Topic: 3DS XL "Not big enough..."

[oohhboy]

...for a second circle pad. This got a good laugh out of me. I wasn't even sure whether or not to stick this bit of news in the funhaus.

Later this month the 3DS XL handheld launches in Europe. When you were designing the XL were you tempted to put in a second analogue stick as standard?


When we looked at the design of the 3DS XL we had to look at various factors, one was battery life, one was the overall size of the unit, and we had to make some trade-offs. The choice, if we were going to include the second analogue stick, was to reduce the size of the batters or make the unit much bigger.

What we wanted to do was have a bigger screen in comparison with the overall size of the system, so had various discussions and had to make trade-offs and this is the outcome.Attaching a second analogue stick is possible but it would have made the system even bigger and, though it perhaps puts a burden on people that really want that second stick, it’s a call we had to make and these people will have to live with it.
This [the lack of a second stick] isn’t my main focus when I look at the 3DS XL, it’s one point we had to cover, but for me personally I’m quite happy with the product we’re able to offer.


Given the size of that thing, most people assumed you are throwing mobility out the window, why not go the whole hog? The thing is big enough to kill a man as it is, CPPXL would allow you to take on a bear.

Source.

[Chozo Ghost]

There is no excuse because one side of the handheld is apparently able to accommodate a circle pad with no problem, and why can't there be symmetry between both sides? Sony has been doing that for 15+ years with the dualshock controller. Nintendo is doing this themselves with the Wii U tablet controller. All the 3DS has to do is mimic the layout of the U-tablet and everything would work out fine. If one side can fit a circle pad then so too should the other side be able to.

[Ceric]

You guys do realize that the "dead space" probably has battery right under it.  Another analog would have take that space making them have a smaller area for a battery or to make the whole unit thicker.  Battery Life is one of the top complaints way over not having a second analog stick.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't know what's under that "dead space" or not. The only thing I do know is that somehow the Vita is able to have dual analog. So why is it that Sony is able to do what Nintendon't?

[Ceric]

I don't know what's under that "dead space" or not. The only thing I do know is that somehow the Vita is able to have dual analog. So why is it that Sony is able to do what Nintendon't?

My computer can have multiple dual analog stick, A 102+ button controller, a 5 button+ 2D Spatial control device,etc.  Why doesn't the 3DS?

Why doesn't my 3DS have Backtouch?  MultiTouch? Rumble Feedback? A Second set of Triggers?

I honestly do not understand why everyone is hung up on that second analog stick.
Also last I checked an Equivalent Vita was $295.98 (Vita + 4gb Memory Card (Smallest available))

[Hey Einstein!]

Please internet... let it lie!

[Oblivion]

I don't know what's under that "dead space" or not. The only thing I do know is that somehow the Vita is able to have dual analog. So why is it that Sony is able to do what Nintendon't?

They are two totally different systems, with two totally different analog sticks, and you could fit three Vita stciks on one 3DS stick.

[lolmonade]

I'm falling in line with Ceric on this one.  I can appreciate that more control options are rarely a BAD thing, but as someone who uses the 3DS as a secondary gaming option, I don't see myself playing many games that would benefit from dual Analog on it, and anything that can keep the cost of the system down to reasonable while increasing size and (hopefully) battery life is a great positive to me.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't know what's under that "dead space" or not. The only thing I do know is that somehow the Vita is able to have dual analog. So why is it that Sony is able to do what Nintendon't?

They are two totally different systems, with two totally different analog sticks, and you could fit three Vita stciks on one 3DS stick.

But the beauty of a revision is that they had the opportunity to make those circle pads smaller, or even scrap them entirely in favor of traditional sticks like the Vita uses. I do understand the 3DS is a clamshell and needs to close up and that's probably Nintendo's reasoning in going with the flat circle pads in the first place, but there are ways they could have gotten traditional sticks to work. For example, there could be cavities on the top half so when it closes down the sticks would go into those cavities and that way it wouldn't interfere with the clamshell design. Another thing they could have done is have the sticks fold out or something. So you see there are solutions.

