Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[MegaByte]

One problem with Adam permitting the use of certain power-ups is that it is bad storytelling.

I don't think it was a bad idea at its core, certainly better than some of the previous reasons for having to recollect all your power-ups. However, it wasn't used logically, which had major implications on the story. And perhaps they could have let you use your power-ups early, with the threatened consequences resulting.

[Chozo Ghost]

Megabyte, would the space station have blown up if Samus activated the Varia Suit earlier than authorized? I can see the logic in forbidding the use of the Super Missiles in particular, but the thing is eventually she does actually get to use them at the end and the space station doesn't get destroyed as a result.

[MegaByte]

No, that's why I said,

it wasn't used logically, which had major implications on the story.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Also signs of Metroid slowing sales wise was shown with Metroid Prime 2 and 3, which while successful were far from a runaway success for Nintendo, in fact if I recall the series has been in decline sales wise since the first game (MP2 and 3 were big dropoffs from the first, which is sad for MP3 considering the Wii's userbase). I don't think either MP1 or MP2 hit the 2 million mark. Not sure what the overall sales of Other M was, but did it cross the one million units mark?

According to Wikipedia MP2 sold 800,000 copies and MP3 has sold 1.31 million, although keep in mind those aren't current sales figures so it would be a bit more by now. But I think its obvious that MP3 has sold almost twice as much as MP2 did. Maybe not as much as MP1, but definitely more than MP2 so sales have definitely grown.

But Other M marks a huge decline or nose dive for the franchise. Here is what Wikipedia has to say:

By November 2010, Other M had yet to sell a "half a million" units in the United States, far below Nintendo's expectations.[92]

Now in 2012 maybe it has sold half a million by now, but regardless I'm sure its less than any of the Prime games. Its not because the series as a whole has been in a decline since MP2 because MP3 actually outsold MP2 by almost twice as much, so you can't say that. If you were to make a line chart comparing the sales of each Metroid game since MP1 it would go down and then up and then down again like a rollercoaster, but Other M would represent the lowest low the franchise has hit since... maybe the lowest ever, unless one of the earlier games sold more poorly, but I doubt it.

If MP3 has yet to hit the levels of MP1 which was on a console with a smaller userbase, that indicates the franchise is not doing as well as it once did and has declined since the first game. While I will give you that Other M isn't as successful as the others, the signs were already there that the series is shrinking in install base. I think that was the primary motivation of Nintendo with MP Other M (I seem to recall a quote from them that it was an attempt to expand the install base, just not sure if it was referring to Japan, North America, or just in general), just because they misfired with some flawed execution does not mean you jettison the idea the series needs to at least try to expand its base and evolve, if not for America, but the rest of the world as well, if I recall the series does poorly in Japan. I'd like to know how Other M did comparative to the MP games in Japan just out of curiosity, if there "gamble" at least helped it grow in Japan.


My guess is that they implemented the "activate weapons when needed" mechanic to mix things up again, but yeah it was extremely illogical most of the time and felt forced in regards to the story. But like Megabyte said, Samus having to get all her power ups again in previous games was getting kind of silly from a story stand point as well. I think a great challenge for the developers of the series would be to allow Samus access to all of her previously acquired weapons, and expand upon that, would force them to think about exciting NEW power ups and how to build obstacles that may not be traversed yet with her normal arsenal.

[Chozo Ghost]

If MP3 has yet to hit the levels of MP1 which was on a console with a smaller userbase, that indicates the franchise is not doing as well as it once did and has declined since the first game.

You are right. I was just pointing out that MP3 did actually do better (almost twice as well) as MP2, so in that sense it has grown. Both games did more poorly than MP1 of course, but at least MP3 gained most of the ground MP2 lost.

With Other M though, the sales seem to have imploded. I understand a lot of the changes they made were to try and get the Japanese market more on board, but that doesn't seem to have happened. If anything, by attempting to cater more to the Japanese, it seems to have only alienated itself in the only market where Metroid has ever been popular in, which would be North America.

