Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[Fatty The Hutt]

@chozo, I think you mean that you did not enjoy Other M, not that it was a bad game. I enjoyed it very much. The game mechanics may not have been for everybody but I don't think you can say they were objectively "bad". They were implemented very well, you may just not have digged the style they decided upon.
As for the cutscenes, they were very nice looking and told a mildly interesting story (or so I thought). But they were over-written (and over-wrought, from a western audience's perpspective) and the voice acting could have been better. But, I think they were a minor part of the overall game, not integral to it, like in an Uncharted game.
Anyway, this is an old debate and no one is going to convince anyone else to change their mind at this point, I am sure. But the rhetoric of "Other M was a bad game" is, I think you will agree, a bit unfair.

[NWR_insanolord]

Oh yeah? Well, it is ShyGuy policy not to put any stock in what Insanolord says. SICK BURN

I liked you better when you were dead.

[Stogi]

I don't know whether to laugh or cringe.

[Ian Sane]

Other M is a really bad METROID game.  Since it is supposed to be a Metroid game it might as well be E.T. for the Atari in my mind.  I hate it because it strips out the very elements of the Metroid series that made me a fan in the first place.  If you had the exact same game but without the Metroid IP I don't think anyone would say "Other M is a lot like Metroid."

I've been very negative about Metroid Prime Hunters as well which without any context is not a poorly made game.  Doesn't matter to me.  It says it's Metroid but it so clearly ain't.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't know whether to laugh or cringe.

If that's in response to me, I almost didn't post it because I was worried people would take it seriously. ShyGuy's one of my favorite posters here, and I only give him **** as a joke.

[Chozo Ghost]

Other M is a really bad METROID game.  Since it is supposed to be a Metroid game it might as well be E.T. for the Atari in my mind.  I hate it because it strips out the very elements of the Metroid series that made me a fan in the first place.  If you had the exact same game but without the Metroid IP I don't think anyone would say "Other M is a lot like Metroid."

I've been very negative about Metroid Prime Hunters as well which without any context is not a poorly made game.  Doesn't matter to me.  It says it's Metroid but it so clearly ain't.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on Other M. I have played games far worse than that, and if I were to take it as a stand alone game and rate it on a scale from A-F with F being a failure, I would probably give it like a D+ or C- or something like that. Its not a really horrible game overall and I wouldn't rate it as a failure, but its supposed to be a "Metroid" game and of every Metroid game this one is bar none the worst I've ever played. In contrast, I would give Super Metroid an A+ and all the other ones would get As or Bs on my scale.

To me Other M is the Metroid equivalent of what "Mario is Missing" or "Hotel Mario" is to the Mario franchise. And it is also interesting to note that those two horrible Mario games were ones which weren't actually made by or approved of by Nintendo or Miyamoto, so maybe its no coincidence that Other M is also a game made by a team of outsiders. Had Other M been a 1st or 2nd party title, maybe it would have turned out much better. Then again, I just don't like the story and the things Samus says or does in the cutscenes, and so no matter who made the game it probably was doomed to suck in these areas as long as Sakamoto was directing things.

[Adrock]

I liked Other M. I'll totally buying it again for $5.

[noname2200]

Other M has been discounted for as low as $4.99 new.

I'd be disappointed in any "major" title that was discounted that cheap and didn't hit a million in sales.

I don't doubt Metroid: Other M could have sold over a million copies.

 
 When a game gets discounted as quickly, severely, and deservedly (imo) as Other M, the only way it ever sells over a million is if its initial shipments totalled over a million. Judging by reports, I doubt it ever did. And Chartz does have a history of not only being off on their numbers, but also giving games extremely long tails. I haven't checked their numbers in years, but I remember in '09 they had the PS2 version of Resident Evil 4 selling about a million copies more than Capcom had ever shipped.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Hmm, let's see...
 
Samus Aran - check
suit powers added as you progress in the game - check
big boss battles - check
able to access different areas that you couldn't before getting new suit powers - check
backtracking - check
puzzle solving - check
morph ball - check
hidde missile tanks - check
bitchin' screw attack - check
metroids - check
 
Remind me again how Other M was not a Metroid game? Actually, don't bother, I said I didn't want to open the debate again. But then, I guess I just did. Okay, respond if ya want.
 
But, my basic point is that what you folks are REALLY saying is that you didn't like the game. Shrouding this by declaring it a "bad" game or a bad "Metroid" game is, I think you will agree, somewhat disingenuous.