[Oblivion]

No thanks. I love the 3DS analog sticks and I hate the Vita ones. There doesn't need to be a "solution" to something that works.

[broodwars]

and you could fit three Vita stciks on one 3DS stick.

No, you couldn't (the 3DS Circle Pad is about the same size as the Vita's analog sticks, if not a little smaller), and the 3DS's directional control device is not an analog sick.

I'm falling in line with Ceric on this one.  I can appreciate that more control options are rarely a BAD thing, but as someone who uses the 3DS as a secondary gaming option, I don't see myself playing many games that would benefit from dual Analog on it, and anything that can keep the cost of the system down to reasonable while increasing size and (hopefully) battery life is a great positive to me.

Right now, I own 4 3DS games.  Half of those are ones that would/do benefit immensely from a second Circle Pad: Resident Evil Revelations and Kid Icarus Uprising.  I have a Circle Pad Pro to play Revelations, and I couldn't imagine playing the game any other way.  In fact, I'd say the Circle Pad Pro also solves another huge issue with the 3DS, and that's that it's a very uncomfortable system to hold with its tiny, box-y design for any game that actually uses the L and R triggers.

And Kid Icarus Uprising's controls are a total mess by default, to the point of being nearly unplayable without using the stand.  And considering I play my handheld games lying down in bed, it's not often practical to use the stand.  The game's control options would have been nearly completely solved if Nintendo had gotten over their arrogance and supported the Circle Pad Pro for dual analog control.  And don't tell me that never occurred to them, because there's a control option in the game to play with the face buttons taking the place of the touch pad that's similar (though not quite) to dual analog control.

I don't buy Nintendo's B.S. here.  If they wanted to, they could have designed the 3DS to support a second circle pad without changing the size of the XL.  I doubt they did much more with the XL than resize the overall shell & screens and slapped a bigger battery in.  But adding a second circle pad would have meant admitting that they weren't the All Knowing Gods of Gaming, that they'd gotten the design wrong with the original 3DS.

If Nintendo didn't want to put a second Circle Pad into the 3DS XL, fine.  I don't like it and I think that (as usual these days) they're sacrificing playability for their bottom line and their modern arrogance when it comes to controls, but "fine".  I have a Circle Pad Pro, and it works rather nicely for my needs.  But they should just come out and say it rather than hide behind weak excuses.  I could at least respect their decision to publicly pick a position and take a stand on it, rather than all this waffling.

[tendoboy1984]

The 3DS XL could easily accommodate a second circle pad. It would encourage more developers to make dual-analog games (the same games they've been making for PlayStation and Xbox for over 10 years). And porting games between the 3DS and Vita would be much simpler.

Adding a second circle pad wouldn't fragment the market, because most games are made with customizeable controls. If your 3DS doesn't have a second circle pad, then the game would automatically default to a different set of controls. The second circle pad just adds extra options for developers and gamers. And there's also the fact that a majority of games use dual analog controls, so having a second circle pad would make porting much easier.

As for the second set of L and R buttons, the 3DS doesn't need them. The touch screen can be used for any extra  controls a game might need. This is also the reason why the Vita has 2 touch pads (front and back).


Nintendo dropped the ball once again. Oh well, maybe next time they'll finally step out of their bubble and catch up to the rest of the industry.

[TJ Spyke]

Adding a second circle pad wouldn't fragment the market, because most games are made with customizeable controls. If your 3DS doesn't have a second circle pad, then the game would automatically default to a different set of controls. The second circle pad just adds extra options for developers and gamers. And there's also the fact that a majority of games use dual analog controls, so having a second circle pad would make porting much easier.

It would fragment the market, and no developer would make a game that required the second Circle Pad since it would screw the 10+ million existing 3DS owners. And they would have to waste time and money creating two different control schemes, something I bet most would not do.

