Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[Luigi Dude]

The thing is, a new Mario platformer is impossible for a 2012 launch.

Except that it's not.

You're assuming a lot of things, namely what each of Nintendo's development teams are working on. According to wikipedia, Tokyo EAD has 2 teams. Group 2, led by Yoshiaki Koizumi, developed Super Mario Galaxy 2 and is currently handling Super Mario 3D Land . Group 1, led by Takao Shimizu, hasn't been credited with a major title since Super Mario Galaxy (having previously worked on Donkey Kong Jungle Beat). That's 4 whole years without a released game. It's pretty hard to believe that they've been doing nothing in all that time except some application for DS. I'm not saying this is a definite but if we're talking an unannounced Mario game for the Wii U launch, some very telling signs point to Group 1.

Toyko EAD was just one group until Galaxy 1 was released, then they split into 2 groups.  This is why the Wikipedia page is misleading since they make it look like Galaxy 1 and 2 were made by two different teams.  The reality is the main people who made Galaxy 1 are the ones who made Galaxy 2 and now working on 3D Land.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/wii/super-mario-galaxy/credits

http://www.mobygames.com/game/wii/super-mario-galaxy-2/credits

Plus I'm not assuming anything when it comes to 3D Mario.  Yoshiaki Koizumi has literally been in charge of creating 3D Mario games since Sunshine.  Plus there's his quote from E3.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/07/wii-u-mario-zelda/

Nintendo showed a game called New Super Mario Bros. Mii at E3, but this 2-D series of games isn’t Koizumi’s department — he’s the head of the team that makes 3-D games like Super Mario Galaxy. Koizumi says his team will make a game in the series for Wii U, but that it’s still in the early phase.

[Adrock]

It's not uncommon for teams to split or for a producer to work on 2 projects simultaneously. Eiji Aonuma has been doing that for quite some time now, for example. In fact, Yoshiaki Koizumi probably has as well since there was likely overlap between Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Super Mario 3D Land. What we know is that there's still one group with one producer unaccounted for, another group finishing development on a major title and development on the game has already started (in some capacity). So, yeah, when you say a 2012 launch is impossible, you're still assuming a lot based on minimal information. What exactly does "early phase" mean? One could argue that Donkey Kong Country Returns was in the "early phase" of development in the beginning of 2010 when Retro Studios ramped up development and the game was released the same year. That description is so vague it's hard to even take seriously.

You linked to an article that talked about "Nintendo's storied secrecy." That's pretty much what we're facing right now. We don't know how long Nintendo has been experimenting with the idea of a Mario game on Wii U. We don't know how far into development the game was when wired.com conducted that interview. I'm not saying Nintendo absolutely will have a Mario game ready for launch. I just disagree that it's impossible because it isn't.  It's very possible. Nintendo pointed to the lack of strong titles for the 3DS as one of reasons sales didn't meet expectations. Nintendo is smart enough to know that Mario sells consoles and there's really no better game to have at launch than Mario. With that in mind, if Nintendo really wanted to have a Mario game at launch, the company would do everything in its power to make it happen. I don't think Nintendo would release it if it wasn't ready but it certainly has the talent and the resources to get it done.

[ThePerm]

I think Wii-U will likely have an awesome Pikmin and a half assed Smash Bros for launch or shortly after launch. Also, its hard to say what Retro has in the pipeline, or has had in the pipeline. As well received as DKCR was I can imagine they could have had something on the backburner, though that sounds awfully optimistic.  Silicon Knights is working on a couple of secret titles, but you can expect it to be **** unless Nintendo is involved, though if you unscaled the ED engine to a newer console you could shorten development time.

There is probably going to be several supporting third party games at launch, so if you can get get Assassins Creed and Pikmin at launch that sounds pretty good. That's one exclusive title, and a best version title. Just by being a decently powered system it will probably get a couple ports.

