Topic: Rate the last TV show you've seen

[oohhboy]

Star Trek: Enterprise

Finally got around to watching it after abandoning it years ago. The first 2 seasons were generally pretty dire with some good episodes like Carbon Creek. The moral conundrums were far too easily solved. If the show was released today it wouldn't have made it to the end of season 1.

It almost becomes a completely new show when season 3 comes round, finally becoming good. It gets morally ambiguous, with a constant tone of desperation coming from the crew as they fight the season long threat. Captain Archer starts having to bend and break his morals in order to complete his mission.

Season 4 abruptly finishes up the Temporal Cold War and starts to force Archer into every important event in history. It is generally ok but misses the mark with the Vulcan arc. The mirror universe episode is fantastic and the last episode was a great send off.

It is a shame it took 2 seasons before they got good, effectively putting Star Trek in a coma for 10 years.

[michaelbaysuperfan616]

Walking Dead was pretty good last night, still had too many conversations that have already been repeated to death but nice to see someone still has a working dick on this show other than poor old Glen.

[Spak-Spang]

I am really liking season 2 of The Flash.  They really do have a good writing team and they are keeping the feel of season 1.  Keeping it light and having fun drama instead of brooding drama like The Arrow.  It is nice that they have separated the feel of both shows.  The last 2 episodes have been great.  I love how they are playing Earth 2 Wells as a jerk but a good guy...instead of a really nice guy that is evil. 

I hope they don't make him have a dark secret that makes him evil...I feel IF they do that it is too predictable.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'm two episodes (out of five) into With Bob And David, and it's pretty much exactly what I hoped it would be. Mr. Show is probably my favorite sketch show ever, and 17 years later they've still got it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Agents of SHIELD was good last night.

Ward and the true History of HYDRA was a nice twist on things.
things should be very interesting leading up to the winter break.

now i need to go finish The Flash, as I fell asleep on it last night (been working 10-12+ hour shifts for most of the last month)

[azeke]

Last two episodes of Arrow despite being usual drama tripe it always was feature one of the best digital camera work i've ever seen.

[Shorty McNostril]

now i need to go finish The Flash

I still think the date with Barry and Patty is the best moment from this season thus far.  Those two are such a great couple.  Whoever decided to bring Patty into the show, and selected the casting needs a big pay rise.

[Spak-Spang]

now i need to go finish The Flash

I still think the date with Barry and Patty is the best moment from this season thus far.  Those two are such a great couple.  Whoever decided to bring Patty into the show, and selected the casting needs a big pay rise.

Seriously...Patty first showed up as a very annoying character, but that date made her less annoying, and anything that can make the Iris and Barry relationship normal is a good thing.  I am sorry, but Barry being in love with basically his sister is weird, and not normal. 

[BranDonk Kong]

The Walking Dead - 8.5/10

Considering we all knew what was going to happen with Glenn, I think they executed it pretty well, how killing the first couple of walkers made a barrier so no others knew he was there, and the almost happy turned into holy fucking **** ending.

[Khushrenada]

Alright. Let's start talking some TV. I've been meaning to do this for awhile but kept putting it off. There are some things I just want to touch on and others I want to get in depth about shows that I'm watching.

First off, Heroes. I have talked about this one already. I still like the show. Even when it gets things all screwed up, I'm still compelled to keep watching to see what happens next. I actually thought the show was doing really well up to the point of June 13 Part 1. It seemed to keep the time travelling free from paradoxes, it wasn't afraid to off characters, it seemed to be plotted pretty well and leading in a good direction while slowly answering the mysteries it created in a pretty satisfactory manner. But then June 13 Part 2 happened and began to undo a lot of that which is a shame because it didn't have to and was close to not doing that but I guess Heroes is gonna be Heroes. I don't expect the ending to be any great resolution to the series as a whole or if it will even be that great as it could have been for just this season but I'm still along for the ride wherever it may lead.

The Last Man on Earth - Shortly after Parks and Recreation ended, Last Man premiered and to my amazement, I'd finally found another comedy that I liked a lot and seemed could be comparable to the highs of The Office and Parks and Recreation. I thought that first Season was great and have recommended it to a lot of people. I admit, I am a big Will Forte fan as well. The concept is so different from most other shows that it helps add to the appeal as well. However, Season 2 has been so-so for me so far. It has its moments and there have been great bits of comedy here and there but the tone of the show has changed a bit since Season 1. S1 was a lot of Forte's character reacting (poorly) to the ever-changing circumstances of life in Tuscan. S2 has been more of Forte's character trying to make amends and be a better person but it hasn't helped keep things at the hilarity that S1 had. It's a hard show to describe sometimes because it has been able to keep changing things up so much and yet in some ways, there is almost a bit of staleness to it as well. It's odd. I still like but I'm just not sure where its going now and if it is ever going to hit the highs of Season 1.

