Topic: The Death of a Zelda Fan: my WW experience

[Bloodworth]

Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
As far as insults go, I'm going pretty easy these days, since Bloodworth is no doubt watching me like a hawk.

Heh, don't forget it...especially when both of you are around.

[mouse_clicker]

"It really could have been brilliant. Its just to bad it isn't"

Please make the distinction between what YOU thought of the game and the actual quality of it. I don't mind that you thought the game was boring, but that's because the game didn't appeal to you specifically, not because it was poorly made, which it most certainly wasn't. I can understand that you didn't like the game, although I completely disagree, but please recognize that the game WAS made almost perfectly.

[ResidentEvil]

Luciferschild is right.  If you wonder why a majority of the gaming world views the Gamecube as kiddie, just look at this freakin' game.  If you ask any Xbox/Ps2 owner to look at Link's character in this game, 99% would say that he looks like he's a toddler running around w/ a load in his pants.  You people just don't want to see how bad this game is ruining Nintendo, all you want to hear is how this Zelda game is going to skyrocket the Big N to #1. Well, all I've heard since the game's release is how bad Nintendo's sales are going.  And to add to the fact that you can get Wind Waker free w/ a Gamecube purchase, and you can see just how desperate Nintendo is.  Just WHY would Nintendo put their "supposedly" biggest game on the market, up for free?  Well, Nintendo better hurry up and make some Pokemon games  and hope they save them from bankruptcy

[Bloodworth]

Quote
Originally posted by: ResidentEvil
Just WHY would Nintendo put their "supposedly" biggest game on the market, up for free?

Umm..because it's a system seller.  Same as Metroid.  People are buying the system for this game despite what 14 year-olds on the Internet are saying.  

[Tygerqb12]

I've been playing Wind Waker here in college, and some of my friends used to see me playing and were like, this game sucks, the graphics were better in OoT, and stuff like that.  By the way, these guys had never even touched a GC controller.  Then one day I let them play it, went to class, then three hours later came back and they were still playing it, while the others were watching them play it.  Now they're hooked, and are almost through the game.  I think this proves the point that Nintendo's image is hurting them, and if they could just get people to give them a fair chance, they'd be in a better situation.


P.S.-Now my friend is thinking about buying a Gamecube.

[VideoGamerX]

I think we (fans of Wind Waker) should stop arguing with those who do not like the game because of its level of difficulty. We shouldn't give them a hard time. My one complaint is the damage reduction in Wind Waker, and this is the main cause for all of the "easy" complaints. There's only been one creature I've met that can kill me quickly (stupid black pig... ).

Sadly, I do feel Nintendo completely geared this game toward kids 10 and under. It's all because of the dumbed down damage reduction. I simply don't get why they let a flaw like this get by. If each monster hit took away even half a heart, the game would play a lot differently. As it is, I can go into a boss fight without any fairies. If I goof off, I'll come away half dead. If each time that boss was hitting me I lost a heart, I guarantee you I'd be going through fairies every couple of minutes. I also admit that a couple of the bosses have been way too easy. I've met some good challenging ones (challenging despite the lack of damage) but some of the others have been utterly disappointing.

People have a right to feel as if this Zelda was completely directed at a younger audience. The look is survivable, but as if that wasn't enough, Nintendo geared the damage down to a point that negates the possibility of dying. Is Nintendo trying to tell us something? It's really kind of inexcusable though I choose to overlook it because it's pure fun.

I still can't get over how I can fall from the top of a cliff and take no damage. I really do wonder... did Nintendo have five year olds in mind as the main audience? Accidents no longer hurt...

[Kimchi]

**remembers Donkey Kong for NES, in which you could fall 6 feet and die**

[RahXephon]

about the difficulty

kids from 4-5 all the way through 30s and 40s are gonna be playing it.  Nintendo probably thought, hmm.. well i dont want kids to not be able to do ANYTHING at all and never beat it, but i dont want adults to just finish it in one sitting.  So i will make the game multi-dimensioned, with exploring everywhere and lots of extra stuff to do.  And since I, THE GAME DESIGNER, LIVE IN JAPAN!!!! I will use the MOST POPULAR FORM OF ART WE HAVE.  ANIME.  and don't tell me its not anime, Kiki's delivery service, my neighbor totoro, princess mononoke, spirited away, even Grave of the Fireflies.  Zelda, to me, should have a cheery and happy attitude.  It is an adventure that you would of dreamed about when you were younger, traveling around, meeting people, finding stuff, and being the hero.  These are the elements that "made" zelda.  The darker atmosphere is, i think, only slightly apparent in OoT, and had it been possible graphically at the time, i believe we would have seen something that looked more like the WW.