Also, back to Pikmin, Pikmin was and still is a pretty game, i can imagine a next gen version of the game looking gorgeous. Also, that Pokémon game I always wanted, I can dream right?

[BlackNMild2k1]

^Likely launch game

[Ceric]

Anyone see this? Photo realistic games engine by Square Enix?


http://games.ign.com/articles/119/1199800p1.html


If this can be done on the consoles now, how much more can the next gen systems produce visually?

That looks awesome but I like to see it working in motion with characters etc.

On the whole Steam thing, in an Ideal world this is what I would want happen.

1) Steam is allowed on the Wii U
2) Steam works a way to emulate PC for games
3) Nintendo puts in a moderately priced testing to get your game Wii U certified
4) Game is now available on Wii U priced and managed by Steam

That would be nice but probably not happening.

[Ian Sane]

Why does the Wii U NSMB look like a Gamecube game?  Is Nintendo unaware that videogame graphics did not peak in 2001?

Taking Wii models and putting them in Wii U games is unacceptable.  Sorry, that's just embarassingly lazy.  That's like NES sprites showing up in SNES games.

[Kytim89]

The reason I want Steam on Wii U is that third parties such as EA or Rockstar could put such games as the Mass Effect and GTA series on the Wii U and void the hassle of retailing games that are old. This way someone like myself who has never owned an HD system and is still stuck in 2006 in terms or playing games on the HD systems can catch up on over five years worth of quality titles.

[Adrock]

Ian, we've been over this. There's nothing wrong with the graphics. The edges are notably smooth unlike the DS and Wii NSMB games. Your issue is with the art design which is different from the graphics. I'm not a big fan of it either (it lacks charm and it's bright... very, very bright) but it looks exactly the way Nintendo wants it to look.

[Ian Sane]

Ian, we've been over this. There's nothing wrong with the graphics. The edges are notably smooth unlike the DS and Wii NSMB games. Your issue is with the art design which is different from the graphics. I'm not a big fan of it either (it lacks charm and it's bright... very, very bright) but it looks exactly the way Nintendo wants it to look.

Well, yeah, I know the Wii U can do some really great stuff.  Those Zelda screens were amazing.  But it seems like Nintendo decided what Mario was going to look like in Super Mario Sunshine and has stuck with that since, regardless of the hardware available to them.  SSB Melee Mario looks better than any EAD Mario and that's pretty sad.  Hell the pre-rendered graphics in Super Mario RPG look better (aside from resolution of course) and now a days you could probably make something that detailed in realtime.  The art design comes across as lazy, like Nintendo figures Mario will sell well anyway so no real effort has to be made to the games from a visual perspective.

And I'm not saying they need to make mature Mario or any such nonsense.  DKC Returns has a kid-friendly design and it just kills the **** out of any EAD Mario game in terms of looks.  You can make something kid-friendly that is also visually impressive.

I think it's less of looking exactly like Nintendo wants it to look and more of involving the amount of effort Nintendo wants to put into it.  They want Mario to look simple and plain because it takes less work.

[Adrock]

Retro Studios has some of the best art designers in the industry. I expect no less from them.

While I like Galaxy's art direction more than NSMB, something still seems missing. When you look at the backgrounds and the character designs of the 2.5D/3D games, they're pretty consistent with the old 2D SNES games. I suppose the art just jumps out more as sprites than polygons and I'm not sure how Nintendo can reconcile that. Maybe that's nostalgia talking though I seem to only feel this way about Mario, not Zelda or Metroid. I think Wii U is more than powerful enough hardware for Nintendo to do just about anything they want artistically with something that doesn't demand highly detailed models like Mario. That said, perhaps if Nintendo can make Mario look like an actual cartoon, rather than just cartoony, they might have something.