Brooklyn Nine Nine - I feel this is a weaker show than Last Man yet I've still kept watching. I do really laugh aloud much from it but it is pleasant enough. At this point, it seems to have settled into what it will always be and its obviously not going to join the ranks of Parks and Recreation or The Office First 5 seasons in comedy which is too bad as I remember Season 1 seeming to have this potential and it got talked about a lot more back then. Now, no one hardly mentions it. I do find it interesting how they've been able to get so much mileage from Captain Holt's deadpan expressions. You'd think that would have run its course but it still sort of carries this show and keeps me watching because of it. I do find some of the funniest bits to come from when Holt joins in with a Jake Peralta scenario and how Samburg always reacts like his mind is getting blown from Holt participating with him in it. The other great pairing I like is when Holt and Rosa get together as Rosa also keeps her feelings buttoned down. There was a great bit with them this year as Holt helped mentor her in breaking up with his nephew and how to express empathy. So, because of moments like that, I'm still sticking with B99 but if it were to suddenly go off the air, I wouldn't really feel like I was missing anything.

[Khushrenada]

Elementary - On the subject of why I am still watching this show, Exhibit A, Elementary. Elementary is a show that I find wildly swings around in enjoyment levels with the greater portion of it being sort of dull. Part of this comes about from the case of the week episodes which can vary wildly in interest, credibility and convolutedness. Its a show that seems to succeed more on the brief quieter moments in episodes when characters talk to each other about things that don't have anything to do with the case of the week. The growth of the Holmes and Watson relationship and how it has changed them both. The other thing about this show is that once in awhile, it will pull out or incorporate a great idea for the Sherlock lore and mythos/character. I do love how it handled its Moriarty in Season 1. I do like how it was able to show the gradual Holmes and Watson partnership come together in Season 1 and treat Watson as a capable partner and detective which lends it more credibility almost. Not that it seems to be lacking much in the BBC's Sherlock but with the way Elementary has handled it, it's made it seem more natural and real that Watson would begin to learn the detective trade. In some ways, Season 1 is the problem. You could begin to tell it was getting better and better and it seemed to have better cases and a strong ending. Season 2's overall arc was a bit of a dud in the end to me and by the midpoint, the cases started going off into some more ludicrous type grounds. Likewise, Season 3 had a really interesting first half and start with the introduction and character of Kitty but then it resolved that halfway in and then just drifted for the rest of the season. Now with Season 4, we're introduced to something new, Sherlock's dad. And while he is a compelling figure, he's about the only thing I find of any major interest. Since about the midpoint of Season 2, I've been debating about whether to keep watching this show and yet somehow I do. I can only think its because of how when it tries to be, it can make for an interesting Holmes adaptation and it is compelling when it reaches its highs. It's a just the matter of waiting around until it hits them. In the end, I'll stick take BBC's Sherlock over it anytime. Bring on the Sherlock Christmas Special.


Survivor - Survivor seasons vary due to the different contestants that are cast and how the game is played. However, this current season has been a blast to watch so far and has made Survivor one of the top three shows I can't wait to see each week. If you're still a Survivor fan like me, I've got to think you're enjoying it too and wishing more players would play to this potential.


The Amazing Race - Like Survivor, TAR varies Season by Season. I find one of the bigger issues with TAR though can be the challenges they put forth to the contestants. Sometimes, they've just got the players doing pretty boring things that just make any excitement drain out of the show no matter how you may be rooting for the players. This current season started out pretty strong with a pretty big rivalry that was pretty entertaining especially with how much of it has played out so I'm grateful the casting was a bit better this go around and it has made me realize that some of the best seasons I liked were of ones with a couple teams that were just trying to outdo each other so finding a good rivalry like that should be more of a focus for the show. But it is now seeming to get back to boring levels as the rivalry is pretty much over and there's just a lot of sameness with racers placing in the same spots over and over. Shame as I had actually gotten more excited for TAR at the beginning of this season than I had been in quite awhile.

[Khushrenada]

The Flash - Right now, I'd say the Flash is the best of all the DC shows I watch. I guess it shouldn't be a huge surprise since Arrow also went into a strong season 2. It's taken a bit of time to align itself to the new status quo for this season. I must admit, I do sort of miss Eddie even though he really didn't do or accomplish all that much in the first season. Sort of like the Tommy of Arrow. I do find the way they've incorporated and kept Wells around to be a welcome idea. Too often, you either lose that character or villain for the rest of the show (i.e. Eddie) after their big arc is done or else the writers just don't seem to know how to use that character anymore or get anymore growth out of them (i.e. Malcolm Merlyn who has never been handled as well as he was in Season 1). Fortunately, The Flash has been able to successfully work around that by giving us a different Wells who is just as entertaining.

