Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii  (Read 8582 times)

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Offline Caterkiller

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The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« on: January 23, 2013, 10:14:59 AM »
So aside from that tech demo which doesn't count for much we have new info on the far off Zelda U title.


Paraphrazed from Nintendo Direct.


1 - the team is thinking of new design philosophies.


2 - A mention of playing alone will be changed. 4 Swords? Tingle Tuner? It's U and Mii playing together! Sigh


3 - They are trying to design a world where you don't beat dungeons in a specific order? Yes!


4 - A non-linear structure is being attempted. According to Aonuma, they are getting back to basics. Something they couldn't do with Skyward Sword.

All of these things sound like this game is starting on the right foot. I said it way back in the GameCube days, but Nintendo is going to be pushing multiplayer Zelda in its main line titles. This is going to be great and I can not wait! I don't care if its 2 human characters or Link with some creature partner with different abilities, this will be a welcome feature as long as the game is completely built with it in mind. My dream co-op setup would be Link on the Wiimote and partner on the Upad.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 10:21:34 AM »
Regarding the multi-player aspect... Although I've had a lot of fun with the Four Swords games, here's what I imagine for a real multi-player Zelda title.

Think of something that's a mix between the Kafei side-dungeon in Majora's Mask and the light/dark world theme from LttP.

You'll have two players (One on the TV, one on the Game Pad... or, perhaps, via online? play?) and you'll both be working through the "same", but different dungeon.  Things I do in mine will effect yours and the other way around.  We'll have to work together to solve puzzles, but I can't just get annoyed by you and go do it all myself. 
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 10:37:50 AM »
That sounds really cool actually. I can tell Co-op is going to be big this gen in Nintendo's main line titles.
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Offline azeke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 10:45:37 AM »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 10:52:26 AM »
I think for nintendo to make the non linear system work it just has to create back doors to different dungeons. These back doors would have to be challenging. Maybe like the huge heart pits Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had. Maybe complicated puzzles or a combination.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 11:02:28 AM »
If Nintendo goes ahead with the out-of-order dungeons, I hope they also consider having each dungeon play differently depending on the order you play them. Using Ocarina of Time as a point of reference, say I complete the Desert Collosuss first and the Forest Temple last, the Forest Temple would feature more obstacles and more difficult enemies since I would have more heart pieces and better items and such.

As for co-op, I would only ever accept Zelda as the second playable character because I don't care about the other ones. And really, I wouldn't want her to control as female Link; she would need her own play style.

I'm skeptical of Aonuma claiming they're planning on making changes because everytime someone says that, the games play it pretty close to the Zelda formula. Now, before Luigi Dude goes on an explicative laden rant, I'm not saying that's necessarily a good or bad thing. For all the changes that were made in each installment, the games have always ulimately played like Zelda so I expect no different here. For better or worse, Nintendo likely won't revamp the entire series so anyone expecting Zelda May Cry or Hyrule Fantasy XIII should temper their expectations.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 11:11:45 AM »
I think for nintendo to make the non linear system work it just has to create back doors to different dungeons. These back doors would have to be challenging. Maybe like the huge heart pits Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had. Maybe complicated puzzles or a combination.

I'm picturing a Mega Man-esque style where beating the dungeons in a particular order get you powerups/weapons that make the next one easier... but, if you want to beat them out of order, you can.  It just might be harder to kill enemy X with regular arrows vs. fire arrows.

Heck, imagine a game where you can walk right into the final dungeon and face Ganon...  I mean, he'll likely kill you in two seconds flat... :D

Ohh... you know how Ganon just sits and plays with his organ, waiting for Link to come?

What if, depending on the order you beat the levels in, Ganon gets powered up.  Maybe he even goes into some of the dungeons and gets the weapons before you if you don't beat them in time... and uses them against you!
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 11:17:28 AM »
ohh....ohhh.... After Ganon kicks your ass with the hookshot he got from the secret Goron dungeon, you can try to beat him again....


....or play the Ocarina of Time to go back to before he got it from the dungeon and get it yourself (i.e.: load a save-state) instead of getting the water arrows from the Zora dungeon...

