Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii  (Read 8595 times)

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Offline Caterkiller

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The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« on: January 23, 2013, 10:14:59 AM »
So aside from that tech demo which doesn't count for much we have new info on the far off Zelda U title.


Paraphrazed from Nintendo Direct.


1 - the team is thinking of new design philosophies.


2 - A mention of playing alone will be changed. 4 Swords? Tingle Tuner? It's U and Mii playing together! Sigh


3 - They are trying to design a world where you don't beat dungeons in a specific order? Yes!


4 - A non-linear structure is being attempted. According to Aonuma, they are getting back to basics. Something they couldn't do with Skyward Sword.

All of these things sound like this game is starting on the right foot. I said it way back in the GameCube days, but Nintendo is going to be pushing multiplayer Zelda in its main line titles. This is going to be great and I can not wait! I don't care if its 2 human characters or Link with some creature partner with different abilities, this will be a welcome feature as long as the game is completely built with it in mind. My dream co-op setup would be Link on the Wiimote and partner on the Upad.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 10:21:34 AM »
Regarding the multi-player aspect... Although I've had a lot of fun with the Four Swords games, here's what I imagine for a real multi-player Zelda title.

Think of something that's a mix between the Kafei side-dungeon in Majora's Mask and the light/dark world theme from LttP.

You'll have two players (One on the TV, one on the Game Pad... or, perhaps, via online? play?) and you'll both be working through the "same", but different dungeon.  Things I do in mine will effect yours and the other way around.  We'll have to work together to solve puzzles, but I can't just get annoyed by you and go do it all myself. 
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 10:37:50 AM »
That sounds really cool actually. I can tell Co-op is going to be big this gen in Nintendo's main line titles.
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Offline azeke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 10:45:37 AM »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 10:52:26 AM »
I think for nintendo to make the non linear system work it just has to create back doors to different dungeons. These back doors would have to be challenging. Maybe like the huge heart pits Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had. Maybe complicated puzzles or a combination.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 11:02:28 AM »
If Nintendo goes ahead with the out-of-order dungeons, I hope they also consider having each dungeon play differently depending on the order you play them. Using Ocarina of Time as a point of reference, say I complete the Desert Collosuss first and the Forest Temple last, the Forest Temple would feature more obstacles and more difficult enemies since I would have more heart pieces and better items and such.

As for co-op, I would only ever accept Zelda as the second playable character because I don't care about the other ones. And really, I wouldn't want her to control as female Link; she would need her own play style.

I'm skeptical of Aonuma claiming they're planning on making changes because everytime someone says that, the games play it pretty close to the Zelda formula. Now, before Luigi Dude goes on an explicative laden rant, I'm not saying that's necessarily a good or bad thing. For all the changes that were made in each installment, the games have always ulimately played like Zelda so I expect no different here. For better or worse, Nintendo likely won't revamp the entire series so anyone expecting Zelda May Cry or Hyrule Fantasy XIII should temper their expectations.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 11:11:45 AM »
I think for nintendo to make the non linear system work it just has to create back doors to different dungeons. These back doors would have to be challenging. Maybe like the huge heart pits Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had. Maybe complicated puzzles or a combination.

I'm picturing a Mega Man-esque style where beating the dungeons in a particular order get you powerups/weapons that make the next one easier... but, if you want to beat them out of order, you can.  It just might be harder to kill enemy X with regular arrows vs. fire arrows.

Heck, imagine a game where you can walk right into the final dungeon and face Ganon...  I mean, he'll likely kill you in two seconds flat... :D

Ohh... you know how Ganon just sits and plays with his organ, waiting for Link to come?

What if, depending on the order you beat the levels in, Ganon gets powered up.  Maybe he even goes into some of the dungeons and gets the weapons before you if you don't beat them in time... and uses them against you!
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 11:17:28 AM »
ohh....ohhh.... After Ganon kicks your ass with the hookshot he got from the secret Goron dungeon, you can try to beat him again....


....or play the Ocarina of Time to go back to before he got it from the dungeon and get it yourself (i.e.: load a save-state) instead of getting the water arrows from the Zora dungeon...