I hope they use the cel-shading 100000 more times.  I loved it from the first internet shot.  I thought this book had a great cover.

[Strell]

Rahx,

Come to think of it, I swear Miyamoto has been watching some Miyazaki lately. The little forest creatures?  Right.  He din't watch Mononoke at ALL.

[RahXephon]

i have been saying that from the begining.  Very mononoke feel, but also big spirited away influence it seems, just how it is magical.

anyway, lots of exploring becuase Miyamoto gets all his inspiration form exploring the country areas of his hometown as a child.  I think Link may somehow BE miyamoto.

[RahXephon]

VIDEOGAMER X

you want difficult, dont get any heart containers and still beat the game, now go have fun.  

[Caliban]

Quote
Originally posted by mouse_clicker:
"Hey, are you THE Caliban, from IGN? If so, I hope you can guess who I am."

Sorry to disapoint you but I've never been in the IGN forums, if that's what you were refering to.

[VideoGamerX]

But the heart containers are supposed to be part of the challenge... I'll take your advice, though. The game is very long, and if I ever have the time, I'm sure I'll attempt the game with only 3 hearts (I'm sure it's possible to exit dungeons without taking heart pieces).

This is no different than what I eventually resorted to with LttP (beat it without ever retrieving the masters word ). Yes... that is me bragging for no real reason like the dork I am... but that was the last challenge I found. I hope I get to know OoT and Wind Waker that well.

[Stimutacs Addict]

im just upset about the ending and the damage reduction

SPOILER OF ENDING (ENDING SPOILER) [DONT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETED The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker]

the ending was just too happy after the somewhat darker endings of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.. I think that Hyrule should have come back and then the people should have began to rebuild their kingdom... maybe not .. I guess that would be a happier ending than the real one... lo! why must the Hyrule i love dissapear?

[RahXephon]

the ending should be super happy, like i said, this is an adventure from your childhood, it should be going through the things you dreamed about when turning 4.  Children dont usually think, well the ending to my adventure should be more... dark...  I should be a hero, but not save everything.  To a kid, once the problem is resolved, everyone is happy.  This game trully is an adventure of dreams long forgotten.  Also a kid would never die, there to strong in their dreams.

[GoldShadow1]

"I didn't find anything special about the gameplay, though the gameplay was pretty much irrelevant to me."

That pretty much rules out any valid points you may have had.  You go watch Diablo cut scenes, you'll be fine, kid.

[yellowfellow]

i'm beyond sick with gooddam hippies stating how WW was "so easy" and pure "spoon feeding", yet with Oot it's a different f-ing story... with Navi, how could anyone say that there was any thought about what to do next? "maybe we should go check on the zora", "don't you have something that with get you up there?", "press A when facing a door to open it". some of you have your own opinions which most certainly contrast with my own and that's fine... everyone is entitled to their own thoughts. Lucifer wants a darker Zelda? thats fine... though i agree maybe you should stay away from the zelda series since what you're expecting is quite different from the genre... personally, i've always felt as though zelda was a game about exploring a fantasy world and so WW is beautiful to me... but before alot of you pass judgement on WW, think in relative terms to the other pieces of utter horse$hit they press onto DVDs out there and reevaluate your thinking... not every game can be the next "Oot", which i felt was missing the zelda feeling and thus i didn't enjoy it as much, however, i do respect it is indeed a great fuking game.

["Sky"]

To quote myself from another post on another thread within the same forum...

Quote
I only have a few minor things to add to this conversation... I find it quite interesting that some of you complain about "flaws" in TWW that are apparent in OOT as well. I guess the cel-shading just makes you want to notice the flaws eh?

BTW, I've been playing OOT and TWW back to back and I find OOT's bosses just as easy as TWW's. Ganon in OOT was also quite possibly one of the easiest last bosses I ever fought. I seriously wanted to get hit by that guy cause I was baffled at him. BTW, I never had to use a fairy or a potion in either OOT or TWW.

OOT's dungeons are harder, yes. But not by too much. The only really "tough" dungeon was the Water Dungeon but that was because you had to go through the same thing over and over again. You change the water level, and find out that you have to go all the way around to do it again. The rest of OOT's puzzles weren't really that tough.

This it not a bash towards OOT, I love both OOT and TWW, but I still stand that now that people have a style for the game that they dislike they are going to start pointing out flaws in TWW that they ignored in OOT.

