Topic: TALKBACK: NWR Round-Table 3: 500 Copies Sold

[NWR_Lindy]

All I'll say is that Nintendo has long had a chilly relationship with third-parties.  This isn't something that just happened.  It goes all the way back to the NES when Nintendo was bullying third-parties so that they would play by their rules.  They've been pushing around third-parties for more than 20 years, so they aren't going to stop any time soon.  This has to be part of the reason for third-parties are not "playing ball"...Nintendo has never played ball with them, ever, really.  Nintendo always done their own thing, and if third-parties like it, fine.  If not, that's fine too.

Nintendo has never been an innocent victim here.  They've chosen to put themselves on a very profitable island.

[BlackNMild2k1]

While we're on the topic of old ports and non-marketed games, CoD4:Modern Warfare [REFLEX] Wii Alternate Edition.

Not only were they claiming that the game wasn't possible on Wii 2.5 years ago (good thing the WiiHD came out and changed that) but the game is already in the stores (it shipped) and all we have are the pre-alpha screen shots (from months ago)that look like a PS2 game. This may sadly be the best FPS on Wii and all we get is a boxart and pre-alpha screenshot? Not to mention that the game that couldn't wouldn't be done is 2 years late and releases on the same day as MW2. Are they really banking on the fact that Wii owners will pick up the Wii version in hopes that it was like the commercials for MW2 by accident?

[NWR_Neal]

I don't think they're claiming that. I think Infinity Ward just doesn't like developing for Wii.

I see Modern Warfare Wii as more of a "we don't have a Wii CoD game this year. Hey Treyarch, wanna port CoD4?" "Sure, boss! I'll port all of your crap to Wii."

[NWR_Lindy]

None of those big PC developers (Infinity Ward, Bethesda, BioWare, etc.) care about developing on Wii.  The platform doesn't really allow them to do what they want to do with 3D, and the whole waggle deal wouldn't be their forte anyways.  Bethesda has mentioned it, but nothing serious ever came of it.  Heck, they even dumped the PSP Elder Scrolls game, so that shows you how much they care about developing on older hardware.

[NWR_DrewMG]

something something innovation something market share..

[BlackNMild2k1]

Regardless of the reasoning behind it, I don't see the situation on the Wii getting much better without significant effort from Nintendo, not necessarily with moneyhats but some kind of strong involvement in the process. For that to happen, though, Nintendo has to want it to happen, and there's no good reason for them to want it to happen (from Nintendo's perspective).

I generally try to avoid agreeing with Ian, but a while back he made the point that it may not be a good thing that Nintendo was able to return to dominance completely on their own; as impressive as that feat was, they never had to change the way they dealt with third parties, which may prevent them from holding on to the top spot.

Are you happy now?

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata first announced this initiative last year, at a press event announcing the release date for Dragon Quest IX in Japan. There, he said that Nintendo and Square Enix would “tag team” to increase the visibility and success of the series in the U.S.


Hatano said that helping to sell Dragon Quest IX outside Japan is part of a larger effort on the part of Nintendo to partner with software makers to sell their games for Nintendo hardware. He mentioned Professor Layton and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games as two other examples.

Now Nintendo is marketing the games for the 3rd parties. Select ones with effort put into their games atleast.

This is from that Investor Relations interview with Nintendo: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/091030qa/02.html

Shinji Hatano (General Manager, Marketing Division):
It has become challenging for one software to pay off the development cost with the Japan sales alone. The presence of the Japanese software companies is not what it used to be. The Japanese domestic sales are, of course, important. But the third parties have better grip on the Japanese market, so it may make sense for Nintendo to cooperate in their overseas marketing, for example, by us cooperating in both promotional and marketing activities.
We have been thinking in this manner, and we have already cooperated with some third parties. We did it last year and will do so this year on Mario & Sonic Olympic Games with Sega. The original Nintendo DS and Wii versions of Mario & Sonic Beijing Olympic Games together sold more than 11 million units last year. This year, the new Mario & Sonic Winter Olympic Games will be marketed by Nintendo in Japan and by Sega in the overseas markets. Nintendo is also doing some supportive activities for their overseas promotions too.
So, at a certain time in their development phase, when we can learn the substance of the software from the third parties, we try to think what we can do and how in order to maximize the sales. In the days when it is difficult for a software to pay off in Japan alone, we need to tackle the challenges with the software publishers. As I explained by comparing the memory sizes of a NES game and Blue-ray as an example, the development costs are increasing for the third parties. Recognizing the circumstance, our position is to cooperate wherever appropriate in order to realize the most desirable results.

Iwata:
In that regard, I anticipate the relationship between software makers and Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer to change from now. In regard to the relationship, I often discuss with Mr. Hatano lately that we cannot foresee the future by saying, "It must be like this because it used to be that way in the past." It is time we have to invent new ways.

Seems like Nintendo is really pushing to help 3rd parties on the marketing and publishing side of things since it's hard to make the money back on on the games from Japan alone.

[NWR_Lindy]

Seems like Nintendo is really pushing to help 3rd parties on the marketing and publishing side of things since it's hard to make the money back on on the games from Japan alone.

If by "3rd parties" you mean "Square Enix, and Sega when they make a big-selling sequel featuring Mario in which Nintendo has a vested interest".

[KDR_11k]

Isn't Mario & Sonic Sega's biggest cash cow ATM?

Also speaking of third party relations, why the hell does the Wii version of PES 10 get released way after the other versions? I've already seen several people in stores who were looking for the Wii version already.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sabotage. [/Beastie Boys]

[KDR_11k]

I mean, PES is pretty damn major, the Wii versions tend to score 10 points higher on Metacritic than the 360 versions (haven't checked the other platforms but I think they're the same as the 360). I don't have sales numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if the Wii version sold more too. So why does it come later?

EDIT: Just checked, if VGChartz is to be believed on this (questionable since the vast majority of sales is in the "other" region and data on that is spotty at best) PES 2009 sold 2 million copies on the PS3 and only 290 thousand on the Wii (previous year was 1.7M to 1M, did they **** up tracking it or did the 2009 edition really see such a severe drop in sales compared to 2008? If so, WHY?). Serious WTF there, definitely can't blame that on the quality. You'd think traditional PES would suffer much more from FIFA's rise in quality than the RTS-y Wii version.

EDIT2: Checked the release dates, PES 2008 had the Wii version only 6 days later than the others, PES 2009 had the Wii version 5 MONTHS later. Didn't know the delay was THIS huge, no surprise it's fucking the sales. The PS2 version sold the best BTW so HD is not the deciding factor.

[BlackNMild2k1]

sabotage!!! [/Beastie Boys]

[Mop it up]

Forgive me, but I have no idea what "PES" is.

[KDR_11k]

Pro Evolution Soccer.

[vudu]

This game looks like it might be a lot of fun, comparable to other games in the genre, nice graphics, high production values. On a console with 50,000,000 sold, this game should've sold 50,000 copies by ACCIDENT. I'm serious: 50,000 people (.001% of the Wii userbase) should've picked this game up because they thought it was a different game or maybe just because they thought it would shut their kids up.

I know I'm a week late but I feel like I have to correct this bit of "fuzzy math".

First, 50,000 people is 0.1% of the Wii user base.  500 people is 0.001% of the Wii user base, which is the number of people who actually bought the game.  You had a mistake with your decimal place.

Second, the game has only been released in America.  So the actual Wii user back is closer to 25 million, tops.  So 50,000 people would be 0.2% of the Wii user base.

Your point is still valid but this was driving me crazy.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Whats funnier is that he said .001% should have picked up the game on accident, and that's exactly what happened.