Author Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?  (Read 1592804 times)

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5150 on: December 04, 2012, 06:57:28 PM »
Wavebird is the best controller ever. Just needed a bigger D-Pad and C-Stick (okay and dual triggers)... but the handling and button layout was genius. If Nintendo made a Wavebird-designed Wii U Pro Contrller, then that would just be dandy.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5151 on: December 05, 2012, 12:03:13 AM »

360's isn't bad but most comfortable controller IMO is the Gamecubes. That thing just melds with your hand to become an extension of your body. I know people give it **** for the button layout but there were very few games that were affected by it, namely mgs:ts. Other than that, it was damn near godly amongst controllers.


I loved the button layout on the 'Cube. I thought it was pretty intuitive to use. Big green main button, smaller red secondary button, and two more to roll your thumb in to. All it really needed was a second Z-button (ZR and ZL) and bigger D-Pad and C-stick.


As did I, it was great for Nintendo games and most 3rd party games, but others suffer because they were designed with the PS2 controller in mind. Again, look at MGS:TS for a good example of this. Personally I love the prominence of the A button because it just makes sense, most games have that one button that gets used more so than the others, so Nintendo made that button huge. I remember loving it for THPS3, which launched with the system, because having the giant A button for ollies made switching into other tricks a breeze. There were times on N64 that I'd lose finger placement and instead of performing an ollie I'd go into a grab or something and ruin my score streak. Meanwhile on the cube I was pulling off strings that scored into the millions ;) good times, ahh.


I do agree that the d-pad could of been bigger, as well as the c-stick but neither ever caused any real trouble for me in games that used them. What I will disagree on is the need for a second Z button. Personally I just don't like dual shoulder buttons, they're uncomfortable to me. I could never hold the Dualshock controllers with fingers on all 4 and it made games that used all of them essentially unplayable for me.


I'm having this issue with the Wii U's Gamepad, somewhat. In Arkham City, for example, those shoulder buttons are important but my fingers rest more naturally on ZL/R than they do on L/R, so I find myself stretching them upwards to hit those. When I try to rest my index fingers on L/R and middle fingers on ZL/R, the controller just feels off balance. It's a minor annoyance really and nothing that ruins the experience for me.

The more I think about it, the more I wish Nintendo went back to the concave design of the L/R triggers on the GCN controller :( Those were so comfortable..


I have never played with an X-Box controller of any kind but I really like the DualShock. I like the button and stick layout. I at first did not like the symbols but now, seasoned PS player that I am  ;) ,[bI find them very intuitive.


I'm not being a dick, I really want to know what you find intuitive about it. It might just be that spending hours using the NES then SNES pads have made me more accustomed to the b/a and y/x layout that what the dualshock uses. To this day I get stupid trying to figure out those buttons without looking down.


Wavebird is the best controller ever. Just needed a bigger D-Pad and C-Stick (okay and dual triggers)... but the handling and button layout was genius. If Nintendo made a Wavebird-designed Wii U Pro Contrller, then that would just be dandy.


I feel like a horrible person for never owning the wavebird :( A friend had it and I only used it once.. once! ugh..
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Offline Fatty The Hutt

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5152 on: December 05, 2012, 12:11:39 AM »
@EasyCure: I think QTE's probably did it to me.
As an example, battling in Costume Quest required quick and correctly timed button presses to accord with onscreen prompts. Similar in a way to Mario and Luigi, I guess.
Anyway, something like Costume Quest gets you to remember the symbols pretty fast.


Also, I think the visual representation (rather than letters or numbers) is just more effective at creating an association that I remember. I never get "X" and "Triangle" backwards, but I do get "A" mixed up with "B" or "Y" more often than I like to admit.
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Offline tendoboy1984

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5153 on: December 05, 2012, 01:58:03 AM »
I've always associated A as the main action button (the way Xbox controllers are), which is why I don't like the button layout on most Nintendo controllers (where A and B are switched).

I prefer it like this:
Xbox -- A / X -- PlayStation
Xbox -- B / O (Circle) -- PlayStation
Xbox -- X / Square -- PlayStation
Xbox -- Y / Triangle -- PlayStation
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:07:56 AM by tendoboy1984 »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5154 on: December 05, 2012, 07:40:52 AM »
I feel like a horrible person for never owning the wavebird :( A friend had it and I only used it once.. once! ugh..
My condolences. Everything is wireless today so we don't really think about it, but that **** was thoroughly good back in 2002. The loss of rumble didn't even compare to the freedom of a wireless controller.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5155 on: December 05, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »
I've always associated A as the main action button (the way Xbox controllers are), which is why I don't like the button layout on most Nintendo controllers (where A and B are switched).

I prefer it like this:
Xbox -- A / X -- PlayStation
Xbox -- B / O (Circle) -- PlayStation
Xbox -- X / Square -- PlayStation
Xbox -- Y / Triangle -- PlayStation

Nintendo is just reusing the SNES button layout. I guess I got used to it during those days. But I usually don't have a problem going from my 3DS to my 360, but I kinda did using the Wii Classic controller to play Brawl.
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Offline tendoboy1984

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5156 on: December 05, 2012, 10:53:30 AM »
But I usually don't have a problem going from my 3DS to my 360, but I kinda did using the Wii Classic controller to play Brawl.


