Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[Ian Sane]

In fact, in terms of translating the series to a 3rd person 3D game, Other M played it a little too close. It's similar to how Lament of innocence just repositioned the camera and made 2D Castlevania into 3D Castlevania. It works but it doesn't work. Super Mario 64 didn't just put the camera behind Mario; it rethought everything from controls to level design to accommodate movement in the Z-axis. Come to think of it, Metroid Prime did the same.

That's a good point.  I've always felt that Nintendo were the masters of moving from 2D to 3D but I never really thought about how much they would change things to truly make it 3D instead of just repositioning the camera.

My big beef with Other M is the linear progression.  The non-linear element is what makes it Metroid for me.  If it was linear, Super Metroid would just play like Super Castlevania IV in space.  It also seemed unnecessary.  We already had Metroid in 3D and it was awesome.  So now Sakamoto tells us that the awesome Metroid Prime games don't really count and he'll do 3D Metroid the "right way"?  And then he shows everyone exactly how NOT to do a Metroid game.

[Chozo Ghost]

The N64 was the platform where established Nintendo franchises like Mario and Zelda made the transition to 3D, but Metroid fans were robbed of this transition because it never happened for Metroid. It wasn't until a generation later on the Gamecube when we got the Prime games, but instead of being like Super Mario 64 or Zelda OOT the Prime games were in first person. The 3D environments were done fine, but the perspective change was something never done with a Nintendo franchise before (or since, for that matter). If this perspective shift had been done with Mario or Zelda there would have been outrage among fans and people would be complaining. That's not to say a 1st person Mario or Zelda wouldn't have been good, or even great, but it would make these games very different than what the fans were familiar with. Now imagine a 1st person Mario or Zelda game was made, and then it became a permanent change for the series. Until Other M came out I was afraid all Metroid games were going to be in 1st person.

Prime has better gameplay and a far better story, but Other M has the 3rd person perspective. I would like to see a Metroid that takes everything great from Prime and fuses it with that perspective from Other M. That's the one and only thing from Other M which is worth keeping and exploring further in a future Metroid game. Everything else about Other M from the crappy story to the crying Samus to the where's waldo pixel hunts should be ditched, though.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Samus wasn't really "isolated" in Metroid Prime 3 either. The fact is that the series needs to evolve, and going back to a cliche "Me hero, me show no emotion, me isolated Rambo" protagonist seems like a step back in the wrong direction. Every great hero has emotional weakness at one time or another. Did Metroid Other M handle things like this well? No, not well, but I think the idea was sound behind what Sakamoto was trying. The era of the character being an avatar for the player is on its way out, which is all Samus was for the majority of the games. I'm sick of one dimensional heroes, and that includes Samus Aran.

[Adrock]

Samus being a Chatty Kathy broke the atmosphere of the entire series. Samus doesn't need to be silent and emotionless but she needs to shut the hell up when she's by herself. Only Morgan Freeman can get away with narrating a story these days. Look it up. It's been proven by science. Everyone else, especially Samus, needs to express themselves through actions and let the audience infer how she's feeling or what things mean. Other M was just so heavy handed with everything which is the exact opposite of what made Super Metroid so good. That game told you so little yet you understood so much. Find a new item. Look for a place to use it. Baby Metroid saves Samus. Saved its "mother." In Other M, it's like Sakamoto didn't understand how to use metaphors. As if Baby's Cry, The Baby and Bottle Ship weren't obvious enough, Samus has to explain what each means at least 5 times.

Despite how safe Other M played it gameplay wise, I still liked it. It's leaning in the right direction despite all of the missteps. The series does need to evolve but it's saddled with over 20 years of tradition. I wonder how far anyone can really push the series without breaking something. That said, I'm a fan of reboots. I feel like it can be liberating. However, there's no point if the people in charge don't really commit to it. Would anyone have the courage to start from scratch? Comb the series for the best elements and toss out the rest?

[Ian Sane]

Samus was never really a character other than being a figure in a spacesuit with a gun arm that is revealed to be a woman at the end of the first game.  Link and Mario aren't really characters either.  They come from an era where the story telling in videogames was limited.  As a result the fans would largely fill in the blanks themselves for the "character" on the screen.  Realistically Mario, Link & Samus were me as I largely grafted my own personality to them when I first played the older games.