Let's look at the fact that the PlayStation Vita is bombing while 3DS is breaking records set by the DS, I don't think 3DS needs to be worried about getting Vita ports. If anything, Sony needs to be worried about getting 3DS ports. Developers have the option to use the Circle Pad Pro but choose not to, so Nintendo seems to have made the right decision.

[tendoboy1984]

Adding a second circle pad wouldn't fragment the market, because most games are made with customizeable controls. If your 3DS doesn't have a second circle pad, then the game would automatically default to a different set of controls. The second circle pad just adds extra options for developers and gamers. And there's also the fact that a majority of games use dual analog controls, so having a second circle pad would make porting much easier.

It would fragment the market, and no developer would make a game that required the second Circle Pad since it would screw the 10+ million existing 3DS owners. And they would have to waste time and money creating two different control schemes, something I bet most would not do.

Let's look at the fact that the PlayStation Vita is bombing while 3DS is breaking records set by the DS, I don't think 3DS needs to be worried about getting Vita ports. If anything, Sony needs to be worried about getting 3DS ports. Developers have the option to use the Circle Pad Pro but choose not to, so Nintendo seems to have made the right decision.

If dual analog controls aren't that important, then explain why Nintendo needed to create the Classic Controller Pro in hopes of getting more 3rd-party support for the Wii.


Miyamoto stated that the 3DS doesn't need a second circle pad because the touch screen is a good substitute for camera control, so with that reasoning the Wii U controller wouldn't need a second analog stick either.


But Nintendo had to put a second analog stick in the Wii U controller so third-party developers would have an easier time porting their games over.


Also, there's the fact that a majority of games use dual-analog controls, and it's the standard control scheme for a majority of games.


Nintendo has no excuses. They should have given the 3DS a second circle pad from the beginning.

[TJ Spyke]

The Classic Controller was for money, plain and simple. They also did not want to keep manufacturing the GameCube controller since that did everything the Classic Controller does. It was not about third party support. It was even aimed at Virtual Console games.

And consoles are different than handhelds, especially since with the handhelds it is a lot easier to use the touchscreen.

And no, a majority of 3DS games don't use it (which is what the discussion is about). In fact, no game requires it. IF any 3DS games required the Circle Pad Pro, there is a strong chance Nintendo would have put it in the 3DS XL. The 3DS has yet to have any problems because of a lack of two analog sticks and developers seem happy with the system.

[tendoboy1984]

The Classic Controller was for money, plain and simple. They also did not want to keep manufacturing the GameCube controller since that did everything the Classic Controller does. It was not about third party support. It was even aimed at Virtual Console games.

And consoles are different than handhelds, especially since with the handhelds it is a lot easier to use the touchscreen.

And no, a majority of 3DS games don't use it (which is what the discussion is about). In fact, no game requires it. IF any 3DS games required the Circle Pad Pro, there is a strong chance Nintendo would have put it in the 3DS XL. The 3DS has yet to have any problems because of a lack of two analog sticks and developers seem happy with the system.

But dual analog is the standard for game controllers. That's why people were begging Sony to put a second analog nub in the PSP. You think developers would be happy if console controllers went back to N64-style single stick designs with a touchscreen slapped on? The second stick is needed for camera control (third-person and first-person viewpoints).


A touchscreen isn't a good substitute because it would be too difficult to keep your hand steady while holding the controller in one hand, not to mention very uncomfortable (Kid Icarus Uprising says hello). That's why most game controllers haven't ditched the dual analog design, because it's very convenient for camera control. The Wii Remote was a good alternative, but Microsoft and Sony don't see it as a good replacement for their tried and true designs.


Also, the Classic Controller has a second stick to accommodate third-party developers that might want to include dual-analog controls in their games. Many Wii games give you the choice of pointer controls or analog controls, so it's not as difficult as you think to implement an optional control scheme. All of the Virtual Console games used the D-pad, and the N64 games only use one analog stick.


