Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[MagicCow64]

As someone mentioned in a different thread, the 360 was not particularly impressive for awhile after launch. And then Gears of War dropped. I still remember seeing that game in action for the first time, especially that early rain level. I don't know if there will be a similar eye-opening moment on the Wii U (or the other new consoles) given plateauing, but Pikmin 3 is not coming close to maxing out the system, nor is Nintendoland or NSMBU. They're not even trying, really. It strikes me that Nintendo's biggest mistake might have been not to push a graphically impressive game at launch.

[Adrock]

I think these debates on power/graphics will continue until E3 next year....once Nintendo show off the next wave of first party titles then we will see what the machine is capable of

They're kind of superfluous right now because there's no point of reference. We all expect Sony and Microsoft to launch more powerful consoles, but we don't know how much more. We don't know how much that will matter. It's more up to 3rd parties to make games for it and consumers to accept the reality of buying new hardware. In both cases, they could just decide to stick with what they have. The same could be said of Wii U. However, 3rd parties are mostly porting and Nintendo fans will, for the most part, buy an entire console just for Mario, Zelda etc. It's a different fan culture.

[Chozo Ghost]

Games on the Wii U may be impressive, but the CPU will never be impressive. Developers can work around the limitations and with the help of the GPGPU manage to finagel a really impressive piece of software on the system, but this will be in spite of the CPU and not because of it.

[ShyGuy]

That is a stupid reason to hate on a console.

"The games on the 360 may be impressive, but the game disc capacity will never be impressive."
"The games on the PS3 may be impressive, but the amount of system RAM will never be impressive."
"The games on the Vita may be impressive, but the analog sticks will never be impressive."
"The games on the PC may be impressive, but the archaic keyboard input will never be impressive."

[magicmilner]

I think these debates on power/graphics will continue until E3 next year....once Nintendo show off the next wave of first party titles then we will see what the machine is capable of

They're kind of superfluous right now because there's no point of reference. We all expect Sony and Microsoft to launch more powerful consoles, but we don't know how much more. We don't know how much that will matter. It's more up to 3rd parties to make games for it and consumers to accept the reality of buying new hardware. In both cases, they could just decide to stick with what they have. The same could be said of Wii U. However, 3rd parties are mostly porting and Nintendo fans will, for the most part, buy an entire console just for Mario, Zelda etc. It's a different fan culture.

Its weird but yeah since the cube i've only ever bought nintendo consoles for the exclusives....always used my xbox for the 3rd party software

I find it hard to imagine the jump next gen will be as massive as previous gens  E3 will be very interesting next year

[Chozo Ghost]

That is a stupid reason to hate on a console.

Just like the "Wii" name was a stupid reason to hate the Wii. But stupid reason or not, it was a reason. Why give anyone any sort of reason whatsoever to criticize your product? Why give people this ammunition? I know exactly how kids are because I was one myself. Back when I was in school if a console had less bits it got bashed for it, even though as kids we didn't even know what bits even were. If you had an 8 bit console and your friends all had moved on to 16bit you were ridiculed for it. I agree with you 100% a stupid reason is a stupid reason, but Nintendo could have avoided it. The PS360 are 6-7 years old, so how hard would it have been to trump their CPU with something better? We're talking about 6-7 year old technology, so the bar should have been really low.

[Caterkiller]

fans, I need you to follow & tweethank @scottfoe, he convinced SEGA to meet with me now chances of a new Ecco the Dolphin x100!

Nothing is happening yet, but this guy is trying to get a new Ecco game green lit! Loved me some Ecco the Dolphin man! It seemed so real and it was terrifying to me as a child. I got so far in both for the genesis but couldn't beat the last boss in the first and can't beat a space ship level in the 2nd.

With today's graphics it could look so realistic!

And Chozo that's just dumb.