Whatever Samus Sakamoto had in his head was always going to risk being inferior to the one in the fans' heads.  A character like Boba Fett is cool precisely because of how little is revealed to the audience.  The audience just sees some superficially cool elements and then fills in the gaps.  The WORST thing to do when introducing a mysterious character like that is to fill in the gaps because it is so hard to meet expectations.  That's pretty much the biggest problem with the Star Wars prequels.  Every fan had just spent 20 years filling in the gaps themselves about the Clone Wars and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.  So then George Lucas told everyone the official story and it didn't measure up and backlash ensued.  Metroid is the same thing.  Sakamoto's vision of Samus does not measure up to that of the fans.

I'm not saying that we should have one dimensional heroes but I think it would work better if new IP was used for that.  Olimar has a real backstory and no one bitches about it because there was never some glorified player avatar of Olimar that we all got attached to.

[MagicCow64]

Olimar is still silent, though. I depart from the mainstream of video game appreciation at this point, but I generally agree with that developer who called narratives and video games like combining chocolate and tuna fish. http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2012/02/10/david-jaffe-video-games-and-movies-go-together-like-chocolate-and-tuna-fish/

As much as reviewers bitch about movies feeling like video games nowadays, I think video games trying to feel like movies is a much bigger aesthetic crisis. The protagonist of a video should be a mostly silent avatar for the most part, excepting adventure-type games like Monkey Island and Layton. People who identify with Master Chief or Marcus Fenix's "personality" are fooling themselves or have issues with emotional stuntedness. 

Other M screwed the pooch by trying to make Samus into a fleshed-out character in the first place, though it certainly didn't help its case by taking the worst tack possible. (Also didn't help that it sucked as a game). I forget the term the guy used, but I read an essay about the strange place LA Noir occupied in the video/game narrative spread, and though the writer ultimately endorses the game, he brought up what to me is the salient problem with narrativized games: the disjunction between narrative portrayal and character actions. In LA Noir, your character is presented as an upright lawman, but in the game you're free to run over pedestrians and cause unlimited property damage. Nathan Drake is a presented as a likable rogue in the narrative, but in the game he's a mass murderer. Ezio is an honorable assassin who will stab innocent pedestrian's in between the ribs. There's fundamental disjunction that can only be resolved by making the gameplay so restrictive as to be moot, making the narrative so flippant and crass as to be repugnant, or by reducing the avatar's character so as to be a blank occupied by the player.

I favor the latter approach. I would point to Half Life 2 as an example of a good balance between narrative framing/incentive and player perspective, and one that a future Metroid title could emulate to breath more life into the game world while leaving Samus inscrutable. In Other M, we were fed awful cutscenes with Samus acting deferential, scared, crying, paralyzed, but during the actual game she runs through any assortment of terrible monsters and aliens without blinking, and we have past knowledge of her stoically facing down scenarios in past games that she now reacts to in a traumatized fashion. Not to mention the ridiculous narrative justification of the weapon restrictions.

Found the article, worth a read, though I fundamentally disagree with Bissell about video games as the next step in the evolution of story telling. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6625747/la-noire

[NWR_insanolord]

I think Mass Effect is another good example of a game that balances a fairly strong narrative with meaningful player interaction. It may not stick the landing at the end, but if games are the next step in storytelling, that's the first step.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think Metroid would have been better off if Samus had stayed quiet and never said a word, just like how it is with Link, and how it used to be with Mario before SM64. When Mario finally started talking for the first time a lot of people complained about the voice, but before then people could just use their imaginations about it. From SM64 onward using your imagination about Mario's voice was no longer possible.

But Link is still silent and so far Nintendo hasn't given him a voice. If they did, people would probably complain about it because from that point on the mystery would be gone and whether you like it or hate it it is what it is and you can't just use your imagination anymore.

But another problem when these characters start talking isn't just what they sound like, its also the fact they might not shut up. Other M is a perfect example of this. Not only is it heavy in dialogue, but you also have everything narrated and pointed out to you by Samus like Adrock said. Games shouldn't be narrated, but if they are it should be by Patrick Stewart and only at the beginning and the end of the game. It shouldn't be narrated all throughout, and certainly not by the very character you are playing.

