Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Ceric]

Dude.  Coin battle event match.  Nothing said Nook had to be a playable for you to fight him for the green.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang 1)Wario will be a Mario representative, and I don't really see any need for another Mario character except maybe Daisy.

Wario is his own character now, though. He still registers as a "guest" in Mario games much in the same way DK does, but he has his own completely separate franchise in Wario Ware and he's even dressed accordingly in Brawl to indicate as much (the biker outfit), just like DK is his own separate franchise now.

They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?

[Tanookisuit]

Talk of Baby Bowser has me thinking- wouldn't it be great if their was a weapon that, when used, turned all characters in to their alternate "baby" versions?  I'd dig that.

[JonLeung]

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Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
Talk of Baby Bowser has me thinking- wouldn't it be great if their was a weapon that, when used, turned all characters in to their alternate "baby" versions?  I'd dig that.

Then what would happen to Pichu?

Or already-cutesy/shrimpy characters like the Ice Climbers?  Or Kirby?

Or Mr. Game & Watch?  o_0

[vudu]

They would just get smaller, like if they came in contact with a poison shroom.

I think it's a great idea.  But it probably won't happen because it's a lot of extra effort just for an item effect.

[JonLeung]

Yeah, that's true.  Shrinking/growing would just be a change in the size of the polygons in the character models, but if they required different models (like, Baby Mario is clearly different than a shrunken Mario ie. no mustache, different eyes, different proportions, etc.) then that would be more processing.

Though if you wanted a massive-shrinking effect, there could be the Lightning Bolt from the Mario Kart games, which would be the same effect as a Poison Mushroom but it affects everyone.  Or maybe everyone in a radius.

After New Super Mario Bros., they might change the Poison Mushroom to the light-blue Mini Mushroom.  Though I guess the fun of jumping for mushrooms in a hurry is that you might mistake the colour of it and it might be the opposite of what you were expecting.

[Adrock]

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Originally posted by: Arbok
Sakurai already went on record saying there was only going to be 2-3 in the game (including Snake), so that's not likely.

Producers/directors say a lot of things. If you look back on any number of Miyamoto interviews, a lot of what he said never actually came true. Was he flat out lying? Maybe, maybe not. I remember when using the freehand controller to swing Link's sword in Twilight Princess was deemed "too tiring." Things change, for better or worse.

40 characters? 2-3 3rd party additions? I wouldn't put too much stake in that just because Sakurai said so. Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen. Most people expect it Q2 2007, but it could come out Q4 or even in 2008.

[Bill Aurion]

"Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen."

At that point SSB was just going to be a remake of Melee with online...Seriously...

[Spak-Spang]

Arbok:

If I remember the quote stated:  All the characters for the game are locked except for maybe one or two more third party characters.

Notice that isn't saying that Snake and only one or two more third party characters are the only ones in the game.  It said the character selection is already locked.  

So just like they had already talked to Konami and got the ok with Snake, they may have done the same with other third party characters.

I think 5 newcomer battles of third party characters would be an amazing surprise...specially if there is no clue whatsoever that they are in the game.  Once, they are unlocked it would be huge.

I also still look as Wario more of a Mario character than anything else.  Yes, he has two game franchises his self, but one is a Mario spinoff, and the other is a very unique game.  

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?

Wait, isn't Mario technically a spin-off of DK?

[Adrock]

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Bill Aurion wrote:
At that point SSB was just going to be a remake of Melee with online...Seriously...

I know, but that's besides the point. Actually, that's the whole point. Someone says something is going to be one way then it ends up going  in an entirely different direction.

And honestly, look at what you just wrote. "A remake of Melee with online." Didn't Sakurai say that his team was having trouble with online multiplayer and that 4-player online might not be possible? Who do you believe? What is there to believe until there's more than someone's word to go by?

[Ceric]

Find the contradictions and soon they will unravel and reveal the truth.

[Mario]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang 1)Wario will be a Mario representative, and I don't really see any need for another Mario character except maybe Daisy.

Wario is his own character now, though. He still registers as a "guest" in Mario games much in the same way DK does, but he has his own completely separate franchise in Wario Ware and he's even dressed accordingly in Brawl to indicate as much (the biker outfit), just like DK is his own separate franchise now.

They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?

