Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[TJ Spyke]

You can take it out with you, it just wont do anything since the Wii U system actually processes and handles the game, the GamePad basically just receives the video.

[Kytim89]

You can take it out with you, it just wont do anything since the Wii U system actually processes and handles the game, the GamePad basically just receives the video.

I actually knew that, but I wanted something more.

[Kairon]

If Nintendo were to ever create an online account system would it be possible to take the Wii U Gamepad outside the house on the go and link up to wi-fi hotspots and have games stream to the tablet controller? Another question: how bright is the Gampad's screen? Could someone create a custom backlight simialr to that of the original GBA?

Could the PS3 and Vita do something like that? Man... imagine $300 controllers and $600 systems...

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was just looking for an excuse to take my Gamepad out like a normal handheld.

You could get a backpack and put a really really large rechargable battery in there along with a Wii U hooked up to it. then you can take out the uMote and use it like a handheld wherever you go.

[Sarail]

Manny, that actually looks amazingly cleaned up from the blurry, low-res Wii version. Holy cripes, it's like night and day, really. The character models are nice and smooth with no jaggies, and the animation looked great. My only concern was that some of the environmental pieces had low poly counts - but as you said, it's probably to keep both versions of the game in sync on the servers. I'm cool with that. Cool cool cool.

Very excited now. Also, the appeal of being able to play an MMO from the comfort of my bed before I conk out for the night is quite nice. I'll be doing LOTS of that if DQX does indeed make its way to North American shores.

Good stuff.

[Mannypon]

Manny, that actually looks amazingly cleaned up from the blurry, low-res Wii version. Holy cripes, it's like night and day, really. The character models are nice and smooth with no jaggies, and the animation looked great. My only concern was that some of the environmental pieces had low poly counts - but as you said, it's probably to keep both versions of the game in sync on the servers. I'm cool with that. Cool cool cool.

Very excited now. Also, the appeal of being able to play an MMO from the comfort of my bed before I conk out for the night is quite nice. I'll be doing LOTS of that if DQX does indeed make its way to North American shores.

Good stuff.

Finally lol, someone responded to that post.  We've been waiting for so long for info on DQX on WiiU, we finally have something and all I hear is crickets lol.  The game does look good as I said after my initial disappointment.  I particularly like the surrounding environments and how they look.  The night sky, the trees and the mountains off in the distance really call to be explored.  I always loved just wandering of in DQ8, there was always a secret to be found.  The animation is smooth as hell too.  We still need some direct capture footage though to really do the visuals justice I think.  I'm suprised a WiiU trailer hasn't gone up.  I would've thought SE would've had a new trailer for this presentation showcasing the WiiU and its features relating to this game. 

[Caterkiller]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-21-a-chat-about-the-power-of-the-wii-u-with-the-developer-of-a-wii-u-launch-title


Whole thing below.

We know the Wii U's IBM-made CPU, made up of three Power PC cores, is one of its weaknesses, at least compared to the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. But how will this impact the performance of Wii U games?

At the Tokyo Game Show earlier today Eurogamer spoke with the developer of one of the biggest Wii U launch games, Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper, to find out.

The playable version of the game on the Tokyo Game Show floor is not up to the performance levels of past Dynasty Warriors games in terms of frame rate and number of enemies on screen, and is shown up considerably by Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires, the PS3 exclusive also playable on publisher Tecmo Koei's stand.

Akihiro Suzuki, producer of the Dynasty Warriors franchise, admitted this was the case when quizzed by Eurogamer, and pointed to the Wii U's CPU by way of explanation.

"One of the weaknesses of the Wii U compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 is the CPU power is a little bit less," he said. "So for games in the Warriors series, including Dynasty Warriors and Warriors Orochi, when you have a lot of enemies coming at you at once, the performance tends to be affected because of the CPU.

"Dealing with that is a challenge."

The exact specifications of the CPU, including clock speed, remain undisclosed for now, but developers, including those Eurogamer spoke to for an investigation into the power of the Wii U, have confirmed it's slower than the CPU inside both the PS3 and Xbox 360.

But one of its strengths is said to be its custom AMD 7 series GPU, and the 1GB of RAM available to games: double that of the PS3 and Xbox 360.