[Adrock]

Its weird but yeah since the cube i've only ever bought nintendo consoles for the exclusives....always used my xbox for the 3rd party software

I find it hard to imagine the jump next gen will be as massive as previous gens  E3 will be very interesting next year

Same here except with PS3 instead of 360 (though my brother had a 360 until a few months ago). I'm 28 and I don't have as much time for gaming anymore so Wii U should be enough for my gaming needs. As long as it gets the best of the other consoles for the next few years (namely Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 6 to start), I think it'll be just fine. And I agree, E3 should be awesome for Wii U games. We should see Smash Bros. at the very least. It will likely be going up against 2 hardware reveals so Nintendo better pull out all the stops.

Just like the "Wii" name was a stupid reason to hate the Wii. But stupid reason or not, it was a reason.

This is kind of unrelated to the rest of your post so apologies for not addressing the rest of it. I've been fine with the Wii U name, but every time I see it, I wonder why Nintendo didn't name the console itself "Nintendo GamePad." That's a pretty good name for a console and easy to pronounce in most languages.

[MrPhishfood]

Just like the "Wii" name was a stupid reason to hate the Wii. But stupid reason or not, it was a reason. Why give anyone any sort of reason whatsoever to criticize your product? Why give people this ammunition?

You've mentioned criticism a lot but do these insignificant whispers on the Internet matter so much to Nintendo's overall business strategy? Is peer pressure by gaming nerds (like myself) really going to stop someone from buying Nintendo?

People like us who spend their free time on Internet forums talking about this stuff represent a tiny portion of all console gamers.

[Chozo Ghost]

And Chozo that's just dumb.

It is, but that isn't the point. I don't think anyone in this thread is really understanding the point I'm trying to make. From a practical standpoint the CPU is good enough, and you all seem to be arguing that everyone SHOULD be fine with it, but I'm not arguing what people SHOULD think about it. I'm telling you what people WILL think about it. Is it dumb? Sure. But people WILL think badly of the Wii U when they hear the CPU is inferior to the PS360's CPUs. This is a problem for Nintendo because it impacts sales. I'm not saying the CPU isn't good enough by any means. All I'm trying to say is how people are going to look at it and the will completely dismiss the Wii U just based on that alone. Good luck trying to argue with them about code optimizing and the GPGPU and all that.

It doesn't take much imagination to picture some average consumer walking into Gamestop (or whatever), and then asking what console they should get and then the clerk telling them "don't get this one because it has a weak CPU". Its the kind of idiotic fanboy reaction that makes you want to break something, but I guarantee this is going to happen. Nintendo could have avoided it by opting for a more powerful CPU, though. Even though the one they are using is probably fine from a practical standpoint, you have to keep in mind how the market is going to view it. Idiotic or not, the way people view your product does matter.

Nintendo designed the Gamecube to be a purple lunchbox which wasn't a design people seemed to approve of. The Gamecube had some really awesome games, though. But my point is people dismissed it and refused to buy it just because of how it looked. Judging a book (or console) by its cover is a stupid thing to do, but it cost Nintendo market share. I'm not saying that alone is the reason the Gamecube didn't do better than it did, but it was a factor. My point is simply that you don't want to give any reason for people to trash your product. How people SHOULD think and how they WILL think are two very different things. I agree completely people shouldn't trash a product over superficial reasons, but they do. This is a fact and facts shouldn't be ignored just because they are inconvenient.

[tendoboy1984]

That is a stupid reason to hate on a console.

"The games on the 360 may be impressive, but the game disc capacity will never be impressive."
"The games on the PS3 may be impressive, but the amount of system RAM will never be impressive."
"The games on the Vita may be impressive, but the analog sticks will never be impressive."
"The games on the PC may be impressive, but the archaic keyboard input will never be impressive."

You forgot to add:

"The games on the 3DS may be impressive, but the lack of a second Circle Pad and HD screen will never be impressive."

[tendoboy1984]

And Chozo that's just dumb.