...except now, when you face Ganon, he's got your water arrows... :D
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 11:56:39 AM »
that was the concept of my joke game Rival. I just made a video teaser. The idea was there was a game to beat, however there was a Rival character also trying to beat the game at the same time. To some extant there would be redundant dungeons and redundant items so the game could never become unbeatable.

the music is off because Youtube said my public domain version of Dies Irae was infringing...so i changed it to another version of Dies Irae.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 12:04:58 PM »
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 12:28:59 PM »
Guessing its going to be closer to Skyrim/Dragon's Dogma/fable while keeping what makes it Zelda intact.
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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 12:30:46 PM »
I think the idea of an open world zelda where you can tackle objectives as you wish sounds very good indeed, although some linearity is always needed for the sake of the story, something in the line of Wind Waker in terms of exploration taken to the next level with Wii U's capabilities would be nice.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 02:42:48 PM »
I don't like the multiplayer talk.  I like Four Swords but I don't want that for the main series.  Zelda being a single player adventure is part of its very appeal to me.  We're in an era where companies like EA and Activision just want online multiplayer games that rubes buy annual updates to.  Zelda is probably the best single player game series out there and I don't want that part of it to change.  It's bad enough that good single player gameplay is starting to feel like an endangered species.

Nintendo is acting like doing dungeons out of order is some big thing.  You could do out of order dungeons in the original Zelda and in A Link to the Past.  In LttP, you could go in the dungeon, get the item and then use it to access new parts of the world without beating the dungeon.  Zelda 1 relied even less on the items and used the general difficulty of the dungeon enemies to discourage out-of-sequence play.  The reason you can't do this in later Zeldas is because it isn't just the items you have that indicate if you can proceed.  So many things are triggered by cutscenes and such that require things be done in order.  Ease up on the little cutscenes and just let the player play and you'll find that it will be much easier to open the game up.

On a side note, I actually am kind of tired of the amount of cutscenes ANY game has these days.  We were all really impressed by this stuff in the 32/64 bit generation because it was something that could not really be done before.  But now it has no wow factor and just slows everything to a crawl.  Just having things happen in the game, like they did in the 2D era, without switching to some little mini-movie, would help a lot of games.

These days Zelda games seem to take forever to get to the real gameplay so that has to change for any real idea of non-linear gameplay to happen.  A good first party inspiration could be Xenoblade.  The game pretty much lets you go anywhere from the start, if you want and has so many side quests that you can pretty much **** around all you want.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 03:11:15 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

IS IT SO HARD TO ASK FOR A ZELDA GAME THAT HAS ROBUST MULTIPLAYER, VOICE ACTING ESPECIALLY FOR LINK, 20000+ HOUR LONG GAMEPLAY, 1:1 SWORD COMBAT WITH IR POINTER CONTROLS FOR THE BOW & HOOKSHOT, A STEAM PUNK SETTING OF A FUTURE HYRULE WITH A BOSS THAT ISN'T GANON, MORE SIDEQUEST BUT A BIGGER FOCUS ON DUNGEONS, RPG ELEMENTS LIKE LEVELING UP WEAPONS AND A PARTY SYSTEM, A LOVE SCENE BETWEEN LINK AND ZELDA AND ISN'T LINEAR AND DOESN'T RELY ON THE SAME TIRED FORMULA, WITHOUT TAKING AWAY WHAT MAKES A ZELDA GAME A ZELDA GAME?!?

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Offline TrueNerd

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »
Nintendo will NEVER please all of its Zelda fans. Too many people want different things. They just have to do what they want to do and people gotta deal with it.

Offline SixthAngel

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 05:16:31 PM »
Did none of you even play Nintendoland?

Expect the multiplayer to be like that except your character is no longer on rails.  One person (or maybe 4?) fights with the Wii remote weapons like the sword while the other uses the gamepad for arrows and other ranged weapons.  As we saw with RESORT and Skyward Sword Nintendo takes new gameplay and control ideas from "Mii games" and expands on them.

It sounds awesome to me because it is something I just asked for in the Nintendoland thread.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 05:38:34 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

Ultimately a really talented game developer doesn't cater to the conflicting whims of the fanbase but rather makes the game that everyone actually wanted all along but didn't know it.  Like us fans might have difficultly conceptualizing exactly what we want but would know it if we saw it and can tell when something isn't it.

Frankly I don't think Nintendo has really tried all that hard to innovate in Zelda since the N64 anyway.  TP is a rather blatant cookie cutter game.  The other console games rely too much on a single superficial element to make the experience appear fresh.  With WW they figured that a new graphic style would be the solution and with SS it was motion control.  Take those out and those games are really not that different from TP.  Nintendo has gone for the quick fix, which hasn't worked, when they really need to rebuild from the ground up.

