Topic: Nintendo lowers profit expectations... again

[godwheel]

I'm looking forward to Mario Tennis and Golf

[couchmonkey]

Silks: funny you should insult Nintendo for all the "rehashes" when the game that's selling the Playstation, Grand Theft Auto, is the fourth in the series and the second in two years!  Metroid Prime was the first game in it's series in almost ten years, Super Mario Sunshine was the first game in it's series in six years, and Nintendo has also taken the initiative to release new games like Eternal Darkness, Pikmin and Animal Crossing while Sony relies on GTA and Microsoft relies on Halo 2.

I don't believe a lack of originality or new games is Nintendo's problem, the fact is most people want more of the same old crap.  I just listed three of Nintendo's new franchises for the past year, but they were all easily outsold by recognized franchises like Mario and Zelda.

I tend to agree that Nintendo's main weakness is marketing.  Microsoft is marketing the hell out of Xbox, and sales show that it is paying off.  Nintendo may be profitable, but to ensure the long-term profitablitity of the company, it needs to take some risks.  I should be seeing ads for GameCube games new and old 24 hours a day everywhere I go.  The company should be working with third parties to ensure that every major new release is announced loud and clear.  Games like Beach Spikers and Resident Evil could have been capitalized on far better by Nintendo.

But in the end, none of us know how to "fix" Nintendo any better than anyone else.  Honestly, if we could have seen where the GameCube is today two years ago, we all would have wet our pants and said, "Wow, GameCube is going to kick ass! Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil!"  I think Nintendo has answered virtually every problem the N64 faced (yes, including the "mature games" problem) so how come the GameCube isn't outselling the other consoles?  We can all theorize, but I don't believe we know the answer.

[thecubedcanuck]

I know one thing is for sure. If nintendo doesnt start making more FPS or games in the style of GTA for example them this will be my last Nintendo console. Games like Zelda could have been so so great. The graphics were great, the game play great, the depth of the dungeons unmatched, however the game was clearly targeted at little kids. Everystep you made there was something telling you exactly what to do next. I know my brother in law has already said he will not but another Nintendo system.
I cant imagine we are the only 2 people who feel this way, this is a serious issue for the Big N because falling sales on a yearly basis are never a good thing.

[mac<censored>]

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
I know one thing is for sure. If nintendo doesnt start making more FPS or games in the style of GTA for example them this will be my last Nintendo console.  Games like Zelda could have been so so great. The graphics were great, the game play great, the depth of the dungeons unmatched, however the game was clearly targeted at little kids.  Everystep you made there was something telling you exactly what to do next. I know my brother in law has already said he will not but another Nintendo system.  I cant imagine we are the only 2 people who feel this way.

Probably you're not the only ones who feel this way, but that doesn't make you the majority either.  There are lots of styles of gameplay, and each ones has it's fans; if you're a FPS fan, well, great, maybe you should go for the Xbox or something.  Indeed, look at the wild success of console RPGs in Japan, many of which are are far worse than zelda in terms of `hand holding.'

Personally I love Zelda, it just has this great `feel' that most other games come nowhere near capturing, and manages to seem far freer than a typical console RPG (despite the same general system of linear or semi-linear goals).  So, Nintendo:  more Zelda please!

[as for `clearly targeted at little kids', that's just silly; I suspect this comment says more about you than about the actual game]

[Cap]

"If nintendo doesnt start making more FPS or games in the style of GTA"

what does that mean? i know zelda's a great game, and i know grand theft auto is a great game. i'm going to assume you simply mean more "m" rated games, seeing as how zelda was cleary targeted at children. i also know that there are many first person shooters for gamecube(nightfire, timesplitters, metroid, die hard, red faction, hitman2(still coming i hope) & medal of honor off the top of my head). do you actually want grand theft auto and halo on gamecube? sorry, its not going to happen. if your unhappy with your gamecube, get rid of it.  

[JoeFalco]

I'm not a big fan of the FPS.  Metroid Prime was the first good experience I had with FPS games besides the classic Wolfenstein and Shadows of the Empire for the N64.

[thecubedcanuck]

cap

I already have an X-box and a PS2, I had bought the Gamecube to play the Nintendo Classics like Mario and Zelda. However I found the new versions of these classics very boring, especially WW and Metroid, sunshine was just plain bad IMO.
So unless Nintendo makes a few original shooters, or vastly improves on its classics, I wont be back next gen.
As for GTA I would love to see it run on the cube.

[WesDawg]

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seeing as how zelda was cleary targeted at children

Jeesh, when will people stop saying stuff like this. WW isn't targeted at children. It's not targeted at any age group as far as I care. It's just Zelda, and the its the best Zelda ever I think. Anyways, Nintendo refuses to make games that glorify the things GTA or even Conker's did. That doesn't make the games for kids, it just makes 'em moral.