It is, but that isn't the point. I don't think anyone in this thread is really understanding the point I'm trying to make. From a practical standpoint the CPU is good enough, and you all seem to be arguing that everyone SHOULD be fine with it, but I'm not arguing what people SHOULD think about it. I'm telling you what people WILL think about it. Is it dumb? Sure. But people WILL think badly of the Wii U when they hear the CPU is inferior to the PS360's CPUs. This is a problem for Nintendo because it impacts sales. I'm not saying the CPU isn't good enough by any means. All I'm trying to say is how people are going to look at it and the will completely dismiss the Wii U just based on that alone. Good luck trying to argue with them about code optimizing and the GPGPU and all that.

It doesn't take much imagination to picture some average consumer walking into Gamestop (or whatever), and then asking what console they should get and then the clerk telling them "don't get this one because it has a weak CPU". Its the kind of idiotic fanboy reaction that makes you want to break something, but I guarantee this is going to happen. Nintendo could have avoided it by opting for a more powerful CPU, though. Even though the one they are using is probably fine from a practical standpoint, you have to keep in mind how the market is going to view it. Idiotic or not, the way people view your product does matter.

Nintendo designed the Gamecube to be a purple lunchbox which wasn't a design people seemed to approve of. The Gamecube had some really awesome games, though. But my point is people dismissed it and refused to buy it just because of how it looked. Judging a book (or console) by its cover is a stupid thing to do, but it cost Nintendo market share. I'm not saying that alone is the reason the Gamecube didn't do better than it did, but it was a factor. My point is simply that you don't want to give any reason for people to trash your product. How people SHOULD think and how they WILL think are two very different things. I agree completely people shouldn't trash a product over superficial reasons, but they do. This is a fact and facts shouldn't be ignored just because they are inconvenient.

I... completely agree with you? Wow. Never thought I'd say that.


But how could Nintendo be so stupid to make a CPU that is weaker than the CPU's in 6-year-old consoles? How is that even possible? They had to have deliberately underclocked the CPU to make it weaker...

[tendoboy1984]

Games on the Wii U may be impressive, but the CPU will never be impressive. Developers can work around the limitations and with the help of the GPGPU manage to finagel a really impressive piece of software on the system, but this will be in spite of the CPU and not because of it.

Every single console has had some form of hardware limitation. Each console is built differently, there are no standards that companies have to rely on.


- The Xbox 360 has small disc capacity for the size of it's games.
- The PS3 512MB of RAM is divided in half (half for video RAM, half for system RAM).
- The PS3's Cell processor is needlessly complex and a bitch to program software for.
- The 3DS has only 1 analog pad and no HD screen.
- The PS Vita has tiny, crappy analog sticks that are essentially useless.
- The Wii has terribly outdated hardware.
- The new Wii U has a slower CPU than 6-year-old consoles (how is that even possible?).

[Adrock]

If a clerk hates something enough to discourage consumers from buying it, they would find anything to do so. So, yeah, that will happen in extreme cases, but it would happen with or without the slower clock speed.

You know what else will happen?

Customer: Hi, I would like a Wii U.
Gamestop Employee: Are you sure? **Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit**.
Customer: Okay, well, then... can I get Mario on Playstation?
Gamestop Employee: Wh- No... that's only on the Wii U...
Customer: Great, then shut the **** up and get me a Wii U.

Anyone can point to these very specific scenarios. How often are either to happen that way? The people who want a Wii U are going to get a Wii U. The uninformed are probably getting it for someone else. The people who don't want it couldn't be convinced anyway. Are we making mountains out of mole hills? Ehh, probably.

[Chozo Ghost]

As far as the clock speed goes, I think the reason Nintendo ratcheted it down is to keep it running cooler so as to prevent the RROD and YLOD problems which have plagued the PS360 this generation. This is probably a good thing overall because a high failure rate isn't in anyone's best interest.

But, clock speed isn't the only reason why the Wii U's CPU is inferior. Megabyte mentioned it has less threads. Is there any good reason for this? I can't think of any. Does that have something to do with keeping it running cool? Or did Nintendo simply cheap out and go with an inferior processor to save on manufacturing costs?