SS puts more effort in than others but the game is FULL of blatant padding.  They probably spent too much time tweaking the motion controls to really finish the game properly within any decent timeframe so they had us revisit the same areas multiple times.  As a result the new ideas seem half-baked.  Having more dungeon-esque areas leading to the proper dungeons seems less like a cool new idea and more like Nintendo covering for the game having no interesting NPC areas to visit beyond the main town.

The Wii itself was pretty much Nintendo assuming that motion control would do the innovation for them and that they could freshen up every franchise by just using that feature.  And that was a naive idea and it didn't work.  There is no quick fix like that.

It's got to be from the ground up, not just "OoT only with element X!"

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
To riff off of Ian a bit, I agree that the post Ocarina games have largely been reiterations of OoT. (Although I think Wind Waker's aesthetics and ocean structure are probably radical enough to count as new things.) But, as has been said before, this is the curse of OoT, which basically invented a large percentage of what's taken for granted in 3D games, more so than Mario 64, given the death of the platformer.  But like Ian, I too feel like AAA single player experiences are a dying form, and I'm not sure how much different a single-player focused Zelda game can be from that tradition. In a way, changing it up from OoT is like trying to reinvent the wheel.

That being said, reinventing the wheel should be the job. It occurred to me a while ago now that modern Zelda and Metroid share similar design skeletons: explore world in a general order with plenty of optional distractions, obtain items/powers, return to previous areas to unlock doors/access power-ups, etc. Given this fundamental similarity, it would take something quite startling to reincarnate Zelda (or Metroid) differently. I am super open to whatever they come up with, but I also fear that this could be Nintendo's first big reboot ****-up.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 09:53:41 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

The problem is if you ask ten different Zelda fans what direction the series should go in and what their ideal Zelda game would entail, you'd get ten radically different answers. Nintendo needs to get back to their old model of saying "To hell with what the fans want" and making a game that's awesome and fresh that no one knew they wanted.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 09:55:51 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

The problem is if you ask ten different Zelda fans what direction the series should go in and what their ideal Zelda game would entail, you'd get ten radically different answers. Nintendo needs to get back to their old model of saying "To hell with what the fans want" and making a game that's awesome and fresh that no one knew they wanted.

Yes please. I trust them to, let's do this!
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 09:56:34 PM »
wait, wouldn't a multiplayer Zelda game be awesome. I already know co-op zelda is awesome...but what about versus? Or both :D

and the type of gameplay we're talking about is called "gated access" innovated by Haunted House on Atari
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:00:48 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 09:58:49 PM »
wait, wouldn't a multiplayer Zelda game be awesome. I already know co-op zelda is awesome...but what about versus? Or both :D

1:1 duals wouldn't feel as cool as they should for a Zelda game, and unless it's a Crossbow Training type FPS, I don't see how a versus game would work other than the simple Four Swords type stuff where you battle for rupees, and that wouldn't feel like a full fledged game, just a drawn out mini-game.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 10:04:14 PM »
you wouldn't want that to be the whole game. you would just have that as an alternate multiplayer mode that would be a distraction from the main game. 4 player split screen game where all the controlls of Zelda are put to the test. It would be somewhat of an fps, but you're using arrows with small magazines, so sword play would kick in.

does Crossbow training have an FPS? i didn't play most games on Wii because I was broke.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 10:09:41 PM »
I have no clue I never picked it up, but I'd assume for a full multiplayer mode, it would have to be FPS rather than the (and I'm assuming here) shooting gallery that is Crossbow Training.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2013, 10:11:00 PM »
thats what I thought it was...like duck hunt with link...and or what i play when the fair comes to town.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 12:02:47 AM »
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Offline kraken613

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 01:19:40 AM »
You'll have two players (One on the TV, one on the Game Pad... or, perhaps, via online? play?) and you'll both be working through the "same", but different dungeon.  Things I do in mine will effect yours and the other way around.  We'll have to work together to solve puzzles, but I can't just get annoyed by you and go do it all myself.

What if they had "Journey esque" multiplayer. It would fit in well with how Nintendo does online.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 07:04:20 AM »
I still don't get were people are getting this multiplayer idea from.  Aonuma's comments about what it means to play alone sound more like he's they're going to fix the partner hint system since people have complained about Fi the most in Skyward Sword.