[jarob]

I agree with WesDog.  Just because there is not a ton of blood and guts does not mean it is for kids only.  I am 32 and I love this game.  

[Cap]

wesdog, i noticed you took the quote from my reply, when i was simply making a statement about cubedcanucks reply. i wasnt actually saying it was for children. cubedcanuck is entitled to his opinion, but i think most people including myself agree its a great game.

cubedcanuck, i honestly dont know what to say. if you cant enjoy at least one of metroid, zelda, or mario, you should just sell your gamecube. obviously nintendo makes a different style of games then you are looking for.  

[bonestormer]

Metroid Prime (which is NOT a FPS!) was my favorite console game of last year. And if Zelda TWW isn't my favorite this year, we are in for a damn fine year of gaming But that's hardly the point.

The way I look at it is if I were on the market to buy a system (be it PS2, XBox, or GC), would I actually get a GC over the other two? Keeping in mind that most diehard Nintendo fans that are big fans of the Zeldas, Marios, ect already probably have a GC, then my answer is 'no'. That can't be a good thing.

GC/Nintendo's image needs a huge boost. It needs a MUCH better selection/variety in games. Sure it has a few violent bloody games, a few RPGs, a few fighters, ect. But it could use much more. 3rd parties listen up! Most still GC as either kiddy or a machine just to play the next Mario. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it IS its percieved image.

And no matter what Sprite says, image IS everything (in terms of marketing).

[greenwood]

Mingesium- "did you even read the article?
The reason why they didn't make as much money is because of lackluster GameCube sales."


Are you talking to me? Because I clearly stated that unmet sales expectations of the GCN were one of the reasons why Nintendo didn't make as much money. That's right, it's only one. Nintendo's not going to say, "We're paying Capcom x dollars for some exclusive RE games." or "We're paying Konami x dollars for Metal Gear Solid-whatever it turns out to be" or "We're eating x dollars on the Oot/MQ disc". They're also reached an agreement with Namco to publish 6 Japanese games and Bandai to publish however many games they're making, plus they made a deal with (I think it's) Natsume to publish the Harvest Moon GCN/GBA games. Plus, they made a deal with Ubi Soft to bring Rayman 3 out earlier on the GCN and the EA deal. And we also know that Nintendo is trying to reach similar deals with other 3rd parties.
But we won't mention any of that because I'm sure it didn't cost Nintendo a dime.  

[Mario]

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Can't wait to play Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Pachinko, Mario Poker, Mario Swimming, Mario Freestyle Skiing, Mario BMX, Mario Othello, Super Mario Moonshine, Mario Kart 8, Zelda: The Sleep Inducer, and maybe you could throw in yet another Kirby sequel, 1080 sequel, F-Zero sequel and Donkey Kong Country sequel.

You forgot Mario Ping Pong, Mario Handball, Mario Cricket, Mario Baseball, Mario Soccer, Mario Chess, Mario Volleyball, Mario Hockey, Mario Wall Ball, Mario Lawn Bowles, Mario Hangliding, Mario Swimming, Mario Shotput, Mario Pushups, Mario Rowing, Mario Sailing, Mario Archery, Mario Badminton, Mario Bobsledding, Mario Rugby, Mario Wrestling, Mario Skateboarding, Mario Snowboarding, Mario Cheerleading, Mario Bullfighting, Mario Polo, Mario Cockfighting, Mario Skiing, Mario Tug-of-war, Mario Table Tennis, Mario Camel Racing, Mario Equestrian, Mario Diving, Mario Fencing, Mario Fishing, Mario Canoeing, Mario Softball, Mario Martial Arts, Mario Running, Mario Squash, Mario Windsurfing, Mario Gymnastics, Mario Track & Field, Mario Surfing, Mario BMX, Mario Walking, Mario Dodgeball, Mario Boxing, Mario Weighlifting, Mario Dog Racing, Mario Cycling, Mario Arm Wrestling, Mario Basketball, Mario Envelope Folding, Mario Thumb Wars, Mario Netball, Mario Triathlon, Mario Judo, Mario Target Practice, Mario Carwashing, Mario Billiards, Mario Pong, Mario Hot Potato, Mario Gold Digging, Mario Heads Down Thumbs Up, Mario Figure Skating, Mario Gladiators, Mario Syncronised Swimming, Mario Lacross, Mario F1, Mario Scootering, Mario Backgammon, Mario Dominoes, Mario Skydiving, Mario of Honor, Mario Spear Fishing, Mario Tips, Mario Slippery Dip, Mario Bird Watching, Mario Mountain Biking, Mario Slalom, Mario Brandings, Mario Hunting, Mario Trampoline or Mario Flower Picking and Mario Bowling.