This, Suzuki said, means the Orochi development team had the opportunity to create visuals better than those possible on PS3 and Xbox 360.

"Developing on new hardware in itself was a challenge, and also making that launch date was a challenge," he said. "But from a visual standpoint, based on the performance of the Wii U, we knew the game had the capability of having much better graphics than games on PS3 and Xbox 360. Make no mistake, from a visual standpoint, it is able to produce better graphics. So our challenge was to make a higher quality graphics. We were able to meet that."

Suzuki vowed that the performance of the game will be improved before release. He better get his skates on: Warriors Orochi 3 launches alongside the Wii U on 30th November.

"While the visuals are great, as is being able to improve them, we had to deal with the lower CPU power and how we can get around that issue," he said.

"Actually, we're still working on that. If you see the demo on the show floor and you try it, you'll probably feel it's not up to the PS3 level. But we're working on it!"

As part of Eurogamer's investigation into the power of the Wii U, Digital Foundry boss Richard Leadbetter expressed concern about the Nintendo console. "It'll be interesting to see how future Face-Offs work out," he pondered. "I expect that GPU focused games will benefit from smoother frame-rates and lower levels of screen-tear, but cross-platform titles highly dependent on CPU power could end up noticeably worse off."

According to Suzuki, the main issue is that developers are still wrapping their head around the CPU, and so are yet to work out how best to use it.

"For the PS3 it has multiple CPUs and an SPU, so you can calculate the various motions of the characters on the CPU so overall it runs smoothly," Suzuki explained. "The Xbox 360 CPUs are formulated so they can spread out the processing power so things run efficiently.

"With the Wii U being new hardware, we're still getting used to developing for it, so there are still a lot of things we don't know yet to bring out the most of the processing power. There's a lot that still needs to be explored in that area."

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's set up to use the GPGPU for a portion of the processing. Once they figure out how to offload some of the usual CPU task to the GPGPU, then they should see a noticeable difference in output for the system.

[Tamazoid]

From what I understand it will always be a difficulty making straight ports from PS3/360 with the Wii U's CPU. Once developers start making games from the ground up for the Wii U we will begin to see the noticeable differences.

[Enner]

Interesting report on the CPU.

It seems that Nintendo has always had modest CPUs in their systems paired with graphical hardware capable of neat tricks.

[Spak-Spang]

Well...it kinda worries me that the CPU is actually less powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3...I dunno why Nintendo didn't...couldn't have had a CPU processor more powerful and keep the same price point.  That said...I dunno much about programming and the importance of all the hardware components so...I will not pretend to be an expert.

[Adrock]

It's an odd choice on paper. One would think Nintendo would have at least put it on par with whichever console's CPU 3rd parties preferred, PS3 or 360. I wonder what the reasoning is. I'm not really concerned about the Wii U though. Like BlackNMild said and from what I've read, the GPGPU is pretty nice and is meant to handle some of the processing. It's just a different setup from what's on PS3/360. The CPU probably isn't grossly slower.

[Spak-Spang]

True...I am just concerned...because being under powered or around the same as the current generation...means next generation is even further behind.  Nintendo may be setting itself up again for a system that is a full generation behind in power compared to the competition...now I am not that concerned with that as long as the games are fun.

I am even less concerned with that...if MS and Sony won't launch their new systems until 2014...but it will be concerning to some gamers...and it could mean Nintendo is only going to get another 6 year console system...and not what others would hope for a 7-8 year console generation. 

[Adrock]

I'm not worried. I'd be surprised if Sony and Microsoft unveil and launch new hardware next year. That's a quicker turnaround than we're used to. By now, you would think we would have heard something more concrete than some rumors, especially since Sony can't keep anything a secret.

On top of that, there are a lot of great titles coming out next year. 3rd party development hasn't slowed like it usually does when new hardware is on the horizon. That's a good sign because unlike the Wii, the Wii U will enjoy current ports so as long as developers are making PS3/360 games. Wii U seems more like a transitionary console; it's between the current and next generation. It should get at least 2-3 years of decent to good support, more depending how how 3rd parties feel about adopting new hardware. More importantly, even if Wii U hardware gets outclassed by the next generation PS/Xbox, the disparity won't be nearly as severe. I look at a game like The Last of Us and no matter how powerful PSFour is, that game will always look amazing. And the Wii U is capable of better. It won't be a repeat of the Wii. I just wonder if Nintendo would rather have the juggernaut hardware sales or better 3rd party support, if they could only pick one (they won't see a repeat of the Wii's sales). The answer is much easier for Nintendo fans.