Basically if they're going back to basics of the original Zelda with non linear dungeon progression, then they might be getting rid of your partner or at least changing it so they're not constantly telling you what to do like most in the other 3D Zelda's have.  Making it more like the older 2D Zelda games were you have no partner telling you what to do all the time.

That what it seems like to me because I doubt Nintendo would take one of their most successful single player series, and suddenly make it more multi-player focused.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 08:14:32 AM »
I doubt Nintendo would take one of their most successful single player series, and suddenly make it more multi-player focused.
That's true. It's like if they did that with Mario or something...........

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2013, 11:11:48 AM »
I still don't get were people are getting this multiplayer idea from.  Aonuma's comments about what it means to play alone sound more like he's they're going to fix the partner hint system since people have complained about Fi the most in Skyward Sword.

Basically if they're going back to basics of the original Zelda with non linear dungeon progression, then they might be getting rid of your partner or at least changing it so they're not constantly telling you what to do like most in the other 3D Zelda's have.  Making it more like the older 2D Zelda games were you have no partner telling you what to do all the time.

That what it seems like to me because I doubt Nintendo would take one of their most successful single player series, and suddenly make it more multi-player focused.

I don't see why both options can't apply. Ever since the Tingle Tuner or was it 4 Swords on the GBA? Either way they've shown some interest in a multiplayer Zelda. They've come a long way with it in Mario and even tried it twice in 3D Mario. I just feel like this is the natural evolution for Nintendo's franchises. Having just one more player on the adventure seems do well for sales and I'm sure they see that.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2013, 01:48:42 PM »
I still don't get were people are getting this multiplayer idea from.  Aonuma's comments about what it means to play alone sound more like he's they're going to fix the partner hint system since people have complained about Fi the most in Skyward Sword.

Basically if they're going back to basics of the original Zelda with non linear dungeon progression, then they might be getting rid of your partner or at least changing it so they're not constantly telling you what to do like most in the other 3D Zelda's have.  Making it more like the older 2D Zelda games were you have no partner telling you what to do all the time.

That what it seems like to me because I doubt Nintendo would take one of their most successful single player series, and suddenly make it more multi-player focused.

I never for a second even thought of that until you pointed it out.  Still if you said "play alone" I would assume you meant playing alone with no other real people involved, instead of videogame characters.

Nintendo is also nutso about the Miiverse and they made Mario multiplayer.  They're really into the idea of gamers communicating or whatever these days.  So I naturally make the assumption that somehow they're going to tie in the Miiverse of have somebody else using the Gamepad or something like that.

I don't even think of Zelda games having partners, even though every single 3D one has it.  I guess that just shows how unnecessary that concept has been, that I would pretty much forget about it.  Part of Navi's design was to disguise the targetting as something within the game world, which was a clever idea.  Yet now they don't try to disguise the targetting but have kept in the annoying nag sidekick.  Seems like someone lost track of the original purpose along the way.

These four player FPS ideas sounds so unappealing to me.  That seems so far removed from Zelda gameplay, why would that even make sense?

Offline nickmitch

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2013, 02:24:56 PM »
I just want to be surprised. I almost don't care how. I just want one moment in the game where I'm like "Woah, holy ****!" and I'll be happy.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »
When I look at this new Monolithsoft game that sense of epic scale is what I would like for Zelda. Being able to ride a horse or flying a bird across a landscape like that would really feel adventurous. It doesn't have to be barren either, just wide enough to feel like a real world with caves, towns shrines and other puzzly things scattered about. There could be big open Xenoblade areas and then dense SS like areas that require a lot of puzzles to make it out of but not a full on dungeon.

Xenoblade has a LOT of open space to explore, but there are actual places of interest that can be found if you keep following that scary cliff side. That sense of discovery has been lost to me in just about every 3D title. They are there sure, but most of the time you have to go that way to beat the game. There are caves in Xenoblade with monsters hanging out in that I saw from a distance but never found. It gives such a sense of wonder.  It's nice finding massive areas that aren't required to beat the game but can still enhance your adventure in a major way.


Imagine that zany curvy landscape from Xenoblade, those mountainous portions, then imagine places to hook shot underneath leading to a completely optional maze within the mountain? Or the ocean looks so far out you would never take the time to cross it, for fear of time or maybe big whale monsters eat you. But one day you just decide to see what's out there and make it past all the sharks to find a pea sized desert island rescuing some stranded pirate who has a really neat optional weapon?
 