Mario will take over the world!

[Termin8Anakin]

Whoa.
Nintendo had better cash in on all of this!

[thecubedcanuck]

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It is kinda sad. That games like GTA3 sell so well while great games like Metroid and Mario Sunshine

Mario Sunshine is far from a great game. IMO it is the worst 1st party game Nintendo has released this generation, possibly of all time.

As for what I said about Zelda being geered for children.

I mean that everytime you walk into a room they point out exactly what you need to do. Either someone is in the room to tell you or your stupid rocks starts flashing. This IMO took away all the excitment of trying to figure out what to do next. If this isnt done for children then who is done for? Does Nintendo think we are all that stupid?

[StRaNgE]

take a minute and check out this topic about gamecube sales and you can see other peoples uninformed biased opinions. It is rather interesting how off  some people get.

Nintendo sales topic

also in the 1st post there is a link to an NBC site which does nothing but make the cube again look like it's going down. Why  don;t news  people just stick to reporting  things they know about?

[Luciferschild]

Silks man I agree whole heartedly with you. I hedged on whether to even buy a gamecube or ps2 and I've been mostly dissapointed with gc. I thought I'd get a killer perfect dark sequel and a sweet zelda game but instead no pd and a kiddie zelda that I'm not even that inerested in playing because I can't stand the way it looks and hear it's extremely easy which really annoys me. Who was nintendo marketing to with a purple gamecube. Little girls? Last time I checked video games are a male driven industry. And most little kids don't like "kiddie" games, they like games that are violent and mature like gta. There is no kid gamer market besides a few kids who's parents won't let them play violent games. Hell, if I was a kid I'd be turned off by nintendo. American culture is driven by sex and violence, apparently nintendo doesn't understand this or they are really just a bunch of wussies. X-box got it right with their marketing. Nintendo has done nothing to dispell the kiddie image so they kinda deserve to lose. I like games like mario and zelda, but I also like more mature violent cool type games too. The kind nintendo refuses to make. I love ssbm but I'd like it that much more if there was blood and fatalities. Right now I'm playing skies of arcadia, and you can tell nintendo didn't make this because there are some scantily clad ladies, that kind of thing doesn't hurt you know. My message to nintendo would be to grow up a little....or parish. There's my 2 cents.    

[NWR_Lindy]

Responses:

COUCHMONKEY - Vice City is a total rehash, I'll agree with you there (and that's why I don't own it).  But I'd say that Grand Theft Auto III is the title that REALLY started selling PS2s, and like Metroid Prime, it was the first GTA to go 3-D.  So even though it was the third in the series, it was essentially a brand new gaming experience.

As for Mario Sunshine, sure it was the first Mario game in six years, but its gameplay was virtually identical to Mario 64.  Sure you had the FLUDD and all that, but at its core it was Mario 64 all over again.

Pikmin and Animal Crossing?  Two more cutesy-looking games that were embraced by hardcore adults and 10-year-old kids, but shunned by teenage males.

Better marketing would help tremendously, but I think overall Nintendo needs to be more unpredictable.  They always tend to tell the public what they want instead of listening to what they want and giving it to them.  "You don't need DVD-ROM, all you need is our 1.5GB Mini-Discs".

MACSHIT - by "Clearly targeted at little kids" I mean "the story is dumbed down so that a child can understand it".  For example, compare the story of Metal Gear Solid 2 to Wind Waker - I think the target audiences differ a little bit.  Not that I want Zelda to turn into MGS, but for once could Link show maybe a little emotion?  Maybe have somebody close to him die, causing him to want revenge?  A little rounding out of his character?  Something a little different from the "Ganon comes back (AGAIN) and kidnaps a female relation (AGAIN)" story they do EVERY time?  Zelda is like a fairy tale - as a kid you like fairy tales, but when you're an adult you want something a little more meaty.  Without a good story backing it all up the gameplay is just a meaningless exercise to me.

That's why I loved Eternal Darkness - I was playing the game to find out how the story ended.  The story MATTERED.  With Zelda, you know how the story ends: you go through your eight dungeons, beat the bosses (and all the bosses probably take three hits to kill), then you fight Ganon (and he probably changes form a few times), your rescue Zelda/sister and that's it.  What's the point?  Where's the surprise?

MARIO - hahaha, I can't wait for Mario Thumb Wars.  Mario Spear Fishing should be pretty dope too LOL

I think my overall beef is that Nintendo needs to get off its high horse.  They aren't making their games to be displayed in the Smithsonian as paradigms of video gaming, they're making their games to be played by teenage males.  If teenage males like Grand Theft Auto III, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Halo, why not make some games like that?  What's WRONG with that?  Don't sit there and infer that the buying public is stupid and low-brow because they love those games and buy them like hotcakes.