...except now, when you face Ganon, he's got your water arrows... :D
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 11:56:39 AM »
that was the concept of my joke game Rival. I just made a video teaser. The idea was there was a game to beat, however there was a Rival character also trying to beat the game at the same time. To some extant there would be redundant dungeons and redundant items so the game could never become unbeatable.

the music is off because Youtube said my public domain version of Dies Irae was infringing...so i changed it to another version of Dies Irae.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 12:04:58 PM »
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 12:28:59 PM »
Guessing its going to be closer to Skyrim/Dragon's Dogma/fable while keeping what makes it Zelda intact.
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Offline alegoicoe

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 12:30:46 PM »
I think the idea of an open world zelda where you can tackle objectives as you wish sounds very good indeed, although some linearity is always needed for the sake of the story, something in the line of Wind Waker in terms of exploration taken to the next level with Wii U's capabilities would be nice.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 02:42:48 PM »
I don't like the multiplayer talk.  I like Four Swords but I don't want that for the main series.  Zelda being a single player adventure is part of its very appeal to me.  We're in an era where companies like EA and Activision just want online multiplayer games that rubes buy annual updates to.  Zelda is probably the best single player game series out there and I don't want that part of it to change.  It's bad enough that good single player gameplay is starting to feel like an endangered species.

Nintendo is acting like doing dungeons out of order is some big thing.  You could do out of order dungeons in the original Zelda and in A Link to the Past.  In LttP, you could go in the dungeon, get the item and then use it to access new parts of the world without beating the dungeon.  Zelda 1 relied even less on the items and used the general difficulty of the dungeon enemies to discourage out-of-sequence play.  The reason you can't do this in later Zeldas is because it isn't just the items you have that indicate if you can proceed.  So many things are triggered by cutscenes and such that require things be done in order.  Ease up on the little cutscenes and just let the player play and you'll find that it will be much easier to open the game up.

On a side note, I actually am kind of tired of the amount of cutscenes ANY game has these days.  We were all really impressed by this stuff in the 32/64 bit generation because it was something that could not really be done before.  But now it has no wow factor and just slows everything to a crawl.  Just having things happen in the game, like they did in the 2D era, without switching to some little mini-movie, would help a lot of games.

These days Zelda games seem to take forever to get to the real gameplay so that has to change for any real idea of non-linear gameplay to happen.  A good first party inspiration could be Xenoblade.  The game pretty much lets you go anywhere from the start, if you want and has so many side quests that you can pretty much **** around all you want.

Offline Stogi

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 03:11:15 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

IS IT SO HARD TO ASK FOR A ZELDA GAME THAT HAS ROBUST MULTIPLAYER, VOICE ACTING ESPECIALLY FOR LINK, 20000+ HOUR LONG GAMEPLAY, 1:1 SWORD COMBAT WITH IR POINTER CONTROLS FOR THE BOW & HOOKSHOT, A STEAM PUNK SETTING OF A FUTURE HYRULE WITH A BOSS THAT ISN'T GANON, MORE SIDEQUEST BUT A BIGGER FOCUS ON DUNGEONS, RPG ELEMENTS LIKE LEVELING UP WEAPONS AND A PARTY SYSTEM, A LOVE SCENE BETWEEN LINK AND ZELDA AND ISN'T LINEAR AND DOESN'T RELY ON THE SAME TIRED FORMULA, WITHOUT TAKING AWAY WHAT MAKES A ZELDA GAME A ZELDA GAME?!?

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Offline TrueNerd

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »
Nintendo will NEVER please all of its Zelda fans. Too many people want different things. They just have to do what they want to do and people gotta deal with it.

Offline SixthAngel

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 05:16:31 PM »
Did none of you even play Nintendoland?

Expect the multiplayer to be like that except your character is no longer on rails.  One person (or maybe 4?) fights with the Wii remote weapons like the sword while the other uses the gamepad for arrows and other ranged weapons.  As we saw with RESORT and Skyward Sword Nintendo takes new gameplay and control ideas from "Mii games" and expands on them.

It sounds awesome to me because it is something I just asked for in the Nintendoland thread.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 05:38:34 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

Ultimately a really talented game developer doesn't cater to the conflicting whims of the fanbase but rather makes the game that everyone actually wanted all along but didn't know it.  Like us fans might have difficultly conceptualizing exactly what we want but would know it if we saw it and can tell when something isn't it.