It's additions so far to the cast seem to be working out pretty good as well. Patty Spivot comes off as a much better love interest for Barry than Iris ever did. Sort of like how Felicity and Barry seemed to be better matched. It's kind of frustrating in some ways with how much Season 1 spent of Barry pining for Iris that we see a much better relationship immediately and that Barry and Iris still don't seem to have any great connection with each other. I get that losing Eddie would probably keep Iris from starting any relationship soon but at the same time, the fact that neither of them seem to care about the other romantically is a bit odd considering how much the show would focus on that in Season 1. The way the show wrapped up its cliffhanger from Season 1 was a bit of a disappointment but its momentum to just move forward has helped to dismiss most of the hiccups from that begin aside from the handling of Barry's dad.

I'm quite impressed with how much the show has been handling its effects. King Shark, while brief, was awesome. The confrontation of Zoom also helped make him a more interesting villain for the season. There are still some things that niggle at me about the show. Like, if they got the Reverse Flash costume from the Gideon room, why not check in with Gideon about Zoom or ask it other questions? You've got an advanced A.I. from the future. Why not use it? There are 52 rifts. Why are they not checking them all out or setting up some kind of surveillance on them? Let's only use them when they are needed for a plot device. In the end, the show is just there to have fun and entertain. It's not trying to be Mad Men. So, it is still succeeding on this fact in that it does give me a bit of fun every week that it is on.

[Khushrenada]

Arrow - So far, so good. Arrow seems to have taken a lot of the criticisms it got from Season 3 and set about to make a better show from it. It's got purpose and focus and its been making the right choices with most of the cast as well. When it comes TV reviews, these days, my main source is The AV Club. I find their reviews to often match my takes on shows and they can often provide some interesting points that I may not notice or think about. On that note, I thought their review of episode 1 for this season was pretty spot on when they took a moment to sort of think about the show as a whole and what has led to this point. Rather than sum it up, I would suggest just taking a quick read on it. Here's a link for you to do just that. The key point from that review may be "the narrative formula that had guided the show for much of its first three seasons had probably taken the show as far as it could go."

And I think that's true. The show that Arrow was when it began is pretty much dead. Through cast subtractions and changes of the characters, it has become something else much like Oliver declares himself to be at the start of each episode. This season seems to represent both a new show and a holding over of some past elements. As much as the show kept Oliver grim, he could make a joke and smile every once in a blue moon. Now the show seems finally ready to let that Oliver shine through and show us more of that side while not necessarily losing all the past history and baggage he came with. In some ways, this could make for an interesting contrast where you have a lighter present day Oliver while still keeping a darker, dourer Oliver in the past as that narrative would be leading him in that direction.

The show also seems to be working hard to correct some of the other choices it's made. It introduced the Lazarus Pit last season which led people to wonder why not resurrect Sara? The show finally addressed this and then also promptly shut the door on the whole resurrection thing with Nyssa destroying the pit. (Or at least the only one discovered so far until the writers decide they need a new one. Ha ha ha.) After struggling with keeping the Malcolm character relevant or even workable within the world of Arrow, they may have finally found a way to get some better use out of him by making him the new Ra's Al Ghul. While there are still things about the way that his arc and motivations have been handled, it does seem like the best fit for the character so far since anything they've done with him in Season 1 but he still feels like a character that is a little broken with how he works in the Arrowverse and that may be a problem that can never be solved. Oliver losing his company in Season 2 was an interesting part of the plot in Deathstroke's plan but I'm not sure having Ray buy it and turn it into Palmer Technology was the smart thing to do. In the end, we never saw Oliver suffer much from lack of money amazingly enough but it took something away from the character leaving him the lesser for it. Now, it has been convolutedly given to Felicity yet it kind of works. It gives Felicity something else to do besides hacking for Team Arrow and pining for Oliver. It enriches her character while still giving Oliver a tie to the company again or at least access to funds. Again, a pretty good course correction from part of the Season 3 series of missteps.

Back in Season 2, when Moira Queen was killed leaving Blood to be the only one standing to run for mayor, I thought it might lead to Oliver Queen running in his mother's place as there was a comic storyline of Oliver running for mayor. Having that never happened. Until now. While it seems a bit rough for him to be doing it now, (and I like how its been acknowledged that his past actions like losing his own company would make him a hard sell) it also kind of works with the way the show has handled its politicians and no one really wanting the job. Plus, it again allows Oliver to do something and be something more than just the Arrow and fretting about his vigilante problems and world. It broadens the character.