[Kytim89]

I want robust third party support for all of Nintendo's consoles for the next ten years. The days of Nintendo fans sitting on one side of the fence and wondering how it could be on the other should be over once the Wii U launches. What makes me most excited about the Wii U is potential marriage between the quality of the Wii's first and third party titles with those of the current PS3/360 first and third party games. It is a good reason to be optimistic and have hope for the Wii.

[BranDonk Kong]

Interesting report on the CPU.

It seems that Nintendo has always had modest CPUs in their systems paired with graphical hardware capable of neat tricks.

The GameCube's CPU "power" was equal to that of the original Xbox. Developers need to just be less lazy and change their code to be optimized for the Wii U's CPU, and not just depend on the clock speed to take care of everything...Assassin's Creed didn't seem to have any of these screen-tearing issues, neither did Batman.

[ymeegod]

The hardware for the WII U is being starved for power, the whole system (which includes the Gamepad) runs at the highest 75 watts.  I can understand Nintendo wants to run a cool system but if Ninendo went with a different form factor (larger case with passive fans) then they could have run the CPU/GPU at much higher clock speeds).

At least you won't have to worry about "meltdowns" like the 360.   

[Ian Sane]

The CPU thing didn't give me any confidence.  Less than stuff that is six years old?  How is this not going to get completely creamed by the next gen?  The Wii U sounds like a really great competitor with the PS3 and Xbox 360 but that is borderline worthless.  So I'm sure we'll enjoy our third party support for two years or less and then go right back to the status quo.

To compete with the next gen, which is the gen the Wii U is supposed to be part of, it should beat the existing consoles on EVERYTHING.  This isn't like the Xbox coming out a year after the PS2 and having slightly superior hardware.  This is supposed to be like the Xbox 360 was to the PS2.  It's supposed to be a clear jump not a moderate improvement.

"Well third parties will just have to adapt and not be lazy."  Uh yeah, they don't do that.  If PS4/720 ports don't come easy to the Wii U they just won't make them just like they didn't bother with the Wii.

Nintendo seems to look at this as solely a Wii successor.  No, it needs to be a successor to ALL of the current systems including the PS3.

[RedBlue]

The CPU thing didn't give me any confidence.  Less than stuff that is six years old?  How is this not going to get completely creamed by the next gen?  The Wii U sounds like a really great competitor with the PS3 and Xbox 360 but that is borderline worthless.  So I'm sure we'll enjoy our third party support for two years or less and then go right back to the status quo.

To compete with the next gen, which is the gen the Wii U is supposed to be part of, it should beat the existing consoles on EVERYTHING.  This isn't like the Xbox coming out a year after the PS2 and having slightly superior hardware.  This is supposed to be like the Xbox 360 was to the PS2.  It's supposed to be a clear jump not a moderate improvement.

"Well third parties will just have to adapt and not be lazy."  Uh yeah, they don't do that.  If PS4/720 ports don't come easy to the Wii U they just won't make them just like they didn't bother with the Wii.

Nintendo seems to look at this as solely a Wii successor.  No, it needs to be a successor to ALL of the current systems including the PS3.

Sorry your logic is wrong. You really dont know what you are talking about. By your logic a core i5-3470T dual core 2.8GHz is worst then a pentium D 945 dual core 3.4 Ghz, because the pentium D has more GHz. We all know that is not true so until you know the full specs of the wii u you can't say it's performance is worst then the ps3 or xbox 360

[Fatty The Hutt]

sorry but with all this techno-jargon, CPU talk, you lot have this coming:
 

[Adrock]

What if 3rd parties don't want to support Microsoft and Sony's next generation consoles? Unlike Nintendo, they haven't proved they can support their hardware on 1st party titles alone so without 3rd parties, those new consoles would be kind of screwed. On top of that, I wonder what Sony and Microsoft would have if they launched next year considering their some of their major franchises are seeing releases in the next 6 months or so. Halo 4 is a 360 game coming out in November. God of War: Ascension is due in March. The Last of Us is due sometime in 2013. The turnaround for these teams is typically 2-3 years. Everyone seems to be doing fine as is. Wii U may get trounced by Orbis/Durango in terms of hardware, but unless everyone is ready and willing to move on, is this really a problem?