Other M would have been better suited a movie than as a game, imho. Not just because of so much dialogue and cutscenes, but also because gameplay wise the game is very linear. You aren't really free to do a lot of exploration, and backtracking is out of the question (that's how the game killing glitch gets triggered). So Other M may as well have been a movie because it takes the freedom out of the hands of you the player and you are rigidly forced to do only certain things, whether its because thats what Adam orders or because the game is just linear, or whatever.

[Adrock]

I think all of Nintendo's characters including Link and Samus can be fleshed out. However, they have to respect the characters and more importantly, they have to respect the audience. Nintendo is so close to making Link his own character. He has a personality and he projects emotion to the player. He's not me anymore and that's fine but Nintendo has to liberate itself from the thinking that Link is still the player because he's not. Not anymore.

Other M would have been better suited a movie than as a game, imho. Not just because of so much dialogue and cutscenes, but also because gameplay wise the game is very linear.

I disagree. I think Other M would have been better if Team Ninja made it less of a movie and more like Super Metroid, namely by cutting 99% of the cutscenes and voice acting, axing NPCs (the Deleter? Ugh, you're the worst) and rearranging some of the plot points such as having Samus find the Varia Suit rather than run through Sector 3 (?) like an idiot until she had permission to not die. Most of the metaphors would be intact except it would have been presented artistically instead of Sakamoto ramming it down our throats like a pretentious dick. Start the game by giving the player some perspective of where things stand: "The last Metroid has been destroyed. The galaxy is at peace." Then, just let the player have at it.

[Stogi]

BRINGIng it baCK A fizzzzzzzzeffffff Time11111

It's honestly not hard to envision a new Metroid. Remember all those crazy ideas I had for Metroid Rev?

UH OH Bringing it back  for a fourth time!

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
I don't know who posted this....but these ideas are pretty badass

Seriously though, do you think Retro is thinking as revolutionary as we are?

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
What if:

Samus was fighting this giant boss, whose attack was to suck things in (including samus). As the beast prepares the attack, Samus would have to first grapple beam herself to a hook. Then as she's literally hanging horizontal to the ground, you have to manuever your cannon in the general direction of the beast and charge and fire a super missle. Meanwhile, your view is going hay-wire as you shake with turbulence.

I think that would be a pretty cool boss.

Or What if:

Samus grapples to an object and the only way to blow up said object is to aim at your grapple beam and shoot a charged Wave beam at it. The beam then clings to your grapple and follows it like a trail of lit gun powder.

Or What if:

There is a boss that travels furiously fast, is enourmously huge, and is the first water boss in Metroid history (i think). Samus must grapple to it's back and as she hangs on for dear life, water ski as she tries to kill the damn thing! It could dive under water and force you to shoot objects out of your way. Knowing Retro, it would be crazy! Water would spray in your face, obstructing your view.

Or What if:

Samus obtains the ability to use bombs outside of her ball state. She grabs a bomb with her left hand and with the nunchuck, chucks it where ever she likes. There are two settings for the bomb: Gravity and Anti-Gravity. Gravity acts like a normal grenade, while Anti-gravity floats upwards very slowly. While Gravity bombs blow up on impact, Anti-gravity bombs must be shot. Anti-Gravity bombs also cause a much bigger explosion.

Or What if:

One of Samus's grapple beam upgrades turns it into a laser beam type sword. Not necessarily to attack with since that is not Metroid at all, but more to cut through vegetation, carve through blast-proof windows, and things of that nature (another way to advance exploration basically).

Or What if:

One of Samus's grapple beam upgrades allows for more than one grapple. This would be used to pull multiple triggers (similar to how Zelda's boomerang can lock on to multiple items, and used in basically the same fashion; i.e. puzzle-solving, boss-battle, taming a gaint beast to fly or swim). OOOOOOOOH!!!! That would be amazing! Imagine taming a giant manitee to explore an ocean. You can still shoot with the Wiimote. The nunchuck, however, would steer the beast (or it could steer itself, probably better). Or what if you tamed a giant pterodactyl to fly and access a new area, only to be shot at by Flying Space Pirates. That sounds like a sh!tload of fun, especially if the beast reacted to the shooting and swooped and tried to dodge.