For the most part, Diggle has been one of the few characters to be handled consistently well. While I found it funny that even his wife who had been kidnapped by Oliver had pretty much let that whole incident go and moved on, he was the only one who wouldn't let it go. The problem with that whole feud is that while I get that it was a personal blow and a boundary crossed by Oliver, at the same time, it never felt like Diggle's family was in any danger or that Oliver would actually carry through on harming them. It always felt like a bluff which is why it was kind of tiring that Diggle couldn't see that or let if go. Fortunately, the show has sort of worked that out and found a new direction for Diggle to take his indignation out on. His brother. Ha ha ha. While the mask did seem stupid in the first episode, I've gotten accustomed to Black Magneto that it doesn't even bother me anymore.

Another common complaint about Season 3 was the lackluster action and it seems again like this season is working to course correct that as well. Last episode had a really interesting couple takes of fight scenes through a handheld camera that you couldn't help but notice with how they stood out from being so different from the rest of the show visually and which helped inject some enthusiasm into the action as well. There are times when I watch this show and roll my eyes at how these characters should all be dead by now. Heck, that rogue policewoman had absolutely no reason to let Oliver live a few episodes again. But episode 1 of season 4 starts out with Laurel and Thea on a motorcycle being shot at with no real protection around them. From the distance they are at with the villain shooting at them, there's no way they should still be alive. Dumb action like that just diminishes the show to me but hopefully this current course correction continues and they focus more on just having a couple good action scenes and less of having plenty of lame and "should be dead" action scenes.

There's more I'd like to get into about Arrow now that I've begun talking about it but I'm going to leave it at that and just plug The AV Club once more by saying that I've really been enjoying their reviews of Arrow so far this year and highly recommend them after watching an episode.

[Khushrenada]

Supergirl - This one is the roughest of the DC shows I watch but then Arrow and The Flash took a bit of time in their first seasons to start gelling. We'll see how things are when we hit the middle of the season as that is when those shows began to find their footing.

While I'm still not sure about the inclusion of Jimmy Olsen, who's name pretty much invokes thoughts of Superman which seems detrimental to a show trying to demonstrate how its hero is different from Superman and their own person, I find the rest of the cast to also give me conflicting opinions. Cat Grant is like a weird hybrid of Perry White and Lois Lane and, despite some recent fleshing out, she just doesn't come across as that believable or likeable or interesting. I just have a hard time buying Kara wanting to stick around in her job with Cat or actually believing it worth her time with all the powers she has in life. From her job performance reviews that we get from Cat, I'm not sure why Cat keeps her around either. I get Superman would sometimes pretend bumble things as Clark to keep people from getting suspicious about him but at the end of the day, he was still doing solid work as a reporter and making a difference that way and getting respected for it. Maybe Lois was the better reporter but its not like he was just sticking around the Daily Planet to get lunch orders. He isn't afraid to use his powers to help him out with his work either. Compare the Clark Kent of the Animated Series or even Lois and Clark with the Kara of this show and it just makes Kara seem kind of sad.

Then there's Kara's IT guy friend who's so memorable that I can not think of his name after watching him in 5 episodes so far. His unrequited love for Kara is already making him stale and he just feels like a poor man's Cisco. He also needs some work but at the same time he feels like a tragic character in the making. I could totally see him becoming a villain from the rejection he gets from Kara. He still comes off as the weirdest choice as being the first person to reveal your super self to and, despite him somehow helping out by creating a super IT room in the building and designing Kara's suit, it just makes Kara's judgement on things questionable. Maybe that's the point, though, as she is struggling to start defining herself and how to handle herself.

As for Kara's sister, who's name I also can't recall, she seems to be the strongest part of the cast taking on the sort of Joe West / Diggle role. However, she hasn't seemed to get the best light so far with being so upset with Kara in the pilot and then feuding away with her mother on Thanksgiving or coming down hard in Kara and her lack of training in episode 2. Although there have been a few moments of her sticking up for Kara or working to help her despite Henshaw's objections, she sort of leaves a sour note when I think of her. She could use some levity or some lighter fare to cover.

As for Henshaw, I recognize the actor from Homeland where he was a dick to the main character so seeing him here gave me a bit of dislike to him also as he plays the some sort of character of a no-nonsense director of an agency of spies. Makes it easier to accept as a villain. In the comics, Henshaw would become the Cyborg Superman. While that might still happen, part of me wonders if there might be some misdirection with his character. The red eyes actually makes me think of Smallville and the Martian Manhunter, John Jones. It would make for the nice comic irony of an alien running the organization that hunts aliens. However, I think if it was supposed to be MM, he'd be going by John Jones. Henshaw seems to already be cybernetic or he could be an alien escapee posing as Henshaw allowing the show to pull a Flash and introduce another Henshaw next season! At least he makes for one of the interesting slow building mysteries for the season.

