons but instead mapping them to Wiimote gestures but those are idiots anyway. Most games have overcomplicated designs with tons of actions that could be cut with nearly zero impact on the gameplay and the Wiimote may just be the push they need to rethink their design.

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2009, 02:48:45 PM »
I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself. 

I don't think that will happen, Nintendo designed the Classic Controller mainly for Virtual Console games and I think they want to keep it that way.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2009, 02:57:31 PM »
I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself.

I don't think that will happen, Nintendo designed the Classic Controller mainly for Virtual Console games and I think they want to keep it that way.

They could package the Wii with a CC and 1000 Nintendo Points to help get new players online and trying WW and VC games.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2009, 04:53:09 PM »
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At least with the Wiimote they have to think about their control setup and maybe even find ways to get something more interesting than just the boring old CC controls.

I don't see how the old controls are "boring".  All I give a damn about is if the game plays well and if that requires a traditional controller or a flight stick or a mouse and keyboard or a wheel or a light gun or a Wii-mote so be it.  I want what's best for the game and what gives me the player the most responsive and intuitive controls.  So the remote for Wii Sports is perfect but when I have to shake the controller to do a simple on/off command that a digital button could do it makes the game more of a chore to play.  The controller isn't a toy, it's a tool.  Part of the problem is many Wii devs focus too much on the novelty of the remote and that's why we get waggle.

Despite what Nintendo tells us the "standard controller" has been the standard for over 20 years for a reason: it fucking works.  If third parties just try to make the best game they can we'll get better games.  If Nintendo is so damn confident in their "new standard" then they shouldn't have to worry about not enough games using it.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2009, 05:15:51 PM »
They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk. I guarantee you that if CC-only control was viable lazy developers would actually push out FPS ports with dual analog controls.

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2009, 05:27:35 PM »
Right you are, Cmdr. Duck.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2009, 07:20:07 PM »
I found a 3rd party game I would love to see hit the Wii

Prototype

The control improvements would be obvious once you watch the trailer.
But Radical gives you 10 other reasons why you would want this game.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2009, 12:36:40 AM »
Why exactly doesn't the wii-mote/nunchuck make a good traditional remote? The Wii-mote and chuck together have a good number of buttons, and there is also a D-Pad and an analog stick. What is it lacking that a PS3 or 360 isn't? If motion control is such a bad idea for some games, then why don't third parties simply not make use of it in those games? Instead of requiring a CC for traditional controls, why not just squeeze traditional control methods out of the mote/chuck?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2009, 12:49:48 AM »
ABXY/Triangle square circle x/whatever the xbox has could all be replaced by up down left right on the d-pad
and then you still have the two shoulder buttons on the nunchuck and A & B on the wiimote to replace the other shoulder buttons.

seems like plenty of alternative buttons in a perfectly reachable place without the use of motion controls

Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2009, 02:40:43 AM »
There should be no classic controller. There should be one controller capable of doing everything reasonable well. If you can't imagine such a thing, keep in mind that Nintendo spends millions designing controllers. They'd figure it out. See, I'd be more forgiving if the DS didn't prove that a balance can be met. Developers still design games around the touchscreen and these aren't isolated cases.

They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk.
Sure, that's the reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that Nintendo charges $20 for something they could have designed into the Wii remote/nunchuck combo in the first place. Nintendo is add-on crazy and 3rd parties are being lazy anyway.

I see the Wii remote/nunchuck combo as a work in progress. There's definitely room for improvement and obviously Nintendo thinks so if they're releasing Motion Plus. Every defense of the Wii remote's design is easily torn down by Nintendo themselves. For example, if more buttons causes confusion, why are there so many buttons on the DS? And yet, it works. No one is complaining that there are too many buttons on the DS. Even then, I'm not necessarily advocating adding more buttons. If I were to redesign the Wii remote, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the D-Pad and make the A button into 4 buttons (which almost mirrors a D-pad anyway). Technically, that's one less button, but it'd make a world of difference. I hate when actions are mapped to the D-pad. It's not comfortable in my opinion.

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2009, 02:51:15 AM »
What if instead of having a 'nunchuck' you had a second WiiMote? Dual IR sensing and more buttons? Just a thought.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2009, 02:51:54 AM »
The D-Pad needs to be there for games that use the NES style controls.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2009, 03:38:51 AM »
Why exactly doesn't the wii-mote/nunchuck make a good traditional remote? The Wii-mote and chuck together have a good number of buttons, and there is also a D-Pad and an analog stick. What is it lacking that a PS3 or 360 isn't? If motion control is such a bad idea for some games, then why don't third parties simply not make use of it in those games? Instead of requiring a CC for traditional controls, why not just squeeze traditional control methods out of the mote/chuck?