Actually Mario is a DK spinoff.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Producers/directors say a lot of things. If you look back on any number of Miyamoto interviews, a lot of what he said never actually came true. Was he flat out lying? Maybe, maybe not. I remember when using the freehand controller to swing Link's sword in Twilight Princess was deemed "too tiring." Things change, for better or worse.

Again, it's "not likely". Could Sakurai change his mind? Sure. However, I will take his word at this stage over fan musings.

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Originally posted by: Adrock
40 characters? 2-3 3rd party additions? I wouldn't put too much stake in that just because Sakurai said so.

Thanks for listening to me... -_-'

I will say it again, that 40 number never came from Sakurai, it came from that fake news piece that "confirmed" that Baby Bowser was in the game. So, again, we don't have the faintest idea how many they might be considering in total.

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen. Most people expect it Q2 2007, but it could come out Q4 or even in 2008.

Last time I checked, Iwata wasn't Sakurai, and his vision, as Bill said, was a last case scenario in case Sakurai turned it down. If you don't trust Sakurai, that's fine, but I have no reason not to just because other developers do things differently (I'd say it's naive to assume they all have the same exact habits too).

[Adrock]

Sorry, I forgot to check my logbook of official Brawl info to see that the 40 characters thing never came from Sakurai. Whatever. The point is that a developer can "go on record" about anything. More often than not, they're just answering questions in interviews and end up contradicting themselves, albeit not on purpose. It's not that I don't trust Sakurai. I prefer to trust the development process which has its share of ups and downs. Sometimes it's rushed, sometimes the hardware isn't adequate to implement certain features, sometimes it's decided that certain features absolutely have to make it in even if it means a delay. It's not about habits, because it's not a habit to run into problems or forks in the road during development. I doubt Silicon Knights planned for Eternal Darkness to be moved to GCN or Retro having their asses handed to them by Miyamoto and told to change the entire direction of Metroid Prime or Blizzard realizing that Starcaft: Ghost just wasn't good enough to be released after 34681976 years in development under just as many teams. Basically, sh-t happens so I choose to take everything a developer says with a grain of salt. Sometimes they're lying through their teeth, other times something unexpected happens.

And last time I checked, Iwata is the president of NCL. It's his job, among many other things, to know the status every 1st and 2nd party game in development or planned to go into development. I also find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't make another Smash without Sakurai. They'd probably prefer not to, but this is the same Nintendo that allowed Capcom to develop a Zelda title and let them include a kangaroo with boxing gloves that Link rides in. At some point (maybe not anytime soon), Smash will be in someone elses hands.    

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
Sorry, I forgot to check my logbook of official Brawl info to see that the 40 characters thing never came from Sakurai. Whatever.

-_-' Again, I mentioned it in the very same post that prompted you to go off on this tirade. It's not like this was brought up on page 24 or something in this topic.

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Originally posted by: Adrock
The point is that a developer can "go on record" about anything. More often than not, they're just answering questions in interviews and end up contradicting themselves, albeit not on purpose.

Point taken and, point being? Yes things change from what a developer will tell us, either due to a deadline or simply being caught off gaurd during an interview and wording a response wrong. The quotes in question come off of the official site, though, so we can assume that Sakurai had plenty of time to formulate his response. Things could always change during the process. But, because of that, we are supposed to ignore everything the developer is telling us? If so, what would be the point of previews at all, since it's all subject to change anyway?

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Originally posted by: Adrock
And last time I checked, Iwata is the president of NCL. It's his job, among many other things, to know the status every 1st and 2nd party game in development or planned to go into development. I also find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't make another Smash without Sakurai. They'd probably prefer not to, but this is the same Nintendo that allowed Capcom to develop a Zelda title and let them include a kangaroo with boxing gloves that Link rides in. At some point (maybe not anytime soon), Smash will be in someone elses hands.

At this stage I'm just going to say it: you have never read the documentation on the Smash Bros site, have you? If so, why are you even debating about its probability if you aren't even familiar with the information yourself and its sources? The exact point that you brought up there was addressed on the site, and Nintendo was going to make another Smash Bros game without him if they had to (this comes from Iwata):

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game..."

