Topic: Personable Pawns: A Defense of Permadeath

[pokepal148]

I highly doubt the original intent of permadeath was "then the suckers will have to restart the chapter from the beginning every time!  HA HA HA!"  The idea was that characters will die and it will be part of the experience, to add emotional weight.  You're supposed to lose characters.  But these things don't always go the way the devs want.  Gamers can be very dedicated completists and will restart things to get a perfect run.  So casual mode is really just accomodating that type of player.  If you insist on not losing anybody, then play with this mode and save yourself a lot of hassle.

Though I think permadeath is a better feature in a game of relatively short length, where you would be encouraged to play multiple times.  Fire Emblem is too long to really make the concept enjoyable to the player.

At the very least they did not get rid of it.  Options are good.  Nintendo could just as easily removed permadeath for EVERYONE.  This is the company that will force waggle and Blue Shells and tripping in SSB down our throats and they didn't do that here.

case and point.

[Mop it up]

I think that people will be more willing to play the normal mode after they learn how the game works, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I know for me, the idea of harsh punishments when I'm trying to figure out a game is a real detractor. The easy mode makes me interested in a Fire Emblem game for once, even though I already have the one given to 3DS Ambassadors, and I'll probably actually play that game after I wet my feet with Fire Emblem Awakening.

That said, I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way to play any game. Games should have a variety of options to customise the play experience to suit one's liking, and more games these days should follow suit and offer more options.

[oksoda]

I'll be interested to see what all you non-permadeathers thinks about it after you play the game. To me, it's like playing an entire Mario game with the golden invincibility leaf; you get through the levels but without any challenge.

[broodwars]

I'll be interested to see what all you non-permadeathers thinks about it after you play the game. To me, it's like playing an entire Mario game with the golden invincibility leaf; you get through the levels but without any challenge.

That is a poor analogy. If it were like playing one of the New Super Mario Bros. games with the golden invincibility leaf, I'd be playing a Fire Emblem game where none of my characters could even get hurt and victory was assured. You can still fail a mission in Fire Emblem Awakening with Permadeath turned off (especially if one of your Lords dies), and I could do without the snide, demeaning analogies for valuing my time more than you value yours, thanks.

I've said as much on Twitter, but if your game depends on high difficulty to be "good", it probably wasn't that good to begin with.  And I don't think Fire Emblem does depend on high difficulty to be "good", so folks can just get used to Fire Emblem for once being judged on something other than how punishing its perma-death system can be.

[oksoda]

Ha ha, I'm not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely curious. I think it really changes the experience, so I want to hear about what you think.

[broodwars]

Ha ha, I'm not trying to be snide, I'm genuinely curious. I think it really changes the experience, so I want to hear about what you think.

Well, if you're waiting on my post-play opinion, you'll be waiting a while. I don't have any plans to buy the game in the near-future, largely due to too many games in my backlog (including 80 hr-long Ni No Kuni) and some more-promising games releasing soon (Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Rayman Legends, etc.). I'll let you know when I finally get around to the game, though.

[oksoda]

What a tease! But really, anyone who plays on casual, I want to know what that's like. Did you still find the game challenging? Did you ever fail a mission?

[Shaymin]

The thing with no permadeath is it gives you a lot more leeway to take chances and make mistakes. So you'll end up with a deeper knowledge of the game because you know what the consequences of various actions are.


And in before Corboran: Permadeath = The Newsroom. No permadeath = Community.

[NWR_insanolord]

There's a right way and a wrong way to play each mode. Playing casual but still doing your best not to lose anyone is good, sacrificing people left and right when it's tactically advantageous because death has no consequence is not. Likewise, actually letting people die and moving on is good, while restarting every time you lose one is pointless.

[Fjurbanski]

The thing with no permadeath is it gives you a lot more leeway to take chances and make mistakes. So you'll end up with a deeper knowledge of the game because you know what the consequences of various actions are.

Wouldn't it actually be the exact opposite of that? If you have more leeway and can make more mistakes... wouldn't you just continue to make those mistakes and come away with a much shallower knowledge of the game?

[pokepal148]

again experience points null that point

[Mop it up]

I'll be interested to see what all you non-permadeathers thinks about it after you play the game. To me, it's like playing an entire Mario game with the golden invincibility leaf; you get through the levels but without any challenge.

That is a poor analogy.

I agree, comparing it to Mario's golden leaf is quite ridiculous. This'll probably sound strange around these parts, but I don't play games for challenge, so I'll take my easy mode, thank you very much.

[NWR_Neal]

As someone play on Casual and on Chapter 9, spending 6 hours with the game, I have suffered no downgrade in the experience. All it does it alleviate the frustration of restarting the game when some dude gets random-number goosed at the end of a half-hour battle. I did fail one mission by having one of my Lords die. All in all, it feels like Fire Emblem.

[Fjurbanski]

So this is the first Fire Emblem I've ever played, I'm 9 hrs and 30 minutes in, chp 11 (playing on hard/classic), and unless there is a significant spike in difficulty later on, permadeath has basically become nothing.


Nobody is dying at all any more. The relationship system, as much as I love it, kind of makes the game easy once you get a few characters to S rank. Almost every enemy has less than 50% chance to hit any of my characters, my characters can hit them twice (or even 4 times if their partner hits them as well), and their critical hit percentage is almost always above 30%. So, I've only had to restart for the first few chapters.


However, this is only because I did restart any time I lost someone. So while I don't agree that permadeath is pointless all around like some people here, I will say that, unless you have the will to continue after someone dies, it will become pointless very quickly. If you are willing to just let your characters die and move on (which I'm going to do next playthroug), it will most likely be a more meaningful experience emotionally. But by keeping all your characters around and getting them to S rank, they become all but completely broken and overpowered, making the game easy anyway. I'm still loving it, though. The relationship system is so much fun to mess around with. And leveling and changing classes and the sheer amount of characters with real personality. It's great all around. And with so many options that I won't even see on one playthrough, who knows how long this game will keep me entertained.


But my advice is, to anyone who hasn't played the game and thinks they might want to try it with permadeath on. If you have the guts to just let characters die and move on, do it. It does have a chance of being emotionally engaging. But if you have to keep everyone alive, don't bother. Unless you're playing on insane difficulty, playing on classic won't affect the difficulty after chp 5 or 6 (around there).