I would argue Banjo and Kazooie gave off more of a mysterious aura to its areas.


I would love to fly again on a bird, preferably an owl or eagle but just looking at this new Monolith game with the mech transportation and I'm reminded of how I imagined skyward sword to be. When Iwata hinted we would be flying  thought he meant flying over herds of animals ad crossing bodies of water.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2013, 11:16:00 PM »
Caterkiller reminded me of last summer's trip to Ecuador and we wound up in some nature park that resembles the rainforest (which wasn't far off I believe) and there was a path along a smal clif side maybe 10 feet up from a, i believe, shallow river. I decided to take that path and see how far I could get, there were some really small spaces where I didn't think I could find footing, especially on some of the wet rocks.. I mean, even if I fell in and it was shallow, I don't know whats in that water! I don't just mean fish either, like parasites or bacteria and **** would be awful!

At one point I wanted to turn back but said **** it, when was I ever going to go on this mini-adventure near the rain forest again? Exactly. There was one moment where i had to grab on to some protruding roots from the side of the cliffside and I was *this* close to slipping off. It was just before this steep little incline, so narrow I had to put one foot directly in front of the other, but I got through it and before long I was on level ground and caught up with the family.

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2013, 01:53:01 PM »
When I look at this new Monolithsoft game that sense of epic scale is what I would like for Zelda. Being able to ride a horse or flying a bird across a landscape like that would really feel adventurous. It doesn't have to be barren either, just wide enough to feel like a real world with caves, towns shrines and other puzzly things scattered about. There could be big open Xenoblade areas and then dense SS like areas that require a lot of puzzles to make it out of but not a full on dungeon.

When OoT came out, the world was not that big but was big enough to impress for the time.  My natural assumption was that it was entirely because of hardware restrictions and that was the widest scope they could do at the time and that in later generations Hyrule would get much bigger.  But it didn't really and it wasn't until Xenoblade where I really felt like I was getting the kind of scale I expected out of later Zelda titles.

I wonder if my assumptions and EAD's intentions are different and only appeared to correspond on the N64.  I saw OoT and MM as the most ambitious world you could make in a videogame at the time.  Perhaps EAD saw it as exactly the kind of scope they wanted and had no desire to go further.  Hell, I notice that with EAD in general.  On the N64 it seemed like they pushed the graphics in each game but on the Cube EAD seemed content to reach that Mario Sunshine kind of level and go no further, and they really haven't since.  What I saw as "push the envelope regarding graphics" was really just them pushing it until they got to their ideal (and that probably played a major part in the Wii's hardware being so weak; the big shots at Nintendo like Miyamoto had reached their personal graphics peak and had little incentive to use better hardware).

For me Zelda is about epic ambition in videogame design but for Miyamoto it may have entirely been about him bringing his childhood memories of cave exploration to videogame form and he accomplished that a long time ago.  The ambition and innovation was merely necessary to achieve his goal, while I though ambition and innovation WAS the goal.

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2013, 10:55:55 PM »
Caterkiller reminded me of last summer's trip to Ecuador and we wound up in some nature park that resembles the rainforest (which wasn't far off I believe) and there was a path along a smal clif side maybe 10 feet up from a, i believe, shallow river. I decided to take that path and see how far I could get, there were some really small spaces where I didn't think I could find footing, especially on some of the wet rocks.. I mean, even if I fell in and it was shallow, I don't know whats in that water! I don't just mean fish either, like parasites or bacteria and **** would be awful!

At one point I wanted to turn back but said **** it, when was I ever going to go on this mini-adventure near the rain forest again? Exactly. There was one moment where i had to grab on to some protruding roots from the side of the cliffside and I was *this* close to slipping off. It was just before this steep little incline, so narrow I had to put one foot directly in front of the other, but I got through it and before long I was on level ground and caught up with the family.

Good times :D

one time i was camping and i split up from my group, and then i got stuck on a steep hillside overlooking a rocky cliff. It took 20 minutes to clmb my way back up to safety.  I felt like a turtle exposed. The adrenaline rush however was quit invigorating.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2013, 11:37:52 PM »
When I look at this new Monolithsoft game that sense of epic scale is what I would like for Zelda. Being able to ride a horse or flying a bird across a landscape like that would really feel adventurous. It doesn't have to be barren either, just wide enough to feel like a real world with caves, towns shrines and other puzzly things scattered about. There could be big open Xenoblade areas and then dense SS like areas that require a lot of puzzles to make it out of but not a full on dungeon.