[Luigi Dude]

Well, yeah, I know the Wii U can do some really great stuff.  Those Zelda screens were amazing.  But it seems like Nintendo decided what Mario was going to look like in Super Mario Sunshine and has stuck with that since, regardless of the hardware available to them.  SSB Melee Mario looks better than any EAD Mario and that's pretty sad.  Hell the pre-rendered graphics in Super Mario RPG look better (aside from resolution of course) and now a days you could probably make something that detailed in realtime.  The art design comes across as lazy, like Nintendo figures Mario will sell well anyway so no real effort has to be made to the games from a visual perspective.

And I'm not saying they need to make mature Mario or any such nonsense.  DKC Returns has a kid-friendly design and it just kills the **** out of any EAD Mario game in terms of looks.  You can make something kid-friendly that is also visually impressive.

I think it's less of looking exactly like Nintendo wants it to look and more of involving the amount of effort Nintendo wants to put into it.  They want Mario to look simple and plain because it takes less work.

Jesus f*cking christ, do Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 not exist in your world or something?

Plus you do realize that New Super Mario Bros Wii U was just a concept demo at E3, not a real game.  Yes it'll eventually be a real game, but the demo shown at E3 was just an enhanced version of NSMB Wii to show off how the system can freely stream the game on the Wii U controller's screen.  The Zelda demo was made to show off the graphics which is why it looked much better.  All the other demos like Mario were just meant to show off what the Wii U controller could do, hence why those all looked like enhanced Wii games, because they were modified Wii games.

If your going to b!tch about Nintendo being lazy, at least wait until they officially reveal it as a real game that is actually made on final Wii U hardware.

[Chozo Ghost]

Why does the Wii U NSMB look like a Gamecube game?  Is Nintendo unaware that videogame graphics did not peak in 2001?

Taking Wii models and putting them in Wii U games is unacceptable.  Sorry, that's just embarassingly lazy.  That's like NES sprites showing up in SNES games.

My guess is this game was probably originally designed as NSMB2 and intended to be released on the Wii, so it was designed for the Wii but was later moved to the Wii U instead, just like Pikmin 3 and apparently a number of other titles. That's why we are seeing such a bad drought this year on the Wii, because these games which were originally earmarked for the Wii in its final year are instead becoming Wii U launch titles. Its the only way Nintendo will be able to get a decent launch lineup cobbled together in time.

So if the graphics look like something for the Wii, that's probably because that's literally the system it was designed for. It may or may not get fixed up further by the time the game launches, but my concern is with those stupid Miis. I hate those things, and in that picture they don't look like they've improved one iota since the Wii.

[Adrock]

For an eventual sequel to NSMB, I hope Nintendo makes Wario and Daisy playable since Peach will forget she's a total badass and get kidnapped again. Sticking toads and Miis in there is Nintendo being lazy. Wario doesn't need a fart move and Daisy can just wear her Mario Golf shorts if Nintendo can't be bothered animating her dress.

[nickmitch]

They should just turn NSMB in to a SMB2 sequel.

[Adrock]

If Nintendo makes another 2D Mario, they should make each world themed after a specific past Mario game. For example, World 1 has Super Mario Bros. graphics, World 2 has Super Mario Bros. 2 graphics, World 3 has Super Mario Land graphics. Of course, they should be cleaned up to not look like a pixelated mess but that shouldn't be a problem on Wii U.

[nickmitch]

The Super Mario land games do have a certain art style that would be nice to see revisited. The green on green might not be fun too look at on a big screen though. But I guess they'd be grey like on 3DS though.

[Ceric]

The Super Mario land games do have a certain art style that would be nice to see revisited. The green on green might not be fun too look at on a big screen though. But I guess they'd be grey like on 3DS though.

Real Men play with Green on Green and Non-humans play with Grey.  Your a Cyberman in disguise.  *point*

[Ian Sane]

my concern is with those stupid Miis. I hate those things, and in that picture they don't look like they've improved one iota since the Wii.

