Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[broodwars]

I'd also like to see some indication that Nintendo was not happy with Dragon Quest IX's sales. They went on to publish Dragon Quest VI, and will soon release Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2, and have a Dragon Quest/Mario crossover in the works with Fortune Street. I don't think we'd see all of that if Nintendo were disappointed in DQIX sales.

I don't think we'd ever hear about Nintendo's dissatisfaction with DQ sales even if that were the case.  It's such a huge hit in Japan that they're probably prepared to lose billions of yen if they can establish any kind of foothold for the series in the West.  It would probably endear them so much to Square-Enix that they'd probably be the defacto home for DQ, and that's huge in Japan even if the West doesn't collectively give a damn about the franchise.

[Mop it up]

Nintendo of America expressed their dissatisfaction with the sales of Metroid Other M. Sure, it's a first-party IP, but a third-party developer made most of it. Also, I believe people think the reason that games like XenoBlade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower aren't being released here is because they won't make any profit due to low sales. If that were true, the same logic should apply to the Dragon Quest games, and Nintendo wouldn't continue releasing them if they were losing money.

[TJ Spyke]

I think the costs were lower for the DQ games because they just published and marketed the game. Square Enix paid for the development costs. Still, I have no doubt they made a profit on it and are happy with how well it did.

[broodwars]

Nintendo of America expressed their dissatisfaction with the sales of Metroid Other M. Sure, it's a first-party IP, but a third-party developer made most of it.

Metroid's also a franchise that's never been anywhere near as popular in Japan as it is in the West.  They probably don't care about bashing a game that doesn't speak to their "core audience" in Japan.  Notice how none of the dissatisfaction they had with the game was directed towards the Japanese developer in Team Ninja, nor the Japanese director Sakamoto, nor how most of the big changes were made to cater to Japanese audiences used to the stupidity of common anime writing.  Instead, they gave the impression "well, it looks like Western gamers don't like this series anymore either.  I guess we can stop pretending we care about it."

DQ, though, is a big deal in Japan.  It's in Nintendo's best interests to keep trying to pound the square peg that is that franchise into the round hole of the Western markets, if only to encourage the series to stay on Nintendo platforms in Japan.  I don't see the series ever becoming a big deal in at least NA because that series' design philosophy is not mass market material (even for an RPG) here, but that probably won't stop Nintendo from trying so long as Japan benefits.

[alegoicoe]

What Wii U needs in the west is Final Fantasy XIII X-2, now that would be bad ass, am all for DQ on wii u, but i think here in the west FF can have more impact on sales.

[broodwars]

What Wii U needs in the west is Final Fantasy XIII X-2, now that would be bad ass, am all for DQ on wii u, but i think here in the west FF can have more impact on sales.

No, XIII-2 doesn't look like it'll be very friendly to newcomers, and the game doesn't seem to very different from the original XIII (which is a very divisive game, though I liked it).  The game I think could make a nice splash on the Wii U is Versus XIII, assuming Square-Enix takes that multiplatform.  It looks much more contemporary than most FF games, it's fast and action-based, and it visually looks nice.  The downside is that by the time it comes out, the Wii U will probably be in its 2nd or 3rd year.

[Luigi Dude]

Metroid's also a franchise that's never been anywhere near as popular in Japan as it is in the West.  They probably don't care about bashing a game that doesn't speak to their "core audience" in Japan.  Notice how none of the dissatisfaction they had with the game was directed towards the Japanese developer in Team Ninja, nor the Japanese director Sakamoto, nor how most of the big changes were made to cater to Japanese audiences used to the stupidity of common anime writing.  Instead, they gave the impression "well, it looks like Western gamers don't like this series anymore either.  I guess we can stop pretending we care about it."

The only thing Nintendo said about Other M was Reggie mentioned that he was disappointed the game didn't sell 1 million copies like he hoped it would.  He then went on to say it's on track to sell 500,000 copies which will make the sales decent in the end.

[Chozo Ghost]

Other M was a mediocre game and certainly deserves the mediocre sales performance it has received. The only bad thing is Nintendo may misinterpret that as meaning the franchise isn't very popular and might put the franchise on hiatus for another 5-10 years just like how they did from 1994 until whenever the first GBA Metroid was made. I'm afraid the whole series is going to end up punished just because of Other M.