When OoT came out, the world was not that big but was big enough to impress for the time.  My natural assumption was that it was entirely because of hardware restrictions and that was the widest scope they could do at the time and that in later generations Hyrule would get much bigger.  But it didn't really and it wasn't until Xenoblade where I really felt like I was getting the kind of scale I expected out of later Zelda titles.

I wonder if my assumptions and EAD's intentions are different and only appeared to correspond on the N64.  I saw OoT and MM as the most ambitious world you could make in a videogame at the time.  Perhaps EAD saw it as exactly the kind of scope they wanted and had no desire to go further.  Hell, I notice that with EAD in general.  On the N64 it seemed like they pushed the graphics in each game but on the Cube EAD seemed content to reach that Mario Sunshine kind of level and go no further, and they really haven't since.  What I saw as "push the envelope regarding graphics" was really just them pushing it until they got to their ideal (and that probably played a major part in the Wii's hardware being so weak; the big shots at Nintendo like Miyamoto had reached their personal graphics peak and had little incentive to use better hardware).

For me Zelda is about epic ambition in videogame design but for Miyamoto it may have entirely been about him bringing his childhood memories of cave exploration to videogame form and he accomplished that a long time ago.  The ambition and innovation was merely necessary to achieve his goal, while I though ambition and innovation WAS the goal.

I remember when playing WW setting sail in the King of Red Lions for the first time attempting to make it to the next island. Because the actual sea was so huge and we had the power of the GameCube I honestly thought a huge island would be waiting on the other end. Who were those bird people, the Rito? Once I made it there and then later passed one of those nickel sized islands I realized the world would more or less be smaller than OoT or MM. As much as I loved Skyward Sword and enjoyed TP the first time through, I feel at this point the scale of Zelda is as good as its ever going to get. Of course I can't see the future so hopefully we will get surprised.

I liked that SS's Hyrule Town seemed to be hustling and bustling with people, even if half of them didn't speak to you, it felt like a living town. I just hate that there is never more than one major town. The Zora seem to all share the same big hole in the ground filled with water, and the gorons just live in hole in the side of the mountain. They all just sleep on the ground and it never seems like they have individual lives like the humans. Of course there are exceptions where the Elders are housed and so on, but I never get a sense that anyone lives anywhere.

I'd love a huge grid the size of WW or Xenoblade but with lots of places of interest and more big towns with more people throughout. Nintendo does seem to listen to our cries on message boards and Nintendo club surveys, I figure asking for epic scale the similar to Xenoblade couldn't hurt, but at the same time we have to let them know there has to be something to do in these open areas.

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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 08:36:57 PM »
At some point I wonder what a Zelda game by the assassin's creed team would be like. Sure it would need to have Zelda like controls and story, but one thing the Assassin's creed people do well is make a big world with lots of detail and lots of npcs. Nintendo was talking about working with partners. It would be interesting for say Ubisoft to handle the world and Nintendo to handle the dungeons. The best Zelda game(not counting SS because i haven't played it) for cities would be Majora's mask. I loved that the city was so interactive and the npcs all had personalities and a story. It was a game where the sidequests for me were more of a goal of the game then the actual main quest.
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Offline AnGer

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2013, 03:18:16 AM »
I would also like to see a different team's approach on the Zelda franchise, even better if it were one that has never been working with Nintendo before. Or just let Retro Studios do their thing.

Also, I'd love to see them making a differen combat system. Nothing like what we see in God of War or Darksiders, but at least make combat feel like you need to struggle with the enemies around you instead of just "block and hit".
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 03:27:17 AM by AnGer »

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2013, 03:23:32 AM »
As great as a Retro-made Zelda would probably be, if they're not doing a new IP like they should be I'd much rather them do Star Fox than Zelda or Metroid.
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Offline AnGer

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2013, 06:54:27 AM »
Yes, working on an all-new IP really is what Retro should do first and foremost. But really, the next thing they should make is Zelda.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2013, 03:04:40 PM »
I have this feeling that someday Retro is going to leave Nintendo in some way (assuming they even can since they're first party) or have a major chunk of their core employees split off to form their own company, and then release some killer game of their own IP that becomes some huge hit for some other company, while Nintendo misses out having spent their entire time with Retro insisting on using existing IP.  It will also come to light that Retro pitched the new megahit IP to Nintendo many times and had it turned down in favour of working on Mario Kart tracks or some ****.  And the game will not be released on Nintendo consoles, even if it is third party.