And I must give the show credit in regards to the villains. While the supporting hero cast may not be as engaging as that of Arrow or The Flash, the villains are starting off quite strong. We've got the is he/isn't he of Henshaw, the simple but effective arc of Fort Roz alien prisoner escapees to deal with led by Kara's Aunt and the poor man's Lex Luthor, Maxwell Lord. I'd say at this point with how he's been set-up and handled as a billionaire tech genius that Maxwell Lord will resemble Luthor more than his comic book self who was the leader of a covert group of spies and the Justice League International before becoming a villain with mind control powers. That's not necessarily a bad thing as the Luther/Superman rivalry has made for plenty of great stories through the years. But I do hope the mind control thing does come into play at some point.

As for Kara's aunt being the villain in charge of the prison, I do like it. It's shades of Zod like so much of the show seems to be making things Superman but different. However, I like that they revealed her so soon to Kara instead of stretching things out ala Dr. Wells / Reverse Flash. I like that connection that when she looks at her, Kara sees her mother and that there is this personal family villain and yet this slight possibility that maybe she can talk Kara to seeing her side of things or joining her like Darth Vader with Luke Skywalker. However, with only one appearance so far, its hard to say ultimately how well of a villain she'll turn out to be or if she even is the main villain. Like Season 2 of Arrow with it's multitude of villains, I'm glad Supergirl is starting out with a smattering of different foes to keep things interesting and it was part of why I thought Arrow Season 2 was so successful.

Last thoughts, one thing I am disappointed about is the handling of Kara's powers. Like Superman is often portrayed, there is no sense of what her limits actually are. She's as strong or as weak as the writers make her at that particular point. As well, the X-Ray vision seems to be handled the same as the Lois and Clark Superman X-Ray vision which is to say, the crazy and impossible kind beyond her just being an alien. Once again, Smallville gets some more respect as a Superman adaption with its depiction of x-ray vision. It's an X-ray not a telescope that you can zoom your focus in and out of all manner of distance. I do like how the show has addressed Superman and his existence even though it wants to distance itself a bit from him. It really can't unless Superman never existed in this world. That said, the balance has worked for me. Finally, of all the depictions I've seen of Supergirl through comics or other media, this show is so far the best at making her a distinct character with her own world, cast and motivations despite the constant similarities to Superman's cast and world. Not sure if that is a good or sad.

[Khushrenada]

Why is no one else talking TV?

Jeopardy - Let's throw this into the mix as well. So, recently, Jeopardy had its Tournament of Champions and it was awesome. The final 3 ended up being the final 3 I had guessed were the strongest possibilities provided they didn't play one or the other in a semi-final elimination game. As it was, they were all spaced out to never face one another until the finals. As it was, the Finals wasn't really that competitive but it was still an awesome match to behold with one player dominating through his run the tournament. Returning to regular Jeopardy has been rather painful the past week and compared to what was showing during the tournament, the contestants have just seemed brainless with all sorts of clues being left on the board at the end of a round and unrevealed. I hate that! That tournament has spoiled my regular Jeopardy viewings right now.


But finally, we come to the show I most want to talk about. My number one and favorite show of the week has become Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and I was definitely not expecting that and I bet many users here wouldn't be thinking that it would be getting my highest recommendation for viewing but I find it bloody brilliant.

When I first heard the name of the show in the fall-time, I thought it was weird idea for a comedy. Then finding out it was a musical comedy seemed even crazier. But crazy is the name of the game with this show. Seeing a commercial for it one night actually left me intrigued about it that I thought it was something I might check out if there was nothing else on. Well, it turned out there was nothing else on! Ha ha ha. Actually, referencing The AV Club, I was surprised to see the pilot get an A- review with the following headline, "Please oh please, don’t let Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’s title deter you. The [fall] season’s most inventive pilot is a whirlwind." This intrigued me so I read and was now more interested in checking out. As it turned out, the station that normally plays Elementary aired the first 3 episodes of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend in the Elementary timeslot until the new Elementary season began. So, I checked it out and was hooked. On Rotten Tomatoes, it has a critical consensus at 96% and an audience consensus of 83%. The scores for the first 7 episodes of the show so far on the AV Club have been A-, B+, B+, A-, B+, A-, and A- respectively. Of the current comedies I watch right now, which admittedly isn't a lot, this is my favorite.

I never got into Glee or Smash but unlike those shows, the songs sung on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are not just popular songs grafted into the show. They are all original made for the show. In addition, most are comedic in nature making them more comparable to Weird Al's orginal songs on his album. In addition, the show is constantly changing up the style and type of song it displays. There's been a county song, French song, rap song, 30's style musical and others. The songs continue to be a highlight of each episode and I marvel at well the show has been able to constantly come up with all this material of songs and at a great consistent level.