[GoldenPhoenix]

If MP3 has yet to hit the levels of MP1 which was on a console with a smaller userbase, that indicates the franchise is not doing as well as it once did and has declined since the first game.

You are right. I was just pointing out that MP3 did actually do better (almost twice as well) as MP2, so in that sense it has grown. Both games did more poorly than MP1 of course, but at least MP3 gained most of the ground MP2 lost.

With Other M though, the sales seem to have imploded. I understand a lot of the changes they made were to try and get the Japanese market more on board, but that doesn't seem to have happened. If anything, by attempting to cater more to the Japanese, it seems to have only alienated itself in the only market where Metroid has ever been popular in, which would be North America.

Fair enough. Honestly I am interested to see if they will learn any lessons from the experience, and instead of backtracking completely, still try to evolve it, but do it smartly. Something like Link to the Past after Zelda 2, where it borrowed elements to evolve it properly due to the public not being thrilled with the game. Instead of, let's say (even though I LOVE the game), Twilight Princess where the negative public opinion (which has thankfully changed) of Wind Waker caused them to play things a little too safe with the next game, in many people's eyes. Also, please, like you said before, no more space stations, I was tired of space stations after Fusion!

[Luigi Dude]

Metroid: Other M did similar in sales to Zero Mission, even though Zero Mission was well beloved by the fanbase.  This shows it wasn' t the quality that hurt Other M but the fact that more people are interested in the Prime games then the more traditional Japanese ones.  This is something everyone has to remember when talking about the series.  When Nintendo revived it back in 2002 with Metroid Prime and Fusion, Prime sold way more then Fusion, which shows that most modern day gamers were more interested in the more western style First Person gameplay then the more Japanese 2D gameplay.  This is why in 2004 when Zero Mission and Prime 2 were released, even though both games feel in sales, Prime 2 still sold more even though Zero Mission was universally loved by the hardcore Metroid fans.

So now we go this gen where Prime 3 manages to increase some over Prime 2 but Other M stays around what Zero Mission sold.  Other M's gameplay is pretty much 2D Metroid in a 3rd person view which makes its more appealing to fans of Fusion and Zero Mission then the Prime games.  This shows that the Japanese style Metroid have a smaller userbase then the Prime games.  Hence for the next Metroid I'd expect Nintendo will release another Metroid Prime game since that's the more popular Metroid series with wider appeal.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo ends up having some western studio make a new Metroid Prime for the Wii U in the future since Retro is more then likely working on something different.

[Fatty The Hutt]

I was playing some more Donkey Kong Country Returns again rcently and, you know what?
 
I think the big secret game Retro is working on is DKC 3DS.
 
I base my speculation on the fact there is so much gameplay in DKCR that takes place on more than one plane. You are often barreling into the background, kind've like in Mutant Mudds. So, I think Retro's DK easily lends itself to further gameplay on the 3DS. It'd be, I suppose, relatively easy for them to do, too. They have the art assets and gameplay engine and whatnot already. They probably have leftover level ideas too, just like the Mario Galaxy team did, which led nicely into Galaxy 2.
 
Discuss.
 
(p.s., why is this in the WiiU thread? Well, folk have been a-speculating what Retro is up to and also everyone's been talking about Metroid. Made me think of this).

[Adrock]

Other M's gameplay is pretty much 2D Metroid in a 3rd person view which makes its more appealing to fans of Fusion and Zero Mission then the Prime games.  This shows that the Japanese style Metroid have a smaller userbase then the Prime games. Hence for the next Metroid I'd expect Nintendo will release another Metroid Prime game since that's the more popular Metroid series with wider appeal.

That's an interesting theory, Luigi Dude. I wonder what would happen if Nintendo commissioned WayForward Technologies to develop the next 2D Metroid. This is the same WayForward Technologies that made a better Contra 3 sequel than Konami so I have no doubt that they could easily make a new Super Metroid. If Nintendo specifically instructed them to do a 2D Metroid with a Western slant, would it sell like Prime or sell like Fusion?