Their first game came out TEN YEARS AGO and we have yet to see anything from them that was not already an existing Nintendo franchise.  Yet we still call for them to make Star Fox and Zelda.  Some day what I described above is totally going to happen and Nintendo is going to look like dumb assholes.  It's the perfect poetic justice for the situation.

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2013, 03:09:55 PM »
The people at Retro seem happy doing what they are doing. Hell, even the employees that HAVE left Retro just keep doing the same thing (343 Industries is filled with ex-Retro employees and Halo 4 is essentially a Metroid Prime clone).
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Offline azeke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2013, 04:11:32 PM »
have a major chunk of their core employees split off to form their own company,
That happened already at least once. Retro goes through major staff reshuffling after almost every release. Exoduses between MP1 and MP2 and the one before DKCR were particularly big as far as i remember.

It will also come to light that Retro pitched the new megahit IP to Nintendo many times and had it turned down in favour of working on Mario Kart tracks or some ****.
Also happened at least twice as far as we know.

For someone who speaks of Retro so highly, Ian doesn't know even the most basic facts about it.

I am not even that crazy about Retro
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 04:14:36 PM by azeke »
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2013, 05:40:01 PM »
There will always be those employees who just can't stand anything they do but it's all they got so they keep showing up. I can't see Retro as we know it splitting from Nintendo and then making a 3rd party game with no Nintendo version. If that happens Retro would more or less be the new and current Rare, at that point their game will do nothing for nobody.

If we didn't get word from Retro themselves about wanting to do DKC then I would think you were on to something. I would absolutely love something new from them, but if I had to choose Metroid and DK being left in obscurity or a new IP from them in the last 10 years then I would choose Metroid and DK any day. Of course that's all hypothetical fanfiction.

I'm glad Metroid and DK are established franchises again, if they end up rebooting Star Fox wonderful! I don't doubt they will have something new for us eventually, I say just give it time. I honestly believe this is the generation we see their own IP as well.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2013, 06:38:32 PM »
It will also come to light that Retro pitched the new megahit IP to Nintendo many times and had it turned down in favour of working on Mario Kart tracks or some ****.
Also happened at least twice as far as we know.

For someone who speaks of Retro so highly, Ian doesn't know even the most basic facts about it.

I am not even that crazy about Retro

How did my hypothetical megahit new IP that does not actually exist already get turned down by Nintendo twice?  How is that fact?  I know Nintendo cancelled some ideas from Retro early on but we don't know if they were truly any good.  We can only "know" this after it happens.

I'm glad they worked on the Metroid Prime games but couldn't give two shits if DKC Returns ever existed or not since Nintendo was going nuts on retro 2D platformers on the Wii anyway so DK being dormant does not deny me of any specific gameplay style.  The guys make great games and would probably do a great job of Zelda, but their games are good enough that I can't believe that they're content with just working with existing Nintendo IP the whole time.  No way do they make the great games they do without creativity and creative people don't like to play it safe the whole time.  Creative talent wants to try new things and challenge themselves.  Though if given enough leeway they could satisfy those creative urges within an existing IP.

Getting back to Zelda I would rather see Retro's take on it, than see them go back to Metroid or make another DKC while EAD churns out another Zelda that's decent but doesn't really stand out.

Offline azeke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2013, 10:57:38 PM »
How did my hypothetical megahit new IP that does not actually exist already get turned down by Nintendo twice?  How is that fact?
It's not a fact. It's your desire to see Nintendo's getting TOLD, because... because clouds in the sky, i guess.
It IS a fact that Nintendo denied Metroid Dread and Sheik game, though. That wasn't early at all.

Also that dudebro FPS that guys who eventually left before DKCR wanted to make.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2013, 11:00:32 PM »
This is the first I have hear of a Sheik video game. And the only appearance of "Metroid Dread" was a listing in Nintendo Power of E3 games (which they later said was a mistake).
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2013, 12:28:15 PM »
I never heard about Metroid Dread being associated with Retro.  I thought it was the assumed follow-up to Metroid Fusion which would be made by R&D1.

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2013, 01:41:50 PM »
I think some people associated Dred with Retro because of the name coming up in one of the Prime games on some computer terminal.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2013, 02:57:03 PM »
I think the thing there was Retro heard the same rumors we did and threw the reference in there as a joke.
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