Agreed, good thing Brawl has customizable controls. I'd actually like it if controllers had the following button layout:


Bottom -- A
Left -- B
Right -- X
Top -- Y

That way you'd preserve the A and B buttons for Mario games (B to run, A to jump). The way the SNES layout is, you need to angle your thumb to press both A and B, making Virtual Console games difficult to play. Having a uniform button layout would make playing games across different platforms much easier.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:55:51 AM by tendoboy1984 »
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5157 on: December 05, 2012, 01:19:27 PM »
GCN controller is by far the most comfortable controller I've ever held (I wish the button layout worked for more than GCN games as I'd buy an adapter for every system I have so I can use the GCN controller on all of them).  I do wish Nintendo would make a new controller based on that design but changed the button layout to the Wii U's layout.  Then I'd buy a Wii U instantly and four of those controllers.

And I agree with EasyCure that I want Nintendo to go back to concave trigger buttons.  Nothing else has been as comfortable.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5158 on: December 05, 2012, 06:57:31 PM »
Button designations don't really affect me since I don't think of controls in terms of what button does what, I instead go by the feel of the controller. This is why I usually have trouble explaining the controls to people because I have to think about what the button is called. If you asked me, for example, how to run and jump in Mario, I don't think of it as A = run and B = jump, I just know where I have to hold my thumb to run and where I have to press to jump.

This is why I don't like those "quick time" dealies, because button prompts are not intuitive to me. I always have to look where the button is on the controller.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5159 on: December 05, 2012, 07:24:38 PM »
But A isn't run, B is ;)
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5160 on: December 05, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »
I got the first God of War and wrote off the whole series because of the QTEs.  I cannot do that **** with the Playstation symbols.  I really don't even think in terms of buttons anyway.  The buttons quickly become "jump", "shoot" etc.  So if the game suddenly says "PUSH A!!!" I have to think about it.  It isn't "A", it's "jump".

The Cube controller COULD have been the best ever BUT Nintendo had to effectively throw a hissy fit during the design.  They originally did not have the Z button or the d-pad on their but added them due to requests from developers.  So they half-assed the request, throwing a Z button in practically a random location and cheaping out by re-purposing the tiny GBA d-pad (which probably saved them squat for money in the longrun since they replaced the d-pad on the GBA SP with a better design).  Nintendo is a stubborn company and they don't seem to do things they don't want to do very well.  If it wasn't their own idea they do it shitty, probably to "prove" that the idea was no good all along.  I don't know if that is on purpose or it's just sloppiness born out of a lack of motivation.

If Nintendo were the reasonable and accomodating company we all wish they would be the Cube d-pad and Z button would be actually useful, but they're not and the controller is a seriously flawed as a result.  In terms of ergonomics though, that controller just melted in your hands which makes the Wii's rectangular controller design all the more odd.  The infamous "NES" way of holding the controller is like the anti-Cube.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5161 on: December 05, 2012, 09:03:09 PM »
I prefer game cube QTEs
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5162 on: December 05, 2012, 09:23:19 PM »
I never really got the complaint over the GameCube's Z button, it feels absolutely no different than the PlayStation's R1 button. I think it's just a psychological thing, since there is no symmetrical shoulder button on the left side, the Z button looks out of place.

But A isn't run, B is ;)
Well, at least I didn't say they were Select and L.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5163 on: December 05, 2012, 10:51:13 PM »
Button designations don't really affect me since I don't think of controls in terms of what button does what, I instead go by the feel of the controller. This is why I usually have trouble explaining the controls to people because I have to think about what the button is called. If you asked me, for example, how to run and jump in Mario, I don't think of it as A = run and B = jump, I just know where I have to hold my thumb to run and where I have to press to jump.

This is why I don't like those "quick time" dealies, because button prompts are not intuitive to me. I always have to look where the button is on the controller.
I agree. It's all about button placement for me in terms of what a buttons does which in some cases makes getting used to a game a bit more difficult.

I don't like QTEs because they're not fun. There has to be a more effective and enjoyable way to keep players engaged while being cinematic or whatever developers are trying to accomplish with those.

Anyway, I tried the Pro Controller just now in Might Switch Force. What an excellent controller! It feels so natural. I wish the whole thing was matte as the texture on the bottom half just helps with gripping the thing. If I absolutely had to change anything else, it would be the addition of the Gamecube's analog triggers with the digital click. I don't mind the analog sticks being in a circular well (?) instead of the 8-directional one on GameCube and Wii. All in all, just a solid design.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:02:58 AM by Adrock »

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5164 on: December 06, 2012, 02:27:42 AM »
Digital Foundry confirms Wii U has the best console version of Trine 2

Offline MrPhishfood

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5165 on: December 06, 2012, 05:30:35 AM »
I wish they never used any of that glossy plastic, but I guess they didn't want to cheapen the feel of the whole thing. This is what I dislike most about the Wii U.