Alright, that's enough for one day. You guys get the jist of it anyways...

 

I find that the more fun games are, the less repetitive they seem. And Metroid doesn't have to fall into that trap like Zelda did. It still has a lot of potential because when it comes to its setting. Metroid has all the room it needs to change direction.

But for real. You guys need to remember that the Wii U allows for two different perspectives. It's not hard to imagine Having a FP and TP game; one perspective for each screen.

[Spak-Spang]

Yeah I actually tend to want as little story as possible in my games...or rather as little intrusive cut scenes, dialog and what not in the story. 

See in games I believe the player makes the story...or at least the a good game makes the player feel like they are making the story.  Games like Link to the Past have story...but it comes in very short bursts and a lot of the story happens from the player exploring and finding a new item...or a ghost, or secret...that they want to tell their friends about later. 

That is the power of games...and Metroid has always been a great series for that.  Hey did you find X power up in such and such area?  Did you explore this area?  Did you figure out the other solution to the spider ball puzzle that led to the energy tank?  All these make up the story to me more than seeing Samus talk about something.

[Oblivion]

I'm the complete opposite. I need a good story.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think everyone would agree with me when I say I hope the next Metroid takes place on an actual planet, as opposed to on some space station. The fact it was on a space station which simulated alien environments meant there was no Chozo statues, and no Chozo statues meant there was no artifacts for her to discover. That's the reason why they came up with the stupid idea of her having all these powers but having to get Adam's permission for each and every one of them to be authorized. Why didn't he just authorize all of them from the beginning? I know the reason was for gameplay, but it didn't feel right and it ruined the experience for me. Even though not having the powers and having to find and unlock them equals the same thing gameplay wise as having Adam authorize them, its far more fun and it makes a lot more sense. Its not as stupid as having them and refusing to use them, or be allowed to use them, even though it can save your life. WTF can go wrong if Samus was authorized to use the Varia Suit for crying out loud?! The Varia suit is defensive in nature and can't blow up the station or kill anyone on accident. Its not a weapon, so why was she not authorized to equip it? And if it wasn't equipped, where the hell was it? Did she keep that entire armor suit in her pocket the whole time? The whole thing made no sense and I couldn't look past that, and consequently my enjoyment of the game was adversely effected.

So yeah, get Samus off the space station and put her on some planet covered with ancient Chozo ruins. Then she can discover and equip those powers the way its supposed to be in Metroid.

I hope Nintendo and Sakamoto and Team Ninja all received a lot of flak over this. I hope there was so much negative criticism that they would never think of screwing that whole thing up again like they did. I know they were disappointed with Other M's long term sales, and that's good. Maybe they learned a lesson from that which won't be repeated in the next game.

[Kairon]

I'm no diehard fan but I don't see the need to reformat Metroid yet again, I think having two distinct branches, ala Mario, for the franchise is fine and as far as Nintendo needs to go right now:

-3D Branch: Metroid Prime
-(hypothetical) 2D Branch: Metroid Dread/New Super Metroid

In fact, wouldn't it be great if a 2D Metroid Wii U game existed which was capable of controller-only play? Hmmm... Maybe it could be a perfect flagship for a downloadable games service...

[Caterkiller]

Nintendo power is teasing something for their June issue. They say it's major. Is this big read stain a hint?

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/04/24/nintendo-power-teases-exciting-announcement/

As summer approaches, Nintendo Power will start to heat up with some exciting new revelations in the June issue, including a cover story for the generations. Don’t miss it or you’ll rue your fate, comrade.

[Chozo Ghost]

A picture of a big red blob that looks like Russia and calling readers "comrades". Could it be something to do with Communism?

ETA: I'll go out on a limb and guess it might be a third Battalion Wars game.

[Caterkiller]

Lot's of people claiming 007 Generations.