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo ends up having some western studio make a new Metroid Prime for the Wii U in the future since Retro is more then likely working on something different.

I don't even know who should take up the reigns from Retro Studios. I feel like Nintendo should either invest heavily in expanding Retro Studios or just wait until they're finished developing whatever they're developing. It could be anything. I'd love to see what they could do with Mario but I'm just as eager to see them do something entirely new. It could even be Zelda. If Retro Studios made a one-off Steampunk Zelda...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Other M's gameplay is pretty much 2D Metroid in a 3rd person view which makes its more appealing to fans of Fusion and Zero Mission then the Prime games.  This shows that the Japanese style Metroid have a smaller userbase then the Prime games. Hence for the next Metroid I'd expect Nintendo will release another Metroid Prime game since that's the more popular Metroid series with wider appeal.

That's an interesting theory, Luigi Dude. I wonder what would happen if Nintendo commissioned WayForward Technologies to develop the next 2D Metroid. This is the same WayForward Technologies that made a better Contra 3 sequel than Konami so I have no doubt that they could easily make a new Super Metroid. If Nintendo specifically instructed them to do a 2D Metroid with a Western slant, would it sell like Prime or sell like Fusion?

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo ends up having some western studio make a new Metroid Prime for the Wii U in the future since Retro is more then likely working on something different.

I don't even know who should take up the reigns from Retro Studios. I feel like Nintendo should either invest heavily in expanding Retro Studios or just wait until they're finished developing whatever they're developing. It could be anything. I'd love to see what they could do with Mario but I'm just as eager to see them do something entirely new. It could even be Zelda. If Retro Studios made a one-off Steampunk Zelda...

Nintendo must have some studio out there that could do the Metroid franchise justice. I honestly don't want to see Retro stuck doing Metroid games, I want to see their talents used in other ways, like being given freedom to make a new IP which is something I've wanted to see from them ever since Metrod Prime 1. Maybe team up with another 3rd party studio? Or even find a relatively unknown or up and coming studio with talent again (like Retro) and hand it over to them.

[Caterkiller]

http://www.destructoid.com/-fat-chance-of-crysis-3-coming-to-the-wii-u-226413.phtml

Fat chance of Crysis 3 coming to Wii U!

As for Wii U support, Rasmus told us there's "not a fat chance" of the game appearing on Nintendo's next system. Probably for the best, I still don't see how first-person shooters will be any fun on that hulking controller.

[GoldenPhoenix]

http://www.destructoid.com/-fat-chance-of-crysis-3-coming-to-the-wii-u-226413.phtml

Fat chance of Crysis 3 coming to Wii U!

As for Wii U support, Rasmus told us there's "not a fat chance" of the game appearing on Nintendo's next system. Probably for the best, I still don't see how first-person shooters will be any fun on that hulking controller.

Excellent "journalism" there as well about the Wii U controller ::eye roll::. Even if the Wii U controller sucks comfort wise(which I doubt it will) there is still the Wii Mote if all else fails (Honestly I'd rather play a FPS on the Wiimote then a game pad). While I haven't watched the video interview, I've heard from some others that it doesn't sound as bad in context.


Edit:

Managed to watch the interview (which was torture), in the context of the interview it sounded like it wasn't in the cards for Wii U because they are focusing on the PS3/360 versions. It is tough to tell what he meant by "fat chance" since English doesn't appear to be his primary language, but it may reference the fact that right now they are focusing on the current platforms. It makes little sense from a technological standpoint to not release it on Wii U since at the bare minimum it would be on equal ground with 360., who knows maybe he misunderstood what was asked and was thinking Wii, not Wii U. He did say something to the effect of "its not possible" (I'd double check but watching the interview once was painful enough). Besides I don't think he has the final say over which systems the game is being ported to, he is just the creative director.

[Adrock]

It sounded more like they don't have the manpower to make Crysis 3 for Wii U which doesn't mean it will never happen or that the Wii U can't handle the game; just that it's being made for PS3, 360 and PC so that's what they're focusing on.