[alegoicoe]

No, XIII-2 doesn't look like it'll be very friendly to newcomers, and the game doesn't seem to very different from the original XIII (which is a very divisive game, though I liked it).  The game I think could make a nice splash on the Wii U is Versus XIII, assuming Square-Enix takes that multiplatform.  It looks much more contemporary than most FF games, it's fast and action-based, and it visually looks nice.  The downside is that by the time it comes out, the Wii U will probably be in its 2nd or 3rd year.


Ok, agreed, but some type of final fantasy.

Sorry, i though i had the quotations marks.

[Luigi Dude]

Other M was a mediocre game and certainly deserves the mediocre sales performance it has received. The only bad thing is Nintendo may misinterpret that as meaning the franchise isn't very popular and might put the franchise on hiatus for another 5-10 years just like how they did from 1994 until whenever the first GBA Metroid was made. I'm afraid the whole series is going to end up punished just because of Other M.

Once again, Zero Mission did about the same as Other M, and yet we still got Metroid's after Zero Mission.  Plus everyone has to remember Nintendo has divided the Metroid franchise into two different series.  The normal Metroid series, which is run by Sakamoto, and the Metroid Prime series which is run by Kensuke Tanabe.

The last Metroid Prime game was a million seller and so that series is still quite popular.  So even if Other M hurt Sakamoto's chances at making more normal Metroids for a decade, Tanabe can still get another Prime game made if he wants to.  Of course considering Sakamoto's a high ranking producer at Nintendo who's in charge of an important team that's been very successful in the last gen, if he wants to make a new Metroid game, he has the power to get one made.

[Adrock]

I sure as hell hope they don't make another Prime game. The series has run it's course. Samus rendered all Phazon inert by destroying Metroid Prime/Dark Samus and rendered and blowing up ANOTHER planet.

I hope Retro Studios makes another Metroid game. I just want them to move on from the Prime series. Do something different with the plot and gameplay. I'd love for them to put it in 3rd person and show Sakamoto how much better they are at it.

And I'd still love to see WayForward tackle a 2D Metroid.

[Chozo Ghost]

I hope one thing that is learned from Other M is that altering the franchise and trying to make it more appealing to the Japanese market is a bad idea. It would be awesome if the franchise could become as big of a hit over there as it is here, but that needs to happen without it being changed in a drastic way. All Other M accomplished was to piss off western fans, and I don't think it even made a dent in improving its popularity in Japan.

[Adrock]

It's the most popular Metroid game in Japan... by being the least Metroid-like entry of the series.

To be fair, besides the Where's Waldo sections, the gameplay in Other M is pretty good. The controls were needlessly annoying due to Sakamoto's insistence that the nunchuck not be used and the story and character development was canon raping and awful. While I liked the gameplay, I still think Retro Studios can do better. I just hope that Nintendo expands them so they can work on Metroid and something else simultaneously. Maybe then they can release titles more frequently than once every 16 years. Can't rush quality, but you can hire more talent.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, maybe Other M could serve as a gateway drug if you will to the Japanese which will get them hooked on the franchise and hopefully get them to move into other games in the series. But with that said, I seriously hope there is never a sequel to Other M nor any other Metroid game like it ever again.

The sad thing is I really believe Sakamoto was actually trying to replicate the Super Metroid formula, but he failed miserably. I doubt he has what it takes to pull it off, so I won't expect too much out of him in regards to any other Metroid games he may make. I believe Gunpei Yokoi was the real genius that made the original Metroids so great, but sadly he is no longer with us.

[Oblivion]

Other M 2: The OTHER M.

[Luigi Dude]

The sad thing is I really believe Sakamoto was actually trying to replicate the Super Metroid formula, but he failed miserably. I doubt he has what it takes to pull it off, so I won't expect too much out of him in regards to any other Metroid games he may make. I believe Gunpei Yokoi was the real genius that made the original Metroids so great, but sadly he is no longer with us.

No he wasn't.  Gunpei Yokoi wasn't involved with Super Metroid at all since he was busy working on the Virtual Boy at the time.  Sakamoto was the actual director of Super Metroid and like always, the director is the most important person who overlooks every aspect of the game and is responsible for how the final product comes together.  Seriously, it's one thing to hate on Sakamoto for what he's recently done, but you can at least give credit for things in the past he actually did.