It's got a great cast and part of the fun has been meeting more and more of the inhabitants and people that make up West Covina and Rebecca's world. That's not to say the songs are the only source of comedy. There are still plenty of other jokes when not in song which is actually the majority of the episode. I think the songs take a while to perform and edit so they are generally not that long but keeping them short and sweet is probably another reason why they are so successful. Yet, at the same time, the show has an odd heavy undercurrent to it as the main character does seem to suffer in some ways from a mental disorder. It's comes off as very believable depiction despite the heightened reality that the show exists in and yet it's direction and writing is such that you don't feel unease at the performance. It's able to blend comedy and drama so well together and it truly comes off as a unique show. As much as TV is filled with the brilliant but troubled genius type trope, this is something that takes it in a new direction. As the theme song says, "She's so broken inside. The situation is a lot more nuanced than that."

I'll finally be shutting up about TV tonight to go watch the newest episode that airs tonight. But I've just got to do my part and shill for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and get the word out.

And hey, just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, here's one quick little song that appeared on the show. I'd say this is probably a lesser song as there are others I think better than it but I don't want to spoil those as I'd prefer people just watched the show fresh as I've been able to. In this clip, Rebecca is thinking about people she can invite to a house warming party. The episode deals with the trauma she also experienced at another party she had as a young girl so the clip is showing the similarity between the young Rebecca and the older Rebecca. That said, watching it again for the 5th time, the song still makes me smile and laugh. Maybe that's because I have a better context for it but I hope it will still make a good representation without that insider knowledge.

[Plugabugz]

Person of Interest season 5 won't premiere in January after all and will be "announced at a later date".

It's fair to say the show is all but dead at this point (despite season 4 being fantastic) even though the ratings was decent.

[Spak-Spang]

Khush:  Thanks for you analysis of the DC shows.

I must say, I never understood the disappointment in the Arrow seasons.  There was a drop in quality storytelling, but it was never to the point of unwatchable, and the third season was really needed to push the story forward, and try to move Arrow closer to the Green Arrow franchise.  I really hope with the addition of magic and metahumans that trick arrows will begin to be used.  There is no reason not to use them...and it would help Oliver keep his no kill rule now...or rather no kill sorta rule.

The Flash embraces everything about comic books the good and the bad.  The confusing and the silly and it is glorious for it.  I predict it will eventually get too nerdy and difficult for either non-fans or non-comic book fans to follow, but the fact that it is embracing its roots and doing so well is a good sign.

Supergirl is just a weak series.  It has so much potential, but it is going to have to survive this first season and then hopefully the creators will re-evaluate what they are doing.  My biggest problem with the series is that it feels like the designers put a huge paint of estrogen over the Superman mythos.  It really just feels like a female superman and not in a good way.  Kara is just Clark Kent, bumbling assistant at a newsroom looking foolish to confuse people, or worse yet actually is foolish and naive. 

Then there is the fact that everyone must push the female twist to the story.  If the villain is a man they will underestimate Supergirl because she is a woman.  But of course the big bad has to be a woman...it is just too cliche.  I understand why they do it, but it is just annoying that it must be done that way. 

Finally, it is annoying to see the series get all the little details wrong.  Heat Vision should not be white, but red.  Kryptonese is not the but Kyptonian.  You must get the small details right or things just look half-assed.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Finally, it is annoying to see the series get all the little details wrong.  Heat Vision should not be white, but red.  Kryptonese is not the but Kyptonian.  You must get the small details right or things just look half-assed.

Maybe her heat vision is HOTTER than Superman's. Maybe because she is HOTTER than Superman.

[Shorty McNostril]

The show brass actually mentioned that specifically. 

They wanted it blue to differentiate it from "her cousin".

[Khushrenada]

Khush:  Thanks for you analysis of the DC shows.

I do it for you, Spak-Spang. The only person here brave enough to read my walls of text.

I must say, I never understood the disappointment in the Arrow seasons.  There was a drop in quality storytelling, but it was never to the point of unwatchable, and the third season was really needed to push the story forward, and try to move Arrow closer to the Green Arrow franchise.

And now you've got me going off on Arrow some more. Once I start it's hard to stop. Here, have another wall of text.

It wasn't necessarily unwatchable but I did feel the frustrations of others with the way characters were handled and some of the story decisions. I think the biggest things that caused such a backlash were, in no particular order, the slowing of story momentum, having a more insular threat, and weak flashbacks.

If you consider the pace of the show from the middle of Season 1 to the conclusion as a lot of its plot threads started to come together, it gained a better storytelling momentum as it started letting those various dominoes drop. This momentum carried into season 2 when we got introductions to Brother Blood, Isabel Rochev, Sara Lance, Anthony Ivo and others like Nyssa al Ghul or Barry Allen. At the same time as those factors were being introduced, there was the fallout from Season 1 to deal with like Moira's trial, Laurel and Oliver's grieving of Tommy and the eventual incorporation of Roy Harper into Team Arrow.