They could done it like the 3DS XL, it wasn't glossy but it had a very nice finish.

BTW did you know you can use the gamepad TV functions even when the Wii U is off?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 05:48:32 AM by MrPhishfood »

Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5166 on: December 06, 2012, 06:01:51 AM »
I hope you guys are enjoying the Nintendo Wii U as much as I am! I am not able to play it as much as I would like to because of Life priorities. I got turned into a casual gamer that only plays games from 0 - 2 hours a day.  The only days I went way over that number was the Wii U weekend. (Nov 30th) I played nearly 8 hours on Saturday and Sunday. I felt dizzy on Monday, haha! I also dedicated my gaming life to Nintendo, as I never really enjoyed the systems by either Sega, Sony or Microsoft.


Currently I got 7 Wii U games, including games like New Super Mario Bros. U, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed and Black Ops 2. I am focusing more on New Super Mario Bros. U as of right now, but I played the other games a bit for some impressions. The only games I still need to try out are ZombiU & Tank! Tank! Tank!.


As for New Super Mario Bros. U, it's a hard game! It's way harder than New Super Mario Bros. 2 on the 3DS in my experience. I am a guy who can't miss any star coins, so the difficulty of the game doubled! I am stuck at the Ghost Ship in Sparkling Waters (World 3).

Peace and happy Nintendo gaming everyone.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5167 on: December 06, 2012, 07:14:19 AM »
I wish they never used any of that glossy plastic, but I guess they didn't want to cheapen the feel of the whole thing. This is what I dislike most about the Wii U.
The ironic thing about that for me is I think the glossy plastic cheapens the feel of the whole thing, way more than a matte finish. I can name a few things I dislike more than the glossy finish.
Quote
BTW did you know you can use the gamepad TV functions even when the Wii U is off?
I did , but I don't have cable so I'm usually just playing Wii U anyway. I don't want to have to use the GamePad when I don't need to. I want to save that battery as much as I can for actual gaming.
As for New Super Mario Bros. U, it's a hard game! It's way harder than New Super Mario Bros. 2 on the 3DS in my experience. I am a guy who can't miss any star coins, so the difficulty of the game doubled!
Like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it's designed primarily as a co-op game and as such, it's much easier with at least 1 other player. It can still be difficult, but I still thought New Super Mario Bros. Wii was harder (so far).

Offline Sarail

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5168 on: December 06, 2012, 09:18:13 AM »
But I usually don't have a problem going from my 3DS to my 360, but I kinda did using the Wii Classic controller to play Brawl.

Agreed, good thing Brawl has customizable controls. I'd actually like it if controllers had the following button layout:

Bottom -- A
Left -- B
Right -- X
Top -- Y

That way you'd preserve the A and B buttons for Mario games (B to run, A to jump). The way the SNES layout is, you need to angle your thumb to press both A and B, making Virtual Console games difficult to play. Having a uniform button layout would make playing games across different platforms much easier.
Super NES set the precedent. Running with Mario was done with the concave Y button, and jumping was done with the convex B button (good heavens, how I wish they'd bring back the concave/convex button design). It was angled perfectly with your thumb. Of course, the X button was run, too... because A was your spin jump. Oh, guess what game uses that exact same layout? That's right...

New Super Mario Bros. U! Wow. *derp*
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Offline Soren

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5169 on: December 06, 2012, 10:02:25 AM »
Super NES set the precedent. Running with Mario was done with the concave Y button, and jumping was done with the convex B button (good heavens, how I wish they'd bring back the concave/convex button design). It was angled perfectly with your thumb. Of course, the X button was run, too... because A was your spin jump. Oh, guess what game uses that exact same layout? That's right...

New Super Mario Bros. U! Wow. *derp*

Love that controller. It felt great playing SMW. I can't help but hold down Y while doing anything in Mario Bros. U just like I did in World.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5170 on: December 06, 2012, 10:36:48 AM »
I prefer game cube QTEs

The great thing about any QTEs on the 'Cube was that the buttons were color coded and shaped differently. The icon could pop up and you'd know where to move your thumb because how the buttons were shaped was tied to where they were located.

Though come to think of it, I'm not sure how many 'Cube games I played with QTEs.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5171 on: December 06, 2012, 01:43:33 PM »
RE4 is the only one the jumps to mind.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5172 on: December 06, 2012, 03:24:24 PM »
Yeah, maybe I was thinking of something else where the buttons were used as logos in stead of text that read "the X button" or similar.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5173 on: December 06, 2012, 05:40:36 PM »
I thought Resident Evil 4 started that whole QTE stuff. I loved it in that game. Hated it in every other game since.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii U is here
« Reply #5174 on: December 06, 2012, 06:55:13 PM »
The GameCube buttons being different shapes actually helps me with button prompts. If the prompt shows the shape of the button, then I can feel out the shape instead of having to look at the controller. I know the buttons by shape.