This current generation shattered a lot of expectations. A glorified last generation console with motion controls dominated hardware sales for like 4 straight years and merely held up in the last 2 only because it had no where to go except down. No one saw that coming. The other 2 leapfrogged probably close to an entire generation in terms of hardware to jumpstart the HD era and launched at freakishly high prices. Unlike expensive consoles in the past, it worked (in terms of sales, not profits). I don't want to get into the intracasies of why all that happened. My point is that maybe we should stop expecting history to repeat itself because we've already seen it not. That's part of the reason I'm not worried about the Wii U.

Wii U will probably not see the same sales dominance that the Wii did. Perhaps that's okay. And maybe Nintendo has the right idea by positioning the Wii U where it is. 6 years into a console generation usually has the hardware at like $100. The cheapest you can get a new 360 is double that. If Wii U was more powerful, it'd be more expensive. $300-$350 is a sweet spot for pricing consoles. People don't seem to mind paying that. It's a balance of power and cost.

Nintendo is likely not selling Wii U at cost or at a loss, but it's hard to argue with that method considering Nintendo has stayed in the game so long. Microsoft and Sony would be smart to consider a similar strategy with their next consoles. If they do, maybe Wii U won't get trounced. If they don't, Wii U games will hold up graphically far better than the Wii and it will be cheaper to boot. It's too early to tell if this will be an issue. Nintendo kept thumping the spec-don't-matter card. They were wrong in 2006. 2012 is a different story and each passing year is making that line sound more and more right.

[Ian Sane]

The CPU thing didn't give me any confidence.  Less than stuff that is six years old?  How is this not going to get completely creamed by the next gen?  The Wii U sounds like a really great competitor with the PS3 and Xbox 360 but that is borderline worthless.  So I'm sure we'll enjoy our third party support for two years or less and then go right back to the status quo.

To compete with the next gen, which is the gen the Wii U is supposed to be part of, it should beat the existing consoles on EVERYTHING.  This isn't like the Xbox coming out a year after the PS2 and having slightly superior hardware.  This is supposed to be like the Xbox 360 was to the PS2.  It's supposed to be a clear jump not a moderate improvement.

"Well third parties will just have to adapt and not be lazy."  Uh yeah, they don't do that.  If PS4/720 ports don't come easy to the Wii U they just won't make them just like they didn't bother with the Wii.

Nintendo seems to look at this as solely a Wii successor.  No, it needs to be a successor to ALL of the current systems including the PS3.

Sorry your logic is wrong. You really dont know what you are talking about. By your logic a core i5-3470T dual core 2.8GHz is worst then a pentium D 945 dual core 3.4 Ghz, because the pentium D has more GHz. We all know that is not true so until you know the full specs of the wii u you can't say it's performance is worst then the ps3 or xbox 360

My logic is based entirely on the dev, who is actually using the hardware, saying "hey this isn't as good".  He didn't say the Wii U has less GHz, he said it has less "power" which is rather generic but seems to speak to the overall performance of the CPU.  Neither of us know the specs but this dev does.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Wii U's CPU being **** should have been posted in a thread of its own. That is a pretty big and shocking revelation.

So it will have 1/4 the RAM of the PS420 with a CPU that is inferior to the PS360? At least with the 2GB of RAM that should offset the weak CPU to keep it at least on par with the PS360. But as far as keeping up with the PS420, that seems to be out of the question....

[Ceric]

I'm not worried because the Neo-Geo Exists.  That system with no hardware update went from looking terrible to looking into the next Gen.  Developers will find a way.  I was play a 10 year old Licensed PS2/GCN game this week and it looked like some of the stuff I've played on the PS3.  Not worried.

[Adrock]

And no mention of the GPGPU by either Ian or Chozo which is better than what's found either current console. Just as games should be optimized when ported from 360 to PS3 and vice versa, so should games ported to Wii U.