[Luigi Dude]

The bigger Nintendo Power news is the fact New Play Pikmin 2 is FINALLY coming to North America.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/pikmin_2_finally_reaches_north_american_wiis_soon

Seriously, this was the only New Play game I actually wanted since I never bought Pikmin 2 on the Gamecube and used copies cost over $60 now and so I was excited for this game but NOA never brought it over.  Well after 3 years it's finally coming over so now I can actually play Pikmin 2 without getting screwed with an overpriced used copy.

This also guarantees that Pikmin 3 will probably be coming out for the Wii U's launch or around it because I can't see why NOA would finally bring a Wii games that's over 3 years old unless they were trying to build up hype for the newest Pikmin.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't get why Reggie drags his feet on releasing stuff like this. Don't get me wrong... I'm glad he finally is bringing it over and it is better late than never, but why didn't this happen 3 years ago like it did in Europe? It used to be North America got stuff before Europe, but now its like the two regions have traded places.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Samus was never really a character other than being a figure in a spacesuit with a gun arm that is revealed to be a woman at the end of the first game.  Link and Mario aren't really characters either.  They come from an era where the story telling in videogames was limited.  As a result the fans would largely fill in the blanks themselves for the "character" on the screen.  Realistically Mario, Link & Samus were me as I largely grafted my own personality to them when I first played the older games.

Whatever Samus Sakamoto had in his head was always going to risk being inferior to the one in the fans' heads.  A character like Boba Fett is cool precisely because of how little is revealed to the audience.  The audience just sees some superficially cool elements and then fills in the gaps.  The WORST thing to do when introducing a mysterious character like that is to fill in the gaps because it is so hard to meet expectations.  That's pretty much the biggest problem with the Star Wars prequels.  Every fan had just spent 20 years filling in the gaps themselves about the Clone Wars and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.  So then George Lucas told everyone the official story and it didn't measure up and backlash ensued.  Metroid is the same thing.  Sakamoto's vision of Samus does not measure up to that of the fans.

I'm not saying that we should have one dimensional heroes but I think it would work better if new IP was used for that.  Olimar has a real backstory and no one bitches about it because there was never some glorified player avatar of Olimar that we all got attached to.

Samus being a Chatty Kathy broke the atmosphere of the entire series. Samus doesn't need to be silent and emotionless but she needs to shut the hell up when she's by herself. Only Morgan Freeman can get away with narrating a story these days. Look it up. It's been proven by science. Everyone else, especially Samus, needs to express themselves through actions and let the audience infer how she's feeling or what things mean. Other M was just so heavy handed with everything which is the exact opposite of what made Super Metroid so good. That game told you so little yet you understood so much. Find a new item. Look for a place to use it. Baby Metroid saves Samus. Saved its "mother." In Other M, it's like Sakamoto didn't understand how to use metaphors. As if Baby's Cry, The Baby and Bottle Ship weren't obvious enough, Samus has to explain what each means at least 5 times.

Despite how safe Other M played it gameplay wise, I still liked it. It's leaning in the right direction despite all of the missteps. The series does need to evolve but it's saddled with over 20 years of tradition. I wonder how far anyone can really push the series without breaking something. That said, I'm a fan of reboots. I feel like it can be liberating. However, there's no point if the people in charge don't really commit to it. Would anyone have the courage to start from scratch? Comb the series for the best elements and toss out the rest?

One thing to keep in mind, Other M was Nintendo's first real attempt at a full vocalized, cinematic interpretation of one of their primary franchises, yeah they had vocals in Star Fox 64 but not near the level as this. While I don't think it was great, I actually ENJOYED Other M, and I like how they fleshed out Samus, even if it had some major flaws that could be rectified in a later game, but I still don't like the fact that in this industry feminine traits in characters are frowned upon.


The fact is that when one fleshes out an avatar you are going to upset someone, because they have already imagined what the character was like, but that doesn't mean you forego evolving the character. The fact is that the Metroid series is just not that popular anymore, and the base is shrinking. Not to mention people are getting more and more tired of the "emotionless hero that kills things", that is why I love Mass Effect, you have some exciting, heroic (or evil) characters that have complexity.


Anyway, all of this is meandering why too far from the topic. I think why Reggie dragged his feet is that he really didn't expect to even bring the game to the U.S., but with the major slow down of Wii, he is having to scramble to pull games together to at least maintain some semblance of software sales until Wii U is released.