[Kairon]

It's sorta like calling Adventures of Link not a Zelda game, right?

[Chozo Ghost]

Samus Aran - check

Whiny helpless baby who breaks down and cries and acts nothing like Samus but looks like her and is an offensive stereotype of women - check

suit powers added as you progress in the game - check

Suit powers you have from the beginning of the game but are all deactivated for no good reason and can only be reactivated when approved of by Adam, even though having them deactivated often results in Samus' death and jeopardizes the entire mission - check

backtracking - check

A game killing glitch that is triggered by backtracking which far later in the game results in a locked door which can never be opened which means the game is ruined and the only option is to start the game over from the beginning, resulting in hours of wasted effort - checkmate

puzzle solving - check

Pointless, boring, "where's waldo" style pixel hunts which have no place in a Metroid game - check

[noname2200]

Hmm, let's see...
 
Samus Aran - check
suit powers added as you progress in the game - check
big boss battles - check
able to access different areas that you couldn't before getting new suit powers - check
backtracking - check
puzzle solving - check
morph ball - check
hidde missile tanks - check
bitchin' screw attack - check
metroids - check
 
Remind me again how Other M was not a Metroid game? Actually, don't bother, I said I didn't want to open the debate again. But then, I guess I just did. Okay, respond if ya want.
 
But, my basic point is that what you folks are REALLY saying is that you didn't like the game. Shrouding this by declaring it a "bad" game or a bad "Metroid" game is, I think you will agree, somewhat disingenuous.

I'm afraid I don't follow. You're listing some superficial elements, not all of which are present in every Metroid game, and using that to form the backbone of your argument. Isn't that specious rhetoric in and of itself?

There's also a disconnect between your final paragraph and the rest of your post. I point this out not to be snarky, but because it really did throw me off for a second. If you want to debate the people who say Other M is "not a Metroid game," you're having a completely different argument than debating people who think Other M is a "bad" game or a "bad Metroid" game.

As an aside, I personally think Other M is both a somewhat bad game and a really bad Metroid game, but I won't say that it isn't a Metroid game.

It's sorta like calling Adventures of Link not a Zelda game, right?

 That's actually a really apt analogy.
 

[Tamazoid]

Samus Aran - check

Whiny helpless baby who breaks down and cries and acts nothing like Samus but looks like her and is an offensive stereotype of women - check
 

Well Samus is pretty whiny in Fusion so I don't see your problem.

[Lithium]

other m was rough around the edges but i dont think it was a bad game. What was objectively bad about it however was the script and voice acting, if it didn't have cutscenes and took away the first person parts maybe i wouldn't have been dissapointed.

[Caterkiller]

5 Minutes of Ninja Gaiden 3 footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R5PVFk_nSE0

So Ninja Gaiden guys, is this more of the same or does anything look different and exciting?

[Lithium]

-a flying ninja (maybe for the wii U version you have to collect shurikens while he's flying)
-a kamehameha that shoots out a shenron
-taking out a helicopter with a sword (take that, solid snake!)
-award winning writing ("should've expected nothing less...From a destroyer of lives")
-an old man who's chair turns into a giant robot and yet somehow doesn't crush his bones in the process.
-buckets of blood


this game looks incredibly stupid and juevinile....and i'll be there day one.

[broodwars]

5 Minutes of Ninja Gaiden 3 footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R5PVFk_nSE0

So Ninja Gaiden guys, is this more of the same or does anything look different and exciting?

Well, it certainly looks more stylish and fun than the Ninja Gaiden Sigma demo I played a few years ago.  From what I've heard, the big change this time around is that the game is being made so mere mortals can actually finish it, something that's causing a lot of whining from the Ninja Gaiden fans.  To me, making the difficulty less than utterly sadistic can only be a good thing.

[Chozo Ghost]

Samus Aran - check

Whiny helpless baby who breaks down and cries and acts nothing like Samus but looks like her and is an offensive stereotype of women - check
 

Well Samus is pretty whiny in Fusion so I don't see your problem.

Disregard that one if you want, but what about my other points?

[Caterkiller]

I'm pretty sure i'll be getting it day 1 as my first Ninja Gaiden title, I remember the creator or director(some guy) said this game was inspired by Zelda, but Zelda had major flaws or some such.

But the set up is nothing like Zelda right? Just run around and kill people in epic fashion?