[tendoboy1984]

As far as the clock speed goes, I think the reason Nintendo ratcheted it down is to keep it running cooler so as to prevent the RROD and YLOD problems which have plagued the PS360 this generation. This is probably a good thing overall because a high failure rate isn't in anyone's best interest.

But, clock speed isn't the only reason why the Wii U's CPU is inferior. Megabyte mentioned it has less threads. Is there any good reason for this? I can't think of any. Does that have something to do with keeping it running cool? Or did Nintendo simply cheap out and go with an inferior processor to save on manufacturing costs?

But the PS3 and Xbox 360 use 6-year-old hardware. How can the Wii U's more modern CPU (allegedly made in 2009) be weaker than that? Granted, the PS3's Cell processor was way ahead of its time, but still, Nintendo should be able to crank out a CPU that is [at least] more powerful than the Xbox 360's old "Xenon" chip.


That's like stating the PS1 has a weaker CPU than a Super NES. It's impossible to have a weaker CPU, given what the console is capable of doing and the timeframe when the console was made.

[ThePerm]

comparing the clockspeed of the wii u to the one of the 360 is like comparing the clockspeed of the snes to the genesis.

[tendoboy1984]

comparing the clockspeed of the wii u to the one of the 360 is like comparing the clockspeed of the snes to the genesis.

You mean like comparing the Dreamcast to the N64, since the Wii U and Xbox 360 are from two separate generations.

[ThePerm]

no, i mean like snes to genesis. Snes had a better overall processor, but a slower clockspeed.

[tendoboy1984]

no, i mean like snes to genesis. Snes had a better overall processor, but a slower clockspeed.

But that's not a fair comparison, since the SNES and Genesis were from the same generation, and were released a few years apart. The Wii U is 6 years newer than the Xbox 360, yet its CPU is supposedly slower (less powerful)? How is that possible?

[ThePerm]

theres a wall in processors, you can't go over 3ghz or else the processor becomes a small stove. Processors can float anywhere from 1-3 ghz and its not a big deal. What matters is how many Gigaflops or Teraflops it does.

There is no such thing as a real generation of processors. We may not be in the "next generation" for 10 years. Even ps4 and 720 might not be that different from their predecessors. The Leaps are getting smaller and smaller until they hit a wall.

[Luigi Dude]

no, i mean like snes to genesis. Snes had a better overall processor, but a slower clockspeed.

Yeah and the best looking SNES games annihilated anything from the Genesis, which shows people shouldn't care too much about a slower CPU since the rest of the Wii U hardware will allow it to produce games beyond what the 360 can do.

[tendoboy1984]

no, i mean like snes to genesis. Snes had a better overall processor, but a slower clockspeed.

Yeah and the best looking SNES games annihilated anything from the Genesis, which shows people shouldn't care too much about a slower CPU since the rest of the Wii U hardware will allow it to produce games beyond what the 360 can do.

The PS3 can produce games beyond what the 360 can do (Uncharted series, God of War 3, Killzone 2 and 3), yet that still hasn't affected its sales much.

[Adrock]

PS3 is closer than it should be considering it launched a year later and at $599 US Dollars.

[Mannypon]

For everyone discussing the significance of these "revelations" about the CPU, I would like to point out that the WiiU's CPU is an "out of order" processer whereas all processors used so far have been an "in order" processer.  Now I can't get into detail on how thats an improvement over the other as I'm not a tech head but based on what I've read on Neogaf between the more knowledgable members, and a few google searchs on the topic, an OoO processer and GPGPU is what the next gen are aming for.  I would assume that it having a slower clock speed, being OoO, and the general approach of having the GPGPU handle some of the processing is whats cauasing these "issues" to arrise with developers.  I'm sure once developement transitions fully to the next gen, the WiiU will benefit from all developers tailering their code to these new setups.