[Ian Sane]

One problem with Adam permitting the use of certain power-ups is that it is bad storytelling.  If Other M was a movie that plot point would be laughed at.  It's just a stupid idea outright.

NPC Pikmin 2 is the only NPC title I was actually cool with.  Due to Pikmin 2's obscurity it seemed less like an attempt to get people to double dip and more like just re-releasing a game that many people missed out on the first time.  That's my opinion of re-releases and remakes in general.  The obscurity of the game gives some idea as to the publisher's intention.  I'm not cool with trying to get people to buy the same game twice.  There is a big difference in re-releasing Chrono Trigger and Super Mario Bros.

With NPC Pikmin 2 suddenly appearing and all these Rainfall games coming out, I wonder if there was some shake-up at NOA.  Perhaps the "release jack **** in 2011, even though games exist that could be released, and watch Wii sales plummet" strategy was considered a mistake.  Though I suppose NOA could have realized that both 2011 and 2012 were going to be weak years for the Wii so they loaded everything they could into 2012 to help rebuild momentum for the Wii U.

[GoldenPhoenix]

One problem with Adam permitting the use of certain power-ups is that it is bad storytelling.  If Other M was a movie that plot point would be laughed at.  It's just a stupid idea outright.

NPC Pikmin 2 is the only NPC title I was actually cool with.  Due to Pikmin 2's obscurity it seemed less like an attempt to get people to double dip and more like just re-releasing a game that many people missed out on the first time.  That's my opinion of re-releases and remakes in general.  The obscurity of the game gives some idea as to the publisher's intention.  I'm not cool with trying to get people to buy the same game twice.  There is a big difference in re-releasing Chrono Trigger and Super Mario Bros.

With NPC Pikmin 2 suddenly appearing and all these Rainfall games coming out, I wonder if there was some shake-up at NOA.  Perhaps the "release jack **** in 2011, even though games exist that could be released, and watch Wii sales plummet" strategy was considered a mistake.  Though I suppose NOA could have realized that both 2011 and 2012 were going to be weak years for the Wii so they loaded everything they could into 2012 to help rebuild momentum for the Wii U.

Yeah, when the game sells for (what I see at Amazon) for $50 minimum it is a sign that you need to re release it again. I just see it as a greatest hits type thing in this case, kind of like rarer games were like on PS One that re issued. Since I have never played Pikmin 2, I am really excited to play it with Wii Controls.


Really though releasing old games doesn't bother me too much, not all of us are able to keep our older systems so it is nice to play a classic game on a newer console if possible.

[Chozo Ghost]

The fact is that the Metroid series is just not that popular anymore, and the base is shrinking.

According to Wikipedia Other M was the 9th best selling game in North America in September 2010 so we know the initial demand was very strong, but after that the sales were very disappointing and the game had no legs at all. I think the reason is word of mouth spread that the game was mediocre at best. So if the Metroid fan base is shrinking and the series isn't popular anymore, Other M would be the reason for that.

Not to mention people are getting more and more tired of the "emotionless hero that kills things", that is why I love Mass Effect, you have some exciting, heroic (or evil) characters that have complexity.

Its funny you say that because I've played Mass Effect and one thing I noticed is the voice acting for the male Shepard is flat and emotionless, and the character never smiles or shows any emotions whatsoever. The only complexity he has is due to the actions of the player. It is the player who decides if he is all evil, all good, or somewhere in between. The character itself by default is nothing. Its the players who make it something.

One problem with Adam permitting the use of certain power-ups is that it is bad storytelling.  If Other M was a movie that plot point would be laughed at.  It's just a stupid idea outright.

I agree, but you know whats equally as stupid or even more stupid? The fact that Samus goes along with it, even though her life and the success of the mission are put in jeopardy as a result. The fact some asshole gives an order that makes no sense just to be a dick isn't that far fetched, but someone actually obeying it even though their life is in peril is the really stupid thing about it.

I understand Samus looked up to Adam as some kind of father figure or whatever, but what kind of father would forbid his child from using something which could save their life? Would Samus not wear a seat belt if Adam told her not to? Would she jump off a cliff if he told her to? If he really has that much control over her she is either really stupid or he brainwashed her somehow.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The fact is that the Metroid series is just not that popular anymore, and the base is shrinking.