[ThePerm]

lol maybe Sakamoto is anti-western, he didn't use the nunchuck...it was retro's idea in the first place after all.

[Chozo Ghost]

lol maybe Sakamoto is anti-western, he didn't use the nunchuck...it was retro's idea in the first place after all.

But weren't Nunchucks invented in Japan? It makes no sense why he wouldn't want to use them if he wanted to make the game more appealing to the Japanese.

[ThePerm]

no real nunchucks, im pretty sure retro didnt call them nunchuks that was probably miyamoto spin, Miyamoto is sensible. He came up with the visors in the prime series.

[sintrom]

My main issue with the Wii U 3rd party support is that we got a demo of 3rd party games that are already going to be on current generation consoles earlier.  I have a 360 and a PS3.
 i remember back in 05 that nintendo announced the wii at e3 and the controller at TGS, so who know maybe nintendo still has something up their sleeves, still am happy with what i saw. the name does stunts a bit, dejavu i guess.

[Mop it up]

Baby steps. We can't expect Nintendo to go from almost no third-party support to exactly equal support as the competing systems, that just isn't going to happen. Ports of third-party games released earlier on other systems and with no sacrifices is a lot more that we got with the Wii, plus it isn't like third-party games released after the Wii U launches will be late. Or at least, I hope they won't be... but the point is, things are sounding better than the Wii.

[BlackNMild2k1]

ALL OR NOTHING!!!

Right guys....?

::1 year later::

I don't know why the 3rd parties are releasing anything for Nintendo system.
They could atleast port some of the games from the other systems....

[sintrom]

I would probably prefer something a little more SSB like.  Mario in SSB Brawl looks great AND he still looks like Mario.  It isn't like they made him all "edgy" or anything like that.  Since the Gamecube, Nintendo's visual approach to Mario has been very lazy, like they just do it "good enough" and no more.  But I honestly didn't notice the difference.
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[Kytim89]

Could Nintendo attract more third party titles by allowing third party to have a bigger profit stake on their console then the PS360? What I am saying is that suppose both Sony and Microsoft require that third parties are required to give Sony and Microsoft twenty or thirty percent of the profits of their games for developing on their console. Now what if Nintendo offered to allow them to develope for the Wii U with the exception that Nintendo will require less profit stake than its competitors. This would appear to make no sense at first glance, however, Nintendo could always make up the difference with both hardware and software sales. It would appear to me that if their games were more successful on a Nintendo console because they made more profit from those sales then it might be a big enough incentive to devlope more titles for Nintendo's console.
 
Keep in mind that Microsoft supposedly treats third party developers like ****, and they are more dependant on them for support due to their lacking first party roster. So, Microsoft may not be able to afford to lower profit stakes in third party game, which leaves Nintendo open to snag deals.

[Ceric]

Could Nintendo attract more third party titles by allowing third party to have a bigger profit stake on their console then the PS360? What I am saying is that suppose both Sony and Microsoft require that third parties are required to give Sony and Microsoft twenty or thirty percent of the profits of their games for developing on their console. Now what if Nintendo offered to allow them to develope for the Wii U with the exception that Nintendo will require less profit stake than its competitors. This would appear to make no sense at first glance, however, Nintendo could always make up the difference with both hardware and software sales. It would appear to me that if their games were more successful on a Nintendo console because they made more profit from those sales then it might be a big enough incentive to devlope more titles for Nintendo's console.
 
Keep in mind that Microsoft supposedly treats third party developers like ****, and they are more dependant on them for support due to their lacking first party roster. So, Microsoft may not be able to afford to lower profit stakes in third party game, which leaves Nintendo open to snag deals.

I be inclined to do it costs X to be on our system.  Where X is a fixed amount.

So lets say that a Physical game Nintendo asks $1 million and each game is sold for a take home of $30, retailers get $20-$30,  so the cost be covered in ~33,334 copies being sold.  That really isn't too many to be sold.  Nintendo also chargest $1 per copy + Media cost to cover Printing, marketing, and distribution style costs.

The number probably be higher but you get the concept.  Once the developer past the threshold the game maker is paying Nintendo possibly less than 1% per game made.