I'm not asking for porn, I'm asking for games that have deeper plots and themes that appeal to adult audiences.  We shouldn't be thankful and appreciative when Soul Calibur 2 is released for Gamecube - it shouldn't even be an issue.  Game releases like that should be a given.

I'm not saying Super Mario Sunshine and Zelda: Wind Waker suck, because they don't, but games in that vein are practically ALL that Nintendo has been releasing for the last six years.  Compare the variety of games on SNES to N64 and Gamecube...it's downright depressing.

silks

[PIAC]

GTA3 has a deep plot?

anyways, im in the opposite opinion of silks, i want nintendo to stay their current tack, but perhaps second/third parties (which they are doing) to create "mature" titles. if nintendo change to make gta3 style clones it will be a black day indeed. unfortunatly i seem to be the minority =\ i dont like "mature" games with gore and sex etc, i would much rather play zelda, mario, yoshi styl e games etc.

also to luciferschild, erm, if you dont like the purple last time i checked there were 3 other colour posibilities, i personally got the purple one, its a console not a car, colour really isn't that imporant, its mearly asthetics that dont effect gameplay

[WesDawg]

OK, Magic Box has Japan sales data for the last year up. Nintendo games are in 5 of the top 10 spots. How the crap is the company loosing money, or did they just set their sights to high? I'll never understand this industry.

[Mingesium]

Nintendo isn't losing money. They made a profit, but not what they expected.

[kennyb27]

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Nintendo blamed the sluggish performance of GameCube and its software to rising popularity of such PlayStation 2 titles as Grand Theft Auto
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Thats from IGN Cube..... Seems like Nintendo finally "Got it" If this is the reason for their lack luster sales then i see more of the GTA type games appearing on the cube, and less of the pikmins and Mario sunshines. Nintendo is changing.... The Nintendo of the future isnt your NES nintendo folks.... Its almost quasi historic.

See, I have the opposite opinion.  I think it's ridiculous for Nintendo to "blame" their sales on the rise of popularity of other games.  I don't exactly have a quick-fix solution for Nintendo for this.  But I believe it is immature to throw the blame at something else.  In my opinion, it's time for Nintendo to pick up the slack.

[Michael8983]

I think everyone's just overcomplicating this.
It seems to me that the economy should get almost all the blame. Nintendo expected people to run out and buy its consoles in droves each time a "big" game came out and they did just that years ago in the Clinton years when the economy was great but things have changed a lot since then. The economy is bad in the US and really bad in Japan.
People just want to buy "safe" systems like the PS2 and GBA. The PS2 because it has such a huge selection of games and is "trusted" and the GBA because it's so cheap. I actually think one of the GCN's biggest problems is that parents are buying GBAs for their kids instead of consoles for that exact reason.
Who knows. Maybe the economy will get better in coming years and Nintendo's consoles sales will go WAY up. Or maybe Bush will blow up the world and console sales won't matter anymore anyway. For now, Nintendo will just have to settle for making a massive ton of money as opposed to making a massive, MASSIVE ton of money while just about everyone else in the gaming industry is losing millions and facing possible death. How I pity Nintendo!

[Armed]

Nah i dont think you can blame the economy for this because if it is the economy gba, ps2, xbox would experience the same loss, but instead gba had more profit than expected.  What I think is that it is Nintendos' fault i'm kind of disgusted to say this, but our society is based on sex, and violence, I mean look all around us even soda companies like Pepsi are advertising like this with that enticing singer dancing around their whole commercial, really now what does she have to do with the soda.  I'm not saying Nintendo should go this way but if they expect more profit they need to stop blaming someone else, and just fix it by listening to consumer demands; for ex. Zelda i'm not saying i'm not satisfied with it because i reserved it a month before it came out, but i did like that old e3 video with ganon and link fighting each other in a more realistic look better than the cel shaded version, and they knew most of the consumers wanted this too, but instead defied it and went their own way, that is probably why it has not reached 1 million in Japan yet.  Also their advertising strategy is close to none, i have seen only one GC commercial during the month of march which was for zelda:ww, compared to xbox wich i saw multiple times in each week of that month advertising their new fighting game.

Doesn't it get annoying that they keep blaming other companies for their losses!

[Perfect Cell]

kennyb27, Nintendo is basically saying todays gamer doesnt want what we are offering, they want violent games. Halos, and GTAS, and Nintendo isnt known for that. Nintendo isnt mainstream. Watch MTV Cribs, when some Rapper or Sports star shows his TV, you always see a PS2, not a GCN, and Nintendo needs to rectify this.. They need to make the Gamecube cool for the mainstream gamer, if they want to make gains in sales instead of strugling like they are doing.