[nickmitch]

Samus Aran - check

Whiny helpless baby who breaks down and cries and acts nothing like Samus but looks like her and is an offensive stereotype of women - check
 

Well Samus is pretty whiny in Fusion so I don't see your problem.

Disregard that one if you want, but what about my other points?

Well, Samus is fully powered up at the beginning most Metroid games but loses her powers in an explosion. I really don't see how "she decided not to use them out of respect for a commanding officer" is that much worse than "because she exploded again." Edit: also she doesn't die and fail the mission because of this if you, you know, beat the game.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, Samus is fully powered up at the beginning most Metroid games but loses her powers in an explosion. I really don't see how "she decided not to use them out of respect for a commanding officer" is that much worse than "because she exploded again."

It's much worse. Does it really need to be explained why having something taken away by force is vastly different than not using it by choice? They could have easily worked something into the story about how her powers got disabled somehow, and then throughout the game you pick up repair kits or something like that which could reenable them one by one. That would have been far better than Adam saying you "now have permission to use this which you had all along, but I prevented you from using just because I'm an asshole." When I first played the game I genuinely believed Adam was the bad guy and he was doing this just to sabotage the mission deliberately. Later cut scenes revealed he actually was a good guy, but there is never any good justification given for why he forbid Samus to use her powers.

The Super Missile I can sorta understand because it has the potential to damage the station, but give me one good reason why the Varia suit was forbidden.

Edit: also she doesn't die and fail the mission because of this if you, you know, beat the game.

I beat the game, but I died a number of times before that happened. The funny thing is when Samus dies Adam's voice comes on the intercom thing and seems distressed over her death, even though he could have prevented it in many of those cases by letting her use her powers. Again, give me a good reason why the Varia suit should be disabled. Adam doesn't authorize it until AFTER you have to go through some fire level where you take damage the whole way through. Why the hell wasn't it authorized BEFORE that?

I understand the point is to add a challenge to the game because having all powers from the beginning would make it too easy, but they needed to have some sort of plot device that logically explains why the powers are gone. Just having them disabled "because I say so" is a lame cheap shortcut way of doing it, and it genuinely does effect my enjoyment because I can't get past how stupid it is. Adam was an asshole for not letting Samus use even the defensive things like the Varia suit, and Samus was an idiot for going along with his orders.

Later in the game there is a point where she loses contact with Adam and enables one of her powers without his permission, but this was too little too late. She should have used her own discretion from the beginning. How the hell can she be a Bounty Hunter and yet need someone like Adam to hold her hand and order her around and tell her what to do? This ties in with the part where she breaks down and cries. If you take those two things together it makes you wonder what business does she have being a bounty hunter at all. This is nothing like how she is in all the other Metroid games... Sakamoto took the once mighty Samus character and twisted it into some feeble helpless baby who cries and needs a man like Adam to give her orders. This was incredibly offensive and sexist, imho.

[nickmitch]

I'd say it's about the same. Every time Samus loses her powers it's because she was in an explosion. Like every freaking time. Usually, she's somewhere where the Chozo left artifacts or some **** for her to regain her powers. In Fusion, they had to be sent to her one at a time instead of just all at once because I dunno, they just couldn't. Hell, they couldn't reuse the stations that gave her earlier powers just because.

And they do explain it. As poor as the writing and voice acting are, you can tell that Adam feels threatened by Samus. He's a control freak that wants to boss Samus around which is one of the reasons why she left in the first place. Samus, not having a father figure, still looks up to and respects Adam. She willingly powers down to make herself less intimidating. If she didn't, she'd easily run through the mission entire mission in the span of three hours and make everyone there look like worthless ass-hats. (Is ass-hats hyphenated? I dunno. Could be one word.) Instead, she goes through the mission sans powers in an attempt to prove to Adam that she can handle herself and that her strength doesn't just come from her suit but from herself. She might get scared at times, like we all do, but even without the biggest source of her strength she presses on. Proving once and for all that she is indeed good enough for the only person she ever looked up to as father.

[Mop it up]

I thought that in Fusion, the stations were destroyed by the SA-X.

[nickmitch]

Not every time, but stop remembering stop stuff. It's hurting my argument.

[Ceric]

I thought that in Fusion, the stations were destroyed by the SA-X.

If memory serves yes.  Plus I think Fusion had one of the better premises on why she was gaining powers.  She starts with essentially a totally new suit.