After setting up the friendship of Oliver and Slade Wilson in Season 1, season 2 brought that friendship to an end and helped make all the flashbacks to that point even more relevant by making Slade Wilson the person orchestrating all the ongoing threats currently in the present. I was concerned about it back when we would talk about season 2 that they may have rushed in using Slade Wilson in the present too soon (and judging with how Season 3 went, I think was right on that prediction) but it was a fun ride at the same time and just kept the show and story going at a fast pace until it finally ended in a way that was mostly predicated by everyone watching yet oddly a little flat. Strangely enough, I think it was the threat of Amanda Waller ready to level Starling City and everyone in it that deflated that ending. We could buy into the League of Assassins working to fight against Slade's Mirakuru army but if they failed, the idea of nuking the city just seemed to preposterous to ever take seriously. It overstretched itself somehow. The flashback ending battle worked for me but the present day somehow didn't

The biggest going into Season 3 was that the show had used up a lot of long gestating plot lines and potential ideas. One of the few things left to explore was the relationship of Thea and Malcolm which had some potential. Then there was Ra's Al Ghul which the show had slowly been building towards with Malcolm mention the League in Season 1 and then Season 2's growth and expansion of the League's elements via Nyssa, Sara and the various foot soldiers shown. The only big problem was that there was no reason for Ra's to currently target Starling City especially when he didn't even approve of Malcolm's levelling the Glades. The other thing was that Felicity had the most chemistry with Oliver so that was an area that could perhaps grow in story potential as well. Yet, none of those things really screams momentum aside from the appearance of Ra's. As for the Flashbacks, they took Oliver off the island so that everything the flashbacks had built up in the past two seasons was gone and that whole part of the story had to start fresh.

Having watched all of Season 3 at the time, when you think of the flashbacks, how would you break down the story to someone? How would you tell it? It can be done particularly if you gloss over a lot of the first half of the flashbacks to just say Oliver gets partnered with Katana's husband and has to work for Amanda Waller to capture a virus. If you think more deeply about the flashbacks though and the details of them and how the whole story plays out, it is a mess. A lot of it is a nonsensical mess. They wanted you to gain sympathy for the Katana family but it never really happened. They telegraphed the outcome of the son's death way to early by the present day versions of those characters and the whole Katana clan was just written poorly, they never really clicked in with the cast and they ultimately didn't contribute much to the Arrow story and season unlike most other characters that have been introduced and used.

[Khushrenada]

That's momentum, weak flashbacks and now the insular threat. It's not necessarily a bad thing but it something that works a bit more in a single or couple episodes than a whole over-arcing season plot. In many ways, we often see the characters deal with an insular threat or life problem every week anyways that they have to conquer or deal with.

It starts with the death of Sara which wasn't the best choice as most fans liked her more than Laurel and after wondering when Laurel would become Black Canary in Season 1, no fans were asking that anymore in Season 2. In fact, there was more requests for Laurel to leave the show probably than for her to become Black Canary. I liked that because it also challenged the fans and there expectations. If someone else could be Black Canary and it was this successful, well then maybe Oliver doesn't have to eventually end up with Laurel and could end up with Felicity. And maybe the show doesn't have to stick that closely to the comic source material to make the fans happy and still be successful. I just like how Season 2 seemed to open up this creative freedom because so many of the decisions made pretty much worked. With the death of Sara and then Laurel working to become Black Canary, it seemed to signal that the source material would, in the end, always be followed or take precedence. So, it was another reason why I was disappointed at Sara's exit.

Anyways, the season starts with the death of Sara. Not exactly a huge threat or something that really affects the city in the long scheme of things but it does set off the various characters on different paths and it is a sort of ongoing mystery that is touched on while dealing with various threats of the week. The big takeaway is that with Sara's connection to the League, it has finally caused Ra's to turn his attention to Starling City if only to honor League code as he does not seem particularly concerned about the actual loss of Sara. The truth is revealed, Oliver goes to save his sister and should pretty much be dead but survives because the show wants to do a twist on fans expectations of expecting the Lazarus Pit to heal Oliver in one of the many cases of these subversions of fan expectations not working as well as the did in Season 2. I would say part of that problem coming from the fact that the subversions or twists never came across as better than what the fans expected would happen whereas the twists actually did surpass what people thought would happen in Season 2.

Again, though, aside from Ra's threatening to hurt Starling City if Sara's murderer isn't brought forth, this whole plotline is only affecting Team Arrow. There are no stakes for the rest of the city. It's part of why just as the Katana clan doesn't mesh well with the crew, Ray Palmer also doesn't quite fit in despite possibly being the best thing about Season 3. He's just there to steal Felicity's heart. He doesn't have much reason to interact with any of the other members of Oliver's world. However, Ray has a secret. He wants to be a superhero after the Arrow helped him. So, eventually, he works his way into joining the crew in his season long arc but the whole Ra's issue really doesn't involve him much since he's joining up so late in that story and is still stuck as just "fighting" Oliver for Felicity and just seems to join the fight against the League because it seems like a good way to please Felicity.