[Adrock]

I've read everything there has been to read about Brawl. The problem here is that you're completely missing the point or perhaps just flat out ignoring it. You keep bring up how so and so said this or the official site states that and my reply is still the same: So what? What is told to the public isn't always the whole truth. You mean to tell me that you actually believe Nintendo would never make a true sequel to Smash if Sakurai wasn't involved just because Sakurai said it on the official site. That's just plain gullibility. Smash Bros. is arguably Nintendo's most popular and successful multiplayer game and they whore their characters out like no other.

This all sprang from you telling another forum member that having more than the 2-3 3rd party characters that Sakurai has stated is "not likely." Am I correct? All I'm saying is that it's just as likely that there very well could be more than 2-3 present. The feedback on Snake's appearance in Brawl has been overwhelming. Over 3 months later, Smash fans around the world are still talking about who they want in the game, 1st and 3rd party. There are dozens of characters to choose from.

Anyway, I find it odd that 3rd party additions must have appeared on a Nintendo console, but Snake's character model is based on Metal Gear Solid 2's and Gamecube is the only platfrom not to get that game in some form. I always preferred sans-mullet Snake from The Twin Snakes. I'm crossing my fingers for an alternate costume.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Adrock
You keep bring up how so and so said this or the official site states that and my reply is still the same: So what? What is told to the public isn't always the whole truth.

*sigh* So your whole point is that Sakurai isn't trust worthy, in your opinion. Whatever. Personally I will take him at his word over fan musings, but if you think otherwise, more power to you.

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Originally posted by: Adrock
You mean to tell me that you actually believe Nintendo would never make a true sequel to Smash if Sakurai wasn't involved just because Sakurai said it on the official site. That's just plain gullibility. Smash Bros. is arguably Nintendo's most popular and successful multiplayer game and they whore their characters out like no other.

Right, because it's not like there have ever been different versions of other games with the same rosters that have went through Nintendo, like some of the Mario Karts for example. I guess it's out of the question that Iwata might respect Sakurai too...

I'm sure if they made another one, the graphics would have been overhauled, modes changed, and the single player restructed (not counting the mentioned wi-fi addition). But perhaps Iwata felt that leaving the characters untouched without Sakurai's imput was important, hell he came from HAL so it's not a strange concept to assume they might have a good relationship with one another.

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Originally posted by: Adrock
This all sprang from you telling another forum member that having more than the 2-3 3rd party characters that Sakurai has stated is "not likely." Am I correct? All I'm saying is that it's just as likely that there very well could be more than 2-3 present. The feedback on Snake's appearance in Brawl has been overwhelming.

And Sakurai made that comment in hindsight of the reaction at E3. Maybe he was trying to cool down the volume of requests? Maybe he would rather the game still be mostly dedicated to Nintendo? Who is to say. I doubt he just threw out that figure without any thought behind it though, considering the reaction it would garnish.

[Adrock]

Do you have to be so narrowminded when you interpret my posts? My point is simply don't believe everything you read. I thought I was pretty clear. I never said Sakurai wasn't trust worthy.

Quote
I wrote:
It's not that I don't trust Sakurai. I prefer to trust the development process which has its share of ups and downs.

You can keep rubbing your biting sarcasm in my face and continue to call what I say "fan musings." At the same time, I could call what you say "blind fanboy ramblings." I don't deny that the 2-3 3rd party characters thing could be true, but I accept that the number Sakurai gave could, in fact, change. I choose to look at both sides of the coin and keep an open mind. I don't think either situation is any more likely. I just gave examples of why that number could change.

[Caterkiller]

There there, shut up guys... Your both wrong.  

[IceCold]

Wow.. nearly two pages arguing about nothing.

[Adrock]

Such hostility.... now I remember why I hate everyone...

I hope Brawl is a more balanced game than Melee.

[Nephilim]

you guys are forgetting brawl is a few companys working together, I doubt Sakurai will have a huge impact on stopping only 3 people, if konami and nintendo agree to 5 konami guys in it
Sakurai blog just stated that they have plans for 3 at the moment, but after snake was announced, im sure other companys got interested in there francises also in it

u guys are putting too much trust in a blog and a silly guestbook on his site

[Mario]

I'd like to thank Adrock for the confirmation that things can actually change, and that SSBB is still in development.

[WalkingTheCow]

I wonder if "Guy with a hammer" will make it in. . . Probobly not if they don't think the game (Project H.A.M.M.E.R.) will be all that great. Still, I'm suprised the idea isn't thrown around more.