The PS Vita is the perfect example of giving developers everything they need to make the games they want. It has a capacitive touchscreen for simple smartphone ports, dual analog sticks for console-style games and shooters, and even a rear touchpad for additional controls. Sony finally made a handheld that does everything, yet the sales are terrible. Developers have a huge amount of options for making Vita games, yet they aren't doing much with the hardware they are given, and as a result, consumers are ignoring the system.


People (developers and consumers) bugged Sony to put a second stick in the PSP, they wanted a touchscreen for more simplistic games, they wanted more downloadable options. Sony does all of this with the Vita, yet no one seems to care. Where did Sony go wrong?

[Ymeegod]

"It would fragment the market, and no developer would make a game that required the second Circle Pad since it would screw the 10+ million existing 3DS owners"

They wouldn't?  Then expain to me why you see all these "kinect" only titles then?  Also adding an second analog stick would also solve the issues with lefthanded people.  Ever draw with your offhand?  That's what lefties have to do but if they had the option of switching left to right analog.

Bottom line, they should have included it, and they should also include an update to their firmware for current 3ds/CCp owners the option of analog swapping.

[Ceric]

They wouldn't?  Then expain to me why you see all these "kinect" only titles then? ...

Money-Hats.

Anyway are you seriously equating an Analog Stick with Kinect?  Using that comparison the 3DS has a second stick in the touch pad which is a whole lot closer to another analog stick then the Kinect will ever be.
To make a game that really takes advantage of Kinect you have to ditch the controller or it just because I glorified mic.

[nickmitch]

"It would fragment the market, and no developer would make a game that required the second Circle Pad since it would screw the 10+ million existing 3DS owners"

They wouldn't?  Then expain to me why you see all these "kinect" only titles then?  Also adding an second analog stick would also solve the issues with lefthanded people.  Ever draw with your offhand?  That's what lefties have to do but if they had the option of switching left to right analog.

MS probably paid for them, so that there would be ample support for the thing. (Edit: beaten)

I feel like you guys think that adding the second circle pad is about as easy as gluing one on it directly. There has to be **** under it. In the space right now is a battery. Either Nintendo would have to take out the battery or make the whole thing bigger. It's pretty straight forward.

The only reasonable argument I've read here is that if Nintendo is already making a handheld that damn big, they might as well go all out and make it bigger since most portability is lost. Like oohhboy said.

[tendoboy1984]

Nintendo wouldn't have had any of these problems if they'd just built the 3DS with a second analog stick in the first place.


So Nintendo has no excuses. The Wii U makes them look like complete hypocrites, since they added a second analog stick to that even though it has a touch screen. This is the exact opposite of Miyamoto's reasoning with the 3DS design.


Nintendo added 2 analog sticks to the Wii U to make porting Xbox and PlayStation games easier. This was done to ensure they had more 3rd-party support. Abd they should have done the same thing with the 3DS.

[DonnyKD]

I love how people are thinking that because Sony has Dual Analog and the Wii U does, then that somehow means the 3DS XL can.

1) Can you design a 3DS XL and fit a second Circle Pad on it? And no, photoshopping doesn't count.

2) Compare the 3DS and Wii U gamepad. Do they look ANYTHING alike?

3) Why the hell would they waste money on putting two Circle Pads on the 3DS if there's already an add-on that does that? With more battery life? AND EXTRA BUTTONS?!

4) What games use two analog? Oh, OK, Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter... oh, wait, those games work perfectly fine with the TOUCH SCREEN too. You people want a second Circle Pad for the sake of a second Circle Pad.

You guys aren't handheld designers, you're GAMERS.

[tendoboy1984]

I love how people are thinking that because Sony has Dual Analog and the Wii U does, then that somehow means the 3DS XL can.

1) Can you design a 3DS XL and fit a second Circle Pad on it? And no, photoshopping doesn't count.

2) Compare the 3DS and Wii U gamepad. Do they look ANYTHING alike?