Frankly I don't think Nintendo has really tried all that hard to innovate in Zelda since the N64 anyway.  TP is a rather blatant cookie cutter game.  The other console games rely too much on a single superficial element to make the experience appear fresh.  With WW they figured that a new graphic style would be the solution and with SS it was motion control.  Take those out and those games are really not that different from TP.  Nintendo has gone for the quick fix, which hasn't worked, when they really need to rebuild from the ground up.

SS puts more effort in than others but the game is FULL of blatant padding.  They probably spent too much time tweaking the motion controls to really finish the game properly within any decent timeframe so they had us revisit the same areas multiple times.  As a result the new ideas seem half-baked.  Having more dungeon-esque areas leading to the proper dungeons seems less like a cool new idea and more like Nintendo covering for the game having no interesting NPC areas to visit beyond the main town.

The Wii itself was pretty much Nintendo assuming that motion control would do the innovation for them and that they could freshen up every franchise by just using that feature.  And that was a naive idea and it didn't work.  There is no quick fix like that.

It's got to be from the ground up, not just "OoT only with element X!"

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
To riff off of Ian a bit, I agree that the post Ocarina games have largely been reiterations of OoT. (Although I think Wind Waker's aesthetics and ocean structure are probably radical enough to count as new things.) But, as has been said before, this is the curse of OoT, which basically invented a large percentage of what's taken for granted in 3D games, more so than Mario 64, given the death of the platformer.  But like Ian, I too feel like AAA single player experiences are a dying form, and I'm not sure how much different a single-player focused Zelda game can be from that tradition. In a way, changing it up from OoT is like trying to reinvent the wheel.

That being said, reinventing the wheel should be the job. It occurred to me a while ago now that modern Zelda and Metroid share similar design skeletons: explore world in a general order with plenty of optional distractions, obtain items/powers, return to previous areas to unlock doors/access power-ups, etc. Given this fundamental similarity, it would take something quite startling to reincarnate Zelda (or Metroid) differently. I am super open to whatever they come up with, but I also fear that this could be Nintendo's first big reboot ****-up.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 09:53:41 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

The problem is if you ask ten different Zelda fans what direction the series should go in and what their ideal Zelda game would entail, you'd get ten radically different answers. Nintendo needs to get back to their old model of saying "To hell with what the fans want" and making a game that's awesome and fresh that no one knew they wanted.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 09:55:51 PM »
It's official. Zelda fans don't know what they want and Nintendo has no idea how to make it.

The problem is if you ask ten different Zelda fans what direction the series should go in and what their ideal Zelda game would entail, you'd get ten radically different answers. Nintendo needs to get back to their old model of saying "To hell with what the fans want" and making a game that's awesome and fresh that no one knew they wanted.

Yes please. I trust them to, let's do this!
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 09:56:34 PM »
wait, wouldn't a multiplayer Zelda game be awesome. I already know co-op zelda is awesome...but what about versus? Or both :D

and the type of gameplay we're talking about is called "gated access" innovated by Haunted House on Atari
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:00:48 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 09:58:49 PM »
wait, wouldn't a multiplayer Zelda game be awesome. I already know co-op zelda is awesome...but what about versus? Or both :D

1:1 duals wouldn't feel as cool as they should for a Zelda game, and unless it's a Crossbow Training type FPS, I don't see how a versus game would work other than the simple Four Swords type stuff where you battle for rupees, and that wouldn't feel like a full fledged game, just a drawn out mini-game.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 10:04:14 PM »
you wouldn't want that to be the whole game. you would just have that as an alternate multiplayer mode that would be a distraction from the main game. 4 player split screen game where all the controlls of Zelda are put to the test. It would be somewhat of an fps, but you're using arrows with small magazines, so sword play would kick in.

does Crossbow training have an FPS? i didn't play most games on Wii because I was broke.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The Legend of Zelda U and Mii
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 10:09:41 PM »
I have no clue I never picked it up, but I'd assume for a full multiplayer mode, it would have to be FPS rather than the (and I'm assuming here) shooting gallery that is Crossbow Training.
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