The person above me already mentioned Navi... so no need to sound too much like a broken record

[Gibdo Master]

I don't understand this "the ending was too happy" stuff. I've seen it at quite a few other forums as well. This is the darkest ending to a Zelda game ever in my opinion.

Spoiler Warning



The King dies at the end for cryin out loud. No good character has ever died at the end of a Zelda game. Not only did he die but he basically committed suicide. That's pretty damn dark if you ask me especially when you consider this is a game aimed at all ages. Also Hyrule was destroyed at the end as well. Ganon was damn creepy too at the end. His insanity was practically on the verge of being disturbing. What more do you want? Did you want the whole damn world to blow up at the end or something. Games have to have some sense of completion at the end. You have to have a sense that you saved the day especially with a hero versus bad guy game. The ending reminds me a lot of the ending to Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. At the end Indie's girl dies (the King dies) and they lose the Holy Grail (Hyrule being destroyed) the thing they had been searching for the whole movie. At the very end though they still ride off into the sun set because they made it out alive and saved the world from the bad guys.



 

["Sky"]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master
I don't understand this "the ending was too happy" stuff. I've seen it at quite a few other forums as well. This is the darkest ending to a Zelda game ever in my opinion.

I'm trying to figure that out myself...

Let's see...

SPOILER WARNING FOR THE ENDINGS OF JUST ABOUT EVERY ZELDA!



Legend of Zelda- We save the princess.
Zelda II: Adventures of Link- We waked the princess up.
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past- We saved the whole kingdom and everyone who died is now revived.
Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening- The island is really a dream and it disappears along with all the inhabitants
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time- Everyone celebrates and dances around a campfire. The sages return. Link goes back in time to being a child again in order to reverse what has been undone thereby Hyrule is repaired from Ganon's reign. (hmm...)
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask- Skull kid and Link become friends. Link goes out on his journey again. All the people are happy.
Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons- Celebration at the end of one. Celebration at the end of the other.

Seriously... has there ever been a "dark" ending to Zelda? They've been pretty much all happy with the exception of Link's Awakening. This one was definitely less "happy" than the others. Even so I don't mind it. I mean take this situation: If we win a major war that would determine the fate of the world what would you expect from us? Obviously we'll all be happy and giddy and dancing around partying and celebrating that the world is saved from a terrible fate.

[reyontoyeny]

To me, the Wind Waker had everything that made the past Zelda games great. It provided a sense of exploration. There was a sense that Link started nieve and small but ended with Link mature and brave. Miyamoto said that every Zelda game was about exploring. (Watch the TLC show "GameHeadz") He pretty muched summed up why I loved every Zelda game that I liked. To me the nostalgia didn't much matter since Ocarina was my first Zelda game.

[Hostile Creation]

I thought I was posting this at the end of the first page (didn't realize there were more) but I still want to say this.  Just in case parts confuse you, refer back to page one.

I have to disagree with luciferschild and thecubedcanuck.  I disagree with everything the first one said, but for cubed, while I agree with the graphics, I find the story and gameplay in WW to be amazing.  The storyline makes me grin every time there's a new twist.  I can understand how someone that never played OoT wouldn't fully appreciate the story, but even so, it's still pretty good.  As for it being spoonfed. . . all stories are spoonfed. . . that's the point.  Nearly every book, movie, and video game ever made is 'spoon fed'.  If it weren't, you probably wouldn't understand it.  Metroid Prime is one of the few games I can think of where the story isn't smashed straight through your mouth.  You can completely ignore the plot if you want, and you need to learn stuff to understand it.  But even so, I don't see WW as being obviously spoonfed.  As for gameplay, I love the fighting, and while a good deal of the puzzles are easy, there are enough tricky ones to keep me happy.  I haven't gotten to the cooperative levels, and I'm hoping they'll have some interesting puzzles.  Sailing I don't mind, especially with the warp.  If there's nothing to do while sailing, I'll clean my room or something while I wait; I don't mind, and I can accomplish 2 things at once.  If something attacks me, well, then I DO have something to do.  All the rest I find to be fun.  I played this game for about 6 hours today and I'm still itching to play it.  Very few games have ever done that to me before.

***SPOILERS***
Just a note: In the second trip to the Forsaken Fortress, I thought it was very cool when Valoo and the Ritos came and saved you and Tetra. . . you have friends that help you in all the games, but mainly by giving you items or advice.  This is the one time that I can think of that some friends came and saved you, and it made me feel just plain good.
***END***