3) Why the hell would they waste money on putting two Circle Pads on the 3DS if there's already an add-on that does that? With more battery life? AND EXTRA BUTTONS?!

4) What games use two analog? Oh, OK, Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter... oh, wait, those games work perfectly fine with the TOUCH SCREEN too. You people want a second Circle Pad for the sake of a second Circle Pad.

You guys aren't handheld designers, you're GAMERS.

Um all of those problems could have been solved if the 3DS had 2 analog sticks in the beginning.  There would have been more games that used 2 analog sticks because it would have been a standard feature.

[nickmitch]

Nintendo wouldn't have had any of these problems if they'd just built the 3DS with a second analog stick in the first place.

Well, they didn't. Get over it.

So Nintendo has no excuses. The Wii U makes them look like complete hypocrites, since they added a second analog stick to that even though it has a touch screen. This is the exact opposite of Miyamoto's reasoning with the 3DS design.


Nintendo added 2 analog sticks to the Wii U to make porting Xbox and PlayStation games easier. This was done to ensure they had more 3rd-party support. Abd they should have done the same thing with the 3DS.

The 3DS isn't supposed to be a PS360 port machine. And how does that make Nintendo hypocrites? The N64 had a joy stick and Nintendo released plenty of handhelds that didn't have one afterwards. Nintendo isn't making some grand anti-second analogue stick statement with the 3DS. The damn thing just didn't need one.

[broodwars]

4) What games use two analog? Oh, OK, Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter... oh, wait, those games work perfectly fine with the TOUCH SCREEN too.

No, they don't.  Kid Icarus has some of the worst controls in any game I've ever played.  Thankfully, the rest of the game makes up for how awful those controls are.  As for Resident Evil, the game just flat-out plays better and like a much more modern game with two Circle Pads.  As for Monster Hunter, those controls have never been good on any platform.

People shouldn't have to buy an accessory to make certain 3DS games playable, and it's almost like Nintendo goes out of their way not to support it anyway.  That's especially hilarious in the case of Luigi's Mansion, considering the big selling point of the original Luigi's Mansion was "hey, we have two analog sticks now! Look at what we can do with them!"  Considering that one of the main complaints about the DS' main competitor (and the original version of the 3DS) was the lack of a second analog nub, Nintendo should have added a second circle pad while they were busy making the XL brick-sized already.

As I've said before, I'd appreciate it if Nintendo would just cut the B.S. and just say that they have every intention of continuing to be as backwards as possible with game controls for as long as they can.  The spin just annoys me.

[DonnyKD]

"Um all of those problems could have been solved if the 3DS had 2 analog sticks in the beginning"

Implying that you know how the development went.

"Kid Icarus has some of the worst controls in any game I've ever played."

I don't know what Kid Icarus you're playing, but Kid Icarus Uprising didn't have bad controls. It has a learning curve, but I guess you only want games that can be tamed in a second.

"People shouldn't have to buy an accessory to make certain 3DS games playable"

Implying that they're unplayable.

"considering the big selling point of the original Luigi's Mansion was "hey, we have two analog sticks now! Look at what we can do with them!""

What kind of f***ed up Luigi's Mansion advertisement were YOU watching?

"Considering that one of the main complaints about the DS' main competitor (and the original version of the 3DS) was the lack of a second analog nub"

What "main complaints"? Again, where are you GETTING this stuff from?

"As I've said before, I'd appreciate it if Nintendo would just cut the B.S. and just say that they have every intention of continuing to be as backwards as possible with game controls for as long as they can."

Yes, they're so "backwards". They obviously didn't invent the D-Pad, the analog stick, the SNES designed controllers, motion controls, touch screen, and all that crap. They're behind because their handheld console doesn't have two pads installed on it! No, it's not that it doesn't HAVE two pads, it's because it's not on there from the start!

And by the way, putting two Circle Pads on the 3DS XL will once again alienate old ambassadors.