I don't care much for the Miis but I do think they fit the Wii Series really well.  I just don't like them "invading" other games.   In Wii Sports it makes sense because I want to play as myself and it's kind of cool to have that personalization.  In Mario games I want to be Mario.  That's the whole damn point.  Escapism is an important part of videogames.  On one hand, you don't HAVE to play as them.  But on the other Nintendo shouldn't want them in story focused games to begin with.  They should care enough about the setting that generic template characters can't be easily thrown in.  The NSMB screenshot with the Miis looks like it's just a product.  Yeah, the story is just "Bowser kidnapped the Princess" but is SHOULDN'T be that simple.  Miis in Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi wouldn't work.  It only works in regular Mario because Nintendo half-asses the story.  They shouldn't be doing THAT in the firstplace.

The first two Pilotwings had an original cast of characters.  Using Miis as the main characters in Pilotwings Resport came across as lazy.  So instead of making new characters we just slot the Miis in there?  It's a licence to slack off.  **** that.

Laziness and cutting corners makes it all look like product.  Nintendo games aren't special to the player if they feel like product.

[Ymeegod]

As for the Square/Enix new engine--that's for next generation and it's running on something like 4 580GTX cards (2 by 4 = 8GB of video ram).  Right now it's just a tech demo but it could be a heads up for next generation from either MS or Sony.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't have a problem with Miis in theory, I just hate they way they are implemented. When creating a Mii your customizing options are extremely limited, so you end up with a cartoonish character with an oversized head which if you're lucky might vaguely resemble you or the person you are trying to create, and your apparel options are basically just the color of your outfit. So its really restrictive.

Nintendo should do a massive overhaul of Miis in Wii U. I'm talking about customization options on par with creating a wrestler in a WWE video game. That would be awesome. If you want to make a character who is 7'4" and 600 pounds like Andre the Giant you should have that option, or if you want to make a tiny Hornswoggle you should be able to do that too, as well as everything in between. You should have the option to make Miis which are extremely realistic and lifelike.

[nickmitch]

The problem with that is not being able to move your existing me to Wii U without drastically changing it. The best we'll probably get is a couple more options than you get on the 3DS.

[Chozo Ghost]

The problem with that is not being able to move your existing me to Wii U without drastically changing it. The best we'll probably get is a couple more options than you get on the 3DS.

There's no reason the Wii U couldn't also support version 1.0 Miis and allow people to import them over. Frankly, I don't know why anyone would want to if there were a far more advanced and realistic Mii 2.0 option available.

[Kytim89]

I like the idea of buying houses and apartments for your Miis as well. I also would like the option of being able to create Miis of music bands such as Godsmack and Disturbed and then use their music on an SD card in the Wii slot to create Mii rock concerts that I can then transfer to my 3DS and spotpass people who walk pass me on the street. Lastly, there could also be Mii concerts on the Umote screen that could carry around your house and enjoy.
 
Secondly, every Wii U should come pre-installed with a ROB avatatr that acts as your system's representative. One that tells you if there a any new messages or if yur online buddies are playing at the moment. Overall, this version of ROB would act as a muiddle for the players and their consoles.
 
Lastly, every Wii U should also be pre-installed with a Tom Nook  that charges 1,000,000(,000) bells for the Wii U. Since the amount of time spent playing games helps reduce the debt owed to Nook, the only to pay off your system is to play as much as possible. For example, one hudred bells equals an hour of gameplay or something. Something silly that Nintendo could include to give the console some style and personality.

[ThePerm]

i dont care about graphics. The biggest hits with me have been Cubivore and Minecraft gameplay wise.

[Ymeegod]

"Wii U is that third parties such as EA or Rockstar could put such games as the Mass Effect and GTA series on the Wii U and void the hassle of retailing games that are old"

?  They will still have to remake the game to play on the WII U so why would they limit themshelves to just the few that have an external storage device and broadband? 

Nintendo would never allow a 3rd party download service on it's system--for one Nintendo wouldn't be able to track any of the sales and 2nd nintendo's royalites come from the DISCs themshelves.  None of the big three have let any thrid party service on their sytems for that reason.