Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[tendoboy1984]

PS3 is closer than it should be considering it launched a year later and at $599 US Dollars.

True, which is very surprising, considering everyone was claiming the PS3 was DOA (dead on arrival). Nobody expected Sony to sell 65+ million units worldwide, and that's pretty successful for a game console.


Speaking of sales, I hate how analysts are always predicting the demise of game consoles just because they don't sell as well as smartphones and iPads.


Newsflash: Game consoles have always sold in the 10's-of-millions (PS2 and Nintendo DS are exceptions, of course). Game systems are (and always have been) considered niche products, not everyone needs a game system. Conversely, pretty much everyone has (and needs) a phone for communication and social networking purposes.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah and the best looking SNES games annihilated anything from the Genesis, which shows people shouldn't care too much about a slower CPU since the rest of the Wii U hardware will allow it to produce games beyond what the 360 can do.

So people should only care about graphics? SNES games looked better, but Genesis games ran faster due to the faster CPU. This is reflected in the fact that the Genesis' mascot was Sonic (a character built around speed). I loved my SNES dearly and it had the best looking 16bit games ever, but I have to admit one of the common issues of the SNES was CPU slowdown. If too much **** was going on at once on the screen things would slow down because the CPU struggled to process it all. AFAIK this never happened on the Genesis, but on the SNES it was a common problem with fast paced games... especially shooting games like Gradius with a lot of stuff flying around on the screen.

This is what you and some others still don't seem to be understanding. The SNES had graphics that could rival those of 32bit systems, but the CPU was weak. There is no denying that. If Graphics are all that matter then the SNES won the 16bit generation hands down, but other stuff besides graphics matter (at least to some people). The SNES had the better graphics, but the Genesis had the faster speed. And this was despite the fact the Genesis came out two years earlier. Back then Nintendo went with an inferior CPU chip when they designed the SNES, just like they are doing right now with the Wii U.

But believe me, if the Wii U ends up being as awesome as the SNES was then I will be more than satisfied with it. The SNES was my favorite console of all time, despite the weaker CPU.

[Adrock]

For everyone discussing the significance of these "revelations" about the CPU, I would like to point out that the WiiU's CPU is an "out of order" processer whereas all processors used so far have been an "in order" processer.  Now I can't get into detail on how thats an improvement over the other as I'm not a tech head but based on what I've read on Neogaf between the more knowledgable members, and a few google searchs on the topic, an OoO processer and GPGPU is what the next gen are aming for.  I would assume that it having a slower clock speed, being OoO, and the general approach of having the GPGPU handle some of the processing is whats cauasing these "issues" to arrise with developers.  I'm sure once developement transitions fully to the next gen, the WiiU will benefit from all developers tailering their code to these new setups. 

To be honest, I have no idea what any of that means save for the end where it sounds like "write code specifically for Wii U and games will be just fine" (AKA optimize) which is true for every hardware ever. That's the reason I'm not really concerned by this. I'm not a programer. The last time I wrote anything even remotely close to code was in a Visual Basic class in high school. Point being, if you don't know anything about programming or how hardware works, this might as well be in a different language and there's no real reason to panic or be worried.

So, here we have a guy, Akihiro Suzuki, who most of us have never heard of before last week and he gives a few sound bite quotes that gaming journals across the interwebs have been sensationalizing ever since. There are a lot of question marks here. What does the CPU is "a little bit less" mean? Are we talking 3.2Ghz vs 3.1Ghz? I don't know a lot about CPU architecture and wizardry, but I'm pretty sure a CPU's worth is not measured merely in clock speed. Does it have a more modern design (likely)? Can Nintendo unlock the full CPU speed (like Sony did through a firmware update on PSP)? Would they if they could (in a boat, with a goat, in the rain, and on a train)? There are too many question marks here to be putting so much stock in one person's words, especially when no developer works out the kinks of any hardware for a launch title.

[ymeegod]

Sigh, people getting way to caught up with jargon--sprew it around without actually knowning the meaning.