According to Wikipedia Other M was the 9th best selling game in North America in September 2010 so we know the initial demand was very strong, but after that the sales were very disappointing and the game had no legs at all. I think the reason is word of mouth spread that the game was mediocre at best. So if the Metroid fan base is shrinking and the series isn't popular anymore, Other M would be the reason for that.

Not to mention people are getting more and more tired of the "emotionless hero that kills things", that is why I love Mass Effect, you have some exciting, heroic (or evil) characters that have complexity.

Its funny you say that because I've played Mass Effect and one thing I noticed is the voice acting for the male Shepard is flat and emotionless, and the character never smiles or shows any emotions whatsoever. The only complexity he has is due to the actions of the player. It is the player who decides if he is all evil, all good, or somewhere in between. The character itself by default is nothing. Its the players who make it something.

One problem with Adam permitting the use of certain power-ups is that it is bad storytelling.  If Other M was a movie that plot point would be laughed at.  It's just a stupid idea outright.

I agree, but you know whats equally as stupid or even more stupid? The fact that Samus goes along with it, even though her life and the success of the mission are put in jeopardy as a result. The fact some asshole gives an order that makes no sense just to be a dick isn't that far fetched, but someone actually obeying it even though their life is in peril is the really stupid thing about it.

I understand Samus looked up to Adam as some kind of father figure or whatever, but what kind of father would forbid his child from using something which could save their life?

It is because the character IS an avatar (represented fully in the fact you can adjust their looks and gender) that reflects the emotional and moral complexity the player wishes to give him or her which influences events around you, that is the point! I was referencing the characters around Shepard and how your complexity as a character can influence them. There are few one dimensional characters in the game. But hey if you want to make Samus be able to make choices like Shepard that impact how the game flows, I'm all for that as well, it would be better then the cliche show no emotion hypermasculinized Rambo character that some want her to be, which is ironic since many thought how awesome that Samus was a woman, how that broke ground, now some just want to turn her into another generic no emotion super masculine character, with minimal feminine traits (which is a big no no in our society, particularly the gaming community, masculine traits are the only ones to be respected in the primary heroes of games, unless they are meant to be eye candy then it goes completely the other direction).


Also signs of Metroid slowing sales wise was shown with Metroid Prime 2 and 3, which while successful were far from a runaway success for Nintendo, in fact if I recall the series has been in decline sales wise since the first game (MP2 and 3 were big dropoffs from the first, which is sad for MP3 considering the Wii's userbase). I don't think either MP1 or MP2 hit the 2 million mark. Not sure what the overall sales of Other M was, but did it cross the one million units mark?

[Chozo Ghost]

Also signs of Metroid slowing sales wise was shown with Metroid Prime 2 and 3, which while successful were far from a runaway success for Nintendo, in fact if I recall the series has been in decline sales wise since the first game (MP2 and 3 were big dropoffs from the first, which is sad for MP3 considering the Wii's userbase). I don't think either MP1 or MP2 hit the 2 million mark. Not sure what the overall sales of Other M was, but did it cross the one million units mark?

According to Wikipedia MP2 sold 800,000 copies and MP3 has sold 1.31 million, although keep in mind those aren't current sales figures so it would be a bit more by now. But I think its obvious that MP3 has sold almost twice as much as MP2 did. Maybe not as much as MP1, but definitely more than MP2 so sales have definitely grown.

But Other M marks a huge decline or nose dive for the franchise. Here is what Wikipedia has to say:

By November 2010, Other M had yet to sell a "half a million" units in the United States, far below Nintendo's expectations.[92]

Now in 2012 maybe it has sold half a million by now, but regardless I'm sure its less than any of the Prime games. Its not because the series as a whole has been in a decline since MP2 because MP3 actually outsold MP2 by almost twice as much, so you can't say that. If you were to make a line chart comparing the sales of each Metroid game since MP1 it would go down and then up and then down again like a rollercoaster, but Other M would represent the lowest low the franchise has hit since... maybe the lowest ever, unless one of the earlier games sold more poorly, but I doubt it.