There is some good stuff with Team Arrow learning to grow on their own without Oliver. I liked the incorporation of Thea into Team Arrow. Oliver's protection of Malcolm did start to become a bit weird. Ra's then offering/demaning Oliver become the next Ra's was something I was ok with but as so many people complained about at the time, we were never given any reason as to what the downside would be or why Oliver should refuse the offer. Quentin blaming Oliver for Sara's death and cover up is a bit rough but it does lead to what may be the season 3 highlight when Ra's succeeds in getting the city to turn against the Arrow and Quentin is on fire to hunt him down and end the Arrow saga followed with Team Arrow's plan to save Oliver and end the whole thing. Finally, Oliver agrees to take up Ra's on his offer. Again, these plotlines aren't necessarily bad but most of them don't create that much excitement in a viewer like uncovering Malcolm's conspiracy or Slade Wilson orchestrating a plan of revenge against Oliver. The unevenness of draining Katana son's death from much surprise or drama since you knew it was coming while not giving the viewer any reason to understand or agree with Oliver's decision to refuse Ra's offer until like the last two episodes made the storylines more frustrating. Finally, in the end, it is revealed that Oliver has to destroy Starling City with the virus from the flashbacks (which never explain how Ra's even ended up with the virus in the first place) and that they have to save Starling and stop Ra's. But by then, it is too late for it to mean much. It just feels arbitrary and a desperate ploy to raise the stakes for the finale and quite contrary to the whole season storyline which wasn't about Ra's wanting to destroy Starling City for league business but just about how Oliver is battling over how he thinks he needs to act, how he wants to act and how others think he should act.

In the end, it did bring us to this point where Oliver has seemed to finally learn he doesn't have to be the dark and lonely Arrow he thought he would have to be and that it wasn't the only way to make things work. It's helped lead the cast to better set-ups this season and with the way things have been going, it seems the writers are fixing what ended up not working in Season 3. Flashbacks back on the island, Sara resurrected, Quentin and Oliver beginning to work together again, a more focused threat with Darhk and H.I.V.E. that has stakes for everyone in Star City and improved action. I'm not sure if Arrow can ever recover its momentum from the end of Season 2 but there are signs that this show has quite a bit of life left in it yet.

Enjoy reading that, NWR!

[Plugabugz]

My only two quibbles, which are quite minor, with Arrow season 4 is how two of the three best recurring guest actors (Baron and Conklin) are limited to the island.

Also, the show needs more salmon ladder.

[Stratos]

Thanks for the commentary Khush. It's got me ready to get back into Arrow.


And for the record, I read your walls of text. I just don't always respond. Not much left to say after one of your walls.

[Plugabugz]

And for the record, I read your walls of text. I just don't always respond. Not much left to say after one of your walls.

Same. Although i agree with the AV club reviews being worthy of a read.

[Spak-Spang]

Khush all of that analysis is interesting and has some points.

I haven't seen season 1 I started with season 2, which I thought was an excellent season and showed many character making choices I would have made.  I do understand that Waller wanting to nuke an entire city would be crazy, and that was far-fetched.  Though I wonder if there was a city being taken over by super powered terrorists in America what would the government do to stop it?  A bomb that could be covered up and blamed on terrorists might be the decision made.

But she was obviously being used in that situation to set her up as a big player in season 3.  Actually, season 3s flashbacks were interesting to me.  I thought it was perhaps the strongest part of season 3...I did care about Katana's family and their son.  I enjoyed the different feel of the action and the more spy and espionage elements of the flashbacks.  I enjoyed the not knowing with Amanda Waller was good or bad throughout those flashbacks.  No, to me the Flashbacks were the strongest part of season 3. 

I also understand why they killed Sara.  Without Sara's death then Laurel never becomes Black Canary.  I also like how they solved the idea of there being 2 Black Canaries in the comic book by this sister solution.  I liked the dark story and direction of Lance and Laurel struggling together with grief. 

What I didn't like was the writers never explained why becoming the new Raz Al Ghul was a bad thing for Oliver.  He kept on fighting against it, but you never understood why...if they would of had a conversation about how the current 'Al Ghul wiped out his city and killed all his loved ones then it would have made sense.  One bit of dialog for the audience to understand what was at stake. 

To me season 1 is Revenge
Season 2 is becoming a Hero
Season 3 is The Trial of a Hero and having everything taken from you.
Season 4 is rising accepting your team and rising to be something more.

I am hoping that after this season they skip the flash backs.  I would be curious about attempting a flash forward story.  Perhaps one where Arrow is fighting a villain whose identity needs up being someone personal to him, but he doesn't know it...like Arsenal.