[GoldenPhoenix]

It sounded more like they don't have the manpower to make Crysis 3 for Wii U which doesn't mean it will never happen or that the Wii U can't handle the game; just that it's being made for PS3, 360 and PC so that's what they're focusing on.

I can understand that interpretation, whatever it is, looks like, once again something was quoted out of context by the gaming sites (that "journalist" at destructoid was the primary cause of the misinterpretation in his write up of his interview)

[Louieturkey]

Samus was never really a character other than being a figure in a spacesuit with a gun arm that is revealed to be a woman at the end of the first game.  Link and Mario aren't really characters either.  They come from an era where the story telling in videogames was limited.  As a result the fans would largely fill in the blanks themselves for the "character" on the screen.  Realistically Mario, Link & Samus were me as I largely grafted my own personality to them when I first played the older games.

Whatever Samus Sakamoto had in his head was always going to risk being inferior to the one in the fans' heads.  A character like Boba Fett is cool precisely because of how little is revealed to the audience.  The audience just sees some superficially cool elements and then fills in the gaps.  The WORST thing to do when introducing a mysterious character like that is to fill in the gaps because it is so hard to meet expectations.  That's pretty much the biggest problem with the Star Wars prequels.  Every fan had just spent 20 years filling in the gaps themselves about the Clone Wars and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.  So then George Lucas told everyone the official story and it didn't measure up and backlash ensued.  Metroid is the same thing.  Sakamoto's vision of Samus does not measure up to that of the fans.

I'm not saying that we should have one dimensional heroes but I think it would work better if new IP was used for that.  Olimar has a real backstory and no one bitches about it because there was never some glorified player avatar of Olimar that we all got attached to.

Befor I continue reading (yes I am drunk), I agreee with everything Ian said here.

[FZeroBoyo]

I was playing some more Donkey Kong Country Returns again rcently and, you know what?
 
I think the big secret game Retro is working on is DKC 3DS.
 
I base my speculation on the fact there is so much gameplay in DKCR that takes place on more than one plane. You are often barreling into the background, kind've like in Mutant Mudds. So, I think Retro's DK easily lends itself to further gameplay on the 3DS. It'd be, I suppose, relatively easy for them to do, too. They have the art assets and gameplay engine and whatnot already. They probably have leftover level ideas too, just like the Mario Galaxy team did, which led nicely into Galaxy 2.
 
Discuss.
 
(p.s., why is this in the WiiU thread? Well, folk have been a-speculating what Retro is up to and also everyone's been talking about Metroid. Made me think of this).

And as the RFN crew discussed a while back, the style of DKCR could lend well to 3D in a fashion similar to Cave Story 3D.


In case Retro really is working on DK3D, all I ask is that it maintains some difficulty the first game had (and the ability to roll with a button press would be nice too).

[Caterkiller]

This is just too much! I really hope Wii U pulls a Wii in terms of sales.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-stung-by-smartphones-nintendo-set-to-report-firstever-operating-loss-20120425,0,7781797.story?

"Nintendo has to deal with the change and let Mario games be played on non-Nintendo devices," said Imazu. "I think it will take at least couple of years to see that."

Any drastic strategy shift that would dispatch the Mario brothers into the realm of Android and Apple's iOS operating system would likely require a change at the top of Nintendo, said Macquarie's Gibson. And that likely won't happen for a couple of years until the Wii U is shown to be a clear failure, he added.

[Sarail]

That's a little ballsy for him to say, don't you think? Sheesh, people... get over yourselves. Gah, this world is hysterically stupid because of people like that.

[Luigi Dude]

Any article that says Nintendo needs to develop for smart phones is complete sh!t that should just be ignored because the writer clearly has no idea what the f*ck they're talking about.  It's basically the usual Nintendo's going third party bullsh!t that's been all over the place for the last decade.  Plus the article completely ignores all the success the 3DS has been having since last fall which goes to show just how clueless these so called analysis are.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo's whole hook is their exclusive software.  Who would bother with their consoles if those properties weren't exclusive?  All the third party games are elsewhere.  Since the N64, Nintendo games have been the reason to own a Nintendo console.  If those games weren't exclusive, no one would buy Nintendo consoles.