There are 12 buttons, 2 analog sticks and 1 dpad on a DualShock controller and the overcomplicated games use every single one of them.

There should be no classic controller. There should be one controller capable of doing everything reasonable well. If you can't imagine such a thing, keep in mind that Nintendo spends millions designing controllers. They'd figure it out. See, I'd be more forgiving if the DS didn't prove that a balance can be met. Developers still design games around the touchscreen and these aren't isolated cases.

They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk.
Sure, that's the reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that Nintendo charges $20 for something they could have designed into the Wii remote/nunchuck combo in the first place. Nintendo is add-on crazy and 3rd parties are being lazy anyway.

I see the Wii remote/nunchuck combo as a work in progress. There's definitely room for improvement and obviously Nintendo thinks so if they're releasing Motion Plus. Every defense of the Wii remote's design is easily torn down by Nintendo themselves. For example, if more buttons causes confusion, why are there so many buttons on the DS? And yet, it works. No one is complaining that there are too many buttons on the DS. Even then, I'm not necessarily advocating adding more buttons. If I were to redesign the Wii remote, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the D-Pad and make the A button into 4 buttons (which almost mirrors a D-pad anyway). Technically, that's one less button, but it'd make a world of difference. I hate when actions are mapped to the D-pad. It's not comfortable in my opinion.

The DS simply doesn't use ANY buttons in the games aimed at the new market. That way there's no confusion which button clicks, none of them do. You use the stylus. Your four buttons on the top of the Wiimote would instantly create confusion about which one does the clicking.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2009, 06:32:44 AM »
The D-Pad needs to be there for games that use the NES style controls.

That's what the classic controller is for. I agree the D-pad is awkward to use when you are holding the Wii-mote in one hand. The same kinda goes for the 1 and 2 and + and - buttons as well. These CAN be used as action buttons in a game, but they really suck for that purpose. The A and B buttons are easy enough to use, but there should be about 4 more similarly easy buttons within easy reach of your thumb and forefinger when you are holding the wiimote in one hand.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2009, 08:21:16 AM »
But with that many buttons to choose from, which one is the one that clicks? The Wiimote follows the Gamecube's lead by making a big, visible button the standard select button. Of course I've had a PS2 gamer delete my Burnout savegame because he instinctively thought the big green one meant no while the small red one meant yes...

Offline Adrock

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2009, 03:08:13 PM »
The DS simply doesn't use ANY buttons in the games aimed at the new market. That way there's no confusion which button clicks, none of them do. You use the stylus. Your four buttons on the top of the Wiimote would instantly create confusion about which one does the clicking.
You just solved your own problem. None of the face buttons need to have actions mapped to them. There's a single trigger underneath the Wii remote. Which one clicks? The B trigger or all the face buttons could do the same thing. Nothing is idiot proof, but that doesn't mean the world has to adhere to people who can't follow simple on-screen prompts such as "press any button to continue/select/"

Anything can be confusing without familiarity and everything has a learning curve. Knowing when and when not to swing the Wii remote requires some improvement in skill. "Easy to use" does not equate "dumbed down" and I don't think Nintendo really knows the difference yet.

Offline Kairon

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2009, 03:18:28 PM »
I don't know Adrock, have you seen the Wiimote prototypes? MANY of them had multiple buttons in place of the single A button.

Everytime this argument about needing more face buttobns pop up, I think back to those prototypes. I think Nintendo probably had very good reason to abandon those multiple button configurations when those were in fact so abundant in their testing.

It's easy to look at this from a conventional wisdom perspective and think that all we need are "MOAR BUTTONS" (TUUUUUBBBEESS) but I think we've seen that merely following conventional wisdom actually leads to a narrowing field of possibilities, instead of opening up new avenues for gaming and gamers.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 03:25:13 PM by Kairon »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2009, 04:35:03 PM »
The way you can avoid button confusion is to have the buttons shaped and/or sized differently. This was one thing I really loved about the GC controller, and I'm glad to see Nintendo carried this concept over to the Wiimote, but they really need about 4 more buttons so that the wiimote would at least be compatible with SNES games on the VC. Had they done that, then with the combination of the nunchuck virtually every game would be mappable to the controls.

As for these additional buttons, Nintendo could have made them stand apart from one another by giving them strange shapes like rectangles and triangles and so on, and perhaps made their size different as well. It also would have helped to have them in bright contrasting colors, maybe even have them light up with an led or something for easy viewing in a dark room. Had they done this then there would be far less chance of confusion and at the same time there would have been no need for the classic controller at all.
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