GPGPU isn't anything new--anything direct X 10 card (MS calls it directcompute)/opengl(opencl) is similar and can already be used on the PS3.  The 360 is only DX9.1 so it doesn't offer that feature.  Even using the GPU to offset some of the load, Temco wasn't lying or lazy about CPU limits.  The CPU still handles all the AI, objects, pathfinding, sound ect. Physics and other math computing stuff can be offset to the GPU but the CPU still handles it's fair share.  Hense any PC builder will tell you the same. 

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Also I wonder if one of the cores is reserved for the gamepad?  Kinda like how the WII U split it's memory, 1GB of ram for an console's OS seems to extreme so I'm guessing 1/2 of that might be reserved for the Gamepad as well?
 

[MegaByte]

Yeah and the best looking SNES games annihilated anything from the Genesis, which shows people shouldn't care too much about a slower CPU since the rest of the Wii U hardware will allow it to produce games beyond what the 360 can do.

Nintendo also added entire (faster) CPUs to some games to overcome the original system's limitations.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah and the best looking SNES games annihilated anything from the Genesis, which shows people shouldn't care too much about a slower CPU since the rest of the Wii U hardware will allow it to produce games beyond what the 360 can do.

Nintendo also added entire (faster) CPUs to some games to overcome the original system's limitations.

I always found it fascinating how with cartridges Nintendo was able to add in chips which expanded the capabilities of the system far beyond what it was capable of on its own. Unfortunately, there's no way Nintendo can do that with the Wii U. A blu-ray disc isn't going to contain a more powerful CPU, so whatever the Wii U has in the finalized design is all it will ever have for the entirety of its life cycle. That's why they should have bumped the specs up higher than they did.

[Louieturkey]

Chozo, faster processor speed rarely ever means superior CPU.  Please understand that first (only if they are on the same architecture is that ever relevant).  Threads refers to the amount of parallel processing a CPU can do at the same time.  The 360 has 3 threads because each of their CPU cores are single threaded.  The PS3 has the cell that is super complicated but it basically has eight threads (seven usable for games I think).  Outside of Sony 1st party games, though, rarely do anymore than two or three get used.

The CPU in the Wii U is said to be a triple core processor and most likely single threaded.  One core may only get used for the gamepad as well so it could be dual core effectively for the tv.  The architecture of the chip is superior to the 360 CPU (I won't compare the cell to it as it's really not comparable).  The 360 cores were running at 3.2Ghz I believe.  My guess is that the Wii U cores will run somewhere in the 2-3Ghz range.  I still believe the Wii U CPU is superior to the 360.  Architecture is different and time constraints are the reasons why the Koei guy can't get it to run better.

SNES CPU was superior to the Genesis CPU because the architecture was better.  Games had to be written differently to take advantage of that though.  And the Genesis had its many games with horrible coding and slow down problems as well.  SNES was not alone with that.

FYI I'm probably messing some of this up but it is to get the point that CPU processor speed (amount of Ghz/Mhz it is) is no longer the measuring stick.  That ended with the Pentium 4.  It's why they name the processors by a number and not the processor speed anymore.

[tendoboy1984]

The faster something is, the more work it can get done at a more efficient rate. Processor speed should be just as important as it ever was.

The fact that most 3rd-party developers hardly utilized the Cell processor's extra power shows that it was a waste of tech. Sony could have made something more "conservative", like the Xbox 360's Xenon chip, but they wanted to differentiate themselves by going all out with the specs.

[ShyGuy]

Discussing system specs with Chozo is like discussing car motors with someone who doesn't understand the internal combustion engine.

[Caterkiller]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6331-Why-the-Wii-U-May-Have-Already-Won-Next-gen

Hmm, what's this? A very pro Wii U video. Take a look. This guy thinks Nintendo may have already "won" this generation.

[Adrock]

I'll watch the video literally right after I post this. However, I find it dubious to claim any company could win a generation before it even starts.

EDIT: For anyone who hasn't watched the video, skip the 1st minute. That was brutal.

[Caterkiller]

He doesn't really state as such, he actually claims a neutral view on the eventual outcome of it all. That was my own spin on it to make people watch.

[Adrock]

That was refreshing. That's 1 neutral video vs 42865238503 hater videos. Closing the gap. Again, skip the 1st minute... and the last minute and 20 seconds for that matter. Thank me later.