The strong third party support on their handhelds makes the Nintendo exclusives a little less important but if Nintendo has to compete with smart phones then having their games on smart phones makes the 3DS obsolete.  The exclusivity of their games gives the 3DS value.  The 3DS wouldn't sell a lick if you could play Mario on an iPhone.

Now if handheld videogame systems are forced out of the market by smart phones then it might make sense for Nintendo to support them to get some piece of the handheld pie (like how MS has released games on Nintendo handhelds).  But even then they might want to "save" their exclusives for their console to maximize its potential.  Nintendo should only go third party if they become nothing but a third party.  As long as they release hardware, it's a stupid idea that would kill their competitive advantage.

Smart phones will never completely replace dedicated videogame systems because, um, smart phones suck balls for games.  The interface just isn't flexible enough.  Now smart phones could own casual gaming but anything with a little more meat to it needs something more specialized for gaming.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo registers some new domains

http://www.dailychanges.com/nstld.com/2012-04-22/

abmbuildingvalue.com
desanctiswmg.com
fireemblemawakening.com
gsdresourcecenter.com
newsupermariobros2.com
pokedex3dpro.com

and one more
NintendoAllAccess.com

[tendoboy1984]

Any article that says Nintendo needs to develop for smart phones is complete sh!t that should just be ignored because the writer clearly has no idea what the f*ck they're talking about.  It's basically the usual Nintendo's going third party bullsh!t that's been all over the place for the last decade.  Plus the article completely ignores all the success the 3DS has been having since last fall which goes to show just how clueless these so called analysis are.

I remember back when the GameCube was almost dead, there were rumors of Microsoft wanting to buy Nintendo.

[the asylum]

Nintendo registers some new domains

http://www.dailychanges.com/nstld.com/2012-04-22/

fireemblemawakening.com

Hell yes! Hello North American launch!

[nickmitch]

Any article that says Nintendo needs to develop for smart phones is complete sh!t that should just be ignored because the writer clearly has no idea what the f*ck they're talking about.  It's basically the usual Nintendo's going third party bullsh!t that's been all over the place for the last decade.  Plus the article completely ignores all the success the 3DS has been having since last fall which goes to show just how clueless these so called analysis are.

I remember back when the GameCube was almost dead, there were rumors of Microsoft wanting to buy Nintendo.

Of course MS would want to buy Nintendo. It'd be the greatest move that company made since that whole "Windows" thing. What better way to break in to an industry than by buying out one of the biggest players?

Smart phones will never completely replace dedicated videogame systems because, um, smart phones suck balls for games.  The interface just isn't flexible enough.  Now smart phones could own casual gaming but anything with a little more meat to it needs something more specialized for gaming.

People love to point to Infinity Blade as the main counter example to that argument. I've never played it, so I can't say anything about it except that the very idea of playing a meaty game on my iPhone appeals to me none. I'd rather buy a used Game Boy Micro and some old GBA cartridges. Sony's trying with the Xperia Play, but that's a phone designed with gaming parts, proving that you need to design a machine to play games and not just put games on a machine designed for being everything but a video game console.

[tendoboy1984]

People love to point to Infinity Blade as the main counter example to that argument. I've never played it, so I can't say anything about it except that the very idea of playing a meaty game on my iPhone appeals to me none. I'd rather buy a used Game Boy Micro and some old GBA cartridges. Sony's trying with the Xperia Play, but that's a phone designed with gaming parts, proving that you need to design a machine to play games and not just put games on a machine designed for being everything but a video game console.

Infinity Blade is nothing more than a graphical showcase. The actual gameplay is a rip-off of Punch Out (attack, dodge, attack, dodge). You fight a series of bosses, and after each victory, you can upgrade your weapons and stats.