There was something I was confused about. He said, "My wife could be watching Mad Men, for example, while I'm huddled in the corner playing the Marios." I thought the Wii U couldn't do both at the same time. Is he saying that he's playing the game on the GamePad while she watches Netflix using Smart TV? That's kind of the impression I get, but while he's explaining this, the video is the demo  of Nintendo TVii on the GamePad.

[Caterkiller]

I think he meant like while he is playing Wii U, his wife could change the input settings on tv to watch regular tv. Or maybe he didn't...

[MrPhishfood]

I think he meant like while he is playing Wii U, his wife could change the input settings on tv to watch regular tv.

I think that is exactly what he meant.

[ShyGuy]

Nintendo should have bundled Nintendo Land with the White Wii U as well. Casuals are more likely to buy the White Version, and little Jonny will be disappointed if he gets a Wii U and nothing to play on it Christmas morning. Maybe the system comes with some unannounced Face Raiders style game.

Also, I suppose litte Jonny's parents could hook it up to Wifi and get a game from the eshop. But if they aren't tech savvy enough to realize the White system doesn't come with a game disc, they probably won't know how to buy stuff of the the eshop.

[Adrock]

Maybe the system comes with some unannounced Face Raiders style game.

It doesn't. Unfortunately, there are no pre-downloaded games.

I would hope they would realize that there's no game included. Even it they didn't, the benefit of launching near Christmas is that they're probably going to buy additional games anyway. It's probably more likely for them to buy the Deluxe Set and Nintendo Land separately, not knowing that it's packed in.

[noname2200]

While a few might slip through the cracks, I'm confident the majority of folks will realize there is no game bundled inside; that's been the norm since the Playstation days, with Wii being the only exception I can think of.

[Adrock]

According to Kotaku, Mass Effect Trilogy is a thing now. The 360 and PC versions will be out in November. The PS3 version (which will include Mass Effect 1, playable on PS3 for the 1st time) doesn't have a date yet. Now it's especially odd that they're even bothering with a Wii U version of just Mass Effect 3.

Calling all kytims. Might be a good idea to wait for a possible Wii U release of the whole trilogy.

[noname2200]

Might be a good idea to wait for a possible Wii U release of the whole trilogy.

What, and fail EA's first test?

[broodwars]

OK, guys. Now that apparently Microsoft's ME1 exclusivity is over and the full trilogy is releasing on PS3 with your choices carrying over, NOW you have my permission to bitch about the Wii U not having it. Seriously, ME3 really disappointed me, but if you're going to play ME, do it right and start from the beginning.

[noname2200]

OK, guys. Now that apparently Microsoft's ME1 exclusivity is over and the full trilogy is releasing on PS3 with your choices carrying over, NOW you have my permission to bitch about the Wii U not having it. Seriously, ME3 really disappointed me, but if you're going to play ME, do it right and start from the beginning.

I wonder if this news has anything to do with ME3's alleged delay? I'm skeptical, but it'd be nice.

[Luigi Dude]

What, and fail EA's first test?

Yep this is exactly what EA will do.  They'll use the sales of Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U to decide if Trilogy will be released.  So in other words Wii U owner will have to buy the ending to the series before EA will allow them to play the beginning. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

So basically, EA just just Capcom'd Mass Effect on the Wii U.

I wasn't planning on buying this game as (from what I've heard) that would be like watching Lord of the Rings starting with watching a reviewers summary of the first two films, and then actually watching the 3rd for yourself. But if they release a Trilogy remake with uMote in mind, I might consider it.

[Do_What]

What, and fail EA's first test?

Yep this is exactly what EA will do.  They'll use the sales of Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U to decide if Trilogy will be released.  So in other words Wii U owner will have to buy the ending to the series before EA will allow them to play the beginning.

It's exactly the thing that happened a lot with the Wii. Publishers would develop a title that had ZERO chance of selling on any platform (say Mad World) and be like "welp, **** don't sell on wii." It happens ALL the time. EA is definitely going to release ME3 at $60 and wonder why it does significantly worse than ME Trilogy on PS3/360 at the same price. Madden will sell worse and they'll continue to not put effort into the Wii U version